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The Commandments of m(K)en

March 9 2011 at 11:08 AM
Fred Whaley  (no login)
from IP address 173.162.22.85

Fred is beyond surprised that Ken teaches that it is wrong to sing EVEN VOCALLY to God. Under the title......"When A Congregation Elects To Use Instruments Of Music In Its Worship" Ken states on March 8, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. in his concluding paragraph for the first sentence........"It was unlawful for the godly people to make vocal or instrumental rejoicing which was a style making School of the Word impossible."

Ken is saying it is unlawful for godly people to make VOCAL rejoicing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken is a false teacher! He is teaching the commandments of m(K)en!

There are numerous Scriptures that say to sing to God!

Every church Fred knows of in America and in the entire world sing to God!

Maybe............JUST MAYBE...........KEN is wrong and not EVERYONE ELSE in the Christian world.

Folks beware of the commandments of Ken!!!!

Folks beware of the false teachers here at Concerned Members!!!!

I love the Church of Christ but the Church of Christ does not teach that it is wrong to sing vocally to God - just Ken (and maybe his cohorts Dr. Crump and Donnie Cruz).

Fred Whaley

 
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AuthorReply
Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

What's the Excuse This Time?

March 9 2011, 11:59 AM 

Donnie,
This is PROOF beyond proof of what I contended with you a while back. I said the same thing about Ken, and you stood by his false teachings. Ken DOES teach that vocal AND instrumental music is wrong. He makes sure that you understand that a cappela is a part of music that Ken falsely claim is wrong. Ken's false teaching centers on ANY music, including vocal ONLY, as being sinful. You still on board with this sinking ship?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: What's the Excuse This Time?

March 9 2011, 12:34 PM 

Dave,

I still stand by what I have said that the issue, your issue (not his), regarding "singing" is taken out of context. You will need to read his writings in entirety to grasp the message he is trying to purport. Remember that he is very thorough and detailed. He is very research-oriented and extremely knowledgeable of historical facts relative to musical idolatry, pagan ritualism and the modern holy entertainment industry.

I know he will respond to this thread -- give him time.

For sure, he will emphasize to the reader that singing devoid of that which teaches and admonishes one another serves no purpose in letting "the word of Christ dwell in your richly."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.12

Back to Basics

March 9 2011, 12:19 PM 

Find us a direct command of Jesus to sing as ceremonial legalism to do the ACT as opposed to TEACHING and COMFORTING "with Scripture."

The passages that include "singing" has nothing to do with a loud "worship team standing in the holy place" singing their own gender-ambivalent compositions doing MUSIC: the word music or symphonia means UNISON and not in sync with the praise leader. The clear command from the wilderness onward that the church collected had only ONE role: teach the Word of Christ in the prophets and apostles concerning the FOUNDATION and function of the church. You changelings have no intention of speaking "that which is written for your learning with one mind and ONE MOUTH." So, let's begin by changing Purpose Drivning Church.

John 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled (synagogued)for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

The purpose driven church was for Jesus to SAITH to us:
Jesus did not "sing" in any tunful sense sinc Christ had outlawed it for the Qahal or Church of Christ in the wilderness and there is not a single approved example of the synagogue ever singing: The cursed Levites did that quarantined behind closed doors in Jerusalem.

John 20:26 ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

We have the command of Christ in the wilderness, His participating in the Jewish synagogue, and here are TWO First Day assemblies in sequence with NOTHING but instruction.

They did not SING tunefully: if the had learned Psalms they cantillated but there is no command, example or inference not was "melody as tunefulness" even known. You see, even Silly Sally had grown up learning Scripture at the synagogue.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

They SYNAGOGUED (no loud noises)

G4905 sunerchomai soon-er'-khom-ahee From G4862 and G2064 ; to convene, depart in company with, associate with, or (specifically) cohabit (conjugally):accompany, assemble (with), come (together), come (company, go) with, resort.

Acts 10:27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together. (g4905)

Acts 14 27 And when they were come, and had gathered (g4863 Sunago) the church (Ekklesia) together (g4863 Sunago) , they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.


G4863 sunag soon-ag'-o From G4862 and G71 ; to lead together, that is, collect or convene; specifically to entertain (hospitably):+ accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in.

G4897 suneiserchomai soon-ice-er'-khom-ahee From G4862 and G1525 ; to enter in company with:go in with, go with into.

