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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Exposure of the Change Agents and Their Followers Continues

November 25 2011, 8:31 PM 

Dave,

I have the veiwership stats -- you do not. Since viewership has been steady, if not rising, it is an indication of the level of interest in this website, whether or not YOU post and continue to post anti-church of Christ messages. You are fooling yourself into thinking, just because you are a church leader, that YOU yourself (personally) share the views of churches of Christ worldwide. You do not, but/although your own congregation does share those views.

You keep bringing up Madison as if it did not experience the upheaval caused by the change agents. Remember, Dave, that there was division in the leadership itself as decision was being made as either: (1) to go forward with the CHANGE AGENTS' Community Church-driven approach to grow the church numerically or (2) to reject the damaging cause and propaganda of the change agents. Unfortunately, by a slim majority and by discounting what the other elders upheld, the alignment was with the CHANGE AGENTS. The rest of the facts is obvious: half of the membership left.

So, as long as you remain delusionary as to what really happened, I will always remind you of the facts. You will not get away with this.

There you have it, Dave. And you may be correct in bringing it up again and again, as the truth of what happened just needs to be reinforced again and again.

A website that informs congregations and individual members of the church of the anti-church of Christ propaganda of the change agents simply means that it is pro-church of Christ.

The change agents are anti-church of Christ. You are pro-change agents; therefore, you are anti-church of Christ. I have never heard nor seen it in writing that you support the church of Christ and its stance against mechanically operating musical devices in its assemblies and against denominationalism. The change agents are pro-denominationalism; they are pro-instrumental music; they are pro-restructuring the church of Jesus Christ; they are pro-modifying God's principles and directives. They are anti-church of Christ. Period. Until you distance yourself from the change agents, you will be sharing their own agenda for the church that you claim to be a member of.

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

stuck in the past

November 26 2011, 9:04 PM 

Brother Cruz remains stuck in the past. Below is part of his message to Brother Dave. Brother Dave is right and there are not even any Madison sisters or brothers who post messages here anymore, so they are not listening to Brother Cruz and his influence has become obsolete with the congregation. His attendance and presence has no bearing on the eldership and direction of the church. The church has been doing well and continues to add ministries. Also, the congregation is out of debt, which is allowing them to maximize their resources for the kingdom. -Sonny


Brother Cruz to Brother Dave:
"You keep bringing up Madison as if it did not experience the upheaval caused by the change agents. Remember, Dave, that there was division in the leadership itself as decision was being made as either: (1) to go forward with the CHANGE AGENTS' Community Church-driven approach to grow the church numerically or (2) to reject the damaging cause and propaganda of the change agents. Unfortunately, by a slim majority and by discounting what the other elders upheld, the alignment was with the CHANGE AGENTS. The rest of the facts is obvious: half of the membership left."


 
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Dave
(no login)
64.234.85.24

A Sin Today is a Sin Tomorrow.

November 26 2011, 2:55 PM 

Donnie said that "A website that informs congregations and individual members of the church of the anti-church of Christ propaganda of the change agents simply means that it is pro-church of Christ."

And the Truh is that a website, such as this one, that condemns congregations and individual members of the church of Christ, simply means that it is anti-church of Christ. If Donnie or anyone else has something against a brother, a sister, a leader, or anyone else from the church, then they should keep it within the church. To bring it here, where even pagans can view.....is sinful.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.73.41

Preach the Word or Old Paths D

November 27 2011, 12:41 AM 

2 Timoothy 4:2 Preach the Word

http://www.piney.com/2.Timothy.4.2.Preach.The.Word.html

A preacher is a herald: he does not have a place to HEAP UP STAFF MEMBERS as Controllers of your lives and money.
Preach as "sermo" means in a conversational style. That means CENI with no room to add dogma or ACTS.
The WORD or Logos is the opposite of poetry or music.

A church who adds performance staff and performance worshipers CANNOT be an ekklesia or synagogue or Christ. It is PATTERNED after the temple house and staff which was patterned after Tyre and Babylon.

One Key to the Old Paths is that that always speaks of the revealed Word of God:
In addition to God supplying all that we need for life and Godliness He also provides a way to escape the robbers of temples and fleecers of widow's purses. Those Jesus named hypocrites: preachers, singers and instrument players which is also HIS MARK of the Scribes and Pharisees--doctors of the Law.

