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What Is the Pattern to Follow?

April 10 2012 at 11:04 PM
Anonymous  (no login)
from IP address 137.229.78.190

Just curious - what is the pattern we are supposed to follow?


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Apr 11, 2012 12:37 AM


 
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AuthorReply
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: What Is the Pattern to Follow?

April 11 2012, 12:47 AM 

I changed the message title from being "untitled."

This is a great question -- now made controversial by the change agents who no longer subscribe to "the pattern" that the New Testament church is to follow. Let's discuss.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.64.208

The Ekklesia - Synagogue is the pattern

April 11 2012, 11:24 AM 

Christ, the Rock, defined the pattern for the qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness. To avoid panic of camp movement, going to war or celebrating victory, the godly Israelites were called into assembly only for the purpose of transmitting the Word of God down to tribesand smaller groups.

The synagogue always existed for the godly people not involve in the not-commanded sacrificial system which was the flesh-- and blood-- lust of the other national or STATE sacrifices used to confiscate the peoples animals under the ploy that their "god" needed to be fed, clothed, housed and entertained or he/she would get angry and hurt you.

Jesus attended the synagogue

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was,
.....he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day,
.....and stood up for to read.

The Scrolls would be open on the pulpit (not to hold up preachers) and it would have been the scheduled plan of reading: the Prophets were key documents because they were inspired by the Spirit OF (preposition) Christ and defined in inclusive and exclusive statements the plan for a TRUE REST when Messiah came.

Jesus came as the LIGHT of the world and the purpose was to heal spiritual afflictions.

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
.....And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, [Isaiah 61)
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
..... because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;
..... he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted,
......to preach deliverance to the captives,
......and recovering of sight to the blind,
......to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down.
......And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Both Jew and Gentile attended synagogue and both would be prepared to obey the good news when Messiah came.

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
.....hath in every city them that preach him,
.....being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

It would have been considered blasphemy to insert your own experiences or speculation into that "which is writen for our learning."

 
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Anonymous
(Login BrianCade)
66.230.87.239

Re: The Ekklesia - Synagogue is the pattern

April 11 2012, 2:12 PM 

But what is the pattern?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.70.149

Can't read either?

April 11 2012, 3:49 PM 

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
hath in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

To that Jesus added the Lord's Supper which is ALSO to teach or show forth the death of Christ.

That's it.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
137.229.78.190

Re: Can't read either?

April 11 2012, 7:54 PM 

So what is the complete pattern?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.66.43

that's the patter

April 11 2012, 8:18 PM 

That's the pattern. Being Bible literate the Campbells tried to restore

Church is A School of Christ
Worship is Reading and musing the Word.

That's it, that's it, that's it.

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.24.155

Re: that's the patter

April 11 2012, 8:42 PM 

I don't think Anonymous grasps it yet. I don't think Anonymous even wants to grasp it.

 
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john watson smith
(no login)
72.209.196.118

the pattern

April 12 2012, 10:40 AM 

I suggest the beginning of this answer is to look at the following line of reasoning

Col 1 - Christ is the image of God, the head of the church, raised from the dead and has pre-eminence over all things.
Pre eminence meaning first in rank or influence over everything spiritual or physical.

John 10/14 - Christ says that he and the Father are one, and to know him is to know the Father.

John 14 - Christ is the only way to God and no person comes to the Father any other way. There are no alternate ways to salvation and approval by God.

Heb 11 - Humans who come to God must believe that he is and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

To know or be aware of the pattern that we are to follow in worship and life one must conform his or her thinking to the above scripture concepts and absolutes. There is no other name given among men by which we must be saved!

Comments Welcome


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.72.137

That's the "core" as they say.

April 12 2012, 1:44 PM 

For those who love the Lord and are Disciples (students) that is the central purpose driving the assemblies. Whatever minimizes or replaces Christ as the only source is forbidden by the Word and common decency.

Songs and sermons are to teach that which has been written and elders are to teach that which has been taught. That is both a direct command and the mark of those who hunger and thirst to know more about God and the lord.

I don't believe that is widely believed anymore and if the church shrinks or does not grow the only remedy is to feed them with The Word.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
66.230.87.239

Re: that's the patter

April 12 2012, 2:46 AM 

"Read your Bible and figure it out?" Seems you don't know either.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.242.250

Re: That's the Pattern

April 12 2012, 2:42 PM 

John Watson Smith summed it up quite well. Of course, if a person really wants to know the pattern, s/he will read and study the New Testament. If that's odious, then s/he really doesn't want to know the pattern.

 
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Anonymous
(Login BrianCade)
66.230.80.210

Re: That's the Pattern

April 13 2012, 2:36 PM 

IF following the pattern is a salvation issue, don't you think we ought to be able to explain it to those in darkness?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: That's the Pattern

April 14 2012, 1:59 AM 

That "it [whatever] is not a salvation issue" is a typical ultimate response coming from the liberal, progressive side of the aisle.

For example, part of the pattern for the New Testament church is the gospel truth that only when one outside of Christ hears the gospel, believes in Christ, repents and is baptized will that sinner be saved and become God's child and be added to the body of Christ.

That's only one example. But still not only can that part of the pattern become a salvation issue but also that part of the pattern IS A SALVATION ISSUE.

