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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.245.177

Re: Another Notch

September 25 2011, 3:49 PM 

Since Dave is evidently not in the "know," then he is foolish to attempt to teach. wink.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Come Home, Dave

September 25 2011, 3:55 PM 

Speak for yourself, Dave. Your scriptural ignorance by continually opposing what the church of Christ believes and practices is very evident. The church is simply following God's directives, not man's scriptural adjustment and manipulation. You're the one going against the grain. When you're ready to denounce your man-made teachings, you will be right on track.

Dave, you can teach [and one blindly accepts) what you should know is wrong and that the Scripture does not approve. But teaching that which is erroneous is not a move in the right direction.

You've heard of the latest polls about "the country heading in the wrong direction." Your support of the change agents' mission for the church to become "another denomination" is definitely "heading in the wrong direction."

The church needs you. Do not go against the grain any longer.

 
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Ken Sublet
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.68.117

Re: Come Home, Dave

September 25 2011, 5:50 PM 

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

It is a proven fact: reading whole thought patterns always turns around and bites you. Sorry bout that but the preachers and Phduhs learned you how to ignore the Mind of Christ.

[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublet
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.69.24

Criminals MUST boast of their Crime

September 25 2011, 7:54 PM 


Donnie wrote: ConcernedMembers was initiated by the owners upon/while witnessing the division in progress at the Madison congregation before their very own eyes. The change agents in the brotherhood had already accomplished their mission in transforming other mega churches in the brotherhood into Community Church-ism -- Oaks Hills Church [formerly "of Christ"] and The Hills Church (formerly Richland Hills Church of Christ), to list a couple of the mega churches. Madison, another mega church, was going to be their next victim. There were actually "church leaders" who were sent to observe and learn about Rick Warren's Saddleback Community Church in CA. They came back and implemented some of the culture-driven methodologies (actually SCHEMES) for numerical church growth.

Rick Atchley speaks of the progressive churches just as Snake Head played out at Madison: you begin slowly to add things knowing that it will upset their "comfort zone" but Hitler knew that if you can get a large group to engage in it the doubter is convinced by the MASS of the viper den. AFTER the progressive events everyone saw through the big lie "We will never add instruments to the plenary session until Christ comes." When they betrayes as Judas Goats (demons or Cappella) they excused themselves by saying that was then but this is now."

History is absolute: poetry or music is the OPPOSE of Logos or the Word. Music is recognized as lying and poets and song writers were FORBIDDEN in Athenian Law to write "TRUE HISTORY."

Rick Atchley: The era of the progressive Church of Christ is over.

Back in the 80s you could go to any major city, especially in the South, and you could find a progressive Church of Christ and if they would preach grace, and if they would put words on a screen, and if they would let divorced people place membership, they would grow.

The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that theyre going to find the least legalistic

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
....for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
....They never heard the sermons we heard.
....They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
....with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
....We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


Violent take the kingdom by VIOLENT MEANS and violence includes using music always identified in the Bible and elsewhere as soothsaying or sorcery. As Rick Atchley and the Madison agents confesses because they were CERTAIN that "we had stopped talking a cappella long enough that the younger generation" had been sucked in. Those violent men such as the Scribes Pharisees chaged the Word of god to make more money and to prevent Jesus from speaking as they had murdered the earlier prophets. The KNOW that the lambs have been conditioned so that they can't tell the difference between a Wolf (pederast) and a Sheep.

http://www.piney.com/Matthew.11.Kingdom.Heaven.Suffereth.Violence.html

People who will lie about the clear directs of Christ in the prophets andapostles in order to watch the "performers" and force you out of your own property WILL hurt you if you stand in their way.




 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

No Problem

September 26 2011, 1:36 PM 

Ken Sublett wrote "It is a proven fact: reading whole thought patterns always turns around and bites you. Sorry bout that but the preachers and Phduhs learned you how to ignore the Mind of Christ."

It is fine Ken....no problem. I realized a long while back that you are on the wrong team, so mainly I just ignore you. Sorry about that....

