Asking too much?
|May 7 2011, 11:33 PM |
It may be asking too much for people who have been patterned by sermons as opposed to the text and singing songs calculated to turn you into to women to understand.,
I know of no scholar or preacher who can read the black text on white paper and NOT see what they have always been taught:
Maybe someone would like to twist that?
|May 8 2011, 12:31 PM |
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Entertain Us Some More
|May 8 2011, 8:17 AM |
Dave, what's that voodoo chant you use against us that really marks you as a radical, self-righteous fanatic? Oh yeah, it's "You are cursed!" ZOWIE! That "do" have a ring to it!
Say that again, really put some ZING into it, and entertain us some more. Only do it with special effects. Let's see, we would need an echo chamber and a device that would transform your voice into a really DEEP, double bass. Then you could SHINE and come out with:
YOU (you you)...ARE (are are)...CUUURRRSSSSSSSEDUH (duh duh)!!!
A fierce, demonic "growl" with some smoke and flames added would put the icing on the cake.
Would that suit you, Dave? So come on! Do it again for us and really
entertain us with that voodoo hoodoo that you do!
Re: Entertain Us Some More
|May 8 2011, 10:49 PM |
Please accept this in love and concern. I humbly suggest that your public remarks are foul and out of place. The Lord's church is sacred and we as members of the church are to use speech that is holy and edifying. Ephesians 5:3-4 reads, "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, FOOLISH TALK OR COARSE JOKING, which are OUT OF PLACE, but rather thanksgiving." Likewise, Ephesians 4:29 states, "Do not let ANY UNWHOLESOME TALK come out of your mouths, but ONLY WHAT IS HELPFUL FOR BUILDING UP OTHERS according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen."
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: Entertain Us Some More
|May 9 2011, 9:10 AM |
Sonny, a "Christian" does anything BUT build up and edify others when he hurls hateful words such as "You are cursed!" and "You don't love the Lord's church" because others do not agree with him. A "Christian" who claims to love the Lord's church yet persistently posts hateful messages against those with whom he disagrees is a liar according to 1 John 4:20. If it gives you peace of mind to "rebuke" me, then go ahead. But if you are really honest and seek a well-rounded board, direct your rebukes also to Dave, for his conduct here has been anything but "saintly."
Of course, the bottom line is that if you don't like what you see here, you are quite free to go somewhere else.
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: Entertain Us Some More
|May 9 2011, 9:54 AM |
Sonny mentioned Eph. 5:3-4. Verse 4 says, "Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving" (KJV).
That got me to thinking. The sermons of many postmodern preachers are crammed with jokes, amusing anecdotes, and much LEVITY that keep the audience in stitches. Yet are those comical preachers rebuked? Of course not! There wouldn't be much left of their congregations if preachers stuck to somber, serious sermons all the time. Nevertheless, I think Sonny should begin a campaign to reform the comical preachers of this world. Tell them to "get serious," stop the yuck-yucking, and persent their sermons without a hint of levity.
Are you up for that, Sonny, or do you think that "levity" in the pulpit is acceptable and totally different from "levity" on Internet message boards? Mind you, the passage above doesn't split "levity" into that which is acceptable or unacceptable. The passage clearly indicates that there should be NO LEVITY.
Have At It!
|May 8 2011, 10:23 PM |
Donnie, the last response by YOUR brother shows why not many will not even attempt to give a response here at concerned. I also have realized a long time ago that is pretty much the way you guys want it here. You like it without rebuttal. If you get rebuttal, and it sounds like it may be resemble the Truth, you ignore it or become hostile. You like telling them what they REALLY said, or what you want them to say. The Jewish Pharisees and Saducees were the same. They didn't want anyone rocking their boat or questioning their beliefs with some so-called Truth, even if it was by the Son of God. As long as they could buy their way to heaven with their tithing, praying in public, and having those flogged anyone who opposed them, then they were most content. I know it is hard for you three to believe, but Jesus infuriated these Jewish leaders at every turn. Jesus didn't want to play their games, just as many that have come here to concerned tire quickly of the cloak and dagger games that you men present. Just because you don't like someone rocking your boat. Jesus changed it all from ceremonial to spiritual. Other than not being Jews, you three still represent the Pharisees well today. Just like you, the Pharisees didn't care for the Truth. You want what you want, instead of what God would have.
Well.....have at it.
The Questions Were Simple
|May 9 2011, 4:29 AM |
I was very seriously and sincerely asking you those questions for clarification. You'd been accusing me of misquoting your stance on using musical instruments in the assembly of saints.
You'd gone so far as calling me a liar and as a result, sinning, sinning "against the Lord's church" and in need of repentance; cursed; etc. -- strongly suggesting that YOU were/are not any of the above.