G4864 sunagg soon-ag-o-gay' From (the reduplicated form of) G4863 ; an assemblage of persons; specifically a Jewish synagogue (the meeting or the place); by analogy a Christian church:assembly, congregation, synagogue.

You have to get back to commanded CERTITUDES in order to break the knees of those who see MUSIC as holy entertianment THE PURPOSE DRIVING their institutes which cannot be A Church of Christ. Then, if you sing you will not INTENTIONALLY use that form Jesus called "laded burdens" (songs) and Paul outlawed as self-pleasure.

Find a direct, imperative command to SING as an act of worship which means to "fall on your face in fear and trembling."

Romans 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.12

No "sanging" in the School of Christ

March 9 2011, 12:34 PM 

When people "sang" in the Greek sense of the word it has to do with enchanting or charming as in "charming your pants off to pick your pocket."

This was loud screaming and yelling something like CCM where the boylings seem like they have something caught in a vise. I told you that Paul commanded that we use that which is written with one mind and one mouth. You will find no exception in the Bible or recorded history.

Singing in the Jewish sense was cantillation: since none of the commanded text is metrical; the "music" word is connected to emphasis marks and a rhymic style. The "singing" in the charismatic sense is identified by musicologists as derived from voodoo and marked black music dominating the master's slaves he THOUGHT were Methodists. The Stoneites addopted the Shouting Methodists as an act of worship: CCM is shouthing which is intended to stroke all of your pleasure centers so they can steal the widown's purse.

Hymnody developed systematically, however, only after the emperor Constantine legalized Christianity (AD 313); and it flourished earliest in Syria, where the practice was possibly taken over from the singing by Gnostics and Manichaeans of hymns imitating the psalms. The Byzantine Church adopted the practice; in its liturgy, hymns maintain a much more prominent place than in the Latin liturgy; and Byzantine hymnody developed complex types such as the kanon and kontakion (qq.v.; see also Byzantine chant). Saint Ephraem--a 4th-century Mesopotamian deacon, poet, and hymnist--has been called the "father of Christian hymnody." Britannica Online

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/279350/hymn

This is not GCMF: differences of opinion is THE meaning of DIALOG which Paul did until midnite: he did NOT preach until midnight out of his head.

1Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Peter 4:4 ¶ Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 67.142.130.12 on Mar 9, 2011 12:45 PM


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.240.211.245

Re: The Commandments of m(K)en

March 9 2011, 12:33 PM 

We need not give much attention to the ravings of Fred, a man who thinks he can "reform" people by talking like Elmer Fudd. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.27

What IS trumps I THINK

March 9 2011, 1:28 PM 

Ken deals what IS the meaning of IS is: it doesn't matter what the massed multitudes do because Jesus invited the TWOS AND THREES to come outside the camp, rest and LEARN OF ME. Christ commanded that for the Church of Christ as synagogue in the wilderness. There is surely a radical disconnect between the historic Church of Christ and the denominational preachers wearing the MASK of Church of Christ.

The multitude will be INSIDE THE CAMP which includes the Agora or Marketplace where Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers. Music by the way almost DEMANDS dancing where the body gyrates in sync with the changing. Here is some more HISTORIC meaning of what IS the meaning of IS: you have to decide how fare grace will let you stray from the TEACHING and COMFORTING role: you know of no church which TEACHES that which is written and does not DISCOMFORT with everyone working their little pin heads off trying to "keep up" and make my part the loudest: the seven spirits to rest on Christ the branch (Isa 11) says God does NOT judge by what He SEES or HEARS so as in Corinth you are just "speaking into the air."

Swiss, and later, French, English, and Scottish Calvinism promoted the singing of metrical translations of the psalter (see psalmody), austerely set for unaccompanied unison singing . English and Scottish Protestantism admitted only the singing of psalms. English metrical psalms were set to tunes adapted from the French and Genevan psalters. These were fairly complex melodies written on French metres. The English psalter used only a few metres, and the custom of singing each psalm to its proper tune was soon replaced by the use of a few common tunes . The common metre 8, 6, 8, 6 (the numbers give the number of syllables in each line), a form of English ballad metre, remains the archetypal English hymn metre.

Note: Alexander Campbell's song book allowed only 5 melodies.

