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Grace Centered Magazine Forum: LABOR and heavy LADEN imposed.

February 14 2011 at 8:34 PM
Ken Sublett  (Login Ken.Sublett)
from IP address

All of the rhetoric, singing, instrument playing and acting is imposing the BURDEN Jesus died to remove.

Said I "said someone was under the influence of Lucifer because they disagreed with me."

I think someone has a reading or bias problem.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Apr 1, 2011 1:38 PM

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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)

Re: Busted from GCM: not much grace!

February 14 2011, 9:39 PM 

Isn't GCM crawling with raving liberals? The site is very heavily moderated.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


February 14 2011, 10:19 PM 

I don't think that the owner of the forum pays any attention to the forum.

Most of those who moderate--especially the ones who take liberty to yank your post--and black ball you I would not call liberal. A liberal is a bible student who just doesn't believe it. I think we have denominational preachers who are the moderators and are violently opposed to about anything you post if you post Scripture in context.

It assuredly has no relationship to the Biblical and historic Church of Christ which survived the attack thinking that to be a christian one had to accept everyone. I noticed that a few people have been so attacked by multi-culturism that they are ready to tell people to go home if they don't want to be french.

Of course,if you don't let people infiltrate and divert you into THEIR religious culture you are victimized by lots of RACA words.

If you are blackballed you cannot even READ the magazine. So, I have done a bit of update on my review especially Ephesians 4 which outlaws all of the performing arts and artists and then described the church whose pattern is 'a school of Christ' say the Campbells and all of the Bible.

One of the articles I am not permitted to read is "Jesus Drank Wine." I will do a review on that blasphemy.

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(no login)

Re: Busted from GCM: not much grace!

February 15 2011, 3:43 PM 

Dr. Crump, why were you busted from GCM?

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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)

Re: Busted from GCM: not much grace!

February 15 2011, 10:10 PM 

Ken's original title of this thread was "Busted from GCM: Not Much Grace." He edited it to its present title. I responded before he changed it. Apparently Ken was "busted" from GCM. I've never posted there.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Does "grace" permit you to repudiate Jesus Christ?

February 15 2011, 11:23 AM 

The "inclusiveness" gets exclusive when you post the Biblical facts.

You said someone was under the control of Lucifer just because they disagreed with you. Personal attacks like that will just get you permanently banned. Last chance.

Of of course that is a lie.

GCMF promotes: "101 reasons why baptism does not save."

The method is to look up all of the "saved" words and use them to force the Bible and all early history to lie.

1 Pet. 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient,
............ when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
............ while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is,
............ eight souls were saved by water.

FAITH means NOT arguing with God! They were saved IN the Ark and saved BY the Water because THAT is how God planned to do it. If Noah had whinned, we would ALL be Cainites or Kenites who DID survive the flood.

Of course, they were saved by GOD but not WITHOUT faith, obedience, getting into the COFFIN (not a boat) covered with blood-red bitumen inside and out, and was high and dry while the OLD MAN OF SIN was drowned. Remember that Peter said SAVE YOURSELVES from this CROOKED GENERATION. That points to the perverted skolion new wineskinners.

They were saved BY the Water because the water DROWNED "sin" and lifted them OUT or ABOVE the waters which drown.

Baptism is like God, the Ark and the Water: it was given POWER by Faith which worked. God's power is always VESTED in something.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet,
............ moved with fear,
............ prepared an ark to the saving of his house;

............ by the which he condemned the world,
............ and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Baptism is "TYPE or a MODEL of FORM intended FOR IMITATION." It involves, God, faith, obedience, being placed IN the coffin, being saved BY water because THAT is how God planned it and since I AM NOT GOD I will not be caught "dead" calling Him a liar.

1 Pet. 3:21 The like figure (Antitupon or Antitype counterpart) whereunto
............ (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
............ but the answer of [Appeal FOR not PLEDGE] a good conscience toward God,)
............ by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

............ But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart that form (tupos a model for imitation) of doctrine
which was delivered you. Ro 6:17
............ ............ But now being
............ ............ made free from sin, and
............ ............ become servants to God, ye
............ ............ have your fruit unto holiness, and
............ ............ the end everlasting life. Ro 6:22

2 Thess 3:9 Not because we have not power,
............ but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

Christ The Spirit appeared to and let Paul hear His voice to equip him to be guided into all truth.
Paul was told to "be baptized and WASH AWAY THY SINS.
How did baptism wash away Paul's sins? It was the Christ-ordained way to "call upon the Name of the Lord." A person who trusts THEIR power to believe something and rejects baptism DOES NOT even want Christ to wash away their sins. That is why OBEDIENCE tampers with a false view of grace and, as I posted the WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST makes one a believeth-not or APISTOS which lowly says "I WILL NOT comply with the Jesus formula that Believeth + Baptism saves. If you deny that promise of Grace, Christ in Isaiah and Jesus in person says you WILL BE DAMNED. That does not call the ANTI-baptism posters under the influece of Lucifer: they are SELF-willed and will not even have Jesus order them about.

How does baptism saves. The Flood, Red Sea, and the pattern of Jesus Christ the PIONEER of our faith were types.

Tupos (g5179) too'-pos; from 5180; a die (as struck), i.e. (by impl.) a stamp or scar; by anal. a shape, i.e. a statue, (fig.) style or resemblance; spec. a sampler ("type"), i.e. a model (for imitation) or instance (for warning): - en- (ex-) ample, fashion, figure, form, manner, pattern, print.

When you OBEY that Form or Type, you do not trust YOUR own faith:

Anti (g473) an-tee'; a prim. particle; opposite, i.e. INSTEAD or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, SUBSTITUTION, correspondence, etc.

1. We are baptized by GRACE instead of having to build an Ark or drown
2. We are baptized by GRACE instead of having to cross the Red Sea or be destroyed by FAITH ONLY when God said "Quit whining, lift up your arm and MOVE into the jaws of death.
3. We are baptized by GRACE instead of having to be pinned on a stake and shed OUR blood.

When you have to EXPLAIN AWAY what the text MAKES CLEAR you may have exhausted God's Grace.

Maybe YOU can be SAVED without the REMISSION OF SINS (connected only to baptism) but I DON'T THINK you can go into the Most Holy Place wearing DIRTY CLOTHES. Paul says we are saved BY FAITH when we are BAPTIZED to be CLOTHED with Christ. Then we have A holy spirit translated into heaven WHEN we are added to the CHURCH which is AFTER we have been baptized.