Unless the final step in the process of conversion, which is being baptized, is followed, the sinner DOES NOT BECOME God's child UNLESS and UNTIL he has been buried with Christ in baptism IN ORDER TO HAVE HIS SINS REMITTED. He also must be RISEN with Christ from the burial IN ORDER TO BEGIN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

It is unscriptural to tell the sinner (one outside of Christ) that all he needs to do is "accept Christ as your personal Savior" (i.e., "believe") and he is forgiven of his sins and is SAVED WITHOUT THE BURIAL AND RESURRECTION WITH CHRIST.

That is just one example of many. But that should be a strong point enough to consider: (1) that conversion without baptism or (2) that one is saved BEFORE BAPTISM -- is a serious salvation issue.

Sadly and unfortunately, is the change agents in the brotherhood who are questioning the pattern for the New Testament church.

The change agents go so far as to teach:
(1) That the sinner "accepts Christ" and is saved; he is baptized later on.
(2) That the "office of an elder" is now a modified concept [that of a liberal "shepherd"]
(3) That the "office of a deacon" is insignificant, to be abolished
(4) That the church of Christ is just "another denomination."
(5) ... etc.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
66.230.87.82

Re: That's the Pattern

April 14 2012, 4:36 AM 

So what is the complete pattern? I don't want just part of it.

 
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B
(no login)
74.240.240.115

Re: That's the Pattern

April 14 2012, 8:42 AM 

Follow the commands and directions of Jesus in the Gospels as well as the examples of Christian living given in the apostolic epistles. That is the complete pattern.

There is a thread in the archives entitled "Christ's Requirements for Salvation" by Dr. Bill Crump. It summarizes what Christ requires of us for salvation plus how we must live after we become Christians. All these directions are taken directly from the New Testament.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: That's the Pattern

April 14 2012, 9:11 AM 

I know what you want -- making all excuses for the benefit of the change agents who make an issue of the New Testament pattern for the New Testament church.

The truth in the New Testament is THE PATTERN for the New Testament church. In it you will find the design and structure of the church and its organization -- the office of "elder" (not papacy), the office of "deacon" (not wife, but husband of one wife).

God's design for conversion is that forgiveness of sins in the blood of the Lamb DOES NOT OCCUR PRIOR TO immersion in water (burial and resurrection with Christ in baptism).

THE PATTERN for the church, conversion and Christian living is revealed in the New Testament -- it is plenary.

Do not question the completeness of the New Testament -- be assured: it does not include man's opinions, creeds, viewpoints, assertions, commandments.

 
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Anonymous
(Login BrianCade)
66.230.86.238

Re: That's the Pattern

April 14 2012, 6:27 PM 

So let me re-phrase the question: can anyone articulate for me what the pattern is?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: That's the Pattern

April 14 2012, 11:11 PM 

Brian,

You may be visualizing a literal pattern, such as a dress pattern. We can't help you with that--literally.

But there may be some good resulting from your questions such as: what "the pattern" really is or what "the complete pattern" is.

Because of your persistence in asking (and you may be asking with all sincerity), I would no longer assume that you are that familiar with certain Restoration Movement principles. One of those RM principles -- that the change agents are now rejecting -- is the principle that the New Testament is the pattern for the New Testament church.

Ken Sublett has already mentioned that "which is written for our learning"; the church being a school of Christ; worship is "reading and musing the Word."

John Watson Smith has indicated that the pattern for Christian living (living a sober righteous godly life or "living in holy conduct and godliness") is found in God's truth.

I have provided specific examples of:

(1) God's design for the church in terms of its structure [the elders--not the papal hierarchy and ascendancy in the Roman Catholic Church; the deacons--not the deaconesses]; etc.;

(2) God's design for the conversion process--cannot be without the burial in baptism with Christ and resurrection with Him to begin newness of life;

(3) God's design for Christian living--loving God and neighbor [faith without works is DEAD], remaining faithful to the end in order to be rewarded "the crown of life," life everlasting;

Brian, the pattern is the New Testament -- it is our complete guide.

When the change agents are advocating that the elders make decisions for the congregation without consulting the New Testament for boundaries and limitations (e.g., "let us now implement the use of inanimate, lifeless [not to mention "divisive"] musical devices in "public worship"), the New Testament as a pattern is being rejected and violated.

When the change agents advocate that baptism is no longer essential as many of them now believe that one can be saved beforehand or without it [thanks to the pro-Baptist Max Lucado, et al], the New Testament as a pattern or guide is rejected and violated.

When the change agents abuse and misuse God's grace in Christian living, they are in violation of the New Testament as a pattern or guide because the Christian under God's grace is still responsible to maintain good works (Titus 3:8,14; James 2:17,24).

Indeed, the New Testament is the pattern or guide that Christians are to follow.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.9.95

"Can Anyone Articulate for Me What the Pattern Is?"

April 14 2012, 11:22 PM 

A man found a cave and went into it. The passage went straight back into a mountain for a mile, then abruptly stopped at a dead end.

"How am I gonna get out of here?" mused the man to himself.

Waving his flashlight around, the man saw a message written on the wall: "To leave the cave, turn around and go back out the way you came in."

That seemed much too easy for the man, so he hollered and screamed, "WHAT'S THE PATTERN FOR GETTING OUT OF HERE? CAN ANYONE ARTICULATE FOR ME WHAT THE PATTERN IS?"

Some people look for the complex and difficult way to solve a problem when the simple answer is staring them right in the face.

If you want to know what pattern Christ set for us, read His Words and those of the apostles whom He inspired in the New Testament. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

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At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

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5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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