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Re: Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ

January 5 2012, 10:37 AM 

Abstinence from instrumental music in worship is one of the most fundamental tenets in conservative, mainstream churches of Christ. Those who promote and advocate instrumental music are denominationalists or denominational sympathizers; they are NOT conservatives. Congregations who call themselves "churches of Christ" but who implement instrumental music in some or all of their services are NOT true churches of Christ; they misrepresent themselves and deceive the public.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

And that't a fact

January 5 2012, 11:39 AM 

B, If I may use your first name, that can have no exception.

If people USE instruments and USE instrumentalists they are not connected to the Biblical (conservative) Assembly of Christ. The Spirit OF Christ defined the future assemby in spiriitual Zion throughout Isaiah etal both inclusively and exclusively. At the same time the true prophets radically repudiated the Civil-Military-Clergy complex under the tribe of Levi primarily. They had been abandoned to worship the starry host: anyone who claims that the goat-burning for Israel (the beyond redemption instrumental sectarians) is their legalistic patternism has obeyed the Atchley's spirit guide saying that God COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE (whatever that be) and WE must not be disobedient--that was a threat. The MARK may be that they are already burning the goats or "Cappella" as scapegoats. These Sorcerers with instrumental accompaniment ARE destined to be cast ALIVE into the lake of fire. That is why they will NEVER try to refute you even when the plague has spread to the once-Christian colleges now universities (universalists?)

All who think that instruments are acceptable in any assembly called in the name of Jesus Christ does by actual claims to be led by Max-Lucado and Rick Atchley who were handled by agents from the NACC.

The Biblical Church of Christ down through history never used instruments until long after Calvin permitted metrical psalms to be sung. There was no Disciple-Christian church minister at the time who did not know that you don't use machines trying to worship a Holy (wholly) Spirit God: the Campbell's defined a Church as "A School of Christ" and anyone who added the organ (only they said) became an INSTRUMENTAL SECTARIAN DIVISION. A "heretic" or "sectarian" is connected to music to "lift the lambs up to cut their throats" by the priests is outlawed by Paul in the SELF-pleasure in Romans 15: it MEANS that they make a choice to STEAL YOUR PROPERTY.

It is impossible to be a Disciple of Christ and reject His command to teach what HE commanded to be taught: His pattern was that not even He spoke anything which He did not receive from the Father.

Anyone who says that instruments are acceptable but we are traditional a cappella injects an aroma of discord within the congregation because he WOULD impose instruments IF he was willing or had the nerve to loose up to half of the "owners" in order to have limpy burger boys and fat girls make a SPECTACLE (theater) of Christ.

No: not a pinch of arsenic in OUR coffee: They are TASKED by their own Father the Devil defined by Jesus as "they speak on their own."

Greek Religion: Popular religion flourished alongside the civic cults. Peasants worshiped the omnipresent deities of the countryside, such as the Arcadian goat-god Pan, who prospered the flocks, and the nymphs [brides Rev 18] (who, like Eileithyia, aided women in childbirth) inhabiting caves, springs (Naiads), trees (Dryads and Hamadryads), and the sea (Nereids). They also believed in nature spirits such as Satyrs and Sileni and equine Centaurs. Among the more popular festivals were the rural Dionysia, which included a phallus pole;

the Anthesteria, when new wine was broached and offerings were made to the dead; the Thalysia, a harvest celebration;

the Thargelia, when a scapegoat (pharmakos Rev 18:23) assumed the communal guilt; and the Pyanepsia, a bean feast in which boys collected offerings to hang on the eiresione ("wool pole"). Women celebrated the Thesmophoria in honour of Demeter and commemorated the passing of Adonis with laments and miniature gardens, while images were swung from trees at the Aiora to get rid of an ancient hanging curse. Magic [music] was widespread. Spells were inscribed on lead tablets. Statues of Hecate, goddess of witchcraft, stood outside dwellings, while Pan's image was beaten with herbs in time of meat shortage.

Sorry, but most of the Pans cannot be posted

[linked image]

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Jan 5, 2012 11:58 AM

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ

January 7 2012, 11:45 PM 

Sonny (no login)
Posted Jan 4, 2012 11:37 PM

Brother Cruz,
  1. Is Brother Ray not considered a conservative by you because he has a single matter for which he is not in line with the mainstream of conservatives?

    In an earlier post (above) I responded to Ray's insistence in claiming that he is a conservative: "What about this? Ray has a strong Restoration Movement heritage [supposedly] and is a "conservative" [supposedly] ONLY UNTIL [or EXCEPT WHEN] he changes his mentality to that of God now authorizing the operation of mechanical music in the assembly of the New Testament church."

    Good question, though. Personally and scripturally, I would not consider Ray a conservative. He knows [or should know] fully well that the church of Christ of which he claims to be a member [I'm still waiting for him to assure me of this] does not engage in the mechanical operation of musical devices and other musical accessories in the assembly of the saints. Non-use of musical devices is an apostolic/NT tradition and a Restoration Movement heritage. To transform the Lord's church from a non-IM to an IM-loving church is deceptive and goes against scriptural authorization or it is suggestive of the notion that God somehow had thought about making it a directive, got too busy and failed to put it in writing.

    The same goes in the U.S. government and politics. A U.S. citizen who rejects or seeks to disrespect and not follow the Constitution may still be residing in the country but is no longer an adherent of the Constitution.

  2. If a Christian agrees with the mainstream conservatives on almost every matter does this make him or her a liberal? (Is it how many issues one disagrees or the nature of the issue(s)?)

    In this case (IM) in the church of Christ, YES. In the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church or any other religious group, NO. In the Primitive Baptist Church [or some other non-IM Protestant religious body], YES. (The preceding statement about the Primitive Baptist Church and its opposition to IM should answer the second part of your question -- it all relates to how MAJOR the issue is.

  3. Do you equate "conservative" with "scriptural?"

    Another good question. In the political or cultural world, the answer is NO. In most religious (non-fundamentalist) groups, in most cases, NO. In a "fundamentalist" church, the likely answer is YES, or that both terms are not similar but are related.

  4. If someone is more exreme than the mainstream conservatives, are they more or less scriptural in your thinking?

    A doctrine or teaching is either scriptural or unscriptural--and nothing in between. Instrumental music and dancing were practiced by both pagans and God's "followers" [supposedly]. But there is no proof or evidence in Scripture that God has EVER commanded or directed His followers to play musical instruments and dance before God--NONE from either Old Testament or New Testament. Man may opine that God has whispered to His followers to play musical devices to please Him, but that's only MAN thinking and desiring.

Thanks bro. for helping me understand your faith!


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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Instrumental Music DIVIDES (NOT UNITES) Churches of Christ

January 12 2012, 2:09 AM 

Bumped for Sonny:

Alright, Sonny, it's your turn to rebut. I have responded to your numbered questions. [I like numbered comments, statements, questions, etc., by the way, for reference purposes.]

You mentioned earlier "a diminishing viewership and a lack of significant influence [at CM]...." I don't know about your source for stats, but I await your usually civil rebuttal. Do you need me to further explain or clarify?

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