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all,
............ and to the Spirits of just men made perfect, Heb 12:23

That is A holy spirit promised after baptism or A good conscience of 1 Peter 3:21.

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Fred Whaley
(no login)

Re: Does "grace" permit you to repudiate Jesus Christ?

February 16 2011, 2:11 PM 

Ken - This piece is decent but to be honest is a downer compared to other recent ones. Your second best recent message was the one I replied to where you quoted several paragraphs from Homer about worship and music. Fred is interested in reading all there is from Homer. However your best recent piece was another that I replied to about your Biblical message on and connecting Eve's Sexual Seduction, Instrumental Worship and Sacrificial Orgies. That one will be hard for you to top.

Fred Whaley

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


February 17 2011, 5:34 PM 

Thanks for the compliment but I think it is all blubber!

If you would name the DISTINCTIVES of The Church of Christ you would include.

1. There is ONE God the Father in heaven and Jesus of Nazareth whom God made to be both Lord and Christ. Therefore, all that we know about the Father has been Revealed by the Son and therefore the "fullness of Deity dwelled in Him bodily.

See Alexander Campbell: the Trinitarian System

But in the second place, I have an insuperable objection to the Arian and Calvinistic phraseology--

On the doctrine of the first relation existing between the Father and the Saviour of Men, because it confounds things human and divine, and gives new ideas to bible terms unthought of by the inspired writers.

The names Jesus, Christ, or Messiah, Only Begotten Son, Son of God, belong to the Founder of the christian religion, and to none else.

They express not a relation existing before the christian era, but relations which commenced at that time.

To understand the relation betwixt the Saviour and his Father,
which existed before time,
and that relation which began in time,
is impossible on [333] either of these theories.

There was no Jesus, no Messiah, no Christ, no Son of God, no Only Begotten, before the reign of Augustus Cesar.

The relation that was before the christian era, was not that of a son and a father, terms which always imply disparity; but it was that expressed by John in the sentence under consideration.

The relation was that of God, and the "WORD God." This phraseology unfolds a relation quite different from that of a father and a son--a relation perfectly intimate, equal, and glorious.

This naturally leads me to the first sentence of John. And here I must state a few postulata.

On the other hand: The Progressive Church of Christ subscribes to Tritheism which is polytheism.

By denying the ONE GOD the Father in heaven.
And Jesus of Nazareth whom God MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ, they deny this Divine Father-Human Lord and John identifies them as ANTI-Christ.
The chatter answering Jimmy's questions probably was too much for the modulators to tolearte since they are Nicean trinitarians.

2. Consistent with all historic scholarship, the assembly is A School of Christ first defined as The Church of Christ in the wilderness both inclusively and exclusively.

The "Progressive Church of Christ" appeals to the curse of the sacrificial system and the Levite Warrior Musicians making a loud noise during a not-commanded burnt offering to insist that God commanded instrumental praise and you must not disobey. This sees the assembly as a worship service which in the Hebrew is defined as "hard bondage."

See Edward Fudge prophesying the Death of a Distinctive. Of course, the only way the distinctive of NOT using "machines for doing hard work" when Jesus comes to give us REST so we can learn of Him cannot happen with the DEATH of those who have never fallen into this terminal folly.

Dwayne E. Dunning proposes taking an Axe to the position.

3. The Church of Christ is "distinct" that it has never changed from the historic fact that baptism was FOR the remission of sins and those who "believeth not" or "refused to comply" would be damned.

The Progressive Church of Christ denies the prophecy of Christ and the prophecy made more perfect by Jesus Christ that there are as recently demanded "101 reasons why baptism is not necessary to be saved."

The Grace Centered Magazine insists that to use the Apistos or believeth not word to mean people simply refuse to comply and are defined as treacherous is accusing those who differ as under the influence of Lucifer: not so, they are under the influence of their own rebellious nature. I have quoted the PATTERNISM defined by Christ in Isaiah: those who REFUSE to be washed will be DEVOURED: Interesting in that Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites in in Ezekiel 33 named performance preachers, singers and instrument players: that is the ONLY literal meaning of a hypocrite. And the performers DEVOUR the living of widows doing pretense rituals.

That means that the Progressive Church of Christ has no relation to the historic Church of Christ.

4. All historic scholarship and the Church of Christ does not IMPOSE in the services anything which has not been commanded and which does not contribute to the "school of the Bible for DISCIPLES of Christ."

Nothing can raise more wrath than quoting the bible in context. The progressive church by definition has moved beyond "the sacred page" and see visions and hear voices.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Norton posts: will not tolerate response.

February 27 2011, 4:35 PM 

Grace Centered Magazine says that there is nothing in the New Testament which says

"There is nothing in the NT saying that we must have authorization for everything done in the assemblly or in expessing praise to God. Those who preach that there is, are preaching from Reformation creeds instead of Scripture."

Norton Posted this along with the usual personal attacks therefore I conclude that GCM and its modulators or throttleators simply do NOT want people to spread hate by posting any rebuttal:

I posted and they DEposted while still lying about my posts and mocking all Bible quotes.

* Disciples have obeyed the Gospel and been baptized
* Only Disciples can be called Christians.
* Christians as disciplle will not accept any dogma imposed on them if Jesus Christ has not commanded it.

Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach [didaktikos] all nations,

ma^tht-eu ,
A. to be pupil, tini to one, Plu.2.832c.
II. trans., make a disciple of, INSTRUCT, panta ta ethn Ev.Matt.28.19, cf. Act.Ap.14.21:Pass., Ev.Matt.13.52.

baptizING them in the name [Jesus Christ] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


TeachING them to observe all things WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world (As Spirit Jesus). Amen. Mt 28:20

You INSTRUCT disciples or students of Christ and do not impose the laded burden of "ceremonialism."

Didasko to teach, instruct, teach riding, teach shooting, taught of a father, Understood by all disciples that in the pagan sense:

ENTELLO. Enjoin, Commmand, command by WORD OF MOUTH, invest with legal powers, AUTHORIZED to act.

A Disciple as baptized is a Christian: Christians undersand WHO has the authority which is AFTER THE LAW OF MOSES and is therefore not legalism.

Discipulus A learner, scholar, pubil, disciple, a learner in an art or trade, an APPRENTICE, a disciple of Christ.

