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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: Our Position At Concerned Members (Part 2) - For Dave

July 1 2011, 12:00 AM 

Sonny, if your TONGUE wasn't plastered so tightly inside your own CHEEK, we could think that even YOU believe every word you just wrote. wink.gif

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At some point we have to accept God or man

July 1 2011, 9:50 AM 


I am pleased you have noted the prophet Waddey. It is a pity that our moderator constanly edits out and hides the truth about this prophet, while willingly engaging and encouraging slander of others quoted here.

At some point, Donnie, Ken, Bill, and John will have to decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not:

Psa 149

1 Praise the Lord.

Sing to the Lord a new song,

his praise in the assembly of the saints.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;

let the people of Zion be glad in their King.

3 Let them praise his name with dancing

and make music to him with tambourine and harp.

4 For the Lord takes delight in his people;

he crowns the humble with salvation.

5 Let the saints rejoice in this honor

and sing for joy on their beds.

6 May the praise of God be in their mouths

and a double-edged sword in their hands,

7 to inflict vengeance on the nations

and punishment on the peoples,

8 to bind their kings with fetters,

their nobles with shackles of iron,

9 to carry out the sentence written against them.

This is the glory of all his saints.

Praise the Lord.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Sonny, Take Personal Credit

July 1 2011, 3:19 AM 

Brother Sonny,

How would you identify your message to the reader? Is it comedic, parodic, imitative, contemplative, dramatic, melodramatic, satirical, hysterical?

You should take personal credit for your journalistic skills and for your "kind and gentle" approach to expressing yourself. Just a few changes to your expressions would make it "personal" and credible:

-- "we ... conservatives here at ConcernedMembers"
-- "our position at ConcernedMembers"
-- "we follow ... we believe ,,. we support ... we promote"
-- "our finest ambassador ... our second finest ambassador"
-- "we ... we ... we ... our ... our ... our ... us ... us ... us"

What about:

-- "I ... with progressive tendencies"
-- "my liberal position"
-- "I follow ... I believe ... I support ... I promote"
-- "my finest change agent ... my second finest change agent"
-- "I ... I ... I ... my ... my ... my ... me ... me"

"Tribute to whom tribute is due"; personal credit to whom personal credit....

[linked image]

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(no login)

I DON'T Wonder So Much Now...

July 1 2011, 8:15 AM 

Donnie....William......what else would you expect???
The responses are fitting and appropriate. Nothing good can come from this site with your attitudes and behavior.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Psalm 149

July 1 2011, 11:58 AM 


3. There has come to us a letter from our country: we read it to you.

7. But the saints who "exult in glory," no need is there for us to say how they exult: just hear the verse of the Psalm which followeth: "The saints shall exult in glory, they shall rejoice in their beds:" not in theatres, or amphitheatres, or circuses, or follies, or market places, but "in their chambers."

What is, "in their chambers"? In their hearts. Hear the Apostle Paul exulting in his closet: "For this is our glory, the testimony of our conscience." On the other hand, there is reason to fear lest any be pleasing to himself, and so seem to be proud, and boast of his conscience. For every one ought to exult with fear, for that wherein he exulteth is God's gift, not his own desert. For there be many that please themselves, and think themselves righteous;

10. We know that kings have been made Christians; we know that the nobles of the Gentiles have been made Christians. They are being made so at this day; they have been, they shall be; the "swords twice sharpened" are not idle in the hands of the saints.

How then do we understand their being bound in fetters and chains of iron? Ye know, beloved and learned brethren (learned I call you,
for ye have been nourished in the Church, and are accustomed to hear God's Word read),

If you make it past reeding and righting you will understand that in ALL pagan ritualism only males may participate but PERFORMING THE ROLES OF WONEN as in David's making himself naked before the lord. I will point you to some WORD DEFINITIONS in Psalm 149 to prove that the psalmist YEARNED to get God in his bed as praise teams want to be cuddled in God's lap or even DARE TO DANCE WITH GOD.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

"To decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not"

July 2 2011, 3:53 AM 

Scott made an excellent point -- "... decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not."

Is that really the issue? I think NOT. Of course, the Holy Scripture is inspired by God, including all the chapters in the Book of Psalms, whether or not a chapter is a psalm; including biographies, historical accounts about nations, prophecies, events and occurrences--murder, theft, punishment, rebellion, idolatrous worship, etc. They all comprise the inspired Holy Scripture. So, let's get that non-issue out of the way.

