Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

The Promoted Pattern At Concerned Members

April 20 2012 at 12:18 AM
Sonny  (no login)
from IP address 99.186.93.107

Brother Ken's Emphasized Pattern

Instrumental music is unacceptable worship.
Singing is unacceptable worship.
The Book of Enoch and Greek Mythology have the pattern and help us understand the pattern.
Paying a preacher is unacceptable evangelism.
Instrumental worship is unacceptable worship equated with whores.
The Holy Spirit is not the third person in the Godhead.


Brother Cruz's Emphasized Pattern

Anything Madison C of C does different from traditions of men is NOT the pattern.
A false teacher is a change agent and a change agent is anyone who is different from 1950.
Instrumental music is unacceptable worship.
Praise teams are unacceptable leaders of worship.
Clapping is unacceptable accompaniment of singing.
Only the Church of Christ properly baptizes believers.
The Holy Spirit is not the third person in the Godhead.


Brother Crump's Emphasized Pattern

Instrumental music is unacceptable worship.
Only proper English grammar is acceptable on an internet religious forum.
The KJV is the New Testament pattern Jesus and the apostles used.
Only buildings with a Church of Christ name on the building or sign in the yard are potentially true followers of Jesus.
Most buildings with a Church of Christ name on the building or sign in the yard are not true followers of Jesus.
The Holy Spirit is not the third person in the Godhead.


They do not mention confessing sins, praying for others, helping the poor, visiting those in prison, worshiping from the heart, tithing, grace, not judging, spiritual gifts, helping widows over sixty but not under sixty, greeting others with a holy kiss, humility, fasting, the Holy Spirit is the third person in the Godhead, baptism is about dying to self, the proper pattern for communion, or the apostolic pattern for singing in four part harmony with a pitch pipe.

-Sonny

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: The Promoted Pattern At Concerned Members

April 20 2012, 2:45 AM 

Sonny,

Good to hear from you again.

Your writing style (its contents) has changed from when you initially posted with much interest to "learn" [I guess that was probing]. Now, it is apparent where your alignment is -- with the change agents. Maybe, I understand now why you mentioned at the outset that some in your family and among your relatives are still conservative and "traditional." [I do not like these designations: (1) for those who are loyal to Christ and His church and the New Testament truth and (2) for those with liberal and progressive stances.]

Your lists of doctrinal issues are fine. It's just that in many cases, you're putting words in our mouths. That's being deceptive on your part. But, hopefully, the readers know better as to why you're doing that.

You've covered a lot in one post. We will not be able to discuss everything under one thread. But I'll start out with your last paragraph. Some of these items are topics that we basically agree on: helping the poor, visiting those in prison, humility. But if anyone wishes to discuss different doctrinal matters, then, feel free to do so.

We do mention and discuss matters that you said we "do not mention." So, I have no idea where that came from. We have discussed:

(1) tithing--not applicable to Christians;
(2) spiritual gifts--often confused with "natural gifts"
(3) grace--often abused and misused by "once saved, always saved"
(4) Holy Spirit--how did you come up with the THIRD person?
(5) singing--pitch pipe, not used WHILE singing, is not a factor
(6) ... and others.

OK, I think I have a few minutes to respond to "Brother Cruz's Pattern According to Sonny" separately.

 
 Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login BrianCade)
216.67.46.48

Re: The Promoted Pattern At Concerned Members

April 20 2012, 4:14 PM 

It's just that in many cases, you're putting words in our mouths. That's being deceptive on your part.

But it's okay for you to do it? I thought turnabout was fair play. Come on...

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

But it's okay for you to do it?

April 21 2012, 5:41 PM 

Brian,

Then, why not say it ain't so ... and explain?

The "turnabout" as "fair play" is explained in my responses below. See if you can tell the difference between Sonny's assertions and my statements.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

"Brother Cruz's Emphasized Pattern," by Sonny Elliot

April 20 2012, 3:38 AM 

"Brother Cruz's Emphasized Pattern" (by Sonny)
  1. Anything Madison C of C does different from traditions of men is NOT the pattern.

