Article on Liberal Snobism: Grace Centered MagazineNovember 16 2011 at 3:11 PM
|Jasper (Login golfonfriday)|
from IP address 188.8.131.52
Just curious what some of you think about this article:
It talks about how "Christian" liberals talk a good game with acceptance and grace but when it comes to someone more conservative than them they name call, insult and question their salvation. Things they would call judgmental.
Kind of suprised me it was on Grace Centered.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.108.40.206 on Nov 19, 2011 12:49 PM|
Good Try, Jasper
|November 16 2011, 6:00 PM |
A review of Joe Beam belittling the OLD PATHS concept is on Grace Centered Magazine.
A Tentative review of Seek The Old Paths has been posted here in rough form.
Throughout the Prophets and Apostles SEEKING THE OLD PATHS is stated over and over and defined as teaching only the Word of Christ Who inspired the Prophets and the prophecies made more perfect by Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus as Son spoke only what He heard from God the Father who "breathed" His words which were articulated by Jesus as the personified WORD or Logos of God.
Jesus in His post-glorified state as The Holy Spirit would never speak anything Jesus in the flesh had not spoken. Paul and the others spoke ONLY what they had been taught as eye-- and ear-- witnesses. Peter left this as the MARK so that false teachers coulld be identified.
Because ekklesia or synagogue (Paul's words) was always a School (only) of the Word (only) of God nothing could happen at any time which would obsolete that message: if we accetp that message anything man adds is refuting the Word of Christ. This happens almost 100% in the concept of songs and sermons. This data is in images: I will update it so you can check the links for your self.
Thanks but no thanks: this is EXACTLY what one would expect in Grace Centered Magazine. The man cannot define EKKLESIA/SYNAGOGUE and cannot define DISCIPLE and cannot define "WORSHIP." JOE BEAM IS GRACE-CENTERED. I reviewed this article and I considered a restraining order after I received a threatening e-mail from Joe. I case is made against the ZEALOTS long before the not-to-clear discussion of the liberals: it is true that people is people.
This is the usual RACA words characterizing the:
Satisfied as "like things they've donce since the 1950
ZEALOTSthe "old paths"
If there as anything worse than false charges against godly people (the majority) it is studing to make oneself into an ANGEL OF LIGHT because "we are the good guys." In fact neither "wing" of the bird knows too much about the text--especially the Prophets and Apostles who recorded the prophecies made more certain as THAT UPON WHICH the church is built up or educated. THEY can do nothing to make even a tomato grow other than to plant and water.
This is a very slick but hostile attack by making their DOCTRINE based on culture but too ignorant to know the difference. It is a falsehood to say that the historic Church of Christ is EXCLUSIVE. 100% of the people can attend and NOT be molested by slinky praise singers. Most of the churches of Christ are EXCLUDED just by imposing the LEGALISM of "musical worship teams." Just to say it is blasphemy.
All of the INCLUSIVE churches EXCLUDE anyone who dares to question them.
The GRACE word God replaced is the basis of Charismatic Music: perverse and perverting:
Grace centered promoting music is defacto PERVERSE and DEMON WORSHIP. That is THE meaning of the pagan THESIS defining the Graces (muses):
Charis, outward grace or favour 4. love-charm, philtre, V.daimonôn charis: homage due to them, their worship, majesty
2. esp. in erotic sense, of favours granted [especially to another male]
charites aphrodisiôn erôtôn, Aphroditêsechôn E.Ba.236
Aphrodisios [From Aphroditê] [Venus, Or ZOE or Lucifer]
I. belonging to Aphrodite, Plat.
II. Aphrodisia, ta, sexual pleasures, [all music]
2. a festival of Aphrodite,
III. Aphrodision, ou, to, the temple of Aphrodite,
IV. gratification, delight, tinos in or from a thing, sumposiou Pi. O.7.5
The ANTITHESIS is that Jesus came as true grace as a SON and not a daughter. Grace never permmits doing something presuming on God's goodness to permit it. The GRACE of modern religious institutes usually denies the role of Baptism (GCMF) again presuming on God's goodness.
