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This Site Is Like A Buzzard

June 28 2011 at 8:18 AM
Fred Whaley  (no login)
from IP address 173.162.22.85

Most Christian websites reference the Bible and provide aids for using and understanding it. This particular Church of Christ site does not try to help people grow in their faith. It attempts to destroy faith and unity and goodwill. It degrades people. Dehumanizes people. Demonizes people. It does not respect people nor their ideas and beliefs. It does not speak truth in love. Contributors are arrogant and rude. You cannot outpuke a buzzard. Most of what Fred reads here is "the leaders" religious puke. Then they return to it again and again. The Bible mentions fools returning to their vomit.

Fred Whaley

 
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AuthorReply
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

As It Attracts . . .

June 28 2011, 11:42 PM 

This site must believe in "freedom of speech." Even your unedited message is being posted. Indeed "this site is like a buzzard" as it attracts certain posters of the same mental ineptness.

You have the opportunity, Fred, to "help people grow in their faith." We even permit you to express your opinion, but scriptural support and references would benefit everyone.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.17

Agreed

June 29 2011, 12:11 AM 

My flock of buzzards are the most beautiful soaring birds in the world. They make a periodic cycle through the area and when I seem them high and lifted up by the wind (spirit) I know that they are the clean-up crew. They prevent any vile disease from spreading.

My handsom Newfoundland does the same thing: he drags up a carcase every few days and saves me a lot on dog food. He also is forced to barf down worthless stuff once in a while. Nevertheless he is a lovable fellow and would be a great lap dog if he wasn't too big to fit in my lap with my cat.

They serve the prophetic role following in the steps of Christ who called the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites and named speakers, singers and instrument players: he also included the spiritually dead audience.

He named the Civil-Military-Clergy system (your staff and ministry system) robbers and parasites. When the buzzards could not keep up as the sanitary crew, Jesus dismantled their gender-confused-clergy system and disposed of about a million probably in "hell" just outside of Jerusalem where they rotted and burned on a bed of maggots--Christ in the prophets warned that their harps and buried-alive harpists would go with them. The Jews are still looking for those tens of thousands of harps without which they cannot begin slaughtering innocent animals again--just to make God mad.

Thanks, that describes my mission perfectly: you should wish that you were as God-perfected, law-abiding, peaceful creation. On the other hand, the eagle will eat their own brethren and sistern alive--my chicken hawks and red-tailed do it all the time.

 
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TMP
(no login)
74.240.195.86

Re: As It Attracts . . .

June 29 2011, 7:27 AM 

Fred,

I was once a somewhat regular poster to this site. Until one day when I realized what is the point. No one here is interested in a real discussion. I once asked "name one disputable matter" like from Romans 14. I thought it would be a good starting point for a meaningful debate. The first century church struggled with differing opinions and how to determine what was opinion (or should we say tradition) and what was law. In 2000 years, things haven't changed too much! Did anyone take the challenge? Of course not! Dr Crump would rather write in the third person and get into a name calling argument. Ken would rather do whatever it is that he does.

If real discussion would take place, I'd post again, but if all that is going on is gossip and mean-spirited verbal jabs, I have better things to do than be buzzard bait. It is also hard to have those kinds of discussions if no one takes the other side...so if you want the bears to go away...stop feeding them!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.171.0.140

Romans 14

June 29 2011, 2:34 PM 

I was once a somewhat regular poster to this site. Until one day when I realized what is the point. No one here is interested in a real discussion. I once asked "name one disputable matter" like from Romans 14. I thought it would be a good starting point for a meaningful debate. The first century church struggled with differing opinions and how to determine what was opinion (or should we say tradition) and what was law. In 2000 years, things haven't changed too much! Did anyone take the challenge? Of course not! Dr Crump would rather write in the third person and get into a name calling argument. Ken would rather do whatever it is that he does.

We have not discussed but POSTED evidence from Romans 14 to prove that Paul pointed to those sects in the marketplace identified by their DIET and the DAYS they came to get meat usually provided by the Temples. You know where God said "you sacrifice to ME but YOU eat the meat."

