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Paul's letters on every tree!!!

June 28 2011 at 11:39 AM
Jimmy Wren  (no login)
from IP address 199.227.205.202

This question was asked and incorrectly answered on another thread...

Question: "When Paul counseled the churches and "warned" them, did he post the letter on every tree to get everyone's attention, including those outside the brotherhood? Did he send the letter just to the congregation? Yes!" (see other thread for complete comment)

One would be on slippery ground debating the use of trees but Paul's writings were known and read both in ALL the churches as well as outside the churches. Even the other apostles read Paul's letters.

The reading of Paul's letters caused one apostle to remark "...our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures..." 2 Peter 3:15-16, KJV

The reader will note that Peter says that Paul "hath written unto you" yet Peter is very much aware of the content and subject matter in ALL of Paul's writings!

 
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AuthorReply
Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Proof!

June 28 2011, 1:45 PM 

Jimmy, when you have the time, can you prove your statement of "Paul's writings were known and read both in ALL the churches as well as outside the churches."

Why and how would his writings be know to those outside the church?

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
99.72.200.99

Re: Proof!

June 29 2011, 5:03 PM 

"...they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures unto their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16, KJV

This passage should show you a dividing line as to those in the church and those outside the church. Those outside the church do have the Scriptures but they misuse the Scriptures.

The following verse warns those in the church of the danger of falling if they should follow the teachings of those who misued the Scriptures that they have. We read "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." 2 Peter 3:17

Pay close attention to the phrase "being led away with the error of the wicked."
****

Dave as to ALL the churchse you'll have to take Peter's word for it. Peter states "...in ALL his epistles..." Paul tells us that the care of ALL the churches come upon him daily.

"Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches." 2 Cor 11:28, KJV

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.245.56.179

Understand What You Read

June 29 2011, 11:51 PM 

Jimmy, if the brethren was having trouble understanding Paul's words, then you know that those outside the brotherhood would. Peter is making a point here. The letters from Paul were written and read by whom? THE BRETHREN!!!
How about the Eunuch who, in Acts 8 read Isaiah
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. Do you understand what you are reading? Philip asked.
32 This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading:

He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
33 In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth.[b]

34 The eunuch asked Philip, Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else? 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

Jimmy, we can understand him reading Isaiah, but not the letters from Paul to the churches. These letters to the churches, of rebukes and exhortations, weren't available, as was the Old Testament readings. Even the Old Testament readings weren't exactly for the masses. Reading was for the learned and afluent, as were the scrolls and parchments for which they could read.


2 Peter 3
"...even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you."

Who is Peter referring to when he ends the sentence with "you?"

THE BRETHREN!!!

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
173.245.50.83

Re: Understand What You Read

June 30 2011, 4:29 PM 

Dave are you calling those "being led away with the error of the wicked" brethren?

I would agree that they were brethren before being "led away," but not after.

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
173.245.50.83

Re: Understand What You Read

July 1 2011, 8:37 AM 

1.) It is clear that Paul's writings, which come roughly from the period A.D. 50 A.D. - 65 A.D., had already begun to circulate rather widely. 2 Peter 3:16 refers to "all his letters."

2.) Paul's letters had already attained quite a measure of authority. The reference to "the other Scriptures" certainly indicates that the writings of Christ's apostle to the Gentiles are seen as an extension of the authoritative Word.

3.) Third, Peter's reference to "hard sayings" in Paul's letters shows that, as early as sometime in the second half of the first century, Christians in the churches had a difficult time accepting or understanding or properly applying certain of Paul's sayings.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
173.245.48.89

Church is built upon the PROPHETS and APOSTLES

July 1 2011, 12:59 PM 

Dave, the eunuch was made ready for the church: Christ in Spirit made the future REST absolutely clear. Both Jew and Gentile and the eunuch who had an Isaiah scroll with him knew: here is some Isaiah found at the Dead Sea.

[linked image]

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.245.56.143

You Didn't Read What I Wrote

July 1 2011, 8:20 AM 

Did Paul author any of the Old Testament writings? What was the Eunuch reading from? The Old Testament. The epistles for the church, from Paul, were personal matters for THE CHURCH to deal with, not those outside of the congregation.

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
173.245.50.83

Re: You Didn't Read What I Wrote

July 1 2011, 6:01 PM 

Dave are Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, 1&2 Timothy, Titus, James, Jude, 2&3 John addressed to churches?

Dave the Word was not just taught and preached in churches in the first century.

Rom 10:18
"Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."

Col 1:23
"...be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.245.56.179

Wrong!

July 1 2011, 8:46 PM 

Jimmy,
Matters of the church STAY in the church.....always. You are trying your best to divert the discussion away from the main point here.

And by the way....you made my point very well....thank you.
Those books, from the NT, that you mentioned, were they epistles to certain congregations? No, they are not.