You may be correct that after all the messages you've posted, I have misunderstood your viewpoints--maybe one or two or possibly all of your opinions. That's why I have broken down my questions so that I may know exactly where I have misunderstood you. Let me point out--and I believe it's common knowledge--that when Peter misunderstands Paul, it doesn't mean that Peter is a liar, or vice versa. It is only a misunderstanding; it is not lying.
It is possible that I have misunderstood your viewpoints. So, I need you to help me out here. If you need to qualify your choice of YES or NO, please do not hesitate to explain in detail if needed. You can straighten me out with a simple YES [it is truth] or NO [it is a lie] to each of the following:
[YES/NO] ____ when YOU said that God approves/authorizes IM;
[YES/NO] ____ when YOU said that God is pleased with musical devices in praise;
[YES/NO] ____ when YOU said that we emulate David for playing instruments;
[YES/NO] ____ when YOU said that PA equates with IM, therefore, both are OK;
[YES/NO] ____ when YOU said that "a cappella" is only a tradition.
Here We Go....Again.
|May 9 2011, 9:33 AM |
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
Thank you Sonny for the Scripture.
If nothing else would condemn those who run and support this site, this Scripture does.
As I said before, I have done nothing to curse those who lay low here. They have done this themselves.
Get ready, get a chair and have a sit, and listen to all the excuses that are to follow this post.
Oh Donnie.... You have asked those questions before......many times. I have answered them......many times.
No more! The game is over!
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: Here We Go....Again.
|May 9 2011, 2:06 PM |
Dave said, "The game is over!" When people are backed into a corner and don't want to answer questions, they cry foul and come out with angry sentiments like, "You are cursed!" or "You don't love the Lord's church!" and then "The game is over!" If Dave wants to bow out, that's fine.
I don't think Sonny will be rebuking Dave anytime soon for his lack of saintly behavior, because I get the impression that Sonny agrees with Dave's "theology." BTW, Dave's "theology" includes pronouncing a curse upon those who disagree with him (that is, "You are cursed!") and then playing the innocent "saint" by trying to make everyone believe he did nothing wrong. That, of course, is deception and hypocrisy. 1 John 4:20 condemns as LIARS those who say they love God but who show hatred for others. Therefore, someone who says he loves the Lord's church but who posts hate messages against those who disagree with him is a LIAR. I suggest that Dave take that warning very seriously.
Part Three: FOR those not already marked
|May 9 2011, 12:25 PM |
Ephesiahs 4 OUTLAWS rhetoricians, singers, instrument players and dacers
|May 9 2011, 1:27 PM |
Is Your Soul Worth It?
|May 9 2011, 4:11 PM |
1 John 4
20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar.
You men are not brothers. You have seen to that yourself. No one else pulled you into this sinful existence. You have condemned our Lord's church, and therefore cannot be considered brothers. You have proven that you do NOT love our Lord's church.
You see William....you got yourself into this deep water, but with a public repentance you can get yourself out. It isn't a matter of pride William. It is a matter of your very salvation.
Music to deceive and make Jesus dumb before the slaughter.
|May 9 2011, 4:53 PM |
The "Love" weapon is a last resort for those who know that they have a short time to serve their master: Apollo lumped instruments and making love.
Matt. 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately,
saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?
and what shall be the sign of thy coming,
and of the end of the world?
Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them,
Take heed that no man deceive you.
plan-sis , es,
A. making to wander : dispersing, scattering, tn nen Th.8.42.
2. metaph., misleading,
2. wander in speaking, p. en t log Hdt.2.115; digress, p. apo tou logou Pl.Plt.263a.
6. in forensic Rhet., khrmata peplanmena, metathesis pep., of alternative pleas, Hermog. Stat.3.
7. to be misled, hupo phns koinottos Phld.Sign.7; tais homnumiais ib.36.
phn-e , (phn)
A. produce a sound or tone:
4. of a musical instrument, sound, E.Or.146 (lyr.); of sounds, hdu phnein sound sweetly, Plu.2.1021b; but bront ph. it has a voice, is significant, X.Ap.12.
4. of sounds made by inanimate objects, mostly Poet., kerkidos ph. S.Fr.595; suriggn (flute) E.Tr.127 (lyr.); auln Mnesim.4.56 (anap.); rare in early Prose, organn phnai Pl.R.397a; freq. in LXX, h ph. ts salpiggos LXX Ex.20.18; ph. bronts ib. Ps.103(104).7; h ph. autou hs ph. hudatn polln Apoc.1.15.
These are the musical weapons of Apollo, Abaddon or Apollo: He was the father of harmony including plucking the bow string, plucking his harp string or plucking with LOVE ARROWS.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 126.96.36.199 on May 9, 2011 5:01 PM|
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: Is Your Soul Worth It?
|May 9 2011, 5:44 PM |
Dave should ask himself that very same question. Is his soul worth the blatant LIE when he says he loves the Lord's church but then posts hate messages against Donnie, Ken, and Dr. Crump? I get the impression that Dave thinks he is immune from all New Testament Scriptures that condemn wrongdoers.