Peter made the Prophets by Christ and fulfilled by Jesus and revealed to the Apostles as THAT UPON WHICH the Church of Christ muyst be built: The ROCK which was Christ Who defined the church inclusively and exclusively as A School of His Word only.

Those who have been MARKED as hypocrites make a major industry out of slandering godly people who whatever their failures as students does not permit ONE PERSON THEY CAN NAME who would infiltrate, lie, cheat and steal the property of the owners. Those attack literally and physically to seduce the youth but whine when others point out that the "kings/queens have no clothes." Naked of bible knowledge, morality, ethics: they are OF the world and not subject to the call.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

Even when you light it up with neon lights they will never, can never confess that they have produced something prophesied and of Biblical Proportions. And perhaps the time is right: I will hope and pray for it.


That proves to the godly people that the WORD of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles is the SOLE foundation upon which to build or Teach about the Church of Christ. Delusional people will still bark out that God has not defined anyting and left it all up to them and a hallucinated spirit person who gives them visions and speaks audibly and tells them that God commanded THEM to intimitate and FORCE the Levites who were soothsayers with instrumental noise as THEIR patternism deliberately sowing discord. Most people with enough energy with BLOGS are ditto heads but they are lying about God and to god: I suspect that God did send a Lying Spirit to them.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

The Message of the Change Agents Subverting the Church Continues

November 27 2011, 4:25 AM 

This is in response to Sonny's post "stuck in the past" (November 26 2011, 9:04 PM):


Sonny,

The paragraph you quoted from me cannot be refuted. That remains factual and cannot be distorted nor altered by you or Dave or anyone else. As I said, whenever the deluded Dave brings up Madison, the same true message will be broadcast.

Your assessment of my past at Madison, or even at present, is absolutely correct. Let me add to your remark (and I've said this before) that I'd be the first one to admit that this website came into existence, unfortunately, long after half of the membership had already left the congregation. So, the half (about 1500 members) that left Madison to seek fellowship somewhere else did not even know about this site. Is that making sense to you, Sonny?

The ones (from the other half who remained at Madison) who posted in the earlier months weren't even aware of the "presence" of the change agents. They liked the changes, they thought. But many of the posters have also left since. (Don't forget the fact that the conservatives are the silent majority -- they are, by nature, not into "making noise." The conservatives are NOT in the "shallow water" group -- keep that in mind.)

It is true that I am not popular at Madison, and I like it that way. But that doesn't mean that I am not committed to informing the brotherhood the best way I know how of the change agents subverting the church of Christ Jesus. [I realize it will take time for you and Dave to ever GRASP that act of perversion on the part of the change agents -- if you both ever reach that point.]

Oh, "the church has been doing well," did you say? So, what method of measuring success did you use? The number of ministries? Actually, the congregation has been doing that all along. Hmmm. I thought there was an announcement from the pulpit not too long ago that the leadership has decided that there has been too much emphasis on the various "ministries" (drama, "worship" ["worship as a ministry" was unheard of in the early church], etc.) -- and less on evangelism. How true and correct. In conjunction with that decision was the concern for "staff infection." Again, how true and correct.

Now, Sonny, I think there should be more concern over the 1500 members that left than the "worship ministry" -- an attempt at an executive production of "worship made for TV." How can they be brought back? What can the leadership do to handle the process of recovery?

There ought to be a real in-depth look at the damage that the change agents have done to the church -- I am speaking to you and Dave.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.74.2

Less they forget

November 27 2011, 2:08 PM 

Lest people forget, Madison's leadership teamed with Rubel Shelly in the so-called Jubilee Movement. Just after the pope saw Jubilee 2K as the time when the daughter churches -- they like the church of Christ -- would come back under the mother hen, some preachers decided to go ecumenical and have their own Jubilee New Paths. That envisioned (a face to face revelatinm) that they would have to do an end run around the older people (who bought the property and paid their salaries) and work on the YOUTH.

1. Their goal was a "Rubber Wineskin" which would include everyone who agreed on the "unity in diversity" whch readers 101 knew to be a lie against the Word and therefore Christ. You hear that mouthed on ALL of the forums as a "Just Jesus" patternism.