Paul also EXCLUDED doubtful disputations or that which arises out of PRIVATE DIVERSITY. Everything not conducive to EDIFICATION or EDUCATION in this case is OUTLAWED. That makes the synagogue defined in Romans 15 possible:

Paul outlawed SELF-pleasure which word in both Greek and Latin excludes any of the performing arts Jesus consigned to the marketplaces. Then the direct command is to us one MIND and one MOUTH to speak "that which is written for our learning."

Ronnie Norman Romans 14

http://www.piney.com/Norman.Romans.14.html

Jay Guin Romans 14

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Romans.14.html

Paul was repeating the pattern Christ ordained for the REST He would bring with the Free Water of the Word, outlawing seeking our own pleasure and outlawing SPEAKING OUR OWN WORDS.

http://www.piney.com/Isaiah.58.html

You are free to go to the Agora or Marketplace as the center of most pagan temples and food supplies as well as places to take your meals ANY DAY you wish.

You are free to eat NUTS or not-quite-burnt offering of a young calf.

You are NOT free to do DOUBTFUL DISPOSITION and in Romans 15 yo are NOT FREE to MAKE MUSIC with Twila Paris: the direct command is to us ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH to speak that which is written for our learning Paul also defines as SCRIPTURE.




 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.25

Church is a WORD OF CHRIST ONLY ASSEMBLY

June 29 2011, 3:24 PM 

In Romans 14 Paul outlaws everything which does not Edify: Romans 14 cannot be used to include the sermons out of the preachers head or songs out of the head of Twila Paris teaching false doctrine.

We know from clay tablet onward that when people begin ro REV UP the pitch of the voice in that falsetto style they know that they can disable the "edifyable" hemisphere and appeal only to the emotional. Prophesiers probably came before prostitutes but they understood the nature of the human brain. Let me pontificate: a resent consistent study of the brain proves that it uses only 10% of what comes through the eyes to fabricate a picture in the mind: otherwise the brain would have to be bigger than a bathtub.

The brain HEARS only a small fraction of what comes through the ears. In the Babylonian texts Satan KNEW that he could FABRICATE dogma by bewitching the fleecees. John etal calls the rhetoricians, singers and instrument players SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world. Why would a preacher without a certificate of need DELIBERATELY use ALL of those negative paradigms and say that a SPIRIT told them that they MUST used these methods to be obedient to God?

The classics and church fathers make it certain that TRUTH SPEAKERS never raise their voice: SPEAK means in a converstational style. The singing (an enchanting word) and Melody (a warfare, perfersion wword) is IN THE PLACE OF THE HEART and never BREAKS OUT in the literal sense. In the synagogue the command was to PREACH by READING: the epistles were commanded to be READ in all of the churches. Paul didn't have to say "Don't SING these godly letters."

Music NEVER edifies: like the wormwood or Absinth: it doesn't cure but as a hallucin it makes the patient FEEL better. Music ALWAYS crams the brain with those fractions calculated to FORCE the human mind to FABRICATE pleasure out of flaming the brain.

The direct command OVER AND OVER AND OVER is that Christ NEVER calls HIS disciples into assembly other than to EDIFY without the laded burden or self pleasure. No one can ACCIDENTIALLY ignore that and that is why using witchcraft on people is not a redeemable sin. What is it to EDIFY?

g3620


[linked image]

g3619


[linked image]

You don't know of a congretation as institute which is not TASKED to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter" and they will have to pay for the radical transfer of the School of Christ into a "theater for holy entertainment." Madison PURPOSE DROVE that transfer and spread the virus throughout the country.




 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.44

Re: Church is a WORD OF CHRIST ONLY ASSEMBLY

June 29 2011, 4:46 PM 


Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Romans 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.


The kingdom has nothing to do with OUTSIDE rituals: the only purpose for assemblying people is to FEED them by EDIFYING them: the elders are commanded to "teach that which has been taught." You simply have no authority to add your own thoughts which would be legalism. Much less do you have the right to force music onto people because it would be like forcing food on them.


Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after
the things which make for peace,
and things wherewith one may edify another.


pax ,2. [select] Peace, tranquillity of mind:
turbo , vi, tum, 1, v. a. (
I. fut. perf. turbassit, for turbaverit, Cic. Leg. 3, 4; al. turbassitur) [turba], to disturb, agitate, confuse, disorder; to throw into disorder or confusion (freq. and class.; syn.: confundo, misceo, agito).
turbatus religione simul ac periculo, Suet. Ner. 19; cf.: turbatus animi, Sil. 14, 678: placare voluntates turbatas, Cic. Planc. 4, 11: seditionibus omnia turbata sunt

EDIFYING is never related to performing music in any sense. Edifying is a WORD descriptive of the ONLY command related to dragging people into assemblies: you have NO authority to go beyond that. Because people take LIBERTIES it is helpful to look at the ABSOLUTES of the meaning of church.

You cannot creat turbulance in the church
You must edify only.
In Chapter 15 Paul defines a clear PATTERNISM for the church. If you do sermons and songs you are deliberately destroying the peace and you are not edifying or educating. You can do that without doctors of the law who are ordained to "take away the key to knowledge." Another list of definitions.


[linked image]
[linked image]



 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
98.87.23.36

Re: As It Attracts . . .

June 29 2011, 4:41 PM 

Let's clear the air. Here we have TMP, another poster who hides behind initials or abbreviations or anything but his REAL FULL NAME. Well, if he's going to come back here, he should get his name-calling priorities straight. He must not overlook Dave. A person like him, who runs around branding those who disagree with him as "cursed" and "sinners," is most proficient in the malevolent "art" of name-calling. Also, TMP should not forget good ole Fred, who loves to define this site as "buzzard, "puke," and "spiritual vomit." He's another "master" at name-calling.

By now, TMP should know that writing in the third person does have its advantages. The winking eye knows so. wink.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
98.87.24.33

Re: As It Attracts . . .

June 29 2011, 9:12 AM 

Many people point fingers and criticize something as "bad" or "evil" or "worthless," yet they wouldn't think of trying to pitch in and try to resolve or solve what they think is the "problem." By refusing to do anything constructive, such people only become what they perceive as the "problem."

And so it is with Fred. Whenever he awakens from his "coma," he rails at this site; calls it "puke" and "spiritual vomit," yet he wouldn't dare to try to uplift anyone's faith here. Therefore, Fred is more of a benefit to everyone when he remains in his "coma." wink.gif

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

I Still Wonder

June 29 2011, 9:12 AM 

Ken, your first two paragraphs were quite entertaining and informative. How you went from your dogs, vultures, and cat to your usual ugly pessimistic "all music is hell" diatribe is beyond comprehension.
That is NOT a connection. No!


 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

BIrds of a Feather....

June 29 2011, 4:55 PM 

William mentioned that Fred "...wouldn't dare to try to uplift anyone's faith here."

William, help me out here and show where in all of your pessimistic and slanderous meanderings here have you EVER tried to uplift anyone's faith here?
Patting Ken and Donnie on the back isn't uplifting anyone's faith either. You are all in the same boat, remember?

Noticed too, William, that you have gone back to correcting grammar again outside of your holy SGP thread. Is this a sign that you have given up trying to converse intelligently about the Truth (not that you ever have in the first place)?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.203.159

Re: BIrds of a Feather....

June 29 2011, 6:08 PM 

Dave, help me out here and show where, in all of YOUR pessimistic squawkings of "You are cursed!" "You are a sinner" and "Repent, Repent," that YOU have EVER tried to uplift anyone's faith here?

Condemning and smearing those who disagree with you doesn't uplift anyone's faith. Fred, who enjoys smearing this site as "buzzard," "puke," and "spiritual vomit," is another malcontent like yourself who does nothing to uplift anyone's faith either. Therefore, remember that you and Fred are both in the same s(t)inking boat.

