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Ken Sublet
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.35

Re: Grace Centered Magazine Forum: LABOR and heavy LADEN imposed.

April 15 2011, 4:32 PM 

Even if there was any command for instruments, this is the way it would sound: Psallo permits plucking with the FINGERS and never with a PLECTRUM. So, they lie, lie, lie.

Enough! Enough!


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 67.142.130.44 on Apr 19, 2011 10:49 AM


 
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Rocnar
(no login)
98.81.67.32

Re: Grace Centered Magazine Forum: LABOR and heavy LADEN imposed.

April 16 2011, 12:17 AM 

If you believe the BIBLE is the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD please continue and take the link. If you don't believe the Bible is INSPIRED you might as well take a nap.


(speakers on)

http://www.kingjamesbibles.com/psalms_150.html


 
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Rocnar
(no login)
98.81.67.32

Re: Grace Centered Magazine Forum: LABOR and heavy LADEN imposed.

April 16 2011, 2:47 AM 

If you took the nap you might want to hear this.



(speakers on)


http://www.kingjamesbibles.com/2_timothy_3.html

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

"The BIBLE Is the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD"

April 16 2011, 5:11 AM 

II Tim. 3:16 -- "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

  • Inspired: Psalm 150 [your reference]

  • Inspired: II Samuel 6:

    [14] And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
    [15] So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.
    [16] ... Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.
    [17] ... David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.
    [20] Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!

    Commanded by God in the assembly [???]: being girded [???]; leaping and dancing [???]; shouting and sounding the trumpet [???]; offering burnt and peace offerings [???]; uncovering self in the gathering [???]

  • Inspired: Gen. 4:[8] And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

  • Inspired: Jer. 29:[23] Because they have committed villany in Israel, and have committed adultery with their neighbours' wives, and have spoken lying words in my name, which I have not commanded them; even I know, and am a witness, saith the LORD.

So, what is your point? That Psalm 150 is inspired [no disagreement there] and is, therefore, commanded by God? I think not. There is not a single passage that indicates that God has ever commanded to use musical devices in the assembly of saints.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.240.240.147

Re: "The BIBLE Is the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD"

April 16 2011, 9:26 AM 

The following is from the INSPIRED Word of God:

"And if [any] mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe" (Exodus 21:23-25 KJV).

And so is this:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matt. 5:38-39 KJV).

Psalm 150 is inspired and so is this:

"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" (Eph. 5:19 KJV).

And so is this:

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord" (Col. 3:16 KJV).

Here we have passages from the inspired Old Testament, followed by passages from the inspired New Testament that tell us to do something different from what is stated in the Old Testament. One OT passage tells us to repay hurt with hurt, whereas Jesus says to turn the other cheek. Another OT passage tells us to praise God with musical instruments, whereas Jesus through Paul tells us to sing and make melody in our hearts to God. Not one instrument is mentioned.

The point is that, although the OT and NT are both inspired, the NT now overrules the OT. In Col. 2:13-14 (KJV), Paul tells us that the ordinances of the Mosaic Law were nailed to the cross of Christ:

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

The writer of Hebrews says the same thing: "In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away" (Heb. 8:13 KJV).

We must follow the principles and commandments of the New Testament and not "justify" our worldly desires in worship by running back and selecting things like instrumental music from the Old Testament that suit us. That is an abuse of inspired Scripture.



 
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Roncar
(no login)
98.81.72.50

Eyes Wide Open

April 20 2011, 1:41 PM 

Hey Ken, why did you edit-out your audio player? Did you get it at the "WE DON'T DO JUNK" store? Maybe it just wouldn't say what you wanted it to say.

A wise man once said "real men don't use the edit function". Just something to think about.

Please feel free to use Rocnar's audio player. It works just fine. And get this, it even has an infinite warranty and guaranteed to be correct!

By the way, it has been about 2 weeks so it's about time to edit the title on this thread.