2. Their goal was a "New Syle of music--CCM" which just exactly defines the BEAST in Revelation. Their first step (intentionally) was to expose the youth to "christian bands" and to impose the repulsive Musical Worship Team which would help "lead you into the presence of God." I noted that the Musical Ministry at ACU "learns" you how to TEAM with the Holy Spirit and minister through music. You probably can get a Phd just about the time that the musicators and agitators decided to USURP the role of elders and demote them to being "shepherd of the Senior Pastor" chosen "by the providence of God, superior in training and charismatically fit to be THE leaders. That flowed out of Belmont enhanced by Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly who helped "prepped" the Jubilee. My old elders finally opted out when Max Lucado came to wring the water out of baptism. Hopefully a new race of elders will discover their unique role as the only PASTOR-TEACHERS along with the Deacons.

2. A broader role for women including preachers and elders and Musical Mediators to stand in the place of Jesus.
3. to meet the LUST of the people they HEAPED "ministers" on the backs of honest workers to REGULATE their work time and money. These are almost alwayss the too-close-for-comfort friends of the Senior Pastor.
4. This, in most musical deviants, has meant firing the male vocational deacons and even HIRING "ministers and deaconesses." The Willow Creek Pattern they followed would make you into a "complimentarian" until you had worked, submitted and paid your wan into the "ASSIMILATED" which YOU would give your money and YOU would have NO role in deciding how it was spent. At Madison this was the invasion of a "Leadership and church in exile" who tried to take over Madison with the Purpose Driven Cult. That included the proposal to sign a Covenant which vowed that YOU would never question an elder unless it was a "Salvation issue." The Purpose Driven Cult used the baseball diamond where you must work your way to the pitcher's mound. That was the local thwarted purpose.

Madison was the TRIP POINT for the Band of Merry Men to try to RESTRUCTURE all of the Church of Christ into defacto Christian Churches bonded with the NACC (The Tulsa Soul Winning Workshop finally confessed that their goal was union with the NACC). All of the massive sowing of discord especially during this last decado was triggered by some of the misleaders at Madison. The Preacher at the time agreed to a CONFESSION OF SIN for dividing the church over instruments. To his credit, he may just be ignorant of the Bible and recorded history.

http://www.piney.com/StoneCampbConfession.html

Madison is still looked upon as a major leader in this Mess Movement. Until this is corrected people will continue to infiltrate for a hostile takeover of other churches.

FURTHERMORE, THE MADISON THREAD IS WHERE THE ANTI-CHURCH OF CHRIST THROW MOST OF THEIR FALSE TEACHING PROMOTING THE ORIGINAL JUBILEE GOAL. THE TITLE CANNOT BE CHANGED AND THOSE WHO CARE WILL NOTICE THAT THE BIBLE TEACHING IS GENERIC AND IF THE SHOW DOESN'T FIT.

AGAIN, NONE OF THIS IS ANTI-CHURCH OF CHRIST: YOU SIMPLY HAVE LOST YOUR LAMPSTAND AT THE SAME TIME CHRIST REMOVES THE SPEAKERS, SINGERS AND INSTRUMENT PLAYERS FROM HIS CHURCH: WHY NOT, ALL RECORDED HISTORY CALLS THEM FRUITY SORCERERS.

 
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Dave
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Sinful Yesterday Sinful Today Sinful Also

November 27 2011, 8:23 PM 

Donnie said "It is true that I am not popular at Madison, and I like it that way. But that doesn't mean that I am not committed to informing the brotherhood the best way I know how of the change agents subverting the church of Christ Jesus."

Donnie, you would think that I am going to pride myself on knowing that you aren't poplar at Madison. I will not do so. I thank God for the humility that he gives me in doing so.
What I really wanted to point out here in these two sentences is where you said "But that doesn't mean that I am not committed to informing the brotherhood the best way I know how....."

Donnie, if it were JUST the brotherhood that you were informing, then it would not be a problem. When you bring the dirty laundry here to air.....not only the brotherhood will view it, but also the pagans see this. They love seeing this Donnie. They see this fighting and bickering within the brotherhood and laugh......and are glad that they aren't a part of the church. YOU have that on your head! This site is sinful!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.74.2

And they all said, Amen and amen!