EVERYONE can see the letters today, including the books and letters that Paul wrote to the churches. It is called common sense.
Do you think that the Pharisees and Sadducees viewed those personal letters to those churches? No. Do you think that the Eunuch had a choice between the letter to the church at Corinth, from Paul, or Isaiah?

No.

At the time, those letters were meant ONLY for those specific churches. Just like this evil site here that broadcasts personal church matters, it is wrong to have the world to view these personal matters. It is sinful. Donnie and others didn't get the answer or decision that they wanted, so their immaturity led to this site.
Jimmy, God don't play. He will deal accordingly.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
173.245.56.155

Don't Forget the Root of the Problem

July 1 2011, 9:14 PM 

Dave,

"Personal church matters" [your reference] were initiated by those who have embraced the Change Movement -- the change agents themselves. Those faithful to Christ and His church have the responsibility and obligation to mark them (change agents) and all others that cause divisions in the church -- period.

This is really the matter that the ENTIRE BODY OF CHRIST must deal with -- thwart the efforts of those whose scheme is to transform the Lord's church into some denominational body unashamedly. What an insult to the One who established His own church.

If at all, it is the change agents who should be held responsible for intrusion and interference, causing division in the body of Christ -- NOT the congregation, NOT any "regular" member of any congregation, NOT a website.

In essence, Dave, what you're doing here is defending the change agents and their cause.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
173.245.56.185

Re: Wrong!

July 1 2011, 9:46 PM 

Be careful, Jimmy. If you don't eventually agree 100% with Dave, he'll hurl his favorite expressions at you: "You are cursed!" "You are a sinner!" and "Repent! "Repent!" Dave's been trying for more than a year to "reform" this site to his brand of change-agent "theology." Since he hasn't been successful, he's gone off the deep end by trashing, berating, and smearing this site and/or its conservative posters in every one of his posts. That's a lot of hate for one man to carry around.

OK, let's take care of a little business. Dave wrote: "Jimmy, God don't play." That should be: "Jimmy, God DOESN'T play." Be sure your subject and verb agree with each other. wink.gif


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
173.245.56.179

Re: Wrong!

July 2 2011, 10:17 AM 

Dr. Crump's post is a perfect example of what's wrong with this forum. The moderator has provided threads for trash talkers and even a thread for those who feel the need to make grammar corrections. It's high time to take some kind action. JMHO.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
173.245.56.125

Muzzle

July 2 2011, 2:40 PM 

Yes, Dave, this site even allows YOUR trash talk like, "You are cursed!" "You are a sinner!" "Repent! Repent!" Your talk trash when you condemn, berate, and smear those who disagree with you. If action is to be taken, it should be to put a permanent muzzle on your mouth, IMHO. wink.gif

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
173.245.56.167

Re: Muzzle

July 2 2011, 9:16 PM 

Dr. Crump, why the mean spirt? You don't represent Christ or this forum in a positive way. I'm surprised that anyone would post here. Change your heart, William.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
173.245.56.155

Romans Chapter One Is Proof!

July 2 2011, 4:42 AM 

Jimmy,

Thank you for posting this thread!!!

It is significant to note that the issue, as Dave Fields continues to vehemently argue, is not about "a brother against another brother" in a local congregation (such as in the church at Corinth).

We are dealing here with the schemes of the change agents operating in the brotherhood or in the church of Christ Jesus worldwide. These agents have done a masterful job of perverting the church of our Lord, of intruding and interfering with the affairs of congregations, of transforming the body of Christ into a denominational body, of causing division, etc.

Romans 1:1-16 supports your message:


  • Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
  • (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
  • Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord ...
  • By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
  • Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
  • To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
  • Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
  • I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
  • So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
  • For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
173.245.56.29

Re: Romans Chapter One Is Proof!

July 2 2011, 8:53 AM 

That says it all and should now put the matter to rest.

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
173.245.50.83

Re: Romans Chapter One Is Proof!

July 3 2011, 4:13 PM 

Amen!

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.245.56.179

Re: Paul's letters on every tree!!!

July 3 2011, 4:23 PM 

Donnie, does the "ENTIRE BODY OF CHRIST" include the unbelievers who come to this site and see this dreadful exhibition?

NO....and you know better.

Bill Crump, I noticed that you didn't care to answer anonymous......not that I blame you.....your personality doesn't lend to uttering lame excuses that would somehow make you look careless and bring you up for false interrogation. Avoidance before the truth....always.

1 Cor 6
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lords people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lords people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to courtand this in front of unbelievers!

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
173.245.56.83

Re: Paul's letters on every tree!!!

July 3 2011, 7:51 PM 

Dave, you do like to perseverate, don't you? Well, if it keeps you happy and off the pills... BTW, look up "perseverate" if you don't know what it means. wink.gif

 
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