Ken, I just couldn't resist messing with you. It's all in fun. Have a good day! happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublet
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.171.0.142

David was a Warrior King: chosen to replace God

April 16 2011, 1:05 PM 

See First Samuel Eight

http://www.piney.com/First-Samuel-Eight.html



#15 is Halal 150: not a psalm. Kings and Levites made boast songs to make war: 150 is inspired in that it is an accuraterecord. It is not inspired as a pattern for the School of what Jesus commanded to be taught.

[linked image]

While you are "sanging and clanging" Twila Paris, you MISSED the fact that Christ spoke only through the prophets and apostles to the godly classes. You sing Halal 150 only if you plan to make yourself vile pretending to be God standing in the holy places.

http://www.piney.com/MuEMailPs149-150.html

lur-aoidos A.one who sings to the lyre, harmonia meaning: In music, stringing, of bows and lyres, musical scale, generally music: rhythm, acting, dancing.
hudr-aulês one who plays the water organ


If you use Halal 150 as a patternism for church when David wanted to play and dance in the firmament you stand judged if you do NOT dance naked just like David.


 
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Rocnar
(no login)
98.81.117.183

Re: David was a Warrior King: chosen to replace God

April 16 2011, 1:58 PM 

The Bible writers claimed repeatedly that they were transmitting the very Word of God, infallible and authoritative in the highest degree.

If the greatest and most influential book of the ages, containing the most beautiful literature and the most perfect moral code ever devised, was partially written by deceiving fanatics, then what hope is there for ever finding meaning and purpose in this world?

If one will seriously investigate Biblical evidences, he will find that their claims of Divine Inspiration were amply justified.

 
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Ken Sublet
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.171.0.142

What God did the Jews Worship

April 16 2011, 2:32 PM 

Acts 7 says that because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai, God turned them (Levi tribe) over to worship the starry host.

"What are the names of the gods they worshipped?

What gods do you worship under Sabazianism or worship of the wandering stars?

That's as simple as "who was buried in Abraham Lincoln's tomb?"

And yet it fools MOST of the people MOST of the time especially if they are latter day sorcerers.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0005_0_05245.html

Jewish Virtual Library: DIONYSUS, CULT OF, the cult of the Greek god of wine and fertility. The non-Jews of Alexandria and Rome alleged that the cult of Dionysus was widespread among Jews. Plutarch tarch gives a Bacchanalian interpretation to the Feast of Tabernacles:

"After the festival called 'the fast' [the Day of Atonement], during the vintage, the Jews place tables laden with different fruits in booths of thickets woven from vines and ivy. Their first festival is called by them Sukkah (). A few days later, the Jews celebrate another festival, which one may simply call a Bacchanalian festival. For this is a festival on which the Jews carry fig branches and sticks adorned with ivy and carry them into the Temple. One does not know" adds Plutarch "what they do in the Temple. It seems reasonable to suppose that they practice rites in honor of Bacchus. For they blow small horns as the people of Argos do during the festival of Dionysus, and call upon their god. Others, who are called Levites, walk in front, either in allusion to Lysios () perhaps 'the god who attenuatescurses' or because they call out 'Euius,' i.e., Bacchus."


They piped hoping that Jesus would sing or lament and dance the Dionysus initiation into the gay brotherhood.

The Scribes (speakers, singers, instrument players, composers) kept the record of the NOT-commanded King, kingdom, temple, sacrificial system and exorcism music. The Scribes DESCRIBE but do not PRESCRIBE.

The church is built upon the foundation of the Prophets (by Christ) and the Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses of the risen Christ. You SPEAK the Word to TEACH the Word: you do not turn a DISCIPLE TO CHRIST school of the Word into a Warrior's Boast song.

If God abandoned the Jacob-cursed Levi tribe to worship the starry host.
What god did the Levi tribe worship?

Answer that and we will put a gold star on your card.


 
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Rocnar
(no login)
98.81.117.29

Re: What God did the Jews Worship

April 16 2011, 4:27 PM 

#15 is Halal 150: not a psalm. Kings and Levites made boast songs to make war: 150 is inspired in that it is an accuraterecord. It is not inspired as a pattern for the School of what Jesus commanded to be taught.

*******************************************************************************

Just as I thought. You don't believe it to be the Inspired Word of God. I think we are done here.