A disciple is not a WORSHIPER in the "ceremonial legalism sense" which is IMPOSING the Law of David who did not teach the Law of Moses.

A Disciple does nothing as defined by the world as WORSHIP. Worship implies that YOU have something of value to God which appeases Him, pleasures Him or makes sure that He will not turn on you. A Disciple understands that the Direction-of-information-flow is FROM Christ TO His disciples.

Rom. 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! unsearchable are his judgments,
......and his ways past finding out!
Rom. 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord?
......or who hath been his counseller?
Rom. 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom. 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

There is not GRACE and no FURTHER REVELATION which would allow people to lie, cheat and steal church houses of widows and cut you off at the knees if you resist.

Christ in Isaiah 55 gave the FREE water of the Word because HIS thoughts are not OUR THOUGHTS: therefore theree is NO GRACE to people who claim that they can "hear beyond the sacred page" or just don't care what Scripture teaches.

Fact is, I get more readers and less mockers of the posted word at my only place to respond to their lies about my posts.

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David Gustafson
(Login DavidGustafson)

167 ways

March 2 2011, 2:58 PM 

There are 167 ways to get saved.

What the Bible says about Salvation
There are 167 ways to get saved.

Say the right things.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified. -- Matthew 12:37
Do the right things. (Be a do-gooder.)
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life. -- John 5:29
I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. -- Jeremiah 17:10
For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. -- 2 Corinthians 5:10
Believe the right things.
A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. -- Romans 3:28
Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. -- Romans 5:1
A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. -- Galatians 2:16
For by grace are ye saved through faith. -- Ephesians 2:8
Do and believe the right things.
Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- James 2:17
Work your way to heaven.
For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. -- Matthew 16.27
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? -- James 2:14, 17, 20, 24, 26
I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23
Burn your work.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. -- 1 Corinthians 3:15
Be hungry now and never get full.
Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. ... Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. -- Luke 6:21, 24
Hunger and thirst after righteousness.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. -- Matthew 5:6
Do what is lawful and right.
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. -- Ezekiel 18:27
Obey the law of the wise.
The law of the wise is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death. -- Proverbs 13:14
Do God's will
He that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. -- 1 John 2:17
Do the will of Jesus' father.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. -- Matthew 7:21
Be a doer of the law.
Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13
Call on the name of the Lord.
Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. -- Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13
Call upon God.
As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me. -- Psalm 55:16
Trust in the Lord.
The LORD shall ... save them, because they trust in him. -- Psalm 37:40
Get to know God.
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction. -- 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
Wait for him.
Wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee. -- Proverbs 20:22
Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us. -- Isaiah 25:9
Just look at him.
Look unto me, and be ye saved. -- Isaiah 45:22
Get lost.
The Son of man is come to save that which was lost. -- Matthew 18:11, Luke 19:10
Get lucky.
I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. ... Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: -- Romans 9:15-22
For we are saved by hope. -- Romans 8:24
Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. -- Luke 13:3, 5
Don't be so darned wicked.
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. -- Ezekiel 18:27
Don't offend the little ones.
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. -- Matthew 18:6, Mark 9:14, Luke 17:2
Don't be filthy or naughty; receive the engrafted word.
Lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. -- James 1:21
Walk upright.
Whoso walketh uprightly shall be saved. -- Proverbs 28:18
Don't lust.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. -- James 1:15
Bridle your tongue.
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. -- James 1:26
Believe in Jesus.
Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. -- John 3:36
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. -- John 6:47
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. -- Acts 16:31
See Jesus and believe in him.
Every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. -- John 6:40
Confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. -- Romans 10:9
Confess Jesus before men.
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. -- Matthew 10:32
Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God. -- Luke 12:8
Obey Jesus.
And [Jesus] being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. -- Hebrews 5:9
Hear the words of Jesus and believe in whoever sent him.
He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life. -- John 5:24
Hear and do the sayings of Jesus.
Whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock. -- Matthew 7:24
Keep Jesus' saying.
If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. -- John 8:51
Drink Jesus' water.
Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. -- John 4:14
Be dead with Jesus.
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: -- 2 Timothy 2:11
Be born again.
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. -- John 3:3
Be born of water and the spirit.
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. -- John 3:5
Believe Paul's gospel.
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Believe and be baptized.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. -- Mark 16:16
Just get baptized (you can keep the filth of the flesh).
Baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh). -- 1 Peter 3:21
Have a contrite spirit.
The LORD ... saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. -- Psalm 34:18
Don't be deluded by God.
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned. -- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
Don't be blinded by God.
Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. ... God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. ... Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see. -- Romans 11:7-10
Bear good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. -- Matthew 7:19, Luke 3:9, 13:9
Be grafted in.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. -- Romans 11:23
Be chosen, not just called.
For many are called, but few are chosen. -- Matthew 22:14, 20:16
God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation. -- 2 Thessalonians 2:13
Be perfect.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. -- Matthew 5:48
Be meek.
When God arose to judgment, to save all the meek of the earth. -- Psalm 76:9
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. -- Matthew 5:5
Be washed by the Holy Ghost.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. -- Titus 3:5
Get your sins remitted by someone who has received the Holy Ghost. (Or who has been breathed on by Jesus)
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. -- John 20:22-23
Be pure in heart.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. -- Matthew 5:8
Be upright in heart.
My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart. -- Psalm 7:10
Be converted and become like a little child.
Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 18:3, Mark 10:15
Be a child of the needy.
he shall save the children of the needy. -- Psalm 72:4
Be persecuted for righteousness sake.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 5:10
Be righteous.
Righteousness delivereth from death. -- Proverbs 10:2, 11:4
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. -- Matthew 25:46
Be more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees.
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 5:20
Forsake all that you have.
Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. -- Luke 14:33
Hate your own life.
The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. John 12:25
Lose your life for Christ's sake.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. -- 10:39, Matthew 16:25, Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24, Luke 17:33
Belong to a household that has at least one believer.
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. -- Acts 16:31
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. -- 1 Corinthians 7:14
Get saved by your spouse.
For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? -- 1 Corinthians 7:16
Save your whole family by hearing Simon's magic words.
Call for Simon ... who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. -- Acts 11:13-14
Follow the commandments (at least some of them).
If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -- Matthew 19:17-19
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? ... Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. -- Mark 10:17-19
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. -- Revelation 22:14
Keep some of the commandments, give all your money to the poor, and follow Jesus.
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? ... Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. ...thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.-- Luke 18:18-22
Keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. -- Revelation 14:12
Do the commandments and teach others to do them.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 5:19
Sow to the Spirit.
He that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. -- Galatians 6:8
Endure to the end.
He that endureth to the end shall be saved. -- Matthew 10:22, 24:13, Mark 13:13
Wait until you die and then have the Mormons baptize you (after you're dead).
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? -- 1 Corinthians 15:29
Wait until you die and then hear the voice of the Son of God.
The dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. -- John 5:25
Be faithful unto death.
Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. -- Revelation 2:10
Get buried with Jesus by being baptized into death.
We are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. -- Romans 6:4-5
Always wear a wedding garment.
And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. -- Matthew 22:11-13
Don't get married. (Married people don't go to heaven.)
They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage. -- Luke 20:35
Have lots of babies (and be faithful, charitable, holy, and sober).
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. -- 1 Timothy 2:14-15
Become a eunuch for the kingdom of heaven's sake.
There be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. -- Matthew 19:12
Don't defile yourself with women. (Be a virgin male.)
...the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. -- Revelation 14:4
Don't love your family more than Jesus.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. -- Matthew 10:37
Abandon your home and family for Jesus' name's sake.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. -- Matthew 19:29, Mark 10:29-30, Luke 18:29-30
Hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and your own life.
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. -- Luke 14:26
Don't hate your brother.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. -- 1 John 3:15
Ask your parents to beat you with a rod.
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. -- Proverbs 23:13-14
Receive a child in the name of Jesus.
Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me. -- Luke 9:48a
Receive a Christian.
He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. -- Matthew 10:40
Receive a prophet in the name of a prophet.
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward. -- Matthew 10:41
Receive a righteous man in the name of a righteous man.
He that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. -- Matthew 10:41
Receive the gift of eternal life from God through Jesus.
The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. -- Romans 6:23
Don't despise government or walk after flesh.
The Lord knoweth how ... to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. -- 2 Peter 2:9-10
Don't resist the powers that be.
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. -- Romans 13:2
Wash your wicked heart.
Wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. -- Jeremiah 4:14
Wash your face and anoint your head when you fast.
When thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; hat thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly. -- Matthew 6:17-18
Heed yourself and the doctrine.
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. -- 1 Timothy 4:16
Get saved by Jesus' name.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name [beside's Jesus'] under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. -- Acts 4:12
Get saved by God's name.
Save me, O God, by thy name. -- Psalm 54:1
Get saved by God's shining face.
Turn us again, O God, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved. -- Psalm 80:3, 7, 19
Don't doubt.
He that doubteth is damned. -- Romans 14:23
Don't fall away after you're saved.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance. -- Hebrews 6:4-6
Don't eat your own vomit.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. -- 2 Peter 2:21-22
Don't blaspheme the Holy Ghost
He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. -- Mark 3:29, Matthew 12:31-32, Luke 12:10
Don't let God make you wicked.
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. -- Proverbs 16:4
Convert a sinner.
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death. -- James 5:20
Turn yourself over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so your spirit may be saved. (For fornicators only.)
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you ... deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. -- 1 Corinthians 5:1-5
Enter at the strait gate.
Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. -- Luke 13:23-24
Enter through the Jesus door.
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved. -- John 10:9
Don't look back.
Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. -- Luke 9:62

