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Dave
(no login)
173.245.56.179

Men Placing Themselves Above God

July 3 2011, 4:30 PM 

Anonymous, Scott, etc., you can forget about trying for real reasoning here at concerned. These men believe their interpretations to be on par with Paul and certainly divine. They care not for the Truth, only what they like.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
173.245.56.155

Change Agents: Men Placing Themselves Above God

July 3 2011, 7:58 PM 

Dave,

In this day and age, politics/government and religion have something in common.

(1) Speaking of politics or the government, there is the U.S. Constitution with its design and purpose (federal and states' power and functions, individual rights, etc.), being attacked, disrespected, and distorted by forces of socialism, Marxism, progressivism, liberalism. Extremists want it abolished.

(2) In religion, there is the truth, God's Word, whereby there is provision for one outside of Christ to become God's child; provisions, principles and directives for those in the church for Christian living. The church is being attacked, intruded upon, divided by forces within. Prominent in this effort is a group of "brethren" [a.k.a. the CHANGE AGENTS] who are counterparts of the progressive, liberal elements in the political arena. They seek to neutralize the church and its distinctiveness so that the body of Christ is no different from denominational religious bodies founded by men and WOMEN [Mary Baker Eddy, Helen G. White--Dave should become familiar with these founders]. They seek to compromise the truth so that the teachings and doctrines that we believe in and that are found in the New Testament are no different from the erroneous teachings of Protestantism, Catholicism, and other isms.

One of your problems, Dave, is that you have failed miserably in recognizing the risks and dangers that the church of the Lord Jesus Christ is facing. Or, you've remained blindfolded. The change agents operating in the brotherhood, just like the liberals and progressives in the political world, are the ones who are attempting to discredit the true nature of the Lord's body, by proclaiming to the whole universe that the church of Christ Jesus is just "another denomination" among denominations, and that the denominations of this world (Protestant, Catholic, and whatever else) ultimately COMPRISE the BODY OF CHRIST.

Dave, as a result of the above problem, you've created another problem for YOURSELF ALONE--that you have come to attack this website, whose objective is to defend the truth and to warn peaceful congregations of the risks and dangers of the Change Movement that the change agents have very warmly embraced.

And you should be aware by now that a few congregations of the 40,000-congregation strong body of believers worldwide have succumbed, because of misleadership, to the "gospel of church improvisation" by/through culture-driven methodologies and schemes. These few "converted" congregations have either become Community Churches or are now affiliated with the Christian Church denomination.

Open your eyes, Dave. You are barking up the wrong tree. The issue here has nothing to do with a brother committing sin against another brother in the local congregation--as you have persistently and stubbornly broadcast. That's the major fallacy in your premise.

Rather, the issue here has to do with the change agents going AGAINST the church that belongs to its founder, the Lord Jesus Christ. The change agents MUST STOP insulting and belittling Christ, MUST STOP degrading His church, and MUST STOP compromising the truth that Christ with His apostles have taught His disciples and followers.

How difficult is that for YOU to comprehend?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
173.245.48.89

Edited CSEM

July 4 2011, 1:36 PM 

I have added some reading room to CSEM's post.

And I offer this up as a praise song: you will have to repeat it ten times with some space for polyrhymic handclapping.

"Oh..... Dare to be a buzzard dddddd
Brave and strong and true uuuuu
Oh....Dare to be a buzzzz uuu rrr dddd
Jus like.....u... you uuuuu

 
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R*
(no login)
173.245.56.191

Re: Edited CSEM

July 4 2011, 5:06 PM 

The truth burns you like a HOT poker!

 
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CSEM
(no login)
12.37.199.181

RE: Edited CSEM

July 10 2011, 12:52 AM 

Wow Ken! You've got an even worse case of arrogance than I suspected. The truth hurts doesn't it...wait no, I think the word the Bible uses is "CONVICTS." It's just a shame that some people are too arrogant to give-in to that conviction that they feel. That lump in your throat right now? You probably haven't felt it in a while, but it's conviction. It's Jesus Christ saying "give up this CHARADE, Ken and become a REAL man of God. Stop playing these games about who can come up with the best, lowest-blow, most sinful comeback and get back to doing what I have called you to do..... lifting MY name up, telling others about ME, and living a life of example before others that they may see ME in YOU. Time to grow up, Kenny boy."