# If Christ in prophesy and Jesus in persom makes obedience in baptism the MARK of those who are not APISTOS (believeth nots).
# And the Grace people deny that baptism is required obedience.
# Then Christ defines that as blasphemy against The Holy Spirit of Christ
The SHRINKING church is a lie compared to the rest of modern religionism. However, for the few losses including GCM here is a post-Affliction confession--they always confess.
Rick Atchley: The era of the progressive Church of Christ is over.
Back in the 80s you could go to any major city, especially in the South, and you could find a progressive Church of Christ and if they would preach grace, and if they would put words on a screen, and if they would let divorced people place membership, they would grow.
The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that theyre going to find the least legalistic
Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.
We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!
This delusion, when detected, makes many people flee from "religionism" in any form.
Another reason for the "shrinking" numbers is that the "counters" confessed that they reported boated figures from "pracher counts." Just honest counting does not constitute SHRINKING.
The Church Growth Cult is prophesied.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 220.127.116.11 on Nov 23, 2011 10:19 PM|
Re: Good Try, Jasper
|March 16 2012, 2:11 AM |
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Re: Article on Liberal Snobism
|November 16 2011, 6:03 PM |
Something seems to be missing. Ken, was there a link with the above post? I noticed you did an edit on the post. Maybe something was left off?
You are getting smarter.
|November 16 2011, 6:18 PM |
That's what they do at Crace centered UNTIL you have been certified as following their CREED: no anti music, no anti trinity, not too much bible.
Then, once you can post links the heat brings on a sweat and they have a Lee or a John or a Larry or a Marc who can EDITE your comments and the BLACK BALL YOU FOR ALL ETERNITY.
That's why I review the ANTI-bible and ANTI-church of christ utterly false teachings here.
Like all of the "progressives" you will find a wimmen or a denominational poster who has a poison pen filled with RACA juice. GCM hasn't done ANY research from the Bible or from anyone who cares enough to define words and exercise ethical behaviour. If they will conspire to steal the church house of widows Jesus would define them as Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. Jesus pointed to Isaiah and Ezekiel who NAMED NAMES including anyone SELLING the free water of the Word as Preachers, Singers and Instrument Players.
You cannot be a DITTO HEAD to gain favor with men and be a disciple of Christ.
What John Knew that CORRUPTERS can never grasp
|November 16 2011, 6:56 PM |
A person who honors God and works righteousness is acceptable with God: that means that they are qualified to be enlisted as a DISCIPLE of Christ by requesting A holy spirit or A good conscience at baptism.
Anyone who presumes to sell the FREE WATER OF THE WORD (Isa 55) and seeks their own pleasure or speak their own words in the REST promised by Christ in Isa 58 is NOT a Disciple and their disqualification is marked by lots of opinions that the PROGRESSIVES are good guys seeking to leave LEGALISM and anyone who dares "question God's anointeds" is a ZEALOT who is hooked on tradition (a virusl they caught from their godly ancestors. They can never quote a verse in context.
Presuming to be a Teacher without being QUALIFIED makes one a BLASPHEMER when they say that God says something God did not say (Jeremiah 23 says Christ). While one suspects that there are few to none of the preachers on either extreme cares or needs to know what the Bible writers were pointing out.
Paul speaks in antithetical parallelism quite often.
THESIS: SPEAK one to another in "that which is written for our learning" (Rom 15)
ANTITHESIS: singing AND making melody IN THE HEART (a place)
That is because the PSALLO word is the proof for the "worship wars" and "plucking hairs" of young boys word, and the ODE words almost always point to enchantment or sorcery:
The Levites were Soothsayers with instrumental accompaniment
The Fruits in Revelation were SORCERERS with instrumental accompaniment.
Grace (Jesus) appeared teaching us to DENY what the Grace-Centereds want to impose.
|November 16 2011, 7:02 PM |
Any GraceCentered advocate is perfectly free to take any of the assumptions and prove.