November 27 2011, 8:51 PM 

Lord we all bow down and praise you for David's Humility.

The role of a disciple: one of faith or of truth, one NOT of the world's population or the race of vipers or the crooked race OUT OF WHICH Jesus calls those who have grasped the meaning of FATHER is to absorb the shock and hostility once heaped upon Jesus in the flesh now heaped upon anyone who would just settle for teaching the Word as it HAS BEEN TAUGHT or as written for our learning. If you deprive the Silversmiths of their living they WILL hurt you real bad.

[linked image]

[linked image]

See Isaiah 50 to see how CHRIST in Spirit defined the musical attack agents.

http://www.piney.com/Isaiah.50.Smitten.Plucked.html



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 166.248.74.2 on Nov 27, 2011 9:04 PM


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Dave Thinks: The Community Church Movement (with Its Actors, the Change Agents) Is ...

November 28 2011, 1:45 AM 

... a Religious Phenomenon in the Church of Christ

This is in response to Dave's misuse (ignorance) of Scripture in his post titled: "A Sin Today is a Sin Tomorrow." -- November 26 2011, 2:55 PM. Dave has his own IDEA of what is sin or sinful -- and he thinks he knows more than what the Scripture reveals:
And the Truh is that a website, such as this one, that condemns congregations and individual members of the church of Christ, simply means that it is anti-church of Christ. If Donnie or anyone else has something against a brother, a sister, a leader, or anyone else from the church, then they should keep it within the church. To bring it here, where even pagans can view.....is sinful.

Dave,

  1. 2 John 1 [9,10] -- Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed. Watch out for the change agent, e.g., Max Lucado [witn Baptist doctrine tendencies] who believes in another doctrine that the forgiveness of sins in the blood of the Lamb OCCURS PRIOR TO the burial with Christ in baptism.

  2. Other passages:

    ----- Eph. 4 [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    ----- 1 Tim. 1 [3] As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, [10] For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

    ----- 1 Tim. 4 [1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [6] If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. [13] Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. [16] Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

    ----- 2 Tim. 4 [2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

    ----- Heb. 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.


  3. The change agents are anti-church of Christ because they now want the church to be just like the denominations -- change the doctrine of Christ and His apostles; acquire various forms of beliefs and teachings from their mentors: Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, et al, and use their culture- and purpose-driven methodologies to "grow the church"; behave like the appealing Charismatics and denominational neighbors; etc.

  4. Overall effect, Dave? The change agents have damaged the church very heavily. They have USED MEGA CHURCHES OF CHRIST as central mission points or headquarters to spread their anti-church of Christ messages:

    1. The Oak Hills Church (formerly "Oak Hills Church of Christ") in San Antonio, TX broke ties with churches of Christ, according to the Christian Chronicle, and has been excluded from the directory of churches of Christ. (Research and see for yourself if Rev. Max Lucado [loving the title] still have a major leadership role in that church. Oh, when it dropped "of Christ" from its name, and the close ties with the Community Church!!!)

    2. The Hills Church of Christ (formerly "Richland Hills Church of Christ") in TX has recently been removed from the directory. (Oh, the close ties with the the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church!!!)

    3. Madison Church of Christ, TN, has had its own share of experiences in the process of transformation as it is either: (a) incomplete and may never be completed or (b) still work in progress. It has undergone a number of events and experiences: (a) the Saddleback Community Church effect caused division in the leadership, and several elders either resigned or went elsewhere; (b) caused the church upheaval in the last decade when 1500 members [half of its membership] left; (c) song leader Nick Boone was fired because he was "unable to keep up with the future Jeff-Walling-type youth crowd; (d) Keith Lancaster was hired as "worship leader" and fired; (e) Brent Whitworth was hired as the new "worship leader" as Lancaster [was] departed to worship-lead at a very tiny congregation; (f) the Worship Team (a.k.a. Praise Team/CHOIR) has not been phased out--a mark toward the next step: instrumental music; (g) the divided "worship services" between "traditional" and "contemporary"; etc.; etc.

    Is the Madison leadership that willing to take the risk of implementing musical instruments in any of the assemblies? We'll see.