Become an Israeli citizen.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. -- Romans 11:26
Don't be a Jew.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. -- Matthew 8:12
Don't be a serpent or a viper, and make sure none of your ancestors were prophet killers.
Ye are the children of them which killed the prophets ... Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? -- Matthew 23:31-33
Don't be an unrighteous fornicator, idolater, adulterer, effeminate, thief, covetous, drunkard, reviler, extortioner, or an abuser of yourself with mankind.
The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. -- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Don't be fearful, unbelieving, abominable, murdering, whore mongering, a sorcerer, an idolater, or a liar.
The fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. -- Revelation 21:8
Fear God.
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death. -- Proverbs 14:27
Fear God and cry a lot while praying.
[Jesus] who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. -- Hebrews 5:7
Don't let your eye become evil.
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! -- Matthew 6:23
Pluck out your eye if it offends you.
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. -- Matthew 5:29-30, 18:8-9, Mark 9:43-49
Cut off your right hand if it offends you.
If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. -- Matthew 5:29-30, 18:8-9, Mark 9:43-49
Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.
Let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. -- Matthew 6:4-5
Be ordained to eternal life.
As many as were ordained to eternal life believed. -- Acts 13:48
Be drawn by by the Father.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44
Be elected by God before you're born.
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. -- Romans 9:11
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. -- 1 Thessalonians 1:4
Don't be ashamed of Jesus.
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. -- Mark 8:38, Luke 9:26
Don't let anyone see you do anything good.
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. -- Matthew 6:1
Don't let anyone say anything nice about you.
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! -- Luke 6:26
Don't love the world or the things in it.
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. -- 1 John 2:15
Don't be a friend to the world.
Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. -- James 4:4
Be given by the Father and come to the Son.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. -- John 6:37
Come to the Father by Jesus.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. -- John 14:6
Be given by God to Jesus (or whatever).
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. -- John 17:1-2
Be saved by Jesus' life (if you're a friend) or by his death if your an enemy).
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. -- Romans 5:10
Don't get circumcised.
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing ... ye are fallen from grace. -- Galatians 5:2-4
Be dead in your sins and uncircumcised flesh, and then let God quicken you with Christ.
But God ... when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ. -- Ephesians 2:4-5
Be chosen from the beginning.
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation. -- 2 Thessalonians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses. -- Colossians 2:13
Be predestinated by God.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate ... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. -- Romans 8:29-30
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us ... according to the good pleasure of his will. -- Ephesians 1:4-5
Be poor, not rich.
He shall ... save the souls of the needy. -- Psalm 72:13
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. --Matthew 5:3
Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. ... But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. -- Luke 6:20, 24
Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. -- Matthew 19:23-24
But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. -- Luke 6:24
Ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. -- James 5:1
Be poor in this world, be rich in faith, and love God.
Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? -- James 2:5
Be sad.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. -- Matthew 5:4
Cry a lot.
Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them. -- Psalm 107:13, 19
Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh. -- Luke 6:21
Don't laugh.
Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep. -- Luke 6:25
Be last.
But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. -- Matthew 19:30, 20:16; Mark 10:31; Luke 13:30
Be least.
He that is least among you all, the same shall be great. -- Luke 9:48b
Eat the bread that comes down from heaven.
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. -- John 6:50
Eat Jesus' body and drink his blood.
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. -- John 6:53-54
Have faith in Jesus' blood.
God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood. -- Romans 3:25
Be saved and justified by Jesus' blood.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. -- Romans 5:9
Make people revile you, persecute you, hate you, avoid you, say bad things about you, and call you names for Jesus' sake.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. -- Matthew 5:11
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven. -- Luke 6:22-23
Follow peace and holiness with all men
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. -- Hebrews 12:14
Believe in the foolishness of preaching.
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. -- 1 Corinthians 1:21
Be innocent.
He [God] shall deliver the island of the innocent. -- Job 22:30
Give a cup of water to a Christian.
For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. -- Matthew 10:42, Mark 9:41
Love Christians.
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. -- 1 John 3:14
Love your enemies, do good to them, and give them lots of money.
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. -- Luke 6:35, Matthew 5:44-45
Love God and your neighbor.
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. -- Luke 10:26-28
Be a peacemaker.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. -- Matthew 5:9
Feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, take in strangers, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. -- Matthew 25:34-36