You will never be BLACK LISTED for quoting any Biblical or Historical fact.
|November 16 2011, 7:18 PM |
What about Jasper's post? Why the edit?
|November 16 2011, 8:19 PM |
If Jasper wants to teach the hostile views against the church of Christ he should post it on the GCM forum. They will be happy to permit anyone with an assault permit.
We don't promote false teachings nor anti-church attacks. Is that simple? If Jasper wants to post something he should take any of the charges against the church of Christ and back it up with Scripture or a census of churches of Christ.
Hopefully he will use his name and affiliation. Got it?
Re: Jasper's Post?
|November 17 2011, 10:01 AM |
Ken, censorship is censorship. It makes no difference if it is at GCM or CM. I don't know what Jasper had to say. You used the situation to beat your chest. That's all I have to say about it. Have a nice day.
Ken never links to the source
|November 17 2011, 9:48 AM |
Racnor, Ken never links to the source so that we can read for ourselves whether his attacks are accurate or not. The only links he provides are to his own opinion pieces.
Are you a ZEALOT because you won't musicate or associate against your will?
|November 16 2011, 8:56 PM |
Here is what the Grace Centered Article teaches against those who will not impose musical instruments, defend against those who seek to impose them with force and do not defend, protect or promote any institute which replaces the Word of Christ with wimpy songs, instruments and sermons.
We begin our model by defining a Zealot by calling bible things by bible names. While there are extremist they probably nest on both sides. There are probably left zealots as well as right zealots
To Joe Beam, those on the left are inclusive, progressive and innovative and undoubtedly, "honest, brave, pure and true." However, those to the right are self-satisfied and shelter all of the zealots. Judas was prophesied to be and marked by Jesus as the Devil's attack agent marked by his bag--for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments, and the SOP as the PSALLO concept which caused the Devil to enter into him.
"member of a Jewish sect noted for its uncompromising opposition to pagan Rome and the polytheism (trinitarianism is polytheism) it professed. The Zealots were an aggressive political party whose concern for the national and religious life of the Jewish people led them to despise even Jews who sought peace and conciliation with the Roman authorities. A census of Galilee ordered by Rome in AD 6 spurred the Zealots to rally the populace to noncompliance on the grounds that agreement was an implicit acknowledgment by Jews of the right of pagans to rule their nation.
Rubel Shelly notes that:
"Much less do they care to know about our fratricidal wars over the authority of elders, instrumental music in worship, whether to be having unity forums like this, or versions of the Bible" Unity Forum at ACU
From this it is logical to believe that among some, these Zealots range all the way to the fratricidal side. This makes them extremists, I suppose.
But, on the other hand, are right wingers really Judases carrying around their dagger to stab you in the grand meetings? All of the evidence suggest that the Ahithopels and Judases are the musical people:
"Extremists among the Zealots turned to terrorism and assassination and became known as Sicarii (Greek sikarioi, "dagger men"). They frequented public places with hidden daggers to strike down persons friendly to Rome. In the first revolt against Rome (ad 66-70) the Zealots played a leading role, and at Masada in 73 they committed suicide rather than surrender the fortress, but they were still a force to be reckoned with in the first part of the following century. A few scholars see a possible relationship between the Zealots and the Jewish religious community mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls."
Judas was such an extremist: Judas Sicarri.
"For centuries, baffled by Greek appellation, biblical commentators believed 'Judas Iscariot' to denote 'Judas of Kerioth'. But as the late Professor S. G. F. Brandon of Manchester University has convincingly argued, 'Judas Iscariot' now seems more likely to be a corruption of 'Judas the Sicarius' - or Zealot." - Baigent, Leigh & Lincoln, The Messianic Legacy
Therefore, to call conservatives Zealots when it is the liberals trying to radicalize the church with music is to implicate them in "fratricide" or murder of brothers as Rubel Shelly implicates the non-instrumental people with fire-bombers.
