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December 28 2011 at 1:03 AM
Dave  (no login)
from IP address

Thought this might help this needs something. Stop with the gnashing of the teeth already.

I give you a new commandment: that you should love one another. Just as I have loved you, so you too should love one another.
John 13: 34

By this shall all [men] know that you are My disciples, if you love one another [if you keep on showing love among yourselves].
John 13: 35

Above all things have intense and unfailing love for one another, for love covers a multitude of sins [forgives and disregards the offenses of others]. 1 Peter 4: 8

And may the Lord make you to increase and excel and overflow in love for one another and for all people, just as we also do for you. 1 Thessalonians 3: 12

But I tell you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Matthew 5: 44

If you [merely] love those who love you, what quality of credit and thanks is that to you? For even the [very] sinners love their lovers (those who love them). Luke 6: 32

It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)


December 28 2011, 4:00 AM 

I've heard of the expression "gnashing of teeth" before. Here's one from the gospels: "Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 22:13)

I don't know if Dave weeps or wails when he misspeaks the truth, but he certainly "gnashes his teeth" when he posts messages arguing (with his opinion) that the New Testament church of Christ and the Scripture should now tolerate the mechanical operation of inanimate, lifeless musical devices when the living saints assemble.

We all love those passages you quoted from Scripture [from Scripture, thanks!!!].

I think you forgot to include the following important instructions:

John 14:15 -- If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 15:10 -- If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

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(no login)


December 28 2011, 9:21 AM 

Yes, Dave weeps, wails, and gnashes his teeth when people show him that IM is unscriptural. Then in desperation he whips out the "love" passages of Scripture and would have people believe that anyone who disagrees with him, a so-called "shepherd" of his church, is "unloving." Yet all along Dave has ridiculed and insulted those who disagree with him. Coming from this "shepherd," that's anything but "love." Actually, that's just blatant hypocrisy. Since Dave continues to support IM, if he really wants to do the right thing, he will step down as a "shepherd" and let a more spiritually qualified man take his place.

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(no login)

No Opinion Needed or Wanted Here

December 28 2011, 12:16 PM 

I also enjoyed your Scriptures (from the Word, and not Donnie's opinion).

So if someone plays a piano while singing 'Amazing Grace,' are they in violation of any of God's commands?

Donnie, again, please use Scriptures, and not Donnie's opinion.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

John 13

December 28 2011, 3:05 PM 

There are two kinds of love in John 13:

The Devil sought to take away the kingdom from the rightful Seed of Abraham through Judah: the JUDAS message MARKS the musical usurpers because we have DARED anyone from the highest level of mercinary incompetence to show us a command, example or remote inference that there was a SINGLE instance when God called the godly people together with congregational singing and musical accompaniment. THAT is the "Triumph over Jesus" left as the way we can MARK the Judasites. David proves our point because the LOVE he affirms is that of "stealing the church houses of widows" to make room for the senior pastor's favorit "wolf" or "dog."

Throughout the Bible the conflict is between TWO SONS. Jacob prophesied that the contest would be between Levi--the instrumentalist's chosen leader--and one of the tribe of Judah.

The Devil picked Judas for his contest as God had picked Jesus of Nazareth.

John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simons son, to betray him;

[Judas Iscariot: His first name is from the tribe of Judah who had a child of his dead son's wife paid for with the symbol of his throne. In The Testament of Judah he prophesied that his descendant daughters would become serving girls and musicians. Only a branch would be left Who would be Messiah.

Matthew 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

When Israel's elders (always the elders) demanded a king God warned that the kings would carry out the captivity and death sentence. That would include making THEIR SONS singing boys. Wow: Amazing.

The Judas bag means SPEAKING IN TONGUES and OF THE WORLD: Lucifer was an agent of the Kosmokrator as all of the Classical literature assigns them to worship the MOTHER GODDESSES and musical madness. The word is:

Glôsso-komeion , to, ( [komeô] ) case to keep the reeds or tongues of musical instruments, Lysipp.5: generally, casket,: more freq. in form glôsso-komon , to, case, casket; compartment in a water-organ,

The Judas Bag is the little box always attached to a FLUTE CASE: the Judas message and the Devil ENTERING into him is the universal message of introducing performance singing or instruments whe Christ commands us to teach what HE commanded to be taught. The Judas episode is that music MARKS the entrance of the Devil who speaks on his own.

[linked image]

The religious musicians in the THEATER were usually males masking as females and were polluted and polluting. In this photo you see a type of the double flute to the right. The spoted thingy is a FLUTE CASE and attached to it is the GLOSSOKOMEION. That is not strange because the JUDAS figure would try to TRIUMPH OVER Jesus and all righteous people. "Triumph"--outlawed for the church in the wilderness--means to play wind instruments and "make a joyful noise before the Lord." That dazes my mind.