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.245.56.179

In Front of Unbelievers

July 4 2011, 6:00 PM 

Donnie, you said "The issue here has nothing to do with a brother committing sin against another brother in the local congregation--..."

You are right! It has to do with brothers sinning, such as yourself, while you ridicule and slander WHOLE congregations (the Lord's church), not just another brother.

1 Corinthians 6
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lords people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lords people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to courtand this in front of unbelievers!

 
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Donnie
(no login)
173.245.56.155

No, it's in front of unbelievers of facts and realities -- like you

July 4 2011, 8:23 PM 

Dave,

(1) I'm glad to hear you admit that the issue here has "nothing to do with a brother committing sin against another brother in the local congregation." Now, it is time for you to recant your accusations. It is time for you to be alarmed also that if your own congregation is not vigilant, chances are that the change agents will be out there to victimize that body of believers in Clemson, SC. Please don't say that it does matter to David Fields.

(2) We will continue to expose the evil deeds and schemes of the change agents. That will remain in effect, Dave. The Scripture says so: to mark those (the change agents) who cause divisions in the body of Christ. From your writings so far, you've been silent about this. Why don't you condemn them and ask them to repent, instead? Again, you are barking up the wrong tree!!!

Members and congregations have been given the opportunity to express their thoughts and concerns about what's going on in their own cities ... just as much as this website has given you the same and equal opportunity to express your love for the Change Movement and the change agents and your hatred for those who expose their evil schemes that are destructive to the church that Christ established.

I Corinthians 6 does not apply to either case above.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Re: This Site Is Like A Buzzard

July 6 2011, 2:41 PM 

The Scripture says so: to mark those (the change agents) who cause divisions in the body of Christ.
It does say that but 1 Corinthians 6 tells us to do that all within the confines of the church. The congregations deal with their own matters. Even if there was a congregation that was out of hand and needed to be rebuked by all of the brotherhood....it still should NEVER be opened up for the public (non-believers) to see.

1 Corinthians 6
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lords people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lords people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to courtand this in front of unbelievers!

ALL church matters stay within the church and not to be broadcast to the public.....as YOU did here.
YES....1 Corinthians 6 does apply.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

The Change Movement and Agents Are Public

July 7 2011, 2:37 AM 

Dave,

Your premise is fallacious. There is no dispute between brethren here. If there is a dispute, as you refer to it, it is between: (a) the change agents and (b) the church of Christ Jesus that they're trying to restructure, reconstruct, deconstruct, reorganize, modify, downgrade, and transform into "another denomination."

The change agents have broadcast their schemes to the PUBLIC and the WORLD. You know it. You've even published more than one of their already PUBLICized articles here at CM. You copy-and-pasted them from [their] ONLINE websites, correct?

Part of the public is also a host of religious denominations that have been infected with the "change movement" disease, each with its own tailored schemes and methodologies. The Community Movement, the Pentecostalism/Charismatic Movement and other movements have also plagued denominations: Baptist, Methodist, Christian Church, Presbyterian, etc.

Of course, it is your prerogative to defend the Change Agents and their culture-driven schemes that the PUBLIC already knows.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

You Know You Are Wrong

July 7 2011, 8:33 AM 

Donnie,
That is what this site is all about.....lies and deceptions.
When you say "Of course, it is your prerogative to defend the Change Agents and their culture-driven schemes that the PUBLIC already knows," everyone, including yourself, knows that you aren't into finding the Truth.

My PREROGATIVE, Donnie, is to tell you again, that there will always be issues within the brotherhood. You have several, but for you to bring them here to a public venue, such as this, is a sin.
YES, Donnie, 1 Corinthians 6, does apply.
1 Corinthians 6
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lords people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lords people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to courtand this in front of unbelievers!