    RESPONSE: Anything that any congregation teaches and practices that is not taught by Christ and His apostles is not according to the New Testament pattern.

  2. A false teacher is a change agent and a change agent is anyone who is different from 1950.

    RESPONSE: A change agent is one who works internally in the body of Christ with the objective to modify the teachings of Christ and the apostles, restructure the church and transform it into a denomination, create confusion and division. The expression "different from 1950" is of the change agents' origin.

  3. Instrumental music is unacceptable worship.

    RESPONSE: There's no directive from God to "worship" Him with the mechanical operation of lifeless, inanimate musical objects -- not in the Old Testament; not in the New Testament. Of course, we know that certain of "God's followers" [supposedly] GOT NAKED, DANCED and PLAYED MUSIC BEFORE THE LORD in private [?]. Whew! That was NOT in front of or in the midst of the congregation. BUT THE PAGANS DID THE SAME -- DANCED AND PLAYED MUSIC.

  4. Praise teams are unacceptable leaders of worship.

    RESPONSE: Good that you mentioned "leaders" for clarification. The CHOIR leaders are comprised of both men and WOMEN. Women leaders, Sonny? Not to mention performances and the DEATH of congregational singing.

  5. Clapping is unacceptable accompaniment of singing.

    RESPONSE: Clapping in itself is fine. Just don't disturb your neighboring congregants. RHYTHMIC JOY of handclapping is not spontaneous joy. Applause or cheerleading belongs in concerts and sport events.

  6. Only the Church of Christ properly baptizes believers.

    RESPONSE: The church does not baptize believers. Those outside of Christ go through the process of conversion according to God's plan. Conversion does not stop at one's faith in God's Son. He must be BURIED with Christ in baptism in order to have sins remitted in the blood of the Lamb, then resurrected with Him to begin newness of life. What is wrong with what the New Testament teaches about conversion?

  7. The Holy Spirit is not the third person in the Godhead.

    RESPONSE: The Trinity doctrine was invented by the Roman Catholic Church, and so was "the Virgin Mary, Mother of God." How in the world did they (and you) come up with this numbering system -- third person? Only third????? We've discussed this often and in detail.

 
 Respond to this message   
ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.254.155.14

Re: "Brother Cruz's Emphasized Pattern," by Sonny Elliot

April 20 2012, 4:57 PM 

Here is Sonny's Godhead. Does that mean in his own image? that may explain people speaking out of 6 sides of their mouths?


[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 174.254.155.14 on Apr 20, 2012 5:00 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: "Brother Cruz's Emphasized Pattern," by Sonny Elliot

April 21 2012, 4:40 PM 

This is a very simple but effective explanation of the man-made (Catholic and Protestant-propagated) doctrine of the Trinity.

I love this illustration, Ken. A picture is worth more than a thousand words.

Can anyone find scripture that shows that God's followers are to worship His (God's) own holy spirit?

Isn't it conflicting to "worship God" and also to "worship the Spirit of God"? That is, if "the Spirit OF God" = "God"?

If "the spirit OF God" = "God" ... does that really make sense? To explain that as equivalent to stating that "the NOSE of David" = "David" ... I imagine that would confuse even a kindergartener.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.179.12.95

Re: The Promoted Pattern At Concerned Members

April 20 2012, 5:05 PM 

If Sonny has ever read the lead post in the thread entitled "Christ's Requirements for Salvation" by Dr. Bill Crump, Sonny will learn how to become a Christian and how to remain one.

 
 Respond to this message   
ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.254.155.14

Re: The Promoted Pattern At Concerned Members

April 20 2012, 5:15 PM 

Tell him that DISCIPLES do not invent dogma!
What is a Disciple?

A. A disciple goes to the school of Christ and makes up his own textbook. OR
B. A disciple of Christ sits down and shuts up in holy reverence and "leaves the teaching to Jesus Christ" as the Bible and common decency demands.