Flavius Josephus The Jewish War 2.254 (Whiston) identifies the Zealots as robbers. However, it seems that the musical faction arranges a "hostile takeover" of traditional churches and at times resorts to dishonesty and force:
"When the country was purged of these, there sprang up another sort of robbers in Jerusalem, which were called Sicarii, who slew men in the day time, and in the midst of the city; this they did chiefly at the festivals, when they mingled themselves among the multitude, and concealed daggers under their garments, with which they stabbed those that were their enemies; "and when any fell down dead, the murderers became a part of those that had indignation against them; (The Guilt Clause)
"by which means they appeared persons of such reputation, that they could by no means be discovered.
During the formation of the American Restoration Movement,
"It is not uncommon to give the blow and raise the cry." Barton W. Stone
This means that it is dishonest, Zealot-like but common to "sow discord among the bretheren" over issues such as baptism and instrumental music and having driven the daggar in to the soft belly to accuse the dying victim of suicide.
It is interesting that Judas carried the bag which is defined as for "carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." That was because it was prophesied that Judas would try to triumph over Jesus where triumph over involved trying to get Jesus to lament and dance while the clergy piped. Literally it meant to blow on trumpets and "make a joyful noise." Such activity was a victory parade.
The word SOP has the same root meaning as PSALLO.
Grace Centered Magazine is under moral obligation to find any conservative church of Christ which ever conspired to deceive the youth of a musical group as Rick Atchley confesses--and we knew it and said it.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 18.104.22.168 on Nov 16, 2011 8:58 PM|
Re: Are you a ZEALOT because you won't musicate or associate against your will?
|November 17 2011, 8:10 AM |
This is not an anti-Church of Christ website. It is a site, at least this forum, for discussion of issues affecting Churches of Christ. I believe that Ken was right to remove an anti-Church of Christ article from a poster, that to my knowledge, has never posted on this site before. Just my thoughts.
Not an Anti-Church of Christ
|November 17 2011, 9:29 PM |
Tom, thanks for the clarification. If this website is anti "something," it will have to be anti-change agents and anti-progressivism or anti-liberalism in the church.
It's so funny when liberal contributors (I mean "posters" -- not "financiers") like Dave Fields claim that they are conservative and CM is liberal.
This website is for the truth and for the church. It wants the church to maintain its teachings based on Scripture and not change them as the liberals do.
Re: Are you a ZEALOT because you won't musicate or associate against your will?
|November 17 2011, 2:04 PM |
It appears to Fred upon reading Ken's perpetual edgy posts that November 16 was not a good day for him. Fred hopes that today Ken is not so irritable and will post something today without the overtones and undertones.
The Old Paths Blasphemed.
|November 17 2011, 9:51 PM |
Fred: The SOP which caused the Devil to enter into Judas Sicarry has the same root meaning as PSALLO: intending to "grind you into a find powder" to do thingies to you called bowing to Baal. It is used only once and was prophesied in Psalm 41.
The BAG is used only once: it was not a purse. Judas had the bag because he was a thief. The Bag is pictured on greek vases and used in Greek Text meaning "for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." That was outlawed in Numbers 10 for the Qahal or Church of Christ.
The PERSONA of men blowing flutes or playing and singing has NEVER changed. It is one of the ABSOLUTE marks in recorded history. Lucifer is called by Christ "the singing and harp playing prostitute."
Back to GraceLand:
Tha was the SECRET AGENDA at Donnie's church but it surfaced before they had all of their pieces in place. The Pattern of the Purpose Driven Cult is to BUILD or ADD, get all of your finances in order and then say
"WE GONNA DO INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC. gonna do both/and
"but you promised that would NEVER happen on Sunday.
Zealot response: "but THAT was THEN and THIS is NOW.
Now, means that we had a decade to BOIL YOU FROGS and sorcerize your children at Winterfest and other venues. Now, please don't question the leadership.
If and when they lie about all of the clear warnings against anything that disrupts the teaching of the WORD (only) of CHRIST (onl) as proven by the CONTEXT then you know that they will not stop at ANYTHING to volf away the kingdom of God at that place. The sermons and songs PROVE that, as in Amos, Christ has been there, taken the lambs and WILL NOT PASS BY THERE AGAIN. Terminal.