The principal impetus to English hymnody came in the late 17th century from the Independent (Congregationalist) hymn writer Isaac Watts (Hymns and Spiritual Songs; 170519). The evangelical revival of the mid-18th century under John and Charles Wesley, founders of Methodism, finally established hymnody in England and America. Charles Wesleys many poems use a variety of experimental metres, and John Wesleys translations introduced many of the finest German hymns. The Wesleys also adopted many German tunes, and their later editions contain much music in the style of Handel.

The Church of England accepted hymn singing officially only in 1820 , following a controversy arising from the singing of hymns at a Sheffield church. The Oxford (High Church) Movement, begun in 1833, stimulated new compositions, translations of medieval hymns, and use of plainsong melodies. The present era of English hymnody dates from the publication of Hymns Ancient and Modern (1861; last rev. ed., 1950), characterized by austerity of style, conformity to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, and the setting of each hymn to its proper tune.


The Church of England voted to REMOVE the organ but was vetoed by Queen Elizabath--the head of the church--because the organ was part of the national ceremonial pomp Just as in Jerusalem.

So people gonna do what people gonna do: just don't call yourself a New Testament Church of Christ.

 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: What IS trumps I THINK

March 9 2011, 2:37 PM 

KEN'S WORDS --

The multitude will be INSIDE THE CAMP which includes the Agora or Marketplace where Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers. Music by the way almost DEMANDS dancing where the body gyrates in sync with the changing. Here is some more HISTORIC meaning of what IS the meaning of IS: you have to decide how fare grace will let you stray from the TEACHING and COMFORTING role: you know of no church which TEACHES that which is written and does not DISCOMFORT with everyone working their little pin heads off trying to "keep up" and make my part the loudest: the seven spirits to rest on Christ the branch (Isa 11) says God does NOT judge by what He SEES or HEARS so as in Corinth you are just "speaking into the air."


Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - "singers" are consigned to the marketplace. [not just pipers]

Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - you know of "no church" which teaches that which is written. [EVERYONE is wrong including the a cappella churches]

Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - trying to keep up and make "my part the loudest." [referencing 4-part harmony of the a cappella style of singing/worship]

Yes Ken always covers MUSIC DANCERS and SEX but ALMOST always includes SINGING and/or VOCAL in his statements as well.


wink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gif
Ken -- here is your opportunity to "SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT" -- Is a cappella singing acceptable to God in a worship assembly?

Yes? No?

Fred Whaley

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

The Idolatry, Musical Idolatry and Dancing Connection

March 9 2011, 9:41 PM 

Fred (and Dave [per Fred Whaley]), pay attention to music history and Scripture.

(1) Music history reveals that "music ... almost DEMANDS dancing [and clapping] where the body gyrates in sync" with the tempo and/or change of tempo of the music.

(2) Scripture plainly reveals that dancing and musical instruments and even idolatry are connected in many instances. Here are a few of several passages in Scripture:

  • And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. (Exo. 15:20)

  • And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount. (Exo. 32:19)

  • And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music. (I Sam. 18:6)

  • Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. (Psalm 149:3)

  • Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (Psalm 150:4)

  • And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart. (I Chron. 15:29)

  • Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands? (I Sam. 29:5)
So, Fred and Dave, you haven't learned yet that you are taking messages out of context.

Fred and Dave, does your congregation use musical devices in the assembly? If so, yours must be a different "Church of Christ" -- not the one that the New Testament speaks of.

It not, then, what are you doing being in that congregation that respects God's truth? You must have acquired your belief from the change agents.

Furthermore, Fred and Dave, does your congregation practice "dancing"? If not, you are NOT in compliance with YOUR doctrine of music and dancing.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.171.0.140

Gyrating is dancing.

March 9 2011, 10:03 PM 

People WANT to dance when music plays: a very young infant will move their body and smile when you play music or clap. It is a natural instinct. The production of endorphins as a result of music has been likened to hearing a saber toothed tiger behind you. The response is a startle reflex which is not just a childhood response.

This sets you in motion for doing something and when you discover that the threat is real you respond with a happy smile.

A lady at GCMF wants to REVEL with God: that's the moving to music word. The praise teams use EXTERNAL MEANS (witchcraft) to get the ENERGY LEVEL UP and getting everyone moving ins SUMPHONIA. This bumping and grinding in step with the "worship minister" is HIS forcing you into his embrace. The body moves and bounces and sways and the arms float up. This is in fact dancing by people not yet ready to "go all the way."