Psalm 149 is inspired. And so is the list of mankind's good and evil deeds. But there is no command specified in that chapter. It is poetic. By the way, poetry is also an element in the inspired Word. And so is romance. The Song of Solomon, in chapter 4, reveals this:

  • [1] Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
  • [2] Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them.
  • [3] Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet, and thy speech is comely: thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate within thy locks.
  • [4] Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men.
  • [5] Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.
When you read Psalm 149, what do you do now about the following specifics in "worship" as the musical instrument lover would suggest:

-- Praising his name with [literal] DANCING
-- Making music to him with [literal] TAMBOURINE and HARP
-- Singing for joy on their [literal] beds in the assembly
-- Holding a [literal] double-edged sword in their hands
-- Binding their nobles with [literal] shackles of iron

If these specific elements are to be excluded from "worship" except for musical instruments, then, there is evidence of comprehension deficiency. It may help to take courses in "Reading 101" and "Interpretation 101."

Let's not forget that David offered "burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD." (II Sam. 6:17)

Let's not forget that "David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. (II Sam. 6:14)

Let's not forget that David "uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!" (II Sam. 6:20)

Of course, it's the IM lover's prerogative to follow David's "worship and praise" activities and make them applicable to the gathering of New Testament saints.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: "To decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not"

July 2 2011, 10:10 AM 

"And if [any] mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe" (Exodus 21:23-25 KJV).

The passage above is inspired by God. Do we Christians practice that today? No. Here's why we don't:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matt. 5:38-39 KJV).

Jesus overrode the Old Testament's directives with His own directives. Likewise, Jesus through Paul overrode the Old Testament's directives about IM with His own directives for music in Christian worship:

"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" (Eph. 5:19 KJV).

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord" (Col. 3:16 KJV).

When denominationalists and change agents insist on resorting to Old Testament practices like implementing IM in Christian worship, they override Jesus' directives in preference for their own worldly desires.

When denominationalists and change agents insist that IM is OK because it "accompanies" and "enhances" singing in Christian worship, they override Jesus' directives in preference for their own worldly desires. Jesus never directed us to "accompany" or "enhance" our singing with anything more than the melody made in our hearts.

When denominationalists and change agents make a pretense of saying that multiple harmonies are "sinful" because Jesus never "authorized" them, they conveniently forget that Jesus only authorized SINGING. He left the physical HOW of singing to us (loudly or softly, fast or slow, in unison or in harmony). Again, the ONLY type of accompaniment/enhancement Jesus authorized was the melody made in our hearts.

When denominationalists and change agents support IM with the premise of, "It is a sin to condemn what Jesus does not," they conveniently forget that it is a sin to override, change, or alter what Jesus has already authorized. Had Jesus said, "Worship me with music," then we would have had carte blanche to use any and every form of music with which to worship Him. As it stands, Jesus limited our worship music ONLY TO SINGING.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: "To decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not"

July 2 2011, 2:54 PM 

And when malcontents bent on turning the Church of Christ into just another denomination read the absolute truth of what I just posted, they gnash their teeth and respond in the only impotent manner they know how, over and over and over: "You are cursed!" "You are a sinner!" "Repent! Repent! Repent! Repent! Repent!" wink.gif

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RE: Buzzards

July 2 2011, 10:11 PM 

I honestly cannot believe that you all hold yourselves to be men of Christ and the Christian faith. You all have such hateful, sarcastic and SINFUL attitudes toward one another. If a non-believer is watching so-called CHRISTIANS act this way, why in the world would he want to be converted to the Christian faith?! I say "so-called Christians" because none of you are conducting yourselves in a CHRIST-like manner with a CHRIST-like attitude! For the "good elders" who seem to think that THEY must be the ones sitting at the right-hand of the Father, yes, there were times when it was necessary for Jesus to admonish the brethren for their wrong-doings, mis-steps, etc but He NEVER, NEVER did so with a SINful attitude but ONLY with and out of LOVE and COMPASSION for their souls who were in danger of hell's fire. Your sarcasm isn't lost on anyone, but your Christ-like brotherly love was apparently lost long ago and I fear you are in DIRE need of finding it dear brothers!

My 9 and 6 year olds argue almost incessantly but TRUST ME.....NEVER as CHILDISHLY as you all! This is a pure embarrassment to the Christian faith and all who proclaim it!

By the way, just for the record, we can sing "Happy Birthday" or "What a Friend We Have in Jesus" or "When the Roll is Called Up Yonder" or "When We All Get to Heaven" or WHATEVER as many times as we want to until we are blue in the face IN church, OUT of church or wherever we are but NONE of that will get us to heaven!

We will NOT go to heaven because we kept a set of rules standing behind a pulpit but because we have been washed in the blood of the lamb who lived a sinless life and died for our sins so that we TOO could live a sinless life.

