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Is pornography grounds for divorce?

September 25 2011 at 10:09 PM
Sonny  (no login)
from IP address 99.186.93.107

As everyone here knows, I am a centrist on the issue of IM, personally preferring acappella but not teaching that Scripture condemns worship with instrumenal accompaniment as long as one still sings from the heart. However, I have communicated on a few occasions my agreement with the mainstream on topics such as baptism and grace. Anyway, I am wanting input on the issue of pornography pertaining to "sexual immorality" and divorce in Matthew 19. The elders of a very large and respected congregation of which I have family in attendance have had an issue with some wives seeking divorce and the elders have said that pornography is not biblical grounds. I have not heard much teaching directly on this, but know that apparently pornography is a real issue in many marriages. I do not know what the mainstream thought is in the brotherhood but I thought that pornea was a reference to any sexual uncleanness or impurity. Any insight?

-Sonny

 
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AuthorReply
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Instrumental Music Prefaces This Thread

September 26 2011, 12:52 AM 

Since the initial message was prefaced with: (a) that a cappella is personally preferred by the poster; (b) that Scripture condemns not worship with IM accompaniment; (c) [which is essentially conveying] that whatever the Scripture does not condemn, it is condoned, approved and authorized by God; (d) that as long as one still sings from the heart.

I partially agree when it is a matter of personal preference. I love certain musical instruments. I can listen to a classical pianist play "Moonlight Sonata" all day long, all night long. As well as: Fur Elise, Arabesque, Blue Rondo a la Turk, etc.

However, personal preference has nothing to do with and has no place in God's directive to teach and admonish one another through singing or speaking the word of Christ when saints gather. Can you imagine the variety of "personal preferences" when 300 or 3,000 or 30,000 saints gather?

I can recite "Hail, Mary, Full of Grace, Mother of God" and still sing from the heart about the word of Christ to richly indwell me. I can bring my own soft and quiet musical instrument so as not to disturb others and play it as a personally preferred musical device ... and still sing from the heart. Hallelujah, I'm happy for doing it ... I still sing from the heart.

Then, there is that human philosophy and logic that what God does not condemn, it is condoned, approved and authorized by the same God. That's tantamount to saying, "Just do it since God does not say 'not to.'" So, think again.

The concept of being a "centrist" on a divisive doctrinal issue [and it shouldn't be in the non-IM church] is troubling.

OK, that was all in response to the preface (concerning instrumental music) to the initiated thread pertaining to pornography and divorce.

Let the discussion begin.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
98.87.24.113

Re: Instrumental Music Prefaces This Thread

September 26 2011, 8:24 AM 

I'm surprised that Sonny didn't throw in birthdays as another convenient little "preface" to this thread. wink.gif

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Smoke and Mirrors Again

September 26 2011, 1:31 PM 

Donnie said..."However, personal preference has nothing to do with and has no place in God's directive to teach and admonish one another through singing or speaking the word of Christ when saints gather. Can you imagine the variety of "personal preferences" when 300 or 3,000 or 30,000 saints gather?"

God's Word does not specify instrumental music as sinful anywhere in the 66 books. If God doesn't consider it sinful then man will not have credence over God's Word. The fact is....whether one sings with an instrument or without, the singing is still accomplished. If one man PREFERS to aid and accompany the singing with musical instruments and still adheres to the directive of teaching and admonishing one another, then another man PREFERS to use the PA to aid and accompany the singing and another man prefers to use song books to aid and accompany the singing and another man prefers to use a building to house all of GOd's saints to sing and another man wants to employ four part harmony to aid the singing. All of these are preferences used to aid the singing. The singing is accomplished regardless of the aids, which is what God has directed.




 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.67.226

good point.

September 26 2011, 2:11 PM 

Dave: that's what my wife said when she wanted to add arsenic instead of creamer into my coffee.

Fornication in the spiritual message most often speaks of idolatry: if you ADORE the composition of the preacher and musician more than you adore the Words of God then you are an idolatry. Sorry you cannot hear or read the LAW against "vocal or instrumental rejoicing' or "elevated speaking" when a Holy Convocation is held on REST days. There is no record of that LAW ever being violated although Jesus identified the Scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites by reference to Idaiah and to EZekiel 33 who NAMES speakers, singers and instrument players where Isaiah 58 outlaws seeking your own pleasure or speaking your own words. Everytime you say that there are no commands you just make the VEIL thicker

A man who adores and engages in porno has broken the bond which can only be determined by the offended person.

There is no LAW because there is no Case Law in the Bible or early church history of elders presuming to be judge and jury in this personal relationship.

The elders are commanded to teach that which has been taught. They will have to remove the spiritual adultry of corrupting the word meaning "selling learning at retail" and also meaning adultery before they are competent to get involved in literal "breaking of wedlock." That which is broken like a water glass can rarely beput together again.

 
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R*
(no login)
98.81.118.42

Re: good point.

September 26 2011, 4:39 PM 

A man who adores and engages in porno has broken the bond which can only be determined by the offended person.

There is no LAW because there is no Case Law in the Bible or early church history of elders presuming to be judge and jury in this personal relationship.

**************************************************

I can agree with Ken on the above statements.happy.gif

I really think the MSOP views (breaking up families) are wrong.

 
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R*
(Login R...)
98.81.118.42

Re: good point.

