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Patterns Legalism and Grace Alexander Campbell John Mark Hicks

April 20 2012 at 5:50 PM
ken sublett  (Login Ken.Sublett)
from IP address

Church of Christ Legalists

John Mark Hicks claims that Alexander Campbell just defined the Ancient Order as a goal toward which people should work. However, he claims that Alexander continue to FELLOWSHIP those SECTS he claimed to have tried to destroy.

Is there no shame left "among the scholars?"

John Mark Hicks is promoting the idea that all of the process of remission of sins is accomplished by a direct operation of the Holy Spirit (people) and that just LEADS to baptism. This is apparently the Lipscomb University Pattern.

Hicks is so certain that he speaks of "Recovery of the Gospel. Alexander Campbell and Baptism.

The worst part is that he tries to implicate Alexander Campbell in his folly and this is apparently an embarrassment to Churches of Christ. This is of course absolutely false

I believe that this is a plot with the World History of the Stone Campbell Movement which is, of course, telling a lie. At that time Campbell was a Baptist and Stone remarked.

Baptist History Chapter VIII the Schism of Alexander Campbell T. Christian/vol2/history2_part3_08.htm

When he came into Kentucky, I heard him often in public and in private. I was pleased with his manner and matter. I saw no distinctive feature between the doctrine he preached and that which we had preached for many years, except on baptism for the remission of sins. Even this I had once received and taught, as before stated, but had strangely let it go from my mind, till Brother Campbell revived it afresh. I thought then he was not sufficiently explicit on the influences of the Spirit, which led many honest Christians to think he denied them. Had he been as explicit then, as since, many honest souls would have been still with us, and would have greatly aided the good cause. In a few things I dissented from him, but was agreed to disagree (Rogers).

John Mark Hicks The Lipscomb University view John would call antiChrist:

John called this ANTICHRISTIAN

Iconic Trinitarianism

Andrei Rublev painted the Holy Trinity around 1411. He was beatified by the Russian Orthodox Church as St. Andrei solely for the extraordinary intensity and majesty of this icon. The image embodies the essence of Trinitarian dogma. The icon portrays the visit of the angels to Abraham in Genesis 18 but excludes Abraham and Sarah from the picture in order to focus on the dogmatic meaning of the Trinity. The three sit around a table with a chalice as the centerpiece.

.....The figure on the left--the Father--is arrayed in an indistinct gold (a transcendent tone),
.....the figure in the middle--the Son--in brown (an earthy tone),
.....and the figure on the right--the Holy Spirit--in green (the vibrancy of living earth).
.....Each one is also dressed in blue to represent their equality--THEY are divine.
.....The unity and diversity of the triune life is thus pictured in vivid colors.

Rublev depicts the theophany in an open circle with their heads gracefully inclined toward each other. The circular pattern

..........embodies the theological idea of perichoresis
..........the loving dance of the Triune persons.

Their faces are filled with peace and harmony while their gestures are gentle and loving. The Father and Son look at each other lovingly while the Spirit looks at the chalice as if to descend upon the cup. The chalice represents the Eucharist which is the center of Orthodox liturgy and its theology of redemption. The Eucharist is communion with the Triune God.

The open circle invites others to come to the table and experience the divine community. We are invited into the inner circle of Gods own life to sit at the table of God with God.


[linked image]

I think I am getting sick: this IS of Biblical proportions. This promotes the same PERSONA as the "Musical Worship Team" which is also blaspheming the Spirit Of Christ.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on May 5, 2014 10:34 PM

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Re: John Mark Hicks Alexander Campbell DISCOVERS remission of sins.

May 31 2012, 2:44 AM 

A remarkable series of non sequiters.

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Acts of the Change Agents: Restructuring the Church of Jesus Christ

May 31 2012, 4:44 AM 


The change agents (Al Maxey, John Mark Hicks, Rubel Shelly, Max Lucado, Jeff Walling, Rick Athley, et al) are no longer proud of their Restoration heritage. They're embarrassed by the claim that "it is their heritage, but _________." They all seek every opportunity to REWRITE the history of the Movement. What are they doing? REFORMING the Restoration Movement?

They're the first ones to gladly tell their denominational friends that the church that Christ Himself established is no different from the religious groups to which their friends belong. These agents say: "We're all [denominations] in this together, ALL OF US comprising the universal body of Christ." [What's that supposed to mean? The Roman Catholic Church, Seventh Day Adventist Church, Jehovah's Witnesses included?] Disgusting!!! "The church of Christ is outdated -- it needs restructuring very badly," the change agents believe and say. Disgusting as well!!!

When the change agents begin advocating, as the Baptists are, that salvation (redemption of sins) occurs the moment one outside of Christ believes (has faith) and that baptism is only symbolic of the redemption that has already occurred, there is a problem. Why not simply join the Southern Baptist Association?

These are only a few of several issues that the church of Jesus Christ now has to contend with -- thanks to the change agents who do not even seem to realize that they are anti-church of Christ.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Acts of the Change Agents: Restructuring the Church of Jesus Christ

June 1 2012, 1:06 PM 

A remarkable series of non sequiters.

A disciple does not focus on PATTERNS: a disciple is a student of the Word. When people presume to teach the Word out of Webster's dictionary you know that they are not a diligent seeker and therefore has no insterest in coming to Christ as Master and Master Teacher.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:
.....for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
.....and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Faith is that spark which gives one the goal of diligently seeking Him. The Hebrew writer gave an example:

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah,
.....being warned of God of things not seen as yet,
.....moved with fear,
.....prepared an ark to the saving of his house; the which he condemned the world,
.....and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.


1Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient,
.....when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
.....while the ark was a preparing,
.....wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Peter 3:21 The like figure [A PATTERN TO BE IMITATED]
.....whereunto even baptism doth also now save us
.....(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
.....but the answer [request: not a demand)
.....of a good conscience toward God,) [A holy spirit:ours]
.....Who is gone into heaven,
.....and is on the right hand of God;
.....angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. [CENI]


[linked image]

No, Godly, Bible-literate Christians will not FOLLOW when the orator pontificate or the trumpeter blows:

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Jun 1, 2012 1:18 PM

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john watson smith
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Lu and propaganda

June 1 2012, 5:19 PM 

It seems to be expected when some leave the truth they start a propaganda process similar in some ways to those in the political arena. Consistency is sought with previous wild and crazy statements about the "king james mindset" and the need to drop our traditions which are "narrow and rigid" . What we get is a new set of traditions of men which change with the wind. Yet those with the change agent mindset are ready to downplay any thing from the faithful that is a disciplined approach to study and rightly dividing the word. There is no support from Campbell and others of his time for the present meandering wandering approach to Bible study.

This present situation with change agents has been brought on partly by the lack of leadership. In Judges 1 and 2 we are told of the people of God who did not force out those who worshiped idols and did make agreements with them. There is a lesson there for leaders. These change agents should have their ideas rebuked and the strict following of the Bible upheld regardless of the consequences. These people were allowed to remain in places of influence in various churches and were held above the simple literal Bible scholars among us. I know of a current church that has stated they don't know what a false teacher is and have promoted change agents from chief talker to deacon and now maybe elder. This church will be plucked like a chicken by the change agents.

Comments welcome

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(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Lu and propaganda

October 1 2012, 4:18 PM 


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john watson smith
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No way are faithful churches recovering the Gospel

October 3 2012, 2:07 PM 

Through the years I have known a great number of preachers and not one of them would look with favor of fellowship with the denominations which use instrumental music and other errors. These preachers would not participate in anything which appeared to be evil. I know this from first hand knowledge of what they taught and believed. There is no recovery of the Gospel by fellowship with error filled churches - only the falling away from the Gospel.

Comments Welcome

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: No way are faithful churches recovering the Gospel

October 3 2012, 4:49 PM 

These people are simple dupes of the NACC which was conceived and birthed in the need to denounce and destroy churches which will not AFFIRM their use of instruments or JOIN with them.

They have been procured by the Disciples and the Standard which promotes them and their false writings. It's all about commerce.

They discovered that the number who agree with them is very small and they utterly failedin RESTRUCTURING all Churches of Christ. They blow a mighty breath but they are all wind.

Furthermore, not ONE of these churches or pseudo scholars would FELLOWSHIP anyone who could read the bible and history about instruments. They would let you put something in the pot but they would NOT let you teach or say very much in a Bible class.

That means that they are hypocrites just as Jesus identified the Scribes and Pharisees (marketers instead of teachers) as slick speakers, singers and instrument players. The MARK is that neither they hypocrites (performers) or their audience is interested in doing the Word of God.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: No way are faithful churches recovering the Gospel

October 6 2012, 1:59 PM 

I have updated my review of

John Mark Hicks Patterns Legalism and Grace Alexander Campbell.

I am always amazed that I am amazed that people can deliberately take phrases out of context and then use the RACA words against them. For instance.

John Mark Hicks: John Mark Hicks:  Campbells series intended to identify particulars where the church of the present day needed to be brought up to the standard of the NewTestament. To restore the ancient order of things is to bring the disciples individually and collectively, to walk in the faith, and inthe commandments of the Lord and Saviour, as presented in that blessedvolume (CB 3 [7 February 1825] 124-128).

What John Mark Hicks fails to acknowledge that this is an--

Extract from the Minutes of the Baptist Missionary Association of Kentucky, began and held at the Town-Fork Meeting House, in Fayette county, on Saturday, the 11th September, 1824.

"It is obvious to the most superficial observer, who is at all acquainted with the state of Christianity and of the church of the New Testament, that much, very much is wanting, to bring the Christianity and the church of the present day up to that standard--In what this deficiency consists, and how it is to be remedied, or whether it can be remedied at all, are the points to be discovered and determined. In the deliberations intended, it is designed to take these subjects into serious consideration, and to report the result by way of suggestion and advisement to the Baptist Christian community,

John Mark Hicks: It is clear that the ancient order is serious business for Campbell. It is a matter of obedience to the commands of the New Testament. The series was a call to the church of his day to conform to the order contained in the New Testament, that is, to conform to the apostolic pattern in the New Testament.

All historic church scholars and founders of denominations sought to restore THE APOSTOLIC CHURCH. It is only the latter days who believe that there is NO truth (YET THEY SELL THEIR VERSION), that people have blasphemed the Spirit OF Christ by denying His often demand to teach that which is written. There IS NO PATTERN for the "doctors of the Law" who "take away the key to knowledge." but the pattern ordained before the instrumental fall from grace defines what Campbell defined A School of Christ. It has no role and no dole for people preaching their OWN pattern which leaves Jesus out of the picture.

Jesus warned about STRONG DELUSIONS so that people cannot do anything more than propose NEW PERFORMANCE patterns which is the LEGALISM defining Apollo (Abaddon or Apollyon>

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Patterns Legalism and Grace Alexander Campbell John Mark Hicks

March 26 2014, 10:13 AM 

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Patterns Legalism and Grace Alexander Campbell John Mark Hicks

March 26 2014, 10:14 AM 

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