Only AFTER we have turned our lives over to HIM and allowed HIM to make us a NEW creation will we inherit eternal life. You can keep all the rules you want, but rules won't save you, only Jesus can. That new creation I mentioned will start to look more and more like Him every day and less and less like the world every day. It's very hard for me to imagine Jesus sarcastically chastising His disciples and having a sinful attitude. It's impossible....He didn't!!

There IS coming a day of judgement where we will stand before Him to give an account of the deeds done in this body(that includes the words spoken)(Rev 20:12, Matt 25:31-32). No one, NO ONE will stand before Him on the day of judgement and "argue their case" with Him. It's not about philosophy or doctrine or our OPINION of how WE interpreted HIS word.

People think that just because they are "a good person" or keeping a set of rules, etc that they are going to make it or will somehow be able to convince God that "well so and so did it" but they will be surprised to find that the standard will not be our creeds, manuals, religious rituals, wisdom, morality, comparative excellency, honesty, sincerity, nor feelings. We will be judged by the Lord and His Word (Jno. 12:48). He ALONE is the judge!

Please take a moment and pray and really ask yourself if this REALLY does ANYTHING to EDIFY the church or has it just become an excuse and vehicle to tear one another down? (Eph 4:11-16)

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Jul 4, 2011 1:28 PM

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: RE: Buzzards

July 3 2011, 10:35 AM 

It looks like CSEM (another alphabet poster*) is not a happy camper.

Apparently CSEM doesn't like "rules." If you don't obey Jesus in all things, He won't save you. Jesus does have specific requirements for salvation; if you don't faithfully and willingly obey them, you're lost. There's a thread here that addresses Jesus' requirements for salvation. You would do well to read those requirements.


*alphabet poster: a poster who hides his/her identity behind initials, abbreviations, or acronyms. Source: Dr. Crump wink.gif

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Re: RE: Buzzards

July 4 2011, 5:50 PM 

Hey, Mr. Freedom of Information, where do you attend Church?

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Re: "To decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not"

July 2 2011, 10:18 PM 

"As it stands, Jesus limited our worship music ONLY TO SINGING."

Jesus did not say "ONLY TO SINGING". William added that.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

BBQ Pork Chops & Chips and Diet Pepsi

July 3 2011, 4:09 AM 

This passage will explain the "none-other-than" confusion:
  • [16] For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
  • [17] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
  • [18] For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
  • [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
  • [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Do you see the word "ONLY" in both underscored expressions? Of course, not, but the implication is clearly that:

(1) It is not DIET PEPSI;
(2) It is not "the old testament in the blood of bulls and goats."

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: "To decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not"

July 3 2011, 10:13 AM 

Anonymous (Dave) wrote: "Jesus did not say 'ONLY TO SINGING[.'] William added that."

Well now, if Jesus did not limit our Christian worship music "only to singing," then surely He specified OTHER types of music to use. Of course, we know that He through Paul specified only singing and nothing else. Why gamble and assume that other kinds of music would please Him, when He didn't specify them? Since we know that it is a sin to add to, take from, or in any way change something that Jesus has already authorized, then Jesus did indeed limit our worship music ONLY TO SINGING. I only stated what should be quite obvious except to those who are bent on overriding Jesus and following their own personal desires by adding IM.

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Re: "To decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not"

July 4 2011, 9:40 AM 

Hey Bill, by your logic we are saved by "faith only". happy.gif

King James Bible
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

We are saved by faith, by grace, by the blood of Christ, etc.

July 4 2011, 1:38 PM 

The "fruit of the vine" is not accompanied by soda.

Also, faith WITHOUT works is dead (James 2).

The word "only" does not have to be present when the implication is clearly "none other than."

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Re: We are saved by faith, by grace, by the blood of Christ, etc.

July 4 2011, 3:30 PM 

If you must go outside to another Bible reference please consider Psalms 150. You know God never ever changed His mind! If you believe that the Psalms are inspired you have to to believe it! Why don't you believe it? Because you just can't accept it. It's time, Donnie and Bill Crump, to face the truth.

Cut your ears on!

2TIM 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: "To decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not"

July 4 2011, 2:29 PM 

If a person has faith, s/he will obey all that Jesus said for them to do to be saved. Having faith is just ONE requirement for salvation. You shpuld know that from having read the thread about Jesus' requirements for salvation.

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(no login)

Re: "To decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not"

July 4 2011, 4:28 PM 

Please speak English!

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Re: "To decide whether the scriptures are inspired by God or not"

July 4 2011, 5:25 PM 

Since Mr. Crump has no problem in correcting the spelling of all other folks on the site (and accusing them of not being as learned as he) I think I should point out that Mr. Crump has a problem with his spelling. I believe that Mr. Crump should refer to a dictionary for the correct spelling of "should" which he has incorrectly spelled as "shpuld."

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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