 
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Ken Sublet
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.43

Re: What God did the Jews Worship

April 16 2011, 7:15 PM 

The exodus from Egypt is an inspired record: it is not inspired as prescriptive for us. I assume that most people can grasp that.

The building of the Ark is an inspired record: it is not inspired as a command for us to build an ark.

If David wanted to halal or make himself vile as a warrior that has no recommendation to us unless we want to be thick headed and praise God that He let him put our boot on the heads of the unwashed.

Chorus Echo, the nymph of Cithaeron, returns thy words, which resound beneath the dark vaults of the thick foliage and in the midst of the rocks of the forest; the ivy enlaces thy brow with its tendrils charged with flowers.

"cymbalum': cymbala were hollow hemispheres of metal a few inches in diameter, held one in each hand by the aid of small rings or thongs attached to the center of their convex surfaces. Struck together, they gave a sharp, clanging sound that fitted well with that of the tympana and tibiæ; cf. Catul. 64.262 ``tereti tenuis tinnitus ære ciebant''; Ov. Fast. 4.184 ``æra tinnitus ære epulsa dabunt''; Ov. Fast. 4.189 ``sonus æris acuti''; Aus. Epist. 24.23 ``tinnitus atinnitus aëni.eumlaut;ni.'' Symbol of the effeminate.

Echeo (g2278) ay-kheh'-o; from 2279; to make a loud noise, i.e. reverberate: - roar, sound.

Echos (g2279) ay'-khos; of uncert. affin.; a loud or confused noise ("echo"), i.e. roar: fig. a rumor: - fame, sound.

"It was probably usual to welcome a king or general with music and dancing...The distinctly religious dance is more frequently mentioned. The clear instances of it in the Bible are the dance of the women of Israel at the Red Sea, headed by Miriam with her tambourine (Ex 15:20); the dance of the Israelites round the golden calf (32:19); the dance of the maidens of Shiloah at the annual feast (Jgs 21:19 ff); the leaping or limping of the prophets of Baal round their altar on Carmel (1 K 18:26); and the dancing of David in front of the ark (2 S 6:14-16) (Int. Std. Bible Ency., p. 1169-70).

"This membranophone, translated in the AV as 'timbrel' and 'tabret,' was not permitted in the Temple, although it was mentioned in the Psalter and in religious hymns" (Ps 150:4; Jer. 31:4) Harrison, Into to OT, p. 988).


We make allowances for the brightest of the theologians in that none of them grasp that NO one played instruments IN THE TEMPLE.

 
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Ken Sublet
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.45

Midi harp edited out

April 20 2011, 5:11 PM 

I edited out the pseudo harp to let you know that plucking a maybe three-stringed harp and then matching your voice to the sound or singing TO the harp had nothing to do with modern musical performance.

It's really irritating as most musical performance is: about half of the people do not know that it is the laded burden--creating spiritual anxiety through religious ritual. Nevertheless, it does bad things to the mind as recorded in all history and the findings of musicologists.

The other half KNOW that it is irritating and has the ONLY purpose to prevent you from hearing the Words of Jesus Christ.

From Babylon onward and especially in the Greek writings and the Old and New Testament, no one was so blanked out that they did not understand that instrumental sounds (or virtual instrumental sounds) are harmful and in the Greek world they would not let certain classes into some form of instrumental performance (never quite musical).


 
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Roncar
(no login)
98.81.67.48

Eyes On Path

April 20 2011, 6:22 PM 

Ken, I'm not one to be nosy but I've noticed sometimes you login as "Sublett" and sometimes as "Sublet". I've often thought no one man is capable of writing as much as you do. Anagram checks were negative. Perhaps you are tag teaming with someone else? I've got my eyes on you (y'all). happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.38

key slipped:

April 24 2011, 12:02 AM 

In Grandma's Bible it is Sublette. On the manifest of the ship it is Soblet. So, pick one.

I have upgraded my post on the Personification of Father, Son and Spirit: remember that after Jesus made it perfectly clear He warned about proverbs to fool the foolish.

http://www.piney.com/HsPersonif2.html

I have also been doing some more searching to prove that after Jesus Christ Who returned at Pentecost and "shed forth what you see and hear" He continued to guide the Apostles as The Holy Spirit. He was changed into His post-resurrection body but He is still Jesus of Nazareth. Those who "hear" spirits and deny the Father-Son Relationship as Anti-Christs.