  5. Dave, you just embarrassed yourself when you said: "If Donnie or anyone else has something against a brother, a sister, a leader, or anyone else from the church, then they should keep it within the church. To bring it here, where even pagans can view.....is sinful."

    I am not popular, remember? Let's see -- who was the leader that Donnie had something against? Help me out here as my memory seems to be failing me. Again, let's see, you, Dave, as an elder of your own congregation, be better at presenting your own argument. OK, I will help you. Remember the fact the elders themselves were divided? Was one group of elders forgiving of the other group, and vice versa? Did the leadership not take responsibility for the church's membership dwindling to half its size?


  6. Dave, it is this website's right to offer space for those individual churches that volunteered information concerning what happened at their own home congregations because of your beloved "CHANGE AGENTS" interfering with and intruding upon their affairs.

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/187120/#list

    They're being afforded that privilege as equally as you're being afforded the same privilege of expressing your and your change agents' anti-church of Christ messages.


  7. Dave, speaking of the pagan world, don't worry about them. You yourself don't even grasp the enormity of the change agents damaging the church. And you're expecting the pagan world to grasp anything that you yourself are having difficulty grasping?

Dave, you may consider the Community Church Movement a religious phenomenon. Go ahead. Dare me and bring up Madison again. As I have said, I will respond with the facts just the same.

Know what, Dave? This is THE SIN: CAUSING "DIVISIONS and offences CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE WHICH YE HAVE LEARNED" (Rom. 16:17).

SOLUTION to THE SIN:

(1) MARK THEM WHICH CAUSE DIVISIONS;
(2) AVOID THEM.


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: Article on Liberal Snobism: Grace Centered Magazine

November 28 2011, 10:14 AM 

1 Corinthians 6
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the UNGODLY for judgment instead of before the Lords people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lords people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to courtand this in front of unbelievers!

Donnie, THIS is the Scriptural Condemnation of this site. You have not acted in a manner in which the Scriptures have told you to do. You brought the church's matters and concerns here for the UNGODLY to view. It is sinful.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Condemnation of This Site?

November 28 2011, 12:46 PM 

Dave,

  1. If a site (or publication, newspaper, journal or any other media type) were to be condemned, the liberal, progressive, anti-church of Christ, pro-denominational inclusive "Grace Centered Magazine" would be the first one to go. Try "freedom of speech" to do the condemnation of a religious forum, and let me know when you've been successful.

  2. This website is NOT a person having a dispute with "another" person (I Cor. 6:1).

  3. Rather, it is the anti-church of Christ change agents having a dispute with the church. What is not a dispute with the church (the body of Christ, the saints) when the change agents infiltrate, subvert, divide congregations in order to accomplish their goal to transform and restructure the church?

  4. As I have said, if you (yourself) are incapable of grasping the nature of the damage inflicted by the Community Church/Change Movement upon the church, how would you expect the ungodly to grasp the same?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.73.218

Notification

November 28 2011, 12:59 PM 

Annie Mouse is almost a decade late to catch on

http://www.piney.com/DonnieCruzLet.html


 
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Dave
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Look in the Mirror for a Change

November 28 2011, 1:11 PM 

Replies to 1-3

1. If a site (or publication, newspaper, journal or any other media type) were to be condemned, the liberal, progressive, anti-church of Christ, pro-denominational inclusive "Grace Centered Magazine" would be the first one to go. Try "freedom of speech" to do the condemnation of a religious forum, and let me know when you've been successful.

Answer to #1
Donnie, you are not only under the civil laws of this world. You claim to be a Christian; THEREFORE you are under the laws of God and His Son. You certainly can post most anything you want about most anyone as it concurs with "freedom of speech" with our civil laws in this country. 1 Corinthians 6 states otherwise. You are wrong to do so. Why would you mention Grace Centered Magazine? I don't read it nor post to it.


2. This website is NOT a person having a dispute with "another" person (I Cor. 6:1).

3. Rather, it is the anti-church of Christ change agents having a dispute with the church. What is not a dispute with the church (the body of Christ, the saints) when the change agents infiltrate, subvert, divide congregations in order to accomplish their goal to transform and restructure the church?