Alas, Musical Mediators: it's always been the same
|November 17 2011, 11:26 PM |
Prince the Piper, Phaedrus
A little, friv'lous, abject mind,
Pleased with the rabble, puff'd with wind,
When once, as fast as pride presumes,
Itself with vanity it plumes,
Is by fond lightness brought with ease
To any ridicule you please.
One Prince, a piper to the play,
Was rather noted in his way,
As call'd upon to show his art,
Whene'er Bathyllus did his part,
He being at a certain fair,
(I do not well remember where,)
While they pull'd down the booth in haste,
Not taking heed, his leg displaced,
He from the scaffold fell so hard-
(Would he his pipes had rather marr'd!
Though they, poor fellow! were to him
As dear almost as life and limb).
Borne by the kind officious crowd,
Home he's conducted, groaning loud.
Some months elapsed before he found
Himself recover'd of his wound:
Meantime, according to their way,
The droll frequenters of the play
Had a great miss of him, whose touch
The dancers' spirits raised so much.
A certain man of high renown
Was just preparing for the town
Some games the mob to entertain,
When Prince began to walk again;
Whom, what with bribes and pray'rs, his grace?
Prevail'd upon to show his face
In this performance, by all means-
And while he waits behind the scenes,
A rumour through the house is spread,
By certain, that "the piper's dead."
Others cried out, "The man is here,
And will immediately appear."
The curtain draws, the lightnings flash,
The gods speak out their usual trash.
An ode, not to the Piper known,
Was to the chorus leader shown,
Which he was order'd to repeat,
And which was closed with this conceit--
"Receive with joy, O loyal Rome,
Thy Prince just rescued from his tomb."
They all at once stand up and clap,
At which my most facetious chap
Kisses his hand, and scrapes and bows
To his good patrons in the house.
First the equestrian order smoke
The fool's mistake, and high in joke,
Command the song to be encored;
Which ended, flat upon the board
The Piper falls, the knights acclaim;
The people think that Prince's aim
Is for a crown of bays at least.
Now all the seats perceived the jest,
And with his bandage white as snow,
White frock, white pumps, a perfect beauty
Proud of the feats he had achieved,
And these high honours he received,
With one unanimous huzza,
Poor Prince was kick'd out of the play.
|November 18 2011, 3:55 PM |
Brother, I might have to disagree with you about CM not being anti church of Christ.
The birth of this site was ONLY for being anti church of Christ. Isn't Madison church of Christ a church of Christ? If this site condemns one then it condemns all.
Donnie will counter with this site being against the elders that made changes at Madison. Regardless, if this site attacks elders then it attacks the church. This site, still to this day, can't get over what was done in 2001. Tom, is it good for a few unhappy dissenters to bring the church's problems here for the whole world to see? No!
This site is a cancer....nothing more.
Re: Hey Tom!
|November 19 2011, 7:06 PM |
Virtually all congregations of the church of Christ do not allow inanimate and lifeless musical devices in their assemblies:
1. Dave and the change agents are anti-church of Christ because they teach that musical instruments enhance "worship" and are God-authorized because the Scripture doesn't say "not to."
Virtually all congregations of the church of Christ follow the New Testament pattern for the church; God's plan of salvation including the design and purpose of baptism; and God's directives for Christian living:
2. On the other hand, this website believes and teaches what the church of Christ believes and what the Scripture teaches regarding the purpose of the assembly--to "let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; to teach and admonish one another: which musical instruments are incapable of doing.
1. Dave and the change agents are anti-church of Christ because, unbeknownst to them, they have replaced, removed or modified: God's pattern for the church; God's plan of redemption; God's directives for NT Christians.
2. On the other hand, this website agrees with the church of Christ regarding the pattern for the church, man's conversion, and God's instructions and principles set forth in the New Testament.