For that matter Christ in Jeremiah 23 defines those who make up their own songs and sermons as blaspheming. They cannot find the CENI because they do not have A holy spirit as a result of baptism. Because they are fleecing the Widows they can't tolerate not just teaching the Free Water of the Word.

"The Spirit is sometimes personified in the Bible, as in John 16:7-8, and this has led many to believe that it is a person. They do so because they do not take into account an idiom of the original Greek language. In Greek, inanimate objects which in English would be couched in the neuter gender, are given a masculine or feminine gender, if those objects are identified with any particular individual. ' For example, a chair is described as "it" in English, because it is neuter, being neither masculine nor feminine.

But in Greek that chair can be identified with its owner. If it belongs to me, the chair is described as he; if it belongs to my wife, as she.

"This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the Godhead were called personae (faces or countenances): The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona.

Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.

Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person,
with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking...

but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)


The term The Holy Spirit which was Jesus Christ guiding the apostles into all truth almost evaporates as each Apostle finished their PART of the finally perfected eye-- and ear-- witness of the risen Jesus. Thereafter the absolute relationship is stated dozens of times as:

One God the Father
One Many Jesus of Nazareth whom God made to be both Lord and Christ.

There is only ONE God the Father and
One Mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus.

I have collected more of these absolutely clear statements the scholars cannot read.

http://www.piney.com/Father.Son.Holy.Spirit.Trinity.html

Those who hear a spirit "beyond the sacred pages" will hurt you if you post clear Bible passages.



 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.14.31

Re: Eyes On Path

April 24 2011, 8:35 AM 

How about those anagrams?

Here are some examples: Rocnar, Roncar, Rancor. wink.gif

 
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Roncar
(no login)
98.81.69.210

Re: Eyes On Path

April 24 2011, 4:14 PM 

Three brothers, three names, it's not that hard to figure out, Dr. Crump (aka Cootum). happy.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.245.91

Re: Eyes On Path

April 24 2011, 7:05 PM 

Three separate, individual "brothers"? I really doubt that. More like three separate "personalities," all within the same body; hence, the Anagram Triplets. They're kinda like those entities in that story, The Three Faces of Eve. wink.gif

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.64.45

Deja vu

April 25 2011, 8:18 PM 

Dr. Crump, I know you are old enough but are you mature enough? Here it comes! Remember Santa Claus? The Easter Bunny? The Tooth Fairy? They were all real to my kids at one time. But there comes a time for the truth. I hated breaking the news to them as I do you. sad.gif

Rocnar, Roncar, and Rancor are anagram names from my gaming days on Star Wars Galaxies. They are the same person (me). I felt like you BELIEVED and it would be hard to disappoint you with the truth.

You started asking questions and I decided the time is now to "break the news". My friends call me "Rocky" and I hope you will too. happy.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.12.117

Re: Deja vu

April 26 2011, 9:35 PM 

Rocnar, Roncar, Rancor, and now Rocky. First he went by one of three names which I dubbed as the Anagram Triplets; now he's going by "Rocky." In other words, this guy is still playing games and chooses to hide behind some kind of alternate ID. A number of us here at CM use our real first AND last names, because we are secure in our beliefs and have nothing to hide. Those who are immature and insecure will continue to hide. Of course, that's "Rocky's" choice. wink.gif

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.94.216

Re: Deja vu

April 27 2011, 10:59 AM 

Dr. Crump, can you keep a secret? I am a covert operative of the SBC. They are not pleased with you. My mission is to keep you in check at all times. wink.gif

Is that what you expected? Sorry, Im just an average guy. I choose not to post my real name. You probably know it anyway.

I stumbled onto this site several years ago. I have learned a lot about religion by the various views presented here. I enjoy messing with you because you are so arrogant. If you dislike that I will quit. Just say the word "UNCLE". happy.gif

BTW, It has been my observation that using one's real name does NOT always make one a mature and secure person.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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