From Dave: "Is Your Soul Worth It?"
|May 10 2011, 4:33 AM |
I have just reviewed your congregation's website. The campus ministry (one of the church's emphases) is quite impressive. Is Matt, the campus minister, related to you? (I have also checked the 2003 Directory of Churches of Christ in the U.S.. It has a notation of CM+ [campus ministry].)
I noted that you served Communion this past Sunday (5/8) and will be the "worship leader" on 5/22. Nice title, Dave, as it must involve more than just leading singing throughout the assembly period. I also noted under "Leadership" that you're no longer one of the "shepherds." Did you resign? Just asking. YOU said:
"You have condemned our Lord's church, and therefore cannot be considered brothers. You have proven that you do NOT love our Lord's church."Very strong words of condemnation, Dave.
Members who are loyal to Christ and His church are those who defend that body from being polluted, perverted and divided by agents of change who seek to destroy that body, knowingly or unknowingly.
The Lord's church is 40,000-congregation strong worldwide and is virtually a church that does not indulge in mechanically operating musical machines in its assemblies. That church includes your own congregation, Dave.
Your stance on instrumental music in the gathering of saints is your own personal viewpoint, shared by change agents in the brotherhood and by certain individual members. That is NEVER the same as what the Lord's church, as a whole, believes and teaches. You are the one "going against the grain."
Since you did not take the opportunity to clarify matters and correct my "misunderstanding" of what you really believe and teach regarding the IM issue, I'm concluding that your response to each of the few questions I asked is a YES. (There are more questions for you.) For now, Dave asserts:
[YES] ____ That God approves/authorizes IM;
[YES] ____ That God is pleased with musical devices in praise;
[YES] ____ That we emulate David for playing instruments;
[YES] ____ That PA equates with IM, therefore, both are OK;
[YES] ____ That "a cappella" is only a tradition.
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: From Dave: "Is Your Soul Worth It?"
|May 10 2011, 12:51 PM |
That web site's "History" section proclaims that this church follows the teachings of Christ and His apostles, not man's teachings. They go back to the Bible as the only common denominator upon which Christians can unite. Also present on that page is this statement: "We have a plea to speak where the Bible speaks and to remain silent where the Bible is silent." That's what mainstream church of Christ congregations believe. Change agents believe anything BUT that.
It seems ironic that someone who is a member of that church would go off on a tangent and "speak" where the Bible is silent. Since the New Testament is the Christian's guide to worship and righteous living, and since the New Testament tells us to sing and make melody in our hearts, and since the New Testament is SILENT about using IM in Christian worship, then a member who says that IM is acceptable certainly doesn't follow that church's principles. Moreover, such a person goes above what is written in the New Testament and follows the teachings of man; man's teaching is, "God didn't say not to have IM." Such a person causes division and discord if he urges his congregation to worship with IM. Such a person would be better off if he left that church and joined one of the denominations that has IM.
BTW, I didn't see any mention of a praise team on that church's web site. Is there one?
It is All Yours!
|May 10 2011, 7:19 AM |
Donnie said..."Since you did not take the opportunity to clarify matters and correct my "misunderstanding" of what you really believe and teach regarding the IM issue, I'm concluding that your response to each of the few questions I asked is a YES. (There are more questions for you.) For now, Dave asserts:..."
Donnie, you go right ahead and answer for me. You and Bill do quite a good job of that for everyone already. I will not answer those questions for the umptenth time. You have my answers here already. Find them. You will not get the SAME answers from me again.
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: It is All Yours!
|May 10 2011, 2:34 PM |
I think Dave knows that it is not necessary to run all over this site searching for a bunch of answers to questions that Dave should have easily supplied for the "umptenth" [sic] time if necessary. BTW, that should be "umpteenth." Dave behaves like an obnoxious little brat, whose attitude is, "I'm not talkin' and you can't make me, so yaa yaa yaa!" Since Dave did not vehemently deny the answers that Donnie gave for him, then we know that those answers confirm Dave's approval of IM in Christian worship. That will always hang over Dave's head.
At this point, it would be wise for Dave to chime in with, "The game is over," because Dave's little game IS over.
Re: It is All Yours!
|May 10 2011, 3:57 PM |
Dave's words of truth and light make these guys assertions appear ridiculously petty and small-minded. Dr. Crump thinks that anything other than how his mind and traditions operate must be wrong. He probably even thinks to miss a Sunday night is a sin. His exception would be if the congregation used a piano because then it would be better to stay home. Remember that if the blind lead the blind they both fall into a ditch. Whether it's The Doctor or Donnie leading does not matter. Fred luvs Dr. Crump and will continue to hold him accountable for his doctrinal error and behavior unbecoming of a Christian toward Dave. Dr. Crump's salvation weighs in the balance! Fortunately the true God who is a consuming fire is likewise merciful and shall be with Dr. Crump if he will find it within himself to extend mercy and kindness to others.