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February 22 2011 at 12:34 AM
Donnie Cruz  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
from IP address


Goodbyes are often sad occasions, especially if the partings are permanent. It is especially painful if we are saying goodbye to family members, close friends and comrades. If a goodbye is extended to friends and loved ones in Christ with whom we share strong bonds of love and fellowship, the sadness is mitigated. As the old hymn reminds us, "If we never meet again this side of heaven, we will meet on the beautiful shore." In the Father's great house, we together will spend the endless days of eternity.

But there is a parting involving Christians that is indeed painful. When one party has turned their back on Christ, his Church and his revealed Will; when they have embraced a false faith or worship, there comes a point at which the faithful disciple will find it necessary to say goodbye.

The proponents of the change agenda now wracking the Lord's precious church are forcing just this kind of separation. When fellow-disciples corrupt the faith and worship of God, they go onward and abide not in the teaching of Christ (II John 9-11). When that occurs; when admonitions are spurned; we must bid them farewell! The sadness is multiplied when those departing are close friends and family members.

When Christian schools choose the change agenda our ways must part. Even though we may have enjoyed strong ties in the past, we must bid them farewell lest we be partakers in their sinful rebellion to Christ (II John 11; Eph. 5:7). The same is true of other Christian projects, be they benevolent efforts, evangelistic projects, publishing efforts or journals.

When congregations where we once worshiped in blessed fellowship, turn away from God's word, they leave us no choice but to bid them goodbye. Hearts may be heavy, tears may fall, relationships may be broken, all because of man's sinful rebellion against the Lord, the head of the church. We bid them goodbye with a prayer that the eyes of their hearts may be enlightened, that their hard hearts may be broken and that they will soon come to repentance, before they are called to stand before the Judge of all.

Many of those who embrace the golden calf of change expect us to show them acceptance and warm fellowship, as if nothing has changed by their so doing. But in accepting the change agenda, they are showing disdain and lack of respect for our Christ, his church and His Word. So drastic are their changes that we cannot be true both to them and Christ. Since we no longer agree on the most important matters of life and eternity, how can we continue to walk with them (Amos 3:3). As they travel down the wide road that leads to destruction, our prayers go up on their behalf, that God will spare them till they, like the Prodigal Son, can come to their senses.

John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now


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(no login)


February 24 2011, 9:54 PM 

I find Mr. Waddey's post to be quite disturbing. He advocates a serious action but is vague about the cause.

Are we talking about hand clapping, praise teams, music, Baptist in laws, kitchens under same roof as Church building, one cuppers, contemporary services, etc?

I'm not making fun, just trying to understand.

What would justify such a reaction?


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(Login Donnie.Cruz)


February 27 2011, 2:25 AM 


According to science, "nothing happens without a cause."

I believe that the cause is obvious, if one carefully reads brother Waddey's article.

When instrumental music is incorporated into the assembly of New Testament saints, it is in opposition to the beliefs and practices of the first century church.

When baptism is taught only as a ritual, rather than as a requirement SO THAT one outside of Christ will be forgiven of his sins to become God's child, then, that teaching is contrary to New Testament specifications.

There are other examples. But they all point to changes to doctrine, beliefs and teachings of Christ and His apostles relative to the church, the body of Christ.

Let's review the emphases in these paragraphs:

  • "The proponents of the change agenda now wracking the Lord's precious church...."
  • "When Christian schools choose the change agenda...."
  • "When congregations where we once worshiped in blessed fellowship, turn away from God's word...."
  • "Many of those who embrace the golden calf of change...."
Those changes agents operating in the brotherhood!!! Those "change we can [NOT] believe in."

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

The Golden Calf REMOVED Grace without redemption.

February 27 2011, 5:04 PM 

Grace Centered will not let this be posted but my job is to WITNESS because all of the evidence proves that most minds cannot be changed as the FULFILL the patternism John prophesied about the end times in GREAT DETAILS.

Notice that SABBATH means REST from religious rituals and work outlaws even sending out ministers of God.

Exod 31:12 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
Exod 31:13 Speak thou also unto the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL,
....saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep:
....for it is a sign between me and you
....throughout your generations; [your revolution of time]
....that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

That doesn't sound like A DAY OF WORSHIP to me! The word KEEP is:

Exod 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you:
....every one that DEFILETH it shall surely be put to death:
....for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Defile is h2490 Play the flute, steal people's inheritance, pollute or prostitute.

8104. shamar, shaw-marĀ“; a primitive root; properly, to hedge about (as with thorns), i.e. guard; .