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.240.240.218

Re: No Problem

September 26 2011, 2:21 PM 

If Dave really ignored Ken, he wouldn't post anything in response. As it stands, Dave reads everything Ken writes, because Ken gets under Dave's skin--and Dave can't let that go.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Wowzers!

September 26 2011, 9:29 PM 

Donnie, I just happen to have read another paragraph of one of your letters way back when....concerning Keith Lancaster and his style of leading worship and have come to a very astute and perspicacious viewpoint.....you're are definitely not a conservative....and way too radical to be even called a legalist. I am not sure what to term your behavior and attitude anymore. I believe that we should go back to terming it "unChristlike."
Yep, that fits the bill.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

And at Madison--Keith Lancaster Begat the Praise Team

September 27 2011, 12:36 AM 

You should read more about Madison's former "Worship Leader," maybe. And you will see a bigger picture of what really happened at Madison.

The story of Madison just a little while ago is almost like an endless genealogy of events:


  1. In the beginning was the mighty Madison, the bright city on the hill.
  2. And Madison begat more "progressive" elders;
  3. And the progressive elders begat leaders to visit Rick Warren and his Saddleback Community Church;
  4. And the mentoring and learning process begat implementation of culture-driven schemes;
  5. And the schemes begat the firing of Pat Boone's brother Nick, the singing leader;
  6. And the firing begat the hiring of the dynamic "worship leader" Keith Lancaster;
  7. And the "worship leading" into God's holy presence begat Keith's Praise Team;
  8. And the choir, rhythmic clapping and instrumental music emulation/simulation begat holy entertainment;
  9. And holy entertainment begat permanent division (between "traditional" and "contemporary" worshipers);
  10. And the split begat confusing resolutions;
  11. And the confusion begat the firing of Keith Lancaster--but not the phasing out of the Praise Performers;
  12. And the firing begat the hiring of the new and young "worship leader" Brent Whitworth--this time to help secure the youth;
  13. And whatever it is that begat the request from the leadership for members to submit suggestions for growing the church that is still half its size from a decade ago.
I can tell, Dave, that you are learning slowly but surely. Don't be too concerned about the evil adjectives that you want to describe me.

 
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Dave
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Thanks for the Word

September 27 2011, 8:08 AM 

YES!!! [...] Evil! you are just plain evil!

+++++++++++++++++

Post has been moved to this thread: "Be Thou Loquacious."


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Sep 28, 2011 1:54 AM


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: A Summary Of What One Will Find Here

October 10 2011, 5:46 PM 

A major portion of the "summary of what one will find here" is concerning the evil attempts and objectives of the change agents, especially prominent ones in the brotherhood, of subverting the New Testament church of Christ Jesus into their man-concocted format and design. It's all about their lack of respect for God's plan for His church and for the truth about such plan as plainly and clearly laid out in the New Testament. These agents strongly feel that the church established and founded by Christ needs restructuring, reconstructing and transforming.

Is the church of our Lord a denomination? No!!! Should the church become a denomination in order to grow numerically? No!!! Do the change agents see the need for the church to become a denomination to grow numerically? Yes!!!

That's where the change agents are in error--by transforming the church of Christ into "another denomination."

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

What Do You Expect?

October 11 2011, 6:21 PM 

Donnie, who are you aiming this post at, besides all of those lurking "Change Agents?" No one is posting, can't you see that? Why would anyone come here to take part of this insidious unchristlike behavior that you and William and Ken put forth?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: What Do You Expect?

October 11 2011, 9:21 PM 

Dave,

This website was designed by the owners to inform congregations and individual Christians that there is a group of church dissidents "in the brotherhood," a.k.a. "change agents," who've determined for themselves and by their own standards that the church of Christ is just "another denomination" among hundreds and hundreds of religious bodies. If not, they'd like for the church of Christ Jesus to be just like a[nother] religious denomination.