Be merciful.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. -- Matthew 5:7
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. -- James 2:13
Forgive people.
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. Matthew 6:14
Don't judge.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged. -- Matthew 7:1, Luke 6:37
Be humble.
He [God] shall save the humble person. -- Job 22:29
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 7:1
Love the truth.
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. -- 2 Thessalonians 2:10
Don't pray in public.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. -- Matthew 6:5
Be saved by other people's unbelief.
(You can have some of mine; I've got plenty.)
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief. -- Romans 11:30
Just ask.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. -- Matthew 7:7-8
All you need is love.
Love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God. -- 1 John 4:7

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Ken Sublett
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Justified is not saved

March 2 2011, 5:09 PM 

There are lots of things that "save" or give good spiritual health. However, baptism has to do with BECOMING A DISCIPLE OF CHRIST.

Jesus commanded

Teach and disciple
.......teaching what Jesus COMMANDED to be taught.

1. Christ prophesied baptism in Isaiah which is directly parallel to Mark 16
Those who allow Christ to make their garments as white as some will be saved
Those wo REFUSE TO OBEY (Apistos, believeth not) will be consumed.
That prophecy by Christ is repeated in Malachi 3.
2. Mark spoke of the beginning or ARCHE or "most important" part of the gospel for US and then discussed the baptism by Jesus' disciples and Jesus Himself. This was to fulfill or FILL-full baptism with His own righteousness.
3. God the Father in heaven did not confess Jesus of Nazareth as His Son until after He was baptized.
4. People are baptized INTO or CLOTHED with Christ only at baptism
5. Sins are remitted only after obedience at baptism.
6. That gives the disciple A holy spirit so he can read BLACK text on BROWN paper (2 Cor 3)
7. In 1 Peter 3:21 the same Peter called it A good conscience, consciousness or a co perception.
Therefore A holy spirit (ours) is A good conscience which makes our spirit a holy temple
8. No one is said to have sins remitted, washed way, given A holy spirit or A
good conscience WITHOUT baptism.
9. Those SAVED by being baptized in Acts were then ADDED to the church by Jesus Christ who accepts them as DISCIPLES. Faith does not do that. Faith is the POWER which allows us to obey.
10. If you do not obey the gospel you are still in your sins: nothing but baptism makes that promise.

And you have no historic scholar who ever said "baptism does not save" who didn't quickly add "without faith."The modern faith-only people are not readers of their own "fathers."

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Ken Sublett
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Grace Centered and the Nicene Creed

March 4 2011, 6:05 PM 

There is a lot of "trinitarianism" posted on GCMF and any refutation of that would naturally get you into trouble with their CREED. That creed is the modified Nicene Creed further modified by lots of proof texts out of context.

However, one can subscribe to parts of the Nicene Creed without violating their EXCLUSIVE CREED.

For instance, the historic Trinitarians never thought of God really being three, separated "people" each with their own center of consciousness and "talents." That has naturally led to resting on the voice of "a" spirit which allows you to violate the total history of the Bible and IMPOSE instruments knowing that you are sowing discord but "grace gonna cover it." They are endorsing a strange woman who defends REVELING in the "worship service."

The strong delusions begins with a pagan view of the Godhead.

Lively Stone at GCM: You have a totally legalistic view and I pity you. Do you not know that legalism is a sinful mindset? Instrumental music used in the worship of our God is nothing but healing to us. When we worship with all we've got, it ushers in the presence of God. What is more powerful than God coming to visit?

All I know is that God is present with us in our worship, and I know He feels entirely welcome. We love to revel in His presence, lifting up the name of Jesus! He revels with us!

Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1Peter 4:1 ¶ Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable (lawless) idolatries:

Jesus said that the Father HIDES Himself from the WORLD: these are the revelers.

kmos , o(,
A. revel, carousal, merry-making, eis daita thaleian kai khoron himeroenta kai es philokudea k. h.Merc.481, cf. Thgn.829, 940; pinein kai km khrasthai Hdt.1.21, cf. E.Alc.804, etc.; kmoi kai euphrosunai B.10.12; deipna kai sun aultrisi kmoi Pl.Tht.173d; heortai kai k. Id.R.573d; en km einai, of a city, X.Cyr.7.5.25; erkhesthai tisin epi kmon Id.Smp.2.1; epi kmon badizein Ar.Pl.1040; esp. in honour of gods, tois en astei Dionusiois h pomp . . kai ho k. Lexap.D. 21.10, cf. IG2.971, etc.; km thuramakhois te pugmakhiaisi Pratin.Lyr. 1.8; khorois kmois Huakinthou E.Hel.1469 (lyr.).

2. concrete, band of revellers, k. euiou theou Id.Ba.1167 (lyr.); esp. of the procession which celebrated a victor in games, Pi.P.5.22, etc.: generally, rout, band, k. Erinun A.Ag.1189; of an army, k. anaulotatos E.Ph.791 (lyr.); k. aspidphoros Id.Supp.390; band of hunters, Id.Hipp.55; of maidens, Id.Tr.1184; of doves, Id.Ion 1197.
II. the ode sung at one of these festive processions, Pi.P.8.20, 70, O.4.10, B.8.103; meligarun tektones kmn Pi.N.3.5, cf. Ar.Th.104, 988 (both lyr.).