Answer to #2 and #3
That answer from you, Donnie, is pathetic. PERSONS, individuals.....make up a church. You are condemning congregations AS WELL AS individuals. Remember this too....those who you claim to be change agents ONLY consider themselves to Christians.....just as you do. Your condemnation is because YOU condemn them.

1 Corinthians 6
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lords people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lords people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to courtand this in front of unbelievers!

By condemning others......you have condemned yourself.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Listen to Yourself for a Change

November 28 2011, 1:54 PM 

Dave,

a. Weren't you the one who said: "THIS is the Scriptural Condemnation of this site"? Maybe, "Grace Centered Magazine" is the site you can also post to. They'll welcome you there with open arms, I think. I know that Al Maxey is one of your favorite change agents, as you have posted a number of his articles. Are you familiar with Maxey's Reflections?

b. You shouldn't waste your time teaching me what the church is comprised of -- after I had just said: "the body of Christ, the saints."

c. You have not heard from me: "I condemn..." as I let the Scripture do the condemning.

d. On the other hand, how many times have YOU CONDEMNED me or this website? Countless times!!!!!

e. For that reason [d], your own words will return to you as you said: "By condemning others......you have condemned yourself" -- your own words, Dave.

 
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Dave
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Bring It On!

November 28 2011, 1:21 PM 

Ken said "Lord we all bow down and praise you for David's Humility."
Indeed Ken.

King David was full of humility.
2 Samuel 12
13 Then David said to Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD."

I thought that you knew the Scriptures Ken. Why did you need that post about David's humility?

Got your tree up yet Ken?
Santy Claus is coming soon....

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.73.218

Trees?

November 28 2011, 1:31 PM 

My wife does trees, gifts I am supposed to give someone, dinner, dishes, talk. I take a deep breath.

I understand Dave, I told God I had decided to be humble. He said, "Ken, you have cause."

You should write a thread about how you achieved humility.

I knew a preacher who developed a Seminar on "How to Achieve Spirituality." That's about like ACU developing a degree program on "How to partner with the Spirit in doing musical worship."

I get the image of a bumble bee calling in a C5A to assist it in moving a tank to Iraq.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Why did you need that post about David's humility?

November 28 2011, 1:33 PM 

Dave,

I'll let Ken correct me if I'm wrong about this:

In an earlier post, you said: "I thank God for the humility that he gives me in doing so."

Perhaps, Ken was trying to compare and contrast David Fields' humility and King David's humility? LOL.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.73.218

Psalm 151

November 28 2011, 1:50 PM 

David said that God loved him because he was always perfectly righteous.

And also Psalm 151

I WAS the least among my brethren; and the youngest in my father's house; and I kept also my father's sheep. My hands made the organ; and my fingers joined the psaltery.

3 And who told it to my LORD? [Arab.: And who is he who taught me?]
The LORD himself, he is my Master, and the Hearer of all that call upon him. He sent his angel, and took me away from my father's sheep; and anointed me with the oil of his anointing. [Others, the oil of his mercy.] 5 My brethren were taller and more beautiful than I; nevertheless the LORD delighted not in them.I went out to meet the Philistine, and he cursed me by his idols. [Arab.: IN the strength of the LORD I cast three stones at him. I smote him in the forehead, and felled him to the earth.] 8 And I drew out his own sword from its sheath, and cut off his head, and took away the reproach from the children of Israel.

 
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Dave
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64.234.85.24

Give it Another Shot Donnie....

November 28 2011, 2:22 PM 

Donnie said "You have not heard from me: "I condemn..." as I let the Scripture do the condemning."

You didn't have to say you condemn!

You condemned them by calling them "minions"....by calling it "holy entertainment,"
by judging their hearts just because they prefer to lift holy hands and clap and use praise teams.

Shall I go on?

The Scriptures from you have NEVER condemned those who worship differently from you. You do NOT have, nor ever will have the backing of the Scriptures to do so.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

"Shall I go on?" You asked. Yes, you are permitted to do that.

November 28 2011, 7:15 PM 

Dave,

Learn your parts of speech.

"Minion" is a noun; "entertainment" is a noun.

"Condemn" is a verb.

You have never heard me say: "I condemn."

On the other hand, I've heard you say: "You've sinned ... you sinned ... I condemn you ... you lie ..." -- countless times.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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