Jesus was the son of Judah: the seed of Abraham

John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into HIS hands,
and that he was come from God, and went to God;

The Judas Bag and the SOP having the same root meaning of PSALLO was God's proof that, again, the sons of the Devil are EXCISED from the Body of Christ even if they still wear the name (Rev 18 proves that the cunning craftsmen, sorcerers, soothsayers are EXCISED at the same time their LAMPS are removed. That is why musical idolatry at Mount Sinai could not be redeemed. The Levites (the Atchley etal foundation) executed 3000 for doing musical idolatry.

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(no login)

William Crump

December 28 2011, 3:50 PM 


[. . .]

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Dec 28, 2011 8:32 PM

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: William Crump

December 28 2011, 9:00 PM 


I think there's another thread that deals with the subject. You may post your inquiries there.

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(no login)

Hatred Will Definitely Make You Lose Track...

December 28 2011, 3:56 PM 

Love Love Love Love....the Gospel in a Word is Love.
Love thy neighbor as thy brother....
Love Love Love....

Oh, and Ken, when you start a post with "There are two kinds of love in John 13:," but never list the two kinds of love with a (1) one and a (2) two the message gets diluted as people search for your 1 and 2.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Psalm 109 MARKS the modern Lucifer-Judas sons

December 28 2011, 10:13 PM 

I have noted that one of the key dupes manipulated by the NACC actually boasts that they took the youth to those retreats featuring the Judas-Performance to CAUSE THEM TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. A Judas goat causes the lambs to follow him as they are led to the slaughter: music means "to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter."

Psalm 109 and connected passages prove that JUDAS or the Son of Perdition wanted to TRIUMPH OVER Jesus. We showed in the other post that God did not let Judas be supreme over Jesus. This has the same meaning as Venus, Zoe or Lucifer. The Latin proves that Judas--the flute player--thought that he could supplant the righteous son of Judah. The Methods are EXACTLY what the Judas agents do today: try to rule over Jesus of Nazareth with all of the hypocritic arts. They ARE of the Devil because no one has found that command, example or remote inference that when the assembly was called vocal or instrumental rejoicing was excluded. These people who have invited the devil to indwell them are marked by the SOP which hasthe same root meaning as PSALLO.

They imitate the pattern of Lucifer or Judas who was the Son of Perdition at that time and Lucifer-Judas as the Son of Perdition is slurping up as many as he/she can because time is short.

The other kind of love is that of the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: speakers, singers and instrument player.

The Judas Goats have another kind of love:

"I just love the sinners: love them roasted and tender."

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(no login)

Re: Hatred Will Definitely Make You Lose Track...

December 28 2011, 11:35 PM 

Dave talks of "love," but if he isn't willing to show "love" toward those who disagree with him, then his talk is cheap. So let Dave prove himself. If he has "love," then he will never again bash, berate, insult, or denigrate anyone who disagrees with him. I'd like to see Dave, the "shepherd" of Clemson, SC, turn over a new leaf, but, frankly, I don't think he ever will.

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(no login)

Editng No More....

December 28 2011, 10:09 PM 

That will be the last time that you edit my message.
Good day!


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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

John 13 Psalm 69 Psalm 109 etal

December 29 2011, 12:47 PM 

I will post more of John 13 as it connects to Psalm 109, Psalm 41 etc.

The Pagan Thesis of Eros Love is manifested in an outburst of charismatic body worship including playing or making love to musical instruments.

The Antithesis of LOVE is that no Disciple can possible lie, cheat and steal the work product of widows and honest working people. The is the Judas-Lucifer-Son of Perdition rearing its ugly head and even boasting of TRIUMPHING over "our movement" with the muse of music.

The problem with performance singing-ceremonial legalism--which is performed FOR musical instruments either literal or virtual.

It is only logical that the masses will find itself deluded and performing lying wonders--theatrical preaching, singing, playing and dancing: that is what Christ and all recorded history identifies as the literal meaning of a hypocrite.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Notes on John 13 and Judas the Musical Deceiver

December 29 2011, 8:58 PM 

One of the things David did was quote a verse whose context contradicted his thesis that LOVE trumps TRUTH.

I play disciple and do a quick study of the story of a chapter and what the Greek and Latin speakers would have understanding just by reading the text. You should grasp that these quick collections of information not available at the once-Christian colleges are NOT sermons or novels: I provide the clickables which the rare disciple can used to enter the ancient culture. Some print them out to read during the SELF glorification sermons and embarasing praise singers.

That rich culture fails to inform all of the doctors of the law whom Jesus said "take away the key to knowledge." When He called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites every literate person would immediately grasp that he was repudiating the self-speakers, singers and instrument players. They cannot grasp that as the Levites were SOOTHSAYERS with instrumental accompaniment set to EXECUTE people who came near and the self-speakers, singers and instrument players in Revelation 18 were SORCERERS doomed for the lake of fire.

I don't know what that means but Jesus identified a species OF THE WORLD for which He would not pray because they were not the lost spirits He came to rescue. Even the "conservative" preachers can cut you to the bone if you write about THAT WHICH they and others are using to fool the foolish.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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