You shouldn't mention conversing intelligently about the Truth, Dave, because you've yet to post anything of real intelligence--about anything. You've spent far too much time squawking about "curses" and "sinners" to focus on the Truth. You also get bent out of shape when anyone corrects your grammar, which shows just how unspeakably immature you are, my dear boy. wink.gif

 
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TMP
(no login)
173.245.56.245

Proving my point

June 29 2011, 11:00 PM 

I don't think you could prove my point better if you tried. Bill, I have never called anyone names on this site and have always been polite in conversation. You can check the archives. If you or others that posted to the site were actually interested in debate or discussion, I would spend time posting to the site. But since it is obvious you prefer trading jabs with Dave, Fred, et al, I'll leave it to you. My encouragement to Fred and Dave is to find better ways to spend their time. Without provocation, eventually Bill, Ken, and Donnie may grow bored and quit posting as well...although if anyone could argue with themselves it might be one of you three. happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
173.245.56.155

Your Proven Point

June 29 2011, 11:20 PM 

TMP,

Thanks for contributing to the discussion in the past ... and now. We may sometimes disagree, but your politeness in conversation does not go unnoticed -- it is greatly appreciated.



 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
173.245.56.125

The Door

June 29 2011, 11:23 PM 

If this site is not to TMP's liking, he knows where the proverbial "door" is. That goes for all other complainers as well. wink.gif

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.245.56.179

Excellent Thought!

June 29 2011, 11:21 PM 

TMP,
You are quite right. I believe that without our interaction here, though, Bill, Donnie, and Ken wouldn't have any interaction whatsoever.
They pretty much run everyone else off.
PLUS....William Crump is worth watching....he is defintely a Show Stopper.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
173.245.56.125

Shine for Us

June 29 2011, 11:58 PM 

Since Dave claims that Donnie, Ken, and Dr. Crump run everyone off, perhaps Dave can outshine us by telling us about all the many people he has personally brought to this site to participate in "meaningful discussions." It's quite obvious that Dave himself hasn't participated in such discussions (sorry, but hollering that people are "cursed" and "sinners" doesn't pass muster), so surely he has persuaded many others to come here and stay here--NOT. wink.gif

 
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Sonny Elliot
(no login)
173.245.56.137

Our Position At Concerned Members

June 30 2011, 12:06 AM 

TMP, we rigid-ultra-rigid-ultra-legalistic-ultra-conservatives here at concerned members are 100% biblically correct, righteous and Christ-like in all our posts. We follow "the pattern" faithfully without any questions, uncertainties, or misunderstandings. We not only have the instrumental issue figured out (except for whether it is ok in one's home and whether it's ok if others are present and whether playing a Christian song would be worship), but also no handclapping (Scripture does not support), no lifting hands (Scripture does not support), showing emotion in worship (Scripture never condones), not to celebrate birthdays in our homes if we worship in them, not to have praise teams (and Brother Ken does not say no singing is permitted, readers just misunderstand and twist his statements), and a plethora of other issues. We believe any disagreement or different thought on any of these matters means you are the one wrong and not us and you have fallen from good standing with God.

Furthermore, Brother Bill Crump is our finest ambassador. He never acts immature and unlike Jesus. We unequivocally support and promote his remarks. He is compassionate, gentle, loving, positive and respectful in all his posts. Regardless of how others treat him, he always takes the high rode. Liberal malcontents need to take the plank out of their own eye and they will then see we do not even have a speck in our eyes. happy.gifwink.gifhappy.gif

-Sonny Elliot

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
173.245.56.245

Preach It!

June 30 2011, 10:23 AM 

That's right, Sonny boy. You tell 'em how "evil" the CM site is and how glorious and righteous Sonny with his smooth talk outshines everyone. Yeah, and if anyone believes that, we've got several bridges in New York City to sell them. wink.gif

 
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Sonny Elliot
(no login)
173.245.56.137

Our Position At Concerned Members (Part 2) - For Dave

June 30 2011, 11:25 PM 

Dave, the winking eye from Brother Crump is to always remind you that you have a plank in your eye and we here leaders at Concerned Members do not believe we have a speck in our eye. wink.gif

Also, our second finest ambassador following Brother Crump is Brother John Waddey. He writes superior articles on all Christian doctrines and issues of morality. Furthermore, his life, character, and service to the Lord's Church is 100% commendable and blameless. We should imitate him as he imitates Christ, especially in his lack of showing mercy to people who disagree with his biblical views on virtually any matter, because he has a biblical mandate to mark them, plus, Jesus is the ultimate marker. We must always mark and never edify or admit a matter as "disputable." No matter is too small to overlook, and we would never miss a major matter. Never.

-Sonny Elliot

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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