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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Going Beyond the Prescription

January 2 2012, 5:56 PM 

Dave's remark: "Now B wants to believe that because the NT doesn't specifically speak of sing with instruments, then it [using musical instruments] should be avoided. I see.

Here's a valid, common-sense explanation, Dave:

1. Mr. Fields just had a thorough physical exam. The diagnostic results were: that Mr. Fields is in good health with the exception of the cholesterol level of 260 being above the normal range.

2. Dr. Pharma gave Mr. Fields a specific prescription to help correct or minimize the specific medical anomaly -- no more, no less.

3. However, Mr. Fields desire and insistence was that while at it, he wanted his suspecting "undetected" other medical anomalies corrected as well. He asked Dr. Pharma to give him a prescription or medication to keep blood pressure problems under control. Dr. Pharma did not give him any medication for some anomaly that does not exist in Fields' body functions.

4. Mr. Fields is not convinced of the truth, decides to consult with a friend/relative with blood pressure problems. (Oh, well, at this point, who knows what Mr. Fields has decided to do. I think, I have a pretty good idea.)

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.221.181

Re: Going Beyond the Prescription

January 2 2012, 6:14 PM 

Dave refuses to believe that as the Great Physician, God has prescribed vocal music, but He has not prescribed any other kind of music. Therefore, who are we to go over God's head and employ instrumental music IN ADDITION TO vocal music? That would be like the pharmacist who goes over a doctor's head and ADDS a medication to a doctor's prescription that the doctor never specified. A pharmacist who does that breaks the law. Likewise, a Christian who ADDS instrumental music breaks God's command and sins (cf. 1 Cor. 4:6 and Rev. 22).

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.75.52

Ready to fold em!

January 2 2012, 7:39 PM 

I am really tired: I am thinking about turning myself in to the institution at the suggestion of most of even the "conservative" preachers who just hate "them words."

Before I go, I would please love it if ANY musical discorders and all who use instruments in what they call "worship" could please, please, pretty please,

Find one command, example or remote inference that God ever commanded the godly people to "congregate" and sing with instrumental accompaniment.

Now, one would think that those who pour hate all down your beard would be so nice that they could find one command, example, inference or rationale


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 166.248.75.52 on Jan 2, 2012 7:47 PM


 
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B
(no login)
74.240.240.62

Re: Ready to fold em!

January 2 2012, 8:14 PM 

The rebellious liberals would just demand that you find a command, example, or inference where God says in the New Testament that instrumental music is sinful. Such a demand conveniently ignores what God has specified about vocal music. The "Christianity" of the rebellious liberals is based on what God DOESN'T say about His commands instead of faithfully following His commands as specified in the New Testament. In short, the "Christianity" of the rebellious liberals is based on "God didn't say not to do this or that." That is a "Christianity" based on man's preferential assumptions.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.75.52

True

January 2 2012, 8:56 PM 

But, they have in effect refused to FOLD EM. They have upped the Ante loaned by the NACC

http://www.piney.com/David.Faust.Temple.html

1. David Faust insists:
I . In the Old Testament the Lord didn't merely "permit" the use of musical instruments as aids to worship.
....He commanded their use.
2. In the old Testament the Lord didn't merely "permit'
the use of musical instruments as aids to worship.
....He blessed their use.


THEY lie and say that God commanded the Levites to be Musical Worship Ministers. The TRUTH is that God commanded the Levites to STAND IN RANKS and execute any Rick Atchley or David Faust who even went near any holy thing. Now, you never want these guys to mix the KoolAid :=)

The other card they had up their sleeve when they ran out of cash from the lord is; "we know we are sinning but grace is gonna cover us."

Rick Atchley: If youve got people who still feel that their relationship with God depends on how we do things at church, then this is not going to fly and you cant get there because you did a series on grace. An Afternoon with Rick Atchley and Chris Seidman, Part 3 (New Wineskins, September December 2010

Well, we kinda had the idea that our relationship with God was enhanced when we attended "school of the Word" of God. If Jesus is the HEAD of the church and TEACHER over the church when the elders teach that which has been taught we MIGHT benefit? Other than that God didn't authorize a staff infection to regulate our relationship the rest of the week OR eat from the Widow's plate.

If church has no effect then aren't they playing the Judas Card of trying to silence Jesus. Maybe we shouldn't pay them?

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Re: Ready to fold em!

January 2 2012, 10:52 PM 

Brother B and Brother Cruz,

Is it Scriptural to sing with one's eyes closed?

Please explain your answer/thinking.

-Sonny

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Ready to fold em!

January 3 2012, 1:55 AM 

Be more specific, Sonny:

1. Sing what? Hymns, spiritual songs? "My Serenade"?
2. Where? In the assembly of saints? At a Michael Smith concert?
3. Does it matter if someone is blind?
4. Are you equating "with one's eyes closed" to unused musical equipment?
5. Otherwise, the word "scriptural" makes no sense in your question.
6. Otherwise, you could ask a similar nonsensical question: "Is it scriptural to eat with missing teeth?" happy.gifsad.gifhappy.gif

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.205.47

Re: Ready to fold em!