1Peter 4:4 ¶ Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: blasphemeo

The GOD is Bacchus or Dionysus: they piped hoping that Jesus would sing and dance. He consigned them to the marketplace where all things were sold. This was the "god" worshipped in the temple as the Abomination of Desolation.

9) Strabo Geography 10.3.13 Corybantes (Phrygian castrate priests of Cybele) in their caverns invented this hide-stretched circlet, (tambourine) and blent its Bacchic revelry with the high-pitched, sweet-sounding breath of Phrygian flutes, and in Rhea's [Eve, Zoe] hands placed its resounding noise, to accompany the shouts of the Bacchae, (ev-ah!) Mother and from Mother Rhea frenzied Satyrs obtained it and joined it to the choral dances of the Trieterides, (Triennial Festivals) in whom Dionysus takes delight. Bacchae And in the Palamedes the Chorus says,

Thysa, daughter of Dionysus, who on Ida rejoices with his dear mother
in the Iacchic revels of tambourines.

"This Eve, on account of her having been in the beginning deceived by the serpent,
and become the author of sin,
the wicked demon, who also is called Satan,
who then spoke to her through the serpent,

and who works even to this day
in those men that are possessed by him
invokes as Eve." (Theophilus, p. 105)

Paul NEW ALL ABOUT EVE and theologians dont.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Mar 4, 2011 6:33 PM

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Grace Centered and the Laded Burden

April 1 2011, 1:36 PM 

Grace-Centered Magazine Forum promotes the labor and heavy laden role which Jesus came to silence.

There are many word definitions and contemporaneoud literature which proves that those imposing instrumental noise in what they call "worship services" are acting as Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites named by Christ in the prophets as "entertaining preachers, singers and instrument players."

The VIOLENT try to take the Kingdom by FORCE. Both violent and force points to the use of performing arts and crafts used to silence the Words of Christ and the fulfilled prophets by Jesus of Nazareth who commanded that we teach what HE commanded to be taught. The Law of silence lets them get away with with the silliness that "He didn't say we could NOT teach what He has NOT commanded." That proves that O.Idiot has landed.

The effeminate priests of Dionysus shook the thyrus or bundle of reeds. In addition, the reed was vital in the seductive process of the serpent: 0.Idiot

Behold! the Holy Idiot, lost within
A private world. He'll have the chance to win
New freedom from confining rules.
Rejoice The madness! For it brings another choice.
Now let the Saturnalia begin

When the time comes, as it always does, when the old rules, conceptual structures, prejudices and beliefs are no longer adequate to the challenges at hand, then a Divine Maniac is needed. He or she lives in a private world, and so is not bound by the shared conventions, preconceptions or norms of the society. The Gods - or Chance - select the Idiot who will become the savior who will transform society. He is elevated to King for a short time (for only so much madness can be tolerated), and must undergo many transformations before, with luck, he rejuvenates the world. [Second Incarnation]

It is appropriate that 0.Idiot leads the trumps for, according to Cartari (Imagini degli Dei, 1647), Bacchus invented the "triumph" in the form of the wild processions of maenads, panthers and other creatures, which he led (Williams 31). Indeed, Latin triumphus or triumpus comes from Etruscan, which got the word from Greek thriambos, a hymn to Bacchus (Bonfante, p. 17). Our image is based on the famous Townley Vase (2nd cent. BCE), which depicts a Bacchanalian triumph.

What men or gods are these? What maidens loath? What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape? What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy? - Keats, "Ode to a Grecian Urn"

See how Jesus in Matthew 11 defines with absolute certainty those who IMPOSE labor and LADED people down with burdens.

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Ken Sublet
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Re: Grace Centered Magazine Forum: LABOR and heavy LADEN imposed.

April 3 2011, 4:06 PM 

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until
now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence,
and the violent take it by force.

If you had performing singers with or without instruments you are the victim of sacred violence. The role of the "Doctors of the Law" is to take away the key to knowledge. Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites and Christ in Ezekiel 33 named slick speakers, singers, instrument players and a stupified "audience."

harpaz , fut. 3. seize, overpower, overmaster, glssan ha. phobos A.Th. 259; seize, occupy a post, X.An.4.6.11; harpasai peiran seize an opportunity of attacking, S.Aj.2; ha. ton kairon Plu.Phil.15; snap up, hsper heurma Herod.6.30.
Aesch. Seven 245

Why are your words ill-omened, when you still grasp the gods' statues?

In my weakness fear controls my tongue.

[260] If only you would grant my plea for a small service.
I welcome this sentiment of yours over what you said before. [265] And in addition, keep your distance from the gods' images and make a stronger prayer, that the gods fight on our side.
And once you have heard my prayers, then sing the victory song,
the sacred cry of joy and goodwill, our Greek ritual of shouting in tribute,
[270] that brings courage to our friends and dissolves fear of the enemy.
The Crooked Race we are to save outselves is the Greek Word "Aluo."

This sacred violence involved in all superstitious rituals is caused by FEAR that you haven't worked hard enough. In pagan religionism this FEAR or anxiety or mental excitement is created by the enemy of Christ and is hostile to Christ.
Aluô , be deeply stirred, excited: 1. from grief, to be distraught, beside oneself be weary, ennuyé, epitôn sumposiôn sumposi-on , to, A.drinking-party, symposium, Thgn. 298,496, Phoc.11, Alc.Supp.23.3, Pi.N.9.48, 6. from joy or exultation (rarely), to be beside oneself, Od.18.333, A.Th.391,
Baptism is to REMOVE this lust for sacred violence. A baptized believer has been COOLED down and will neither need or tolerate professional violent enemies of Christ and HIS Word.

Bapism is to exempt the believer from the crooked race of imposing the violence of song and sermon:
Ab-lo?[16] et nunc quid moraris exsurge baptizare et ablue peccata tua invocato nomine ipsius
I. to wash off or away, to wash, cleanse, purify. abluere sitim, to quench abluere sibi umbras, to remove darkness (by bringing a light), Of the washing away of earth by a shower, Varr. R. R. 1, 35.In eccl. Lat., of baptism: munere divinitatis abluti,
II. Trop., of calming the passions: omnis ejusmodi perturbatio animi placatione abluatur, be removed (fig. derived from the religious rite of washing in expiation of sin),
Girard on music as sacred violence.