If you have an issue with an elder(s), a brother, a church, then you take it up with the elder(s), the congregation, or the brother/sister. If you wanted to warn churches, then you make sure that the churches ONLY see this, not the unbelievers also.
You failed when you brought it here to a publicly viewed site such as this.

You have failed over and over again to explain why you believe that the unbelievers (those who have no idea to what is going on with our Lord's church) have privy to any of these issues. You have publicly brought the church's issues/problems for all to view. You have sinned. The issue will NEVER be the problem with what happened or is happening with change agents, the Lord's Supper, baptism, or any other problem in the church. THE ISSUE is that you decided to bring those problems here to this public venue. YOU....have publicly held the church up for ridicule. You have sinned.
You will NEVER have a viable reason for doing so.
If you care to use this site for any good, then use it to spread the gospel, not this catastrophe that you are parading for anyone to view now.
Donnie, talking to several at Madison, we both know that I am not the only one who feels this way.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.12.3

Re: You Know You Are Wrong

July 7 2011, 11:14 AM 

When people hear an answer they don't like or don't want to accept, they say, "Aha! You didn't answer the question!" In other words, "Don't give me anything but the answer I want to hear!" It's a typical defense mechanism. And so it is with Dave, who has already made up his mind never to accept any answer that Donnie (or any conservative) gives him to any question. Moreover, Dave won't (more like can't) answer the questions that Donnie posed to him. For Dave to answer truthfully would be for Dave to betray himself. All Dave knows how to do is post variations on his worn-out, name-calling chants of, "You are cursed!" "You are wrong!" "You are a sinner!" "Repent! Repent! Repentrepentrepentrepentrepentrepennnnnnnnnt!!" wink.gif

 
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Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.18.234

The Irrelevancy of Crump

July 7 2011, 12:50 PM 

I find it interesting how Mr. Crump is more than happy to point out the speck in someone's eye, all the while ignoring the plank in his own eye. (Matt. 7:3) Twice in the last week, Mr. Crump has been shown to have misspelled words on this site. His arrogance and narcissism have turned away many, canceling any speck of truth which might be found in his words. Thus, Mr. Crump is irrelevant to any discussion of truth here or anywhere else he might wander.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.11.193

Re: The Irrelevancy of Crump

July 7 2011, 6:56 PM 

Hey, Tom, how are your studies coming along? You know, those really deep studies about why the Alamo doesn't have a basement! I'm sure they are very "relevant." wink.gif


 
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Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.18.234

Re: The Irrelevancy of Crump

July 8 2011, 8:59 AM 

Mr. Crump, I'm not sure of your affinity with the Alamo. It is a site where heroes died, men who valued the freedom of others above their own lives. These were men who were not narcissistic, something you would not understand.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.8.136

No Narcissism

July 8 2011, 11:37 AM 

Tom, I'm glad your studies of the Alamo's phantom basement are going well. Keep up the good work! But I'd almost bet you wished you had never mentioned on FaithSite of all places the fact that the Alamo didn't have a basement, as if that tidbit mattered. You opened yourself up for that.

As for narcissism, well, you probably know I took Dave's little quiz, which proved that I am no narcissist. Oh, how that upset him! Now, if referring to me as an alleged "narcissist" makes you feel good and superior, go ahead. What is that to me? But by doing so, you--what is that "legal" phrase--"assume facts not in evidence." You express only your very biased opinion, which certainly carries no weight with me.

BTW, Tom, are you willing to take the narcissism quiz and post your score, or are you afraid it might reveal something that would embarrass you? Or maybe you think you are "above" such things. Hmmm? wink.gif

 
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Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.18.234

Re: No Narcissism

July 8 2011, 1:21 PM 

Mr. Crump, you have been off your meds far too long. You were the first to bring up a supposed basement. I really have much more important things to do. It's ok. Just go visit a real doctor and they can give you something to help. happy.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.240.241.43

Re: No Narcissism

July 8 2011, 9:30 PM 

Actually, Tom, you first brought up the subject of the basement at FaithSite. You had visited the Alamo and remarked that it didn't have a basement. Now, if you don't remember that, perhaps you are the one who needs to visit a doctor.

