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ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


April 6 2012, 11:35 AM 

Fungi grow -- Preachers GO
Foolish pay -- Parasites Stay

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Apr 6, 2012 11:38 AM

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(no login)

Re: growth

April 6 2012, 2:26 PM 

Ken, learn when to shut up.

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: growth

April 6 2012, 2:48 PM 

You really meant for Ken to shut up ALL the time, correct?

No!!! We have: (1) freedom of speech; (2) freedom of religion; (3) recorded historical information which supports biblical TRUTH THAT misinformed Christians reject.

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(no login)

Re: growth

April 7 2012, 1:28 AM 

Actually, I meant for Ken to keep his sarcastic comments to himself; but I'll settle for him shutting up for good. He has no business trying to teach anything. All he wants to do is argue.

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: growth

April 7 2012, 3:04 AM 

You are not required to learn what Ken teaches. There are others, including myself, who are interested and actually learn historical facts and evidences that he has presented through the years.

The reality is that Ken, among the posters, argues the least with other posters. Most of what he has accomplished has been: quote ... quote ... quote from the Holy Scripture; research ... research ... research historical facts; then share and disseminate ... disseminate ... disseminate the researched information that justifies what the Scripture has already recorded -- the good or the bad, righteousness or heathenism, success or failure, etc.

Fungi grow -- Preachers GO
Foolish pay -- Parasites Stay

There's a lot of truth in that "sarcasm." Know more about the "Acts of the Change Agents" operating in the brotherhood, and you will know and understand why.

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: I think he is a dangerous alien

April 6 2012, 4:26 PM 


I was referring to the church from the perspective of its statistical data during that particular period -- NOT from a viewpoint that the church of Christ in the 1960s was not the same as in 1900 or 1850.

Here's a portion from an article:

Statistics about the Churches of Christ

... -- but the 20th Century marked a very significant growth among churches of Christ. Some numbers to put out to you:

The increase from about 150,000 members in 1906: Ten years later in 1916 the number of members of churches of Christ would rise to about 317,000. That, of course, is an increase of more that 100%. By 1926, a decade beyond that, the numbers in churches of Christ had grown to over 433,000. This represents an additional 50% growth over the previous census.

... Well, by the 1960s,total membership had grown to possibly as high as 2 ½ million. The Yearbook of American Churches for 1967 lists the membership of the church of Christ at over 2.3 million. Also, in 1967, Louis Cassels, who was the religious editor for the United Press International [UPI], called the churches of Christ "the fastest-growing major religious body in the United States."

The accuracy of statistical data may be an issue (as in the case of the 1906 census -- I do not have the stats for the Christian Church/Disciples/Independents membership), but my point is simply that it has been the same church of Christ as a "religious body," statistically speaking, in 1967, in 1826, etc.

If you insist that "the church of the 50s" had its own stance, I must insist also that the church's stance on the New Testament truth and principles during that period was closer to that of the church during the Restoration Movement.

Let's not mistake the church upholding the truth and church growth as being parallel or identical. Otherwise, one would have to acknowledge that the Roman Catholic Church, dominated by HUMAN TRADITIONS, with its membership being over a billion [of course, it may be counting babies, small children and dead saints] has the truth.

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Tom Brite
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Restoration Movement

April 7 2012, 11:26 AM 

Donnie, one good thing about this site is that it shows a clear delineation of the two philosophies that have risen from the "Restoration Movement." It is rather easy in doing historical research to see that many of the early "leaders" of the Restoration Movement utilized the plea that "we are Christians only, but not the only Christians." Over the years, many in this movement have shifted this line of thinking to "Christians Only, and the Only Christians." In fact, there is a book written in the 90's with this exact title.

The problem is that this later motto was not the motto of the early Restoration Movement. It is a mutation of the early Restoration plea. That is fine if you want to accept it, but it has no ties to the original Restoration Movement. So for those on this site to claim ties to the early Restoration Movement is a falsehood which has no ties in reality. Many here have created their own movement and that is obvious.

Now, if you want to talk about new thought coming in and taking control of a congregation, that is fair game and should be discussed, but some should stop this false claim of a connection with the early Restoration Movement because to do so is only a deception to themselves and readers of this site.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

That's a fact

April 7 2012, 10:46 PM 

The Campbell restoration following John Calvin's urge to RESTORE the Church of Christ: this meant removing anything not commanded as necessary.

Christ in the wilderness defined the qahal, synagogue or church of christ.

It was INCLUSIVE of Rest, Reading and Rehearsing. Sabbath means REST and not worship services.
It was EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing including elevated forms of speech.

Just what you would demand if you were to teach a class on law.

The Campbells RESTORED for one shining moment in the West.

Church was A School of Christ (Peter means the Prophets and Apostles)
Worship was reading and musing the Word of God

That was the pattern repeated over and over until singing as an ACT of propaganda was added c. 373

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
hath in every city
them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath day

There was no role and no dole
Nevertheless, I was there in the 50's and no one was pushing the Staff Infection, Musical Worship Teams, musical instruments, dancing or drama. John defines the BEAST (Theiron) as A new style of song or drama.

I don't remember the ANTIS intentionally invading, stuffing the pews, telling lies intending to steal the church house of widows.

Adding three or four more ACTS certainly destroys the church I knew in the 50s where I found a home in Japan, Indiana, Minnesota and Washington state. We attended such a church the first four years of our marriage and didn't know that it was "non-institutional" for 30-40 years.

They were certainly Biblically and Ethically absolutely correct in refusing to take away money from hard working people and sending it to an INSTITUTE whatever their good intentions. They must have known that if you build a MEGA church or semimega church THE DEVIL WILL COME and take it away from you.

GK Wallace denied the BUDGET and he was absolutely biblically and ethically correct. Most evil has come when elders get their hands on too much money and have borrowing power. Thomas Campbell denied that the deacons have the right to "create mental anxiety by going into debt."

Tertullian Aploogy:

as to what he was to do with the rest, explaining to his master that,except an obstinate disinclination to offer sacrifices, he found in the religious services nothing but meetings at early morning for singing hymns to Christ and4 God, and sealing home their way of life by a united pledge to be faithful to their religion, forbidding murder, adultery, dishonesty, and other crimes.

We assemble to read our sacred writings, if any peculiarity of the times makes either forewarning or reminiscence needful.57 However it be in that respect, with the sacred words we nourish our faith,
The tried men of our elders preside over us, obtaining that honour not by purchase, but by established character. There is no buying and selling of any sort in the things of God. Though we have our treasure-chest, it is not made up of purchase-money, as of a religion that has its price. On the monthly day, if he likes, each puts in a small donation; but only if it be his pleasure, and only if he be able: for there is no compulsion; all is voluntary. These gifts are, as it were, piety's deposit fund. For they are not taken thence and spent on feasts, and drinking-bouts, and eating-houses, but to support and bury poor people,

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Bless You Tom!

April 8 2012, 8:59 PM 

Bless you brother with heaps of blessings from our Lord. You will need it here!

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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