My Thesis: there may be NO Biblical churches left: that's prophesied.
|November 20 2011, 8:38 PM |
I believe that it is a fact that many rural churches will close theiir doors but because people have moved to the industrial areas or just left to find a job. Even the Right Flight Feathers of the Conservative Bird has fallen into the use of "a new style praise book" from Howards or from the Wimbers (aka wineskinners). That form of singing is intentionaly discording and tagged along with the so called "youth ministers" LaGard Smith told the Christian(?)Chronicle "Fire all of the youth ministers and the problem will go away." Many or most of them have been been cuckolded at WinderPest.
Second, the views from this writer has nothing to do the the "50s." I don't remember ever giving that period of time for authority and it certainly does NOT represent the views of this writer who grasps that CHURCH defined by Christ in the wilderness and the Purpose Driving the Campbells was A School of Christ." And worship was Reading and Musing the Word of Christ: defined in the Bible as the Prophets and apostles. There is NO PREACHER of any sect which grasps that fact.
In fact it was only in the first quarter century that the progressives were infiltrated. I have quoted the Bible or early church history and have NOTHING in common with the pre-50's church: neither does Donnie I believe. Here is what happened approaching the 50's. The "progressives" keep ALL of these and add the financial and mental burden of "worship teams" which deliberately sow's discord.
* The Located Evangelists (like a located travelling salesman or in Shelly's Words "a located Missionary."
* The rise of the STAFF INFECTION came mostly after the 50s but there is no Biblical role or dole.
* The "business week" operation of the church rather than a assembly for teaching when the doors open.
* The budget which the literate of that time denied had any role and was corrupting.
* The rise of the "music" concept in the "conservative churches.
THE HIRED PASTOR.
By T. R. Burnett
I am a hired pastor,
And ride the modern hob,
I preach for stated salary,
And stay upon the job.
I set aside the bishops,
And leave them in the lurch,
What use is there for elders,
When I preach TO THE CHURCH?
The Lord said, "GO ye therefore,"
That was the olden way,
But by my new translation
It simply means TO STAY!
Paul once said to the elders,
(My little soul to shock!)
Down there at old Miletus,
That they should "feed the flock."
But Paul was an old fogy,
Way back in eastern clime,
And did not know the customs
Of this great modern time.
You now must have a preacher,
(Please shout that long and loud!)
In all the towns and cities,
Or you can't draw the crowd.
The Baptists have a pastor,
The smartest in the land,
Digressives have an organ,
And play to beat the band.
If you don't ape the fashions,
You very soon will find
That all the sects and parties
Have left you far behind.
You need not hurt your conscience
With an un-Bible name,
Just call him your EVANGELIST,
I'll PASTOR just the same!
When I was young and greener,
I worked by the old plan,
I knew the word evangelist
Then meant a traveling man.
I went forth with my message,
God's power to save from sin,
I SOUNDED OUT the gospel,
But now I sound it IN!
To keep the church converted,
And free from every fear,
I draw a handsome salary,
One thousand plunks a year!
Farewell, ye old bush arbors,
Ye once had your reward,
Beneath your kindly shelter
I used to "trust the Lord."
But God is now insolvent,
In city, town, and ville,
A church goes his security
For my big gospel bill!
Ho, all LOCATED preachers,
(That sound a bit absurd!)
We'll show those old apostles
How we SOUND IN the word!
Good-by, ye Bible model,
Farewell, ye ancient plea,
Sing loud, ye hired preacher,
"Nearer, my JOB, to thee!"
Back to T.R. Burnett Page
Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily.
Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh,
shall he find faith on the earth?
While old buildings get closed because people leave, the stats are that the Church of Christ has leveled out and that began with the rise of the ACU band of brothers pledged to "Channel advanced degrees to go out and make the needed changes."
Burnett from the Disciples DENIED that the Church of Christ every "unioned" with the Disciples/Christian churches.
If that is a FACT then the whole "progressive-rubber wineskin" movement trying to seduce the youth into going instrumental is a big lie.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 22.214.171.124 on Nov 20, 2011 8:53 PM|