 
 Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(no login)
216.67.71.220

Re: The Promoted Pattern At Concerned Members

April 20 2012, 11:30 PM 

Problem is, he's right about you Ken.

 
 Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.252.153.18

Re: The Promoted Pattern At Concerned Members

April 21 2012, 10:30 PM 

1Chronicles 25:1 Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service [hard bondage: the Abaddon Word]
......of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun,
......who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals:
......and the number of the workmen according to their service was:
1Chronicles 25:2 Of the sons of Asaph; Zaccur, and Joseph, and Nethaniah, and Asarelah,
......the sons of Asaph under the hands of Asaph,
......which prophesied according to the order of the king.
1Chronicles 25:3 Of Jeduthun: the sons of Jeduthun; Gedaliah, and Zeri, and Jeshaiah, Hashabiah, and Mattithiah, six,
......under the hands of their father Jeduthun,
......who prophesied with a harp,
.....to give thanks and to praise the LORD.

QUESTION: Who commanded the instruments?

WHAT DO THE LEVITES DO?

Propheta
and prphtes , ae, m., = prophetes,
I. a foreteller, soothsayer, prophet (post-class.; cf. vates): prophetas in Adrasto Julius nominat antistites fanorum oraculorumque interpretes, Fest. p. 229 Müll. (Trag. Rel. p. 194 Rib.): prophetae quidam, deorum majestate completi, effantur ceteris, quae divino beneficio soli vident, App. de Mundo, p. 56, 29:


DID YOU SAY THAT GOD COMMANDED "SOOTHSAYERS WITH MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS?

Where did the Levites get the PATTERN for SOOTHSAYING with instruments.

sacerdotes Aegyptiorum, quos prophetas vocant, Macr. S. 7, 13, 9: Aegyptius, propheta primarius,

Oh! Egypt. So God commanded Egyptian Soothsayers with instruments as the PATTERN for all of the instrumental banditos of widow's purses?

WHAT IS A PROPHETA PRIMAS?

primarius , a, um, adj. id.,
I. one of the first, of the first rank, chief, principal, excellent, remarkable (class.): primarius parasitus,the first speaker, he who has a right to be heard,


God did not command sacrifices or burnt offerings: sacrificing an ox is like killing a man.
All religious musicians were called PARASITES. They ate up the widow's living and produced nothing since we literates don't practice EXORCISM any more.

SO GOD COMMANDED PARASITIC SOOTHSAYERS WITH MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS WHERE PARASITIC IS "THE ONE WITH AUTHORITY TO SPEAK"?

If you believe ANY of that I have an old obsolete asbestos suit I will sell cheap since all sothseayers, sorcerers, witches (10,000 TO !) Warlock boasting about making worship wars. Contrary to all of the PROMISES about musical witches trying to silence Him they will (or have) been cast alive into the Lake of Fire. Maybe God will give you a "pass" and just let you listen to whiney-piney hand flanging, hand clapping GOAT (cappella) singers for all eternity.

Jesus and Peter called them a CROOKED RACE: the literature points to the male symposium and the skolion singers. Even they were decent enough to "send out the flute-girl and harp-boy" when as gentelmen they had something important to discuss.

John called them a A RACE OF VIPERS. Because Jesus refused to speak to them without using parables to keep them from knowing any secrets, and Cain was OF that wicked one (serpent) and was Eve was WHOLLY SEDUCED; and because not of those caught with their hand in the purse can recognize or confess, there is no reason to believe that these are not the EVIL SPIRIT who as rhetoricians, singers and instrument players in Revelation 18 are called SORCERERS who HAD DECEIVED THE WHOLE WORLD.

They can mock but can't confess THEIR pattern.






 
 Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(no login)
216.67.48.178

Re: The Promoted Pattern At Concerned Members

April 22 2012, 3:31 AM 

Apparently, neither can you.

 
 Respond to this message   
 
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter