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Madison's New (Instrumental) 'Vision'

June 11 2012 at 3:32 AM
MCC-Torn  (no login)
from IP address 174.50.253.151

Original Message (June 11 2012 at 3:32 AM):





Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"


Last month the elders announced Madison's new "vision" that approves the use of instrumental music. If someone wrote about this I didn't see it.

They said that using instruments is not a "salvation issue". Both services will use acappella music for now, but the first service will now get a praise team like the second service. And the second service will have more creative worship.

But the youth group gets to start using instrumental music. They said light acoustical instruments.

This seems like a huge change so I was surprised not to see it here yet.




_________________________

NOTE:The information above has been submitted anonymously. Meanwhile, we have opted to substitute "Concerned" for "Anonymous" as the name. The message remains unedited.
-----------------------

We've heard from the author who is a long-time member of Madison and would like to be identified as "MCC-Torn" [... and appropriately so].
=================================================



=================================================
Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision": Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps ANATHEMA
By Ken Sublett



Heritage Church of Christ following the ACU pattern has imposed what he calls instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Heritage.Church.of.Christ.Instrumental.Music.html

Jim Hackney led by the NACC at ACU gives his "proof texts" all of which are lies because he does not know the context.

http://www.piney.com/Jim.Hackney.Instrumental.Music.in.Worship.html

The expression "having cymbals and psalteries and harps" is not a pattern for Christian worship: it is defined as the worship of Apollo (abaddon, Apollyon) and Dionysus first outed at Mount Sinai. If God turned them over to worship the starry host, and scholars agree that the Jews worshipped the starry host on their way back to Babylon, why do you suppose that latter day elders fulfil the warning of Paul against wolves and violently impose the same patternism: Who knows? both the Shadow and any Bible student knows.

http://www.piney.com/Having.Cymbals.and.Psalteries.and.html


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Nov 14, 2015 11:13 PM


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

What Has Happened to Madison?

June 13 2012, 1:43 PM 

It has been quite a history of significant changes at the Madison congregation in the last couple of decades, changes prompted by sorts of religious movements -- Charismatic, Contemporary Christian Music, Community Church, Unity in Diversity, and other Change Movements. These changes have affected not only Protestant religious groups but also a number of "mega" churches of Christ including Oak Hills, Richland Hills, Woodland Hills [and other "Hills"] and Madison.

The word for it all is "INFILTRATION" and subsequently "ACQUISITION," like it or not. While some of the "transformed" congregations would still cling to being part of "the churches of Christ [that] salute you" (Romans 16:16), there's no reason for them to do so. The Oak Hills Church (formerly "of Christ") dropped His name. Its "shepherds" headed by its "Reverend Pastor" Max Lucado [just loving the title when addressed by in denominational assemblies and conventions], because of cultural and social stigma, made an "executive" decision to remove its affiliation publicly with anything that is "church of Christ." Well, the reality is that the Oak Hills Church is a Community Church -- which may still have certain attributes that are unique to the New Testament church. Fact is: When a "Baptist" or "Methodist" or "Presbyterian" Church drops that specific identity to become a one-size-fits-all "Community Church," such an identity vanisheth away.

The Community Church Movement is not unique to churches of Christ. In fact, it has grown out of a denominational background. The chief models are the Willow Creek Association of Churches and the Willow Creek Community Church and the Saddleback Community Church. There are "Church of Christ" members of the WCA. Surprised?

What is the Oak Hills Church to anyone who is not aware of its history? What is the "Family of God Church" [formerly Woodland Hills Church of Christ] to anyone who is not aware of its history?

Is the Madison congregation that far behind?

Here are threads that detail the experiences that Madison has gone through during its "transformation":


Archives 1
http://www.concernedmembers.com/forumarchives/madison/021126.html (currently not accessible)

Archives 2
http://www.concernedmembers.com/forumarchives/madison/021024g.txt (currently not accessible)

Archives 3
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1027181246

Archives 4
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1041888038

Archives 5
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1049383651

Archives 6
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1062020979

Archives 7
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1074269951

Archives 8
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1100171098

Archives 9
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1110968133

Archives 10
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1115534555

Archives 11
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=150389&messageid=1151042140

Current: 11
WHAT HAPPENED AT MADISON THIS WEEK--The Timeline (Part XII)

See what the following articles have to say about the Madison church's experience outside of ConcernedMembers. While there are differences between CM's historical perspectives and those of the articles, the truth remains that the "changes" were not acceptable overall, and the congregation was divided. The "Praise Team" [a.k.a. "Church of Christ CHOIR"] was the last straw.

As if that [first] division primarily due to the departure from congregational singing were not enough or a "lesson learned," does the congregation's leadership really need to experience and take another risk?


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Madison's Conflict Reflects Broader Issues

June 13 2012, 1:46 PM 

Source: The Christian Chronicle (/Articles)
From the January 2002 Archives.
_________________________________





Madison's Conflict Reflects Broader Issues


LINDY ADAMS



Its name is legendary and brings to mind legendary people and associations. It was our first multi-faceted, multi-programmed mega-church.

It's the church led by Jim Mankin, Jimmy Sites, Steve Flatt and, of course, the inimitable Ira North. It's Amazing Grace Bible Class, Happy Hills Boys Ranch, song leader Nick Boone -- yes, Pat's brother.

It's Madison.

It's the church on Gallatin Road in suburban Nashville, Tenn., which under the leadership of bigger-than-life Ira North, went from being a typical congregation to being what some considered our flagship. In its heyday it was the largest congregation in churches of Christ.

But in recent years Madison has fallen on hard times.

North succumbed to cancer in the 1984 and in the years since the congregation has gone from a well-oiled machine to one in need of overhaul.

However, recent attempts at an overhaul put those committed to the old ways and those seeking the new at terrible odds.

Tensions rose. Tempers flared. Members were set against members. Some left.

At the end of 1998, Madison's Sunday morning attendance was 3,240. Today it is 2,433, a loss of about 800 members, according to Jerry Sherrill, Madison's business administrator.

So traumatic, so heart-breaking, so disconcerting.

But too typical.

Across the nation religious groups from Baha'i to Baptist are embroiled in similar conflict, reports Faith Communities Today, a research project of the Lilly Endowment which released its findings on 42 U.S. religious bodies last March. Frequently the conflict centers on worship issues.

The FACT study -- which included data from congregations among churches of Christ -- found that 59 percent of all religious bodies nationwide changed worship practices a "great deal" in the last five years and that such change brought conflict.

As any attentive observer knows, our fellowship is no exception. Since mid-August, word of conflict in 11 congregations has been reported to the Chronicle. The discord is of several sorts, but often regards worship.

But what happened at Madison?

Some parts of the story are disputed. While Madison's elders declined to discuss the details of the conflict, some members and leaders shared their insights.

The church's troubles began in earnest in early 2001, members say. A contemporary Sunday morning service in the church's basement fellowship hall was added to two existing traditional services. The new gathering quickly outgrew its quarters.

In February, elder Buck Dozier read an elders' statement saying the contemporary service would replace the second traditional Sunday morning service in the main auditorium. The next Sunday some members walked out of the contemporary worship, according to deacon David Hardin.

From that Sunday, the conflict escalated. Madison's prominence drew coverage in local media -- including television reports and two articles in The Tennessean.

A few traditional members, calling themselves "Concerned Members," began a web site with complaints and reports and mailed 2,500 questionnaires to members polling them about issues.

A member from the traditional worship service called publicly for the elders' resignation.

Meanwhile, participants in the contemporary worship chafed under decisions by the elders requiring a mixture of traditional and contemporary songs and regulating the length of the sermon.

Practices including use of a praise team on Sunday morning and singing during communion have been prohibited, according to member David Hardin.

However, other Madison sources say such issues are under study.

In September the elders called for help. Larry Sullivan of the Straus Institute for Dispute Resolution, Pepperdine University, made the first of several visits to Madison to help resolve the difficulties.

Sullivan instructed the congregation in dispute resolution skills, conducted interviews with members from various factions and assembled teams to discuss differences. He said Madison, like many churches, is struggling with addressing contemporary culture without abandoning the truths