As you and I know it, the church of Christ encompasses the thousands of congregations worldwide -- and one of these is the Clemson congregation of which you are a member and serve as one of its elders. The other elders of your congregation may or may not even be aware of the efforts and schemes of the change agents to restructure and modify the church that Jesus built. When it comes to you as an elder at Clemson, I'm not even sure that you have that awareness. You don't seem to be aware, if your postings are any indication. You haven't admitted it. If you are aware of their schemes (as much as what's been evidenced here for a decade), you don't negate them.

Dave, if you knew better, you would be attributing the "insidious unchristlike behavior" to your beloved "change agents." They're the ones putting Christ and His church to shame!!!

There's nothing to worry about responses from posters. But this site has good readership. Actually, we do not expect "lurking 'change agents'" to be reading or responding to our articles written by sound brethren about their (the agents') evil schemes. There are hundreds of these articles out there written about the evil, divisive schemes of these agents -- and they're yet unpublished here.

So, Dave, whose side are you on? Christ and His church? Or, the change agents who badmouth the church that Christ established? From all your messages, although you might claim to be on the side of Christ, in reality, your alignment is with the change agents!!!!

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.244.205

Re: What Do You Expect?

October 11 2011, 9:25 PM 

Dave still equates number of posts with number of readers. He thinks (hopes) that if few people post, then there must be few readers. He doesn't understand that FAR MORE people read this site than post here. That's typical for Internet message boards. More people are willing to be passive readers than active posters. Donnie is the one to publish the statistics, if he so chooses.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Jesus Came to Fulfill

October 14 2011, 4:48 PM 

Donnie,
While you consider me a change agent.....you got to know that I consider the apple dumpling concerned gang a bunch of legalists.
Just remember the biggest change agent of them all. Jesus Christ. You don't believe me? Read what the Jews thought of him. He changed everything for them and still does today. YET, all He did was to fulfill the law and prophecy. You, like the Jews, have your traditions that you can't stand to be tinkered with. The harm is not in the traditions themselves, but believing that your traditions are the only ones honored and accepted by God. The tradition of four part harmony for singing was started by man. Man also started the tradition of using instruments to accompany and aid the singing. Neither are sinful, yet the sin enters man when he believes one tradition to be AUTHORIZED by God and not the other.

Matthew 5
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.78.208

filfull means to FILL--full the prophecies

October 14 2011, 4:57 PM 

Matthew 5
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


The Law of Moses was ADDED because of Musical Idolatry. Moses said that they could no longer read or hear but ANOTHER prophet like Him would come and WOULD be heard (by those of truth.)

Jesus repudiated all of the sacrifices and instrumental noise in all of the prophets.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

THE CHURCH OF CHRIST IS BUILT UPON THE PROPHETS AND APOSTLES: not on the Lying pen of the Scribes (speakers, singers, players)

2Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Musical Compositions were not followed:

2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Peter 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost

If you don't follow Christ in the prophets and the prophecies made more certain by Jesus Christ and revealed through the Apostles then you CANNOT be a Christian.

Nevertheless, I congratulate you and ordained you a PhDuh because they all say the same thimg.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.245.156

Re: Jesus Came to Fulfill

October 14 2011, 5:09 PM 

Man invented multi-part harmony which is not sinful because God never addressed harmony in the New Testament.

Man also got the idea to ADD instruments to his Christian worship. The difference is that God DID address worship music in the New Testament, but He only specified singing. Had God only said, "Worship Me with music," then we would have been free to use singing with or without instruments, or with instruments alone. However much the change agents would object to the contrary, God's silence is NOT permissive. Therefore, IM is sinful. "God didn't say not to" is also another excuse that the change agents use. They couldn't care less that such a statement is found NOWHERE in the New Testament.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.78.208

Re: Jesus Came to Fulfill

October 14 2011, 5:48 PM 

That's because they cannot define DISCIPLE and EKKLLESIA or SYNAGOGUE.

That means that they cannot define the word CHRISTIAN.

I would challenge any "scholar" at whatever level they have reached to DEFINE "church."

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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