January 3 2012, 10:01 AM 

Sonny has a knack for asking nonsensical questions and expecting "serious" answers. Here are some similar questions that Sonny could ask:

Is it scriptural to sing while crossing your eyes?
Is it scriptural to sing while blinking your eyes?
Is it scriptural to sing while rolling your eyes?
Is it scriptural to sing while closing one nostril?
Is it scriptural to sing with dentures?
Is it scriptural to sing without your dentures?
Is it scriptural to sing while holding your breath?
Is it scriptural to sing while holding one hand behind your back?
Is it scriptural to sing during television commercials?
Is it scriptural to sing while picking ticks off your dog?
Is it scriptural to sing if you have halitosis?
Is it scriptural to sing while lying on a burlap sack?
Is it scriptural to sing standing on one foot?
Is it scriptural to sing standing on your head?
Is it scriptural to sing while jumping over a fence?
Is it scriptural to sing while dodging a bullet?
Is it scriptural to sing while running from a bear?
Is it scriptural to sing while hunting ducks?
Is it scriptural to sing while a cop is giving you a ticket?
Is it scriptural to sing while your cat is yakking up a hairball?
Is it scriptural to sing after you apply for a loan and the bank laughs in your face?
Is it scriptural to sing while picking your nose?
Is it scriptural to sing while picking your teeth?
Is it scriptural to sing while shaving under your arms?
Is it scriptural to sing while popping a blackhead?
Is it scriptural to sing before you belch?
Is it scriptural to sing while wiping the mud from your shoes?
Is it scriptural to sing while holding an open umbrella?

Get the picture, Sonny? Have a nice day!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.138.10

Missed one, B.

January 3 2012, 1:56 PM 

When the boy praise singer begins to make love to God is it ok to plug in your hearing aids and turn them off?

 
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Jimmyjoe
(no login)
68.53.99.127

Rebellious Conservatives

January 3 2012, 4:48 PM 

The rebellious conservatives would like everyone to believe that vocal music is the only unsinful way to worship God during a gathering of the saints (today known as a worship service). They continually use a verse from Eph. and one from Col. to try to prove a point that survives only through tradition. Instead of pick and choose it has become pick and prove.
However I do have a question. If one is attending a non-instumental service and does not sing because they just don't want to, are they sinning as much as those attending a service using musical instruments. Using the Donnie logic they would both be lifeless and mechanical.
Welcome back Dr. Crump (I mean B.) At least you have livened up the site again.

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

OKAY

January 3 2012, 11:28 AM 

Brother B and Brother Cruz,

Can one Scripturally fulfill Ephesians 5:19 of singing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with melody in one's heart to the Lord if they close their eyes while they sing? To clarify, does God care whether one closes their eyes while they sing and worship him?

-Sonny

 
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D
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Wipe the Dust Off Your Feet Before It Turns to Mud

January 3 2012, 3:20 PM 

Sonny,
What did you expect???

 
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Dave
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Time to Edit

January 3 2012, 8:19 PM 

JimmyJoe,
"B" never fooled anyone in the first place. You could smell the penmanship a mile away. B, again, please tell William Crump hello when you see him.
I tell you one thing B, William Crump would shred you to pieces for not revealing your identity, right William? I lost track, so excuse me....so to whom am I speaking to now.....William Crump or B?


 
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for Ray
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ

January 3 2012, 8:25 PM 

Ray,

You have responded to my post titled: "Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ." Thank you for that.

Your message deserves to be heard and reprinted. Here it is:


Author: Ray
(no login): 146.23.68.42
Subject: Donnie is a liar
Date: January 3 2012, 9:40 AM

Yes, this is bold, denunciation of your delibertate lies. You do not know me, yet you insist that I am promoting a "typically progressive/liberal, distorted, deceptive, false charge". This site DOES promote dividing the churches of Christ and DOES promote dividing one Christian from another. That is your agenda plain and simple. You may disguise your agenda as something else, but your constant attacks on your home congregation and encouraging others to falsely accuse and attack other churches of Christ only prove your true agenda. You have been challenged by me and others to contact the congregations you attack personally. Have you ever once done so? Can you provide the evidence that you have ever sought to personally investigate your own false accusations or the others you encourage? I have repeatedly identifed my background and even my home congretation, but you "conveniently" ignore or "forget" because it better suits you to attack rather than seek unity and truth. I will not wast my time constantly repeating my long heritage in the conservative churches of Christ because you will just conveniently ignore and forget so you can attack again. You may well spend eternity with all of the Christians you attack Donnie, but it will only be because God will save you by His grace in spite of your sinful actions and words and promotion of division in the churches of Christ. 21st Century Christian is doing what is proper to promote unity. You are doing what you can to promote division.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ

January 3 2012, 8:46 PM 

Ray,

I am senescent and at times cynical.