5.4 The revelation of the cross of Christ thus begins a process in history of the progressive unveiling of sacred, sanctioned violence. The Resurrection is not just the survival but the permanent establishment of the victim's experience in history. The satanic interpretation of collective violence, which is the interpretation of the perpetrators of that violence, is now forever challenged by the victim's perspective on that violence. Sacred, or sanctioned, violence is unveiled as violence.

5.4.1 The unveiling of sacred violence, however, has the more immediate consequence of taking away humanitys only bulwark against bad mimetic violence, thus resulting in the potential for increasing that brand of violence.

5.4.2 Moreover, the satanic powers' hold on humanity won't go away that easily. Their attempts at veiled sacred violence become more desperate and generally more lethal. The satanic powers can take advantage of the fact that humankind has never really known any other way to stem the tide of 'bad' violence.
It is like an addiction. In fact, the mechanism of sacred violence is similar to taking drugs. The Greek word, pharmakos, that we might best translate as "scapegoat" (because it designated one who was expelled from the community), is obviously related to the Greek word for "drug," pharmakon.

The idea is the same behind both. A drug is a poison that, given the right circumstance and precisely the right dosage, can also be a remedy. Sacred violence is a violence -- and violence is ordinarily poisonous to us -- that, given the right circumstance and precisely the right dosage, can also be a remedy against 'bad' mimetic violence. (See my sermon for Epiphany 7B 2003 for more on pharmakos.)

John 18 the sorceriers or Pharmakos are speakers, singers and instrument players who HAD DECEIVED the whole world.

Yet addiction builds as the system builds immunity to the drug. Addiction to sacred violence can escalate as the Gospel immunity to it builds within our systems.
5.4.2 Behind the anthropological predilections against the victim's perspective, there is a very practical, quasi-historical reason: namely, the victim is shunned and often killed. In the ancient world, the role of music during ritual sacrifice was often to drown out any cries from the victim. (45) It is crucial that the victim not be heard. The practical mechanics of making victims means that it is unusual for the victim's perspective to survive. In the world of ancient ritual it was probably impossible.45. The Greek verb myo means to close the mouth or shut the eyes. There is debate about whether myo plays a crucial role in the etymology of other significant words such as myth, mystery, and even music. These etymologies make sense within the Girardian hypotheses. Myth means to close ourselves to the victim and tell the tale according to the perpetrator's perspective; mystery cults are based on the silence of the victims; music derives from drowning out the voice of the victim.

3466. musth/rion musterion, moos-tay´-ree-on; from a derivative of mu/w muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or mystery (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): mystery

They will always try to SILENCE the Word of God.

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Ken Sublett
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The Absolute MARK of the Beast (Theiron)

April 5 2011, 2:22 PM 

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Ken Sublet
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All ye that labor and are heave laden

April 5 2011, 11:43 PM 

I have changed a recent paper to more directly address THE GOSPEL.

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

The Greek and Latin words define and are used in the literature to speak of the pagans who use religious rituals as violence to turn the audience into cowards. The Scribes and Pharisees were hypocrites and Christ in Ezekiel 33 names speakers, singers and instrument players. People use rhetoric, singing and playing instruments which is defined as sorcery because it intentionally alters people's mind to make it easier to deceive.

Matthew 11:25 ¶ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Matthew 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

The WISE are sophists meaning technically trained rhetoricians, singers, instrument players and actors. God hides Himself from these people so just forget it, suckers.

Jesus also said that He would not pray for the WORLD these people want to infiltrate into the church. The World also speaks of all of the adorning human practices used by mercinaries.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

You must be aware that increasingly these banditos heap staff on top of staff to keep you BUSY all week including all of the time you have saved as money to which they have no right.

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Ken Sublet
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A cappella is a scape goat or a Judas goat.

April 6 2011, 11:39 PM 

The PATTERNISM among the "scholars" promoting musical instruments in the church is clearly derived from the Monarchy which has been turned over to worship the starry host." 2 Chronicles 29 is a message from "the spirit" commanding them to perform INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and even threatening people who do not obey. They are deliberately leading their enablers into what Paul called DEMON or DEVIL worship.

Jeremiah 7:21 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jeremiah 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying,
....Obey my voice, and I will be your God,
....and ye shall be my people:
....and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you,
....that it may be well unto you.
Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear,
....but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart,
....and went backward, and not forward.
Jeremiah 7:25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day
....I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets,
....daily rising up early and sending them:
Jeremiah 7:26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear,
.... but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.
Jeremiah 7:27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them;
....but they will not hearken to thee
.... thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.
Jeremiah 7:28 But thou shalt say unto them,
....This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God,
....nor receiveth correction:
....truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.

The Iamblichus

Of such a character are some of the animals of Egypt, and in the same manner, the human being everywhere is sacred.12 Some of the consecrated victims, however, make the familiar relationship more conspicuous, so far as they affect the analysis in respect to the kindred and more sacred origin of the primitive elements with the Superior (divine) causes. This being accomplished, the benefits which are imparted from it are more perfect.
12. In other words, likely to be a victim at the altar. "As Manetho related, they were used in archaic times to burn living men in the city of Ilithyia, styling them Typhonian." Ashmes, who expelled the Hyk-sos rulers, put an end to the custom. It existed in Asiatic countries,where Semitic worships existed, and even the Hebrews seem not to have been an exception
14. Porphyry and others of the philosophers of that period declared distinctly that the sacrifices of living creatures were not for the gods at all, but for daemons and the lower orders of spiritual essences. Indeed, their sentiments were considered as evidence of a hostility to Judaism. In archaic times, and even in many centuries of the historical period, human victims were immolated, and the Hebrew writings seem to recognize the custom (Leviticus xxvii, 28, 29; Judges xi, 30-40; Micah, vi, 7). Plutarch denounced this practice, and declared his belief that there was never a god that required it, but it was only intended to avert and appease the malice and rancor of evil spirits. The slaughter of hogs at the festivals of Adonis, Osiris and Demites seems to have been of the latter character, as swine were abhorred in Oriental countries.
Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 refers to the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and says:

1Corinthians 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh:
....are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
1Corinthians 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing,
....or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice,
....they sacrifice to devils, and not to God:
....and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

In Hebrews 13 He writes:

Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.
....For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats,
....which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Hebrews 13:10 We have an altar,
.... whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
Hebrews 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts,
....whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin,
....are burned without the camp.
Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood,
....suffered without the gate.
Hebrews 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Hebrews 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Hebrews 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,
....that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

If you are following the PATTERNISM of the sacrificial system you ARE worshiping Demons and you believe the music will appease them. Not so: you are just in a holding pattern.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Grace Centered Magazine Forum: LABOR and heavy LADEN imposed.