September 26 2011, 8:21 PM 

Well, I finally agree with Ken on something and the thread gets dumped. OMEN? happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

And the Thread Gets Dumped

September 26 2011, 8:51 PM 

This thread ix likely to grow and extend -- it has instrumental music in the discussion, doesn't it?

BTW, you started to say something about the MSOP. What about it?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.240.240.218

Re: Is pornography grounds for divorce?

September 26 2011, 2:24 PM 

It looks like Sonny really intended this to be just another weary thread about IM but threw in pornography and divorce as a ruse. wink.gif

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Re: Is pornography grounds for divorce?

September 26 2011, 7:58 PM 

It looks like some are addicted to arguing against instrumental music. Perhaps this is what some think about 24/7? I am starting the thread again (2nd edition) because I certainly was asking a question about pornography being grounds for divorce. There is more to the bible than just worship wars gents.

-Sonny

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.8.50

Re: Is pornography grounds for divorce?

September 26 2011, 8:15 PM 

If Sonny didn't want to start another 24/7 IM war, why did he choose to mention it as a "preface" to a completely unrelated topic about divorce resulting from porn in marriage? Sonny brought this down on his own head.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

An Afterthought

September 26 2011, 8:45 PM 

We've all heard of hindsight, Monday night quarterbacking, an afterthought, etc. It was probably something he didn't expect to "expand." So, he's made the revision.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.8.50

Re: An Afterthought

September 26 2011, 9:12 PM 

Since Sonny has [wisely] revised his thread about divorce resulting from porn in marriage and removed any reference to IM, then this present thread is superfluous. It will only attract posts that rehash IM. Because this thread is not what Sonny intended, why not delete it?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

More Issues Than Instrumental Music

September 26 2011, 11:16 PM 

One person's prerogative or attraction may not be someone else's. If the thread "will only attract posts that rehash IM," so let it happen.

The author is entitled to removing other issues than pornography and divorce. He's chosen to leave the following matters which are still here for discussion: instrumental music, "as long as one sings from the heart," grace, baptism, "personal preferences" when the saints assemble, the dangers and risk of being a centrist on doctrines and practices.

These are a lot of issues that can be discussed or debated.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

"Worship Wars" -- Not Again

September 26 2011, 8:15 PM 

Good point about revising and resubmitting the real issue you wanted discussed.

We encourage topical Bible studies and other religious issues -- baptism (biblical) or grace (biblical) or qualifications of elders (biblical) or praise team (non-biblical), instrumental music (non-directive from God although mentioned in the Bible) or the Lord's Supper (biblical), etc.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

IM is Not a Preface

September 26 2011, 9:12 PM 

Definition of Preface: noted critic has written a short preface to her story to explain some of the historical background>

That wasn't a preface William. Did the IM have anything to do with the subject of divorce for pornography? Did it have anything to do with explaining the historical background of the subject? No, and hence it would be a side-note.

William, should we take this to the spelling and grammar woodshed?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

PA Is Not a Musical Instrument

September 26 2011, 11:03 PM 

Is this an invitation to a battle with words ... again?

 
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Ken Sublet
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.73.218

You MUST dance and reject jesus

September 26 2011, 11:25 PM 

Consistent with Psalm or Halal 150, the praise word was used to MAKE WAR. If you use it you are BOUND to dance that naked spiral dance of David. He and all of the kings and musicians had been turned over to WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST. So, if you use the Levites as a pattern to steal the church house of owners, you MUST dance on a string for ever and ever.

I was researching the statement "Put to death your members on the earth." Almost always that word speaks of musical MELODY which is NEVER psallo but MELOS. All of the "members" are the same ones induced by the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. In Romans 1 it was the musical idolatry which brought on all of the members or "parts" of the fall from grace.

[linked image]

The same MUSICATORS who boast abount making worship wars ALSO insist that when the ENEMIES of Jesus heard that Jesus "drank" they slander and say that "Jesus drank wine." In His little Jesus meek and mild, he said YOU ARE LIARS.


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.210.19

Re: IM is Not a Preface

September 27 2011, 12:01 AM 

I am truly amazed at Dave's ignorance of the English language. I must instruct him about "preface." Had he turned to dictionary.com, he would have seen the following definitions for "preface" (noun):

1. a preliminary statement in a book by the book's author or editor, setting forth its purpose and scope, expressing acknowledgment of assistance from others, etc.

2. an introductory part, as of a speech.

3. something preliminary or introductory: The meeting was the preface to an alliance.

4. Ecclesiastical . a prayer of thanksgiving, the introduction to the canon of the Mass, ending with the Sanctus.

A preface is NOT limited to an author's introduction to a story; a preface is ANYTHING that is introductory. Therefore, Sonny's comments about IM were a preface (albeit not on topic) to his comments about divorce as a result of porn in marriage.

Also, Dave said Sonny's comment about IM was a "side-note" [sic]. That also is incorrect. A "side note" (which is NOT hyphenated) is, according to dictionary.com, "a notation made in the margins or sides of a page; also called marginal note." Sonny's IM comment was NOT in the margins; it was part of the text that PREFACED his comments about divorce.

I believe Dave has been sufficiently chastised in the woodshed away from the SGP thread.

To Donnie: Yes, it looks like Dave has sidetracked this thread to yet another topic (first, IM from Sonny; then, word play from Dave). Maybe the title of this thread should be changed to "Potpourri." wink.gif

 
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