This is not something that happens in congregational singing unless you have a jumpity song leader. Using external forces to affect a mind change IS the meaning of witchcraft or sorcery. When David prophesied with harps the word is "soothsaying."

Soothsayig is also defined as prophesying. In the non-speaking the word sense, the people pretend that their message comes from God. christ defines this as blasphemy.

Belteshazzar plays Daniel's future brother in "spirit, and knowledge, and understanding, interpreting of dreams, and shewing of hard sentences, and dissolving of doubts." Daniel 5:12.[3] A soothsaying is the result of interpreting these different things into an understanding that disolves the reader's doubts

 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: The Commandments of m(K)en

March 9 2011, 1:54 PM 

Your sentence is 32.674% twue doc. sad.gif

Examples for 100% accuracy:

1) We need to give much attention to the statements of Fred, a man who is reforming people by talking like Elmer Fudd. wink.gif

2) We need not give much attention to the teachings of Ken, a man who thinks he can "reform" people by teaching commandments of men.

Fwed Whaley

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: The Commandments of m(K)en

March 9 2011, 2:12 PM 

Fred,

Be careful. You're teaching that which the Scripture commands NOT. You just don't know it. Or, you know it but you command it anyway.

 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: The Commandments of m(K)en

March 9 2011, 2:47 PM 

Fred IS obeying Scripture. Read Romans 16:16-17

"Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings. I urge YOU, BROTHERS, to watch out [KJV says to 'MARK'] for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THE TEACHING YOU HAVE LEARNED. Keep away from them."

Fred as a Christian brother is marking Ken for teaching that which is contrary to what the church of Christ teaches from the Apostolic writings in the New Testament. Paul exhorts us to SING and make melody in our heart to the Lord. Ken says that "vocal" SINGING is not authorized.

Out of fairness Fred has provided him an opportunity below to clear the air if there is some mistake in interpreting his words.

Fred Whaley

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Fred Is Obeying His Own Command

March 9 2011, 10:01 PM 

Fred,

You haven't told us the name of your congregation. Are you ashamed? Are you afraid for us to find out that your own congregation, after all, is in agreement with all the other churches of Christ and Scripture by not allowing PLAYING [of musical devices] in the assembly?

And here you are advocating what THE CHANGE AGENTS have taught YOU regarding instrumental music and even "dancing with God" or "dancing for the Lord."

The churches of Christ are MARKING YOU for teaching that which the Holy Scripture DOES NOT.

There is nothing wrong with the New Testament and what it teaches and commands. There is something wrong with your teaching and your command that is not found in God's truth.

 
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Scotty
(no login)
166.205.15.48

Turks in spirit

March 10 2011, 1:52 PM 

Fred,

I commend your efforts to shine the light on Ken and his supporters. His website and this one reminds me of the defense by the 16th century martyr, Michael Sattler. He said, "We must not defend ourselves against the Turks and others of our persecutors, but are to beseech God with earnest prayer to repel and resist them. But that I said, that if warring were right, I would rather take the field against the so-called Christians, who persecute, apprehend and kill pious Christians, than against the Turks, was for this reason: The Turk is a true Turk, knows nothing of the Christian faith; and is a Turk after the flesh; but you, who would be Christians, and who make your boast of Christ, persecute the pious witnesses of Christ, and are Turks after the spirit."

Let us be Christians in the faith and in the spirit, and not Turks who persecute those who follow Christ.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

"Shine the Light": Just What Do You Mean?

March 10 2011, 3:13 PM 

Scotty,

"Let us be Christians in the faith," you say. We all strive to do just that -- that includes you, Fred and me.

But that is not the issue in discussing doctrinal differences even among members of the church. Neither is "love." In fact, agape love has nothing to do with "emotional" affection or posting messages. Rather, love has to do with keeping God's commandments and serving our neighbors.

That leaves us with the DIFFERENCE in how we RESPECT God's authority over matters that relate to His commandments and specifications.