April 7 2011, 2:58 PM

Arnobius writing (A.D. 297-303) Ridicules instrumental music in worship and Charismatic Worship as idolatrous.
In a footnote on the first page of Book I the editor notes that-- arnobius, instrumental music in worship,
The words insanir, m bacchari, refer to the appearance of the ancient seers when under the influence of the deity. The meaning is, that they make their asserverations with all the confidence of a seer when filled, as he pretended, with the influence of the god." (Arnibious, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 413)

He notes that it is childish that the gods of the pagans were not interested in heavenly things but with the courser things of earth. However, he is aware that the professional religionists devised the myths and fables to fool fools. They felt this need because ...
...."we need to do something about the falling attendance."

Nay, rather, to speak out more truly, the augurs, the dream interpreters, the soothsayers, the prophets, and the priestlings, ever vain, have devised these fables; for they,
.....fearing that their own arts be brought to nought, and that they may extort but scanty contributions from the devotees, now few and infrequent,whenever they have found you to be willing that their craft should come into disrepute, cry aloud, the Gods are neglected, and
in the temples there is now a very thin attendance.

For ceremonies are exposed to derision, and the time- honoured rites of institutions once sacred have sunk before the superstitions of new religions.

And men--a senseless race--being unable, from their inborn blindness, to see even that which is placed in open light,
dare to assert in their frenzy
what you in your sane mind do not blush to believe.
(Arnobius Against the Heathen, Ante-Nicene Fathers, VI, p. 418).

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Ken Sublet
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The 2 Chronicles 29 PATTERN is proven to be WITCHCRAFT

April 8 2011, 11:50 PM 

2 Chronicles 33 proves that Instrumental Music patterned by 2 Chronicles 29 is universally understood to be witchcraft or sorcery. The testimony ends with Revelation 17 and the Babylon mother of harlots using the lusted after "fruits" in Revelation 18 as speakers, singers and instrument players. John says that the hypocritic operatives trying to defeat Jesus and His Word HAD deceived the whole world. They have been unleashed by Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) as SUN WORSHIP in Jerusalem and in a church near you. They Lake of Fire was prepared for anyone using their own imagination and saying that it is the will of God.

The 100% False Teachers using Hezekiah's Reformclaim that the SPIRIT told them that "God commanded instrumental praise and we should not disobey." This falls BETWEEN the pagan, musical rituals of 2 Chronicles 28 and chapter 33 where music is identified as the Worship of the Sun gods (Apollo, Abaddon, Apollyon). The SACRIFICIAL MUSIC was a PLAGUE STOPPING ceremony used to COLLECT the people close to Jerusalem to protect the KING'S hide. The PROOF TEXT false teachers use proves that they have been seduced by the same demonism.

2 Chronicles 28 speaks of the idolatrous worship
......which had polluted the Temple.
2 Chronicles 29 is a plague stopping animal sacrifice.
......God DID NOT command sacrifices OR the instruments.
2 Chronicles has Manassah restoring the Demonish:
......the words for singing and playing instruments proves
......that it was demonism.

If in doubt read Acts 7 which proves that god ABANDONED Israel to worship the starry host because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

I have looked up the Greek and Latin words all of which point to the worship of Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) in Revelation. John calls the sorcerers who HAD deceived the whole world.

How can you account for a man willing to lie about all of the Bible and recorded history ONLY causing up to 1/2 of the owners to cast themselves out of their synagogue. To be able to fool even half of the people is the meaning of Lying Wonders: it certainly is a sign.

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Ken Sublet
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The DIRECT COMMAND is for the performers to STOP IT.

April 12 2011, 11:47 PM 

The Greek word PAUO is the REST Jesus brought to shut down the laded burden and the burden laders. The word usually means STOP the preaching, singing, playing, acting or any of the hypocritic arts and crafts imposed by the Babylon mother of harlots (Rev 17) or any of the Mother Goddess worshipped by emasculated men. No one can be a disciple and not know that Jesus died on the cross to COOL the wrath of passion and pride of mankind. This was what made them want to slaughter innocent animals while claiming that the gods needed to be fed. Of course, God knew that they offered the sacrifices to Him but THEY ate the meat.

That's why of any of the hypocritic Scribes and Pharisees Christ named as speakers, singers and instrument players Jesus issued a DIRECT COMMAND which no disciple could possible miss. He says

STOP IT.. Of course the Scribes and Pharisees will attack you like a lioness threatening her cubs. Jesus in John 17 warned you about confronting the mother goddess priests that speaking the Word would get you hurt. It doesn't matter what they say: the witness is out there and no one can be excused for being taken captive by the mother goddess.

Eur. Med. 160 Nurse
Do you hear what she says, how she calls on Themis invoked in prayer, daughter of Zeus, [170] who is deemed guardian of men's oaths? It is not possible that my mistress will bring her wrath to an end in some trifling deed.

Eur. Med. 173 Chorus
Oh, how I wish she could come face to face with us
......and receive the sound [175] of our words to her,
......on the chance that somehow she might give up her angry temper!
May my good will never desert my friends! [180] But go now and bring her out of the house. Tell her that here are friends, and hurry before she harms those inside
......For this grief of hers is charging powerfully forward.

Eur. Med. 197 Nurse
I will do so. But there is doubt whether I shall persuade [185] my mistress. Still, I will make you a further present of my labor, though she glowers at the servants with the look of a lioness with cubs when any of them approaches her with something to say.
......[190] You would be right to call men of old foolish, not at all wise:
......for while they invented songs for festivities, banquets,
......and dinners and added pleasant sounds to human life,
[195] no one discovered how to put an end to mortals' bitter griefs
......with music and song sung to the lyre.

It is because of these griefs that deaths and terrible disasters overthrow houses.
It would have been a gain for mortals [200] to cure these ills by song.
......Where there are feasts of plenty,
......why do they raise the loud song to no purpose?
......The abundance of the feast at hand provides mortals
......with its own pleasure.
Exit Nurse into the house.

When you have had the pleasure of watching the Peter Pans use you for their own pleasure and prophet, that's all there is.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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