Since you now claim to "have repeatedly identifed my background and even my home congretation," I need my memory refreshed. Sorry, I lost the information.

Where and what is your home congregation? When you answer, I'll make sure that I will never ask that question again.

Thanks!

Donnie

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ

January 4 2012, 2:04 PM 

I noted it when Ken Sublett made this remarkable statement: "I am thinking about turning myself in to the institution at the suggestion of most of even the 'conservative' preachers who just hate 'them words.'"

"[A]t the suggestion of most of even the 'conservative' preachers...."

Now I know better that, even if one claims to be a "conservative" or is coming from "my long heritage in the conservative churches of Christ," he will be known by his words, ideas and opinions.

OK, then, we are dealing here with the church of Christ -- not with the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church or Baptist Church or any of the other Protestant churches.

Congregations of the church (or churches of Christ) are essentially conservative, and they do not engage or indulge in the operation of mechanical music and/or other musical accessories in their assemblies.

Even for that reason alone, Ray has subjected himself to be a follower of the liberal/progressive church's agenda.

What about this? Ray has a strong Restoration Movement heritage [supposedly] and is a "conservative" [supposedly] ONLY UNTIL [or EXCEPT WHEN] he changes his mentality to that of God now authorizing the operation of mechanical music in the assembly of the New Testament church.

Is that a better description of your stance, Ray?

By the way, I shall be awaiting your response to the question concerning your home congregation.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.136.10

"My heritage" is a MARK

January 4 2012, 3:30 PM 

ALL of the false teachers use the "MY HERITAGE" when speaking of instrumental.

That means--in most cases--to say that NOT using mechanical instruments in what they call "worship" is just a VILE DISEASE I caught from my godly parents.

: property that descends to an heir
2
a : something transmitted by or acquired from a predecessor
: something possessed as a result of one's natural situation or birth
1.
2.

Definition of TRADITION
1
a : an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom) b : a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable


Of course, subconsciously or maliciously, that is a lie because it is told over and over with the intention of causing harm to ahother person.

The "tradition" of Scripture is that which is written. There is no command, example or inference that any one ever attended a godly assembly for congregatioal singing with instrumental accompaniment.

Since there is not a hint of a smell of such a practice from God, historians are agreed that "there is no tradition of instrumental worship but from the Devil."

According to David Lipscomb (whose heritage has been confiscated) no one in history tried to prove that the KEY WORD "Psallo" had any inherent musical meaning and was not used until the DISCIPLES/Christian churches found themselves in the quicksand of instrumentall sectarianism in 1878.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ

January 4 2012, 8:26 PM 

Ray is really sincere about his erratic definition of words and expressions used in a discussion. NOTE Ray's erratic attacks:
This site DOES promote dividing the churches of Christ and DOES promote dividing one Christian from another . . . your constant attacks on your home congregation and encouraging others to falsely accuse and attack other churches of Christ only prove your true agenda . . . your sinful actions and words and promotion of division in the churches of Christ. 21st Century Christian is doing what is proper to promote unity. You are doing what you can to promote division.

Nice try, Ray. But, get real.
  • Ray thinks that discussing religious differences promotes division.
  • Ray thinks that discussing instrumental music in the church of Christ Jesus divides the church.
  • Therefore, it follows Ray's thinking that discussing baptism by sprinkling in Roman Catholicism divides the Roman Catholic Church and divides one Roman Catholic from another.


  • Ray thinks that the ConcernedMembers website [an online forum happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif] is sinning by reporting the eldership or leadership that has misled a congregation by implementing controversial, unnecessary, divisive and unscriptural elements, programs, teachings into its assembly.
  • Ray thinks that when ConcernedMembers REPORTS the few churches that NOW embrace (but did not in the past) the operation of mechanical music devices and accessories in the assembly, it is in the attack mode and promoting division, whereas...
  • Ray thinks that when 21st Century Christian [or The Christian Chronicle] REPORTS the few churches that NOW embrace (but did not in the past) the operation of mechanical music devices and accessories in the assembly, it is promoting unity.


Ray, I still need my memory refreshed: Where and what is your home congregation? When you answer, I'll make sure that I will never ask that question again.

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Re: Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ

January 4 2012, 11:37 PM 

Brother Cruz,

1. Is Brother Ray not considered a conservative by you because he has a single matter for which he is not in line with the mainstream of conservatives?

2. If a Christian agrees with the mainstream conservatives on almost every matter does this make him or her a liberal? (Is it how many issues one disagrees or the nature of the issue(s)?)

3. Do you equate "conservative" with "scriptural?"

4. If someone is more exreme than the mainstream conservatives, are they more or less scriptural in your thinking?

Thanks bro. for helping me understand your faith!

-Sonny


 
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B
(no login)
98.87.23.78

Re: Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ

January 5 2012, 9:23 AM 

For as long as Sonny has been reading this board, I'd say he understands the faith of the mainstream conservatives very well. He just doesn't accept it.

 
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