So, if you are willing to join in discussing matters about the use or playing of musical devices in the assembly of New Testament saints, please feel free to do so.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.27

Sowing of discord

March 9 2011, 2:04 PM 

When the men lie, cheat and steal to make a place in the mainstream for their singy-clappys who both enchant and repulse, they always try to set brother againsnt brother and even family against family: "you may have to choose between instrumental music and your family." Even the Stepford sisters step in and enable a wife to support her as she divorces her husband. It is SOoooo prophetic.

That is the MARK that people KNOW they are defeated but based on all recorded evidence when they have been seduced away from the Living Word by mixed-sex choirs, wearing of apparel (clergy) and instrumental music they will always be seduced into sexual and homosexual relationships (Romans 1 speaking of Mount Sinai) even if it is VIRTUAL sex as the musicators make them move in sumphonia and even boast of it being a sexual-like climax with the spirit.

Donnie can tell you that Madison is a DIVIDED and divisive congregation with the two styles of singing as a visual aid. There is nothing in church history outside of the charismatics line the end-time Babylon mother of harlots (Rev 17) using the lusted after fruits (Rev 18) as speakers, singers and instrument players John calls SORCERERS.

http://www.piney.com/Romans.1.html

The same ones not permitted to read black text on brown paper cannot read Paul's use of the word faith which allows them to post weasel words about baptism but clearly denying the prophecies of Christ and the direct commands of Jesus: strong delusions means lying wonders which means

Lying Wonders: -Teratourg-eô, A. WORK wonders, pseudôsti Sch.Pi.I.7(6).13.

Lying is -Pseudes 2. fiction (opposite logos, historic
- Muthos
2. fiction (Opposite logos, historic truth)

logos , o(, verbal noun of leg&omacr; (B), with senses corresponding to leg&omacr; (B) II and III (on the various senses of the word v. Opposite Pathos or peacher's tales
Opposite epag&omacr;g-&emacr; , 2. bringing in to one's aid, introduction, 4. allurement, enticement b. incantation, spell, leading away into captivity.

Aristot. Rh. 3.6.3 [3] Use metaphors and epithets by way of illustration, taking care, however, to avoid what is too poetical. Aristot. Rh. 3.6.7 Poets also make use of this in inventing words, as a melody "without strings" or "without the lyre"; for they employ epithets from negations, a course which is approved in proportional metaphors, as for instance, to say that tNhe sound of the trumpet is a melody without the lyre.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.27

No reform possible

March 9 2011, 2:13 PM 

Ken has NO burden to REFORM or CONVERT: all of the recorded evidence proves that when you make the "music means spirit at worship connection" you have fallen and will never get up.

My job is to witness: Revelation 18 proves that when the false preachers, singers and instrument players cast Christ out of their public confession, they are REMOVED by Christ Who visited for the last time to remove all of the LAMPS. Instruments are most often in the Bible used as the MARK of those who tell God "shut your mouth." Amos 5; Isaiah 5; Job 21 and coming to a Circe near you.

Those who lie and cheat about all of the "instrument" passages they can connect CANNOT read the context and being sent strong delusions CANNOT believe the truth because Christ FORCES them to believe their own lies so that the burning has already begun by their own lips:

An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire. Proverbs 16:27

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.27

Why people CRY OUT in terminal agony!

March 9 2011, 3:48 PM 

The hireling-changelings make no attempt to understand the Word of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles because, as proven by most forums, people do not WANT to hear from God: that is the MARK of music.

They are utterly blind to the fact that Jesus said that "doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge" and that Scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites are slick speakers, singers and instrument players.

Nor can they read that there wil be NO Canannite (trader) in the house of God: no counters of podiums, no takers of shekels, no wise sophists etal in The Church of Christ. Instruments according to Christ in Isaiah 30 is proof that He has begun driving them into hell with the sounds of wind, string and percussion instruments: these were brought into the garden of Eden as "the singing and harp playing prostitute.

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe?
....where is the disputer of this world?
....hath not God made foolish [moronic] the wisdom of this world?


Scribe: Grammatikos a scholar 2. one who occupies himself with literary texts, grammarian, 3. concerned with textual criticism, exêgêsis similar to hermeneuma

D.S. 2.29 ; II. explanation, interpretation, Nomos experts in the laws or traditions.
often of the forms of melody used by the muses to work sorcery.