BTW, you wrote: "Just go visit a real doctor and they [sic] can give you something to help." That should be: "Just go visit a real doctor and he or she can give you something to help."

"Real doctor" implies one person, whereas "they" implies more than one person. Since the noun and pronoun must match, use a singular pronoun with a singular noun.

You also could have written your statement as follows: "Just go visit a real doctor who can give you something to help." That's actually much better.

I hope your "much more important things to do" will not keep you from seeing your doctor. wink.gif


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.246.12

Let's Have a Little Fun

July 7 2011, 8:24 PM 

Question 1: If a jealous person with a chip on his/her shoulder wants to smear someone who has superior training and knowledge, what terms might that person use?

Answer: narcissist, arrogant, etc.

Question 2: If a jealous person with a chip on his/her shoulder pops up from time to time strictly to smear someone who has superior training and knowledge, what hyphenated term best describes that person?

Answer: a jack-in-the-box

 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.112.185

Edit it! HURRY!!!

July 7 2011, 9:47 PM 

I am going to repost my last post. I post what is truthful and relevant, and Bill Crump does the dirty work with the slanderous reply, and Donnie doesn't acknowledge the post. Do The Dance!!!!

happy.gif


Donnie,
That is what this site is all about.....lies and deceptions.
When you say "Of course, it is your prerogative to defend the Change Agents and their culture-driven schemes that the PUBLIC already knows," everyone, including yourself, knows that you aren't into finding the Truth.

My PREROGATIVE, Donnie, is to tell you again, that there will always be issues within the brotherhood. You have several, but for you to bring them here to a public venue, such as this, is a sin.
YES, Donnie, 1 Corinthians 6, does apply.
1 Corinthians 6
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lords people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lords people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to courtand this in front of unbelievers!

If you have an issue with an elder(s), a brother, a church, then you take it up with the elder(s), the congregation, or the brother/sister. If you wanted to warn churches, then you make sure that the churches ONLY see this, not the unbelievers also.
You failed when you brought it here to a publicly viewed site such as this.

You have failed over and over again to explain why you believe that the unbelievers (those who have no idea to what is going on with our Lord's church) have privy to any of these issues. You have publicly brought the church's issues/problems for all to view. You have sinned. The issue will NEVER be the problem with what happened or is happening with change agents, the Lord's Supper, baptism, or any other problem in the church. THE ISSUE is that you decided to bring those problems here to this public venue. YOU....have publicly held the church up for ridicule. You have sinned.
You will NEVER have a viable reason for doing so.
If you care to use this site for any good, then use it to spread the gospel, not this catastrophe that you are parading for anyone to view now.
Donnie, talking to several at Madison, we both know that I am not the only one who feels this way.

____________________________

DONE per your simple and easy request:

(1) There's none to edit--the "unbeliever" or the public certainly needs to read and understand how and why you have played God's role in condemning: "This is a sin ... you have sinned ...you have sinned." [I've lost track of your "vain repetitions." (Matt. 6:7)]

(2) Your very important message is worth re-posting.

(3) Know that I acknowledge posts whenever I can, even if they've been approved by another moderator -- maybe, we're in different time zones; maybe, you're enjoying your early retirement [free time] or my work hours are different from yours.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jul 8, 2011 1:12 AM


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.240.239.16

Re: Edit it! HURRY!!!

July 8 2011, 1:53 AM 

When Dave disagrees with people, he thinks he is "righteous" to smear them as "sinners." On the other hand, when people disagree with Dave, he thinks they are "slandering" him, so he smears them as "sinners." In other words, you're a "sinner" if there is not 100% agreement between you and Dave.

As a "Christian," Dave has this thing about smearing his opponents as "sinners." That really smacks of narcissism and a god complex.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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