Keep in Latin: Custodio II. With the access. idea of hindering free motion, A. In gen., to hold something back, to preserve, keep: To prevent PLAY or Ludo cautiously, carefully: ut parce custoditeque ludebat! Plin. Ep. 5, 16, 3.

Plin. Ep. 5, 16, 3. how eagerly , how intellegenter lectitabat! when moderately custoditeque ludebat!

Ludo A. To sport, play with any thing, to practise as a pastime, amuse one's self with any thing, B. To sport, dally, wanton Esp.,to play on an instrument of music, to make or compose music or song: B. To sport, dally, wanton (cf. "amorous play,to imitate work, make believe work,

25And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:)

No big loss: just cool it: the parable of the LOCUSTS (Muses as dirty adulteresses) is that they DRIVE OUT the godly people without hurting them but they LULL the rest to sleep and then give them the STING OF DEATH. All recorded history would say that the singy, clappy, dancy guys and dolls are being PUNISHED and held captive with no way to escape if they have FALLEN into the instrument parable. Modern medicine agrees that music and motion is better than drugs to jack up the people into a HIGH ENERGY PITCH (boasts Chris Seidman) but when they come down from the HIGH they have to face the world having had their spirituality slowly bled away.

Parables to fool the professional foolers and all they can grab. We are not to mourn for the blind who CAN be led into the pit (hell) because God can make new people out of stones.

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Timothy Hall
(no login)


September 19 2012, 4:15 PM 

I've been reading some of this content. I grew up in the Churches of Christ. My father has preached in the Churches of Christ for 57 years.

I've heard him say it so many times. If we'd spend as much time leading people to Jesus as we do arguing...think how much good could be done. about you guys all investing your time and energies into something good..and not out there worrying about what every local congregation is doing. Get out of their business. If someone does something wrong, leave it up to God. Let Him handle it.

go find someone who needs Jesus and share Him with them.



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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


September 19 2012, 7:04 PM 

Glad you dropped in Tim: that is what we are doing. Hang in there and read stuff no preacher ever knew about the Bible. Hope we fill your need happy.gif

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(no login)


September 14 2012, 11:32 AM 

I would like to see more discussion on this article.

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(no login)


September 14 2012, 8:11 PM 

Go ahead and discuss.

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(no login)


September 17 2012, 11:07 AM 

"B", do you think John Waddey advocates a literal separation of a spouse, children, or close friends over such issues as IM in the worship service? What are your thoughts?

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


September 17 2012, 12:01 PM 

Rick Atchley mobilized the Stepford Wives to gang up on wives of those men who were opposing his viperizing. One well-known writer's wife divorced him. Others were told that they would have to choose between their families and instrumental music.

ALL of the imposers of instruments have CALCULATED that they can drive away up to half of the OWNERS and still recover by sucking in the silly seekers by the "ambivalent" gender persona CONFESSED by all singers who want to be popular.

So, your question cannot neuterize John's teaching whatever HE may or may not do. Why do YOU need to defend that persona?

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(no login)


September 17 2012, 12:55 PM 

Since Racnor wanted to see more discussion, then by all means, he should offer his views first.

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(no login)


September 17 2012, 4:00 PM 

"B", we are getting a real toad strangler today. I'm kinda feeling a little blue too. I think I'll que up some MTB. Blue Ridge Mountain Sky always makes me feel better. Have a good day happy.gif

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(no login)

Duty Calls

September 17 2012, 9:31 PM 

See y'all around Christmas. Ken, I hope you have a good Halloween. happy.gif

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Duty Calls

September 17 2012, 9:54 PM 

Are you going off to make the world safe for Islam?

I told people I joined the Navy to make the world safe for communism: and I darned near succeeded.

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Racnor (short timer)
(no login)

Re: Duty Calls

September 20 2012, 6:47 PM 

Ken, I was in the military many years ago. I am NOT in the military now. I am retired and work as a contractor part-time. I work long hours and sometimes I travel. I use military "lingo" sometimes but I am not trying to suggest I am active military. When I work I have little time for any thing else. I just wanted to make that clear.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


September 14 2012, 8:00 PM 

The worship of the golden calf involved musical idolatry: there is lots of literature defining the worship of Apis the real bull calf. Many imbalmed Apist have been found. This called rising up AGAINST god in Play: play means to sing, dance, play instruments and play with one another.

For that affront God removed the Covenant of Grace and imposed the Law of Moses because of this transgression. Perhaps it is not that musical idolatry is the sin which sentenced Israel to captivity and abandonment and "worship of the starry host." Maybe it is that they turn to musical idolatry BECAUSE there is no light in them.

Hebrews 6 indicates that people CAN fully understand the meaning of the CROSS and fully endorse it or maybe send their kids to college on that preaching. However, most of the changelings have been attacked from without and the use of flattery easily seduced them into a sin WITHOUT REDEMPTION.

The CROSS and WASHING had the purpose of REMOVING any propensity for trying to act up and think they could seduce a Spirit God. A baptized believer is a STUDENT and has no driving purpose than to be a Disciple commanded to teach and observe what Christ taught in the prophets and Jesus made more certain. THAT is the only way to MARK false teachers says Peter in 2 Peter 2.

2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

IT IS CERTAIN THAT THE FRUITY PEOPLE AS RHETORICIANS, SINGERS AND INSTRUMENT PLAYERS ARE SORCERERS AND IN NO SUCH EXAMPLE IS THERE ANY REDEMPTION. When they stir up that Spiritual anxiety and passion so strong that you become a BlogSimp spreading hate you know that you are recrucifying Christ.

[linked image]
[linked image]

We KNOW there there will be no repentance: however, it is our duty to witness to the world.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Sep 14, 2012 8:01 PM

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Tim Hall
(Login timhall60)

WOW Please consider

September 19 2012, 4:31 PM 

I grew up in the Churches of Christ. My father has preached for 57 years in the Churches of Christ. I grew up listening to him say, "we sure spend alot of time arguing. Imagine how the Church would grow if we'd put that time and energy into Church growth!"

Well...maybe my 78 year old father is right! If you guys (everyone) would spend the time you use writing on this site, maintaining this site, criticizing other....and put that time into telling others about Jesus.. What would be the result?? Changed Lives!

As for what other congregations are doing, leave it up God to determine how they should be handled. Whether they are progressive or conservative (there are troublemakers in BOTH) just let God handle it and let's get busy teaching people about Jesus.

thanks folks!


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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: WOW Please consider

September 19 2012, 6:58 PM 

And what are we to do when they lie, cheat and steal the church houses of widows and break up families? If no one REPROVES (a direct command) those who deliberately sow discord because "a spirit" told them to so "we gonna save more souls" would that help or hinder your understanding of Scripture? Music in fact derives from "mysteries" meaning to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter."

Why not tell the ones who LIE AND STEAL about "legalistic conservatives" and ANTI-instrumentalists to JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE instead of "infiltrating and diverting" their property an sowing massive discord? With all respect to your father and you, you have never been allowed to read the SPIRITUAL message to the future church in the Prophets by the Spirit OF Christ and the prophecies made more certain by Jesus and left as eye-- and ear--witness MEMORIES by the Apostles.

Ezekiel 33:2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people,
and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land,
.....if the people of the land take a man of their coasts,
.....and set him for their watchman:
Ezekiel 33:3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
Ezekiel 33:4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning;
.....if the sword come, and take him away,
.....his blood shall be upon his own head.
Ezekiel 33:5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning;
.....his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come,
.....and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned;
.....if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity;
.....but his blood will I require at the watchmans hand.
Ezekiel 33:7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel;
.....therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

The SPECIFIC thing Christ (the Rock) warned everyone against is:

Ezekiel 33:27 Say thou thus unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely they that are in the wastes shall fall by the sword, and him that is in the open field will I give to the beasts to be devoured, and they that be in the forts and in the caves shall die of the pestilence.

The Beastie in Latin and the Beast in Revelation is "a new style of singing and drama."

Ezekiel 33:28 For I will lay the land most desolate, and the pomp of her strength shall cease; and the mountains of Israel shall be desolate, that none shall pass through.
Ezekiel 33:29 Then shall they know that I am the LORD, when I have laid the land most desolate because of all their abominations which they have committed.

Ezekiel 33:30 Also, thou son of man,
.....the children of thy people still are talking against thee by the walls and in the doors of the houses,
.....and speak one to another, every one to his brother, saying,
.....Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth from the LORD.
Ezekiel 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh,
.....and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words,
.........but they will not do them:
.....for with their mouth they shew much love,
........but their heart goeth after their covetousness.
Ezekiel 33:32 And, lo, thou art unto them a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice,
.....and can play well on an instrument:
.........for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
Ezekiel 33:33 And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,)
.....then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: WOW Please consider

September 19 2012, 7:01 PM 

At 82 I would probably be in a nursing home.

Why is teaching the TEXT without additions and free of charge any less valuable than preaching?

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(no login)

Re: WOW Please consider

September 19 2012, 8:21 PM 

In other words, Tim is saying that if you know of people and churches who are advocating unscriptural doctrines, say and do nothing; it's none of anyone else's business. Sounds like Tim is also implying we should ignore Romans 16:17.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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