Paul is commenting on Christ in the prophets ALL of whom repudiate the appeal to the Levites tasked to worship the starry host on their way to the Lake of Fire:

The captain of fifty, and the honourable man, and the counsellor, and the cunning artificer, and the eloquent orator. Isa 3:3

The COUNSELLORS you hire by the droves to replace the vocational deacons.

consilia-rius , a, um, adj. [consilium]
II. Esp.
A. T. t., an assessor, aid in a court of justice, Suet. Tib. 55; id. Claud. 12.--
B. Of the augur as the interpreter of the divine will: consiliarius atque administer Jovis, Cic. Leg. 3, 19, 43

The WISE artificer is:

spo , b. [select] To suggest, be inspired by: quia non sapis ea quae Dei sunt, Vulg. Matt. 16, 23; id. Marc. 8, 33.

sophos , , on, Margites Fr.2; but in this sense mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. E.IT1238 (lyr.), cf. Ar.Ra.896 (lyr.), also en oinois, kithara, E. IT662, 1238 (lyr.)


The CHILDREN who want weeping widows to die or move away are:

And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them. Isa 3:4

Consistent with ALL recorded history, religious music is the realm of the gender benders.

ef-femno , vi, tum, 1, v. a. femina, II. Trop., to make womanish, effeminate, to enervate:
effeminata et enervis compositio, Quint. 9, 4, 142; cf. id. 1, 8, 2; 2, 5, 10 al.
fin.Sup.: animi languor, Q. Cic. ap. Cic. Fam. 16, 27. B. In mal. part., that submits to unnatural lust: pathicus, Suet. Aug. 68; Auct. Priap. 58, 2; Vulg. 3 Reg. 14, 24 al.Adv.: effmnte ,


This is the meaning of Grace as Charis: "In an erotic sense giving favors to another male."

Recorded in the literature not available to the Phds.

Cic. Planc. 35.86 The basest and most infamous consuls in the memory of man,as both the beginning of their conduct and as their recent termination of those affairs, show them to have been, (one of whom lost his army, and the other sold it,)having bought their provinces, had deserted the senate, and the republic, and all good men.

When no one knew what were the feelings of those men who by means of their armies, and their arms, and their riches,
....were the most powerful men in the state,
....then that voice, rendered insane by its infamous debaucheries,
....made effeminate by its attendance on holy altars,
.... kept crying out in a most ferocious manner
....that both these men and the consuls were acting in concert with him.

Needy men were armed against the rich, abandoned men against the good, slaves against their masters.


And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable. Isa 3:5


tumultuor , tus, 1, I. v. dep. n. [tumultus], to make a bustle or disturbance, to be in great agitation or confusion, be in an uproar, raise a tumult:
II. Esp. of oratory, to storm, rant, talk at random,


Chris Seidman reviewed at New Wineskins boasts about how instruments made the ENERGY LEVEL rise up. That is the LADED BURDEN Jesus died to remove.

 
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Fred Whaley
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173.162.22.85

Re: Why people CRY OUT in terminal agony!

March 9 2011, 4:23 PM 

Consistent with ALL recorded history, religious music is the realm of the gender benders.

ef-femno , vi, tum, 1, v. a. femina, II. Trop., to make womanish, effeminate, to enervate:
effeminata et enervis compositio, Quint. 9, 4, 142; cf. id. 1, 8, 2; 2, 5, 10 al.
fin.Sup.: animi languor, Q. Cic. ap. Cic. Fam. 16, 27. B. In mal. part., that submits to unnatural lust: pathicus, Suet. Aug. 68; Auct. Priap. 58, 2; Vulg. 3 Reg. 14, 24 al.Adv.: effmnte ,

This is the meaning of Grace as Charis: "In an erotic sense giving favors to another male."

Recorded in the literature not available to the Phds.

Cic. Planc. 35.86 The basest and most infamous consuls in the memory of man,as both the beginning of their conduct and as their recent termination of those affairs, show them to have been, (one of whom lost his army, and the other sold it,)having bought their provinces, had deserted the senate, and the republic, and all good men.




Ken -- Fred's most disturbed of the non-biblical portion above is -- This is the meaning of Grace as Charis: "In an erotic sense giving favors to another male." Fred has never heard this teaching on grace before. Maybe you could teach this material on music to a teenage class at your local church?

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Ken -- here is opportunity NUMBER TWO to "SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT" -- Is a cappella singing acceptable to God in a worship assembly?

Yes? No?

Fred Whaley

 
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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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