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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Repentance Is Not = Forgiveness

June 20 2011, 1:28 AM 

There is no sin in MARKING THEM who "cause DIVISIONS among you." Now, I'm ready to admit that the Scripture teaches it. You cannot repent of that which is not sinful.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Can't Get Past It!

June 20 2011, 9:46 AM 

There is no sin in MARKING THEM who "cause DIVISIONS among you."
CORRECT.

The SIN is when you marked them in front of all the world to see, not just the brethren, like you were instructed within God's Word.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than..."

June 21 2011, 12:16 AM 

No!!!

The sin is in "causing division."

The conflict is between:

(a) The Change Agents = who cause division in the church
---------- and -----------
(b) Christ's church that the change agents are "transforming"

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

The "Combined Service"

June 21 2011, 1:54 AM 

Jimmy Joe, you wrote on June 10:
... On a serious note, if you are attending the one combined service at Madison this Sunday maybe we could sit together for the meal while they burn the debt. The internet is so informal maybe by conversing in person we could get to know each other better.

I guess we missed each other on Sunday (June 12th) during the "combined worship." There were 17 songs sung throughout the "praise musical"--all of which (except 5 from the hymnal) were contemporary songs. Besides the "Praise Team" of men and women co-leading with Brent, the "worship leader," there were more song leaders: Ryan, Roger, Don, Jonas and Steve. [No, brother Joe, I did not take notes--the worship guide listed them. happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif ] Oh, well, I can't imagine the first gathering of the New Testament church in Jerusalem would have that many worship leaders. Of course, there's no reason for me to believe that the church in Jerusalem had incurred the debt in the millions of dollars and celebrated as being debt-free after some 12 years.

I kind of suspected what the combined attendance would be -- there were 1537 in attendance (less than half, I think, of what special gatherings would normally draw before a decade ago). As you know, this has been a concern in the leadership, as evidenced by what the elders brought up on the 5th of June -- their message was "A Vision for the Future." I recall from the stats shown that the "traditional" group's attendance is only in the 400s (I hope I can verify this later). There may be some developments in progress, I'm not sure.

Anyway, I enjoyed the free fellowship/celebration meal. Did you enjoy the musical band and singers and their performances under the tent? [Shhhh! let's hope that passersby weren't beginning to think that the Madison church of Christ is sooner or later going to become a body of believers who will enjoy instrumental music in the assembly. Shhhh!]

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

At Least You Still Will Eat With Them

June 21 2011, 9:09 AM 

Donnie,
Don't ever put down women who gossip. You make them like angels. Per your last note to Jimmy Joe, you should transfer it over to paper and see if it Saturday Night Live could use it for a skit. Donnie, your just an old codger that has a pessimistic penchant for ridiculing people and what you don't like.
I am surprised that you would even associate with them at the meal.

 
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R*
(no login)
98.81.44.26

Re: A question for Donnie

June 21 2011, 10:38 AM 

Donnie, why don't you find a Church fellowship that you enjoy? Life is too short to be miserable all the time. Try another congregation. Just a thought...

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.209.210

Another Thought

June 21 2011, 3:39 PM 

Why don't those who want to change the New Testament church start their own new congregations, instead of taking over existing, traditional congregations and causing such division and chaos? Just a thought...

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

The Thought....

June 22 2011, 12:30 PM 

Just a thought....Bill.....why don't you choose a real hobby. Following Jesus isn't a hobby. You seem to like writing books about the holidays......stick to that. You have to be full of joy to follow Jesus, instead of being condescending, arrogant, and slanderous.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.245.123

Hobby

June 22 2011, 3:41 PM 

A person like Dave, who makes it a "hobby" to condemn, smear, and slander those who disagree with him, does not follow Jesus, no matter how much he argues that he does. We've all known that for quite some time. Maybe one day Dave will realize it as well and change his evil attitude. The winking face hopes so. wink.gif

 
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R*
(no login)
98.81.68.132

Re: Hobby

June 22 2011, 8:37 PM 

Young children are often amused with the various "smiley faces". I don't believe I have ever seen an adult with the fascination Dr. Crump has for the smiley faces". Just saying...

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.240.241.237

Childlike

June 22 2011, 10:18 PM 

Perhaps R* should consider that being "childlike" does have its advantages:

"Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein" (Luke 18:17 KJV).

BTW, smiley faces simply convey an attitude of goodwill; they are often misunderstood by mean-spirited people bent on finding fault. Just saying... happy.gif


 
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R*
(no login)
98.81.48.55

Re: Childlike

June 23 2011, 9:31 AM 

There is nothing wrong with smiley faces. Let's just be mature about them.

1 Corinthians 13:11 (King James Version)

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.


Bill, you have a childlike obsession with the winking face. You routinely comment about the winking face. It's not normal for a man of you age. Just my observation..

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
98.87.23.31

Re: Childlike

June 23 2011, 11:03 PM 

Like I said, smiley faces simply convey an attitude of goodwill; they are often misunderstood by mean-spirited people bent on finding fault.

Are you telling us you are a mean-spirited person bent on finding fault?

Smiley faces seem to bother you. I have no idea why, but it's not normal for "mature" people to let something as trivial as that bother them. If you reconsider your priorities, you'll have more peace of mind. wink.gifhappy.gif




 
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R*
(no login)
98.81.46.241

Re: Childlike

June 24 2011, 9:36 AM 

"Are you telling us you are a mean-spirited person bent on finding fault?"

**********************************************

Bill, perhaps I have been a bit mean-spirited. I think I now understand your situation and I will back off. I hope you and your friend "Winky" wink.gif have a great day!


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
98.87.219.154

Re: Childlike

June 24 2011, 2:24 PM 

It looks like R* has reconsidered his priorities. He has elected to back off and we know the real reason why: because seeing smiley faces upsets him. wink.gifhappy.gif

 
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R*
(no login)
98.81.116.141

Re: Childlike

June 28 2011, 12:08 AM 

Bill, actually I am glad you found a couple of friends. Simley and Winky will be a great comfort to you. However their friendship may be short lived once they get to really know you. I'm sure they will turn against you. Prepare for the "meltdown". sad.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.14.38

Re: Childlike

June 28 2011, 6:04 PM 

R*, you may want to seek professional help to overcome your obvious aversion to smiley faces. As I said, they are indicators of goodwill, yet you seem to abhor that sentiment. You even ended your message with a frowning face, which indicates anything but goodwill. I rest my case. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

"Life is too short to be miserable all the time."

June 23 2011, 12:39 AM 

R* (no login) 98.81.44.26
Re: A question for Donnie (June 21 2011, 10:38 AM)
Donnie, why don't you find a Church fellowship that you enjoy? Life is too short to be miserable all the time. Try another congregation. Just a thought...
R*: I agree. It is not the members' fault. The membership is not to blame for the misdeeds of the change agents. The membership does not make me miserable. So, I am fine where I am, even if it appears that the traditional group is diminishing worse in numbers. Even if it appears that the progressives are simply waiting for the old believers to die off [such is an ugly desire] so that they can carry out their progressive, culture-driven schemes more fully. OK, let's hope that my observation/theory is inaccurately stated.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.248.127

Re: "Life is too short to be miserable all the time."

June 23 2011, 1:00 AM 

I've also heard similar sentiments about progressives/change agents simply waiting for the old traditionalists/old believers to die off so the progressive schemes can be fully implemented. It's not an isolated sentiment. Some churches couldn't care less about waiting for anyone to die off. They just railroad their schemes and say to anyone who complains, "Get over it or get out!"

 
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R*
(no login)
98.81.63.178

A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

June 23 2011, 8:13 AM 

Bill, I think you are safe. I don't think anyone considers you as a "mossback" Church member.

I find it hard to believe that some Churches are waiting for some old members to die off. There are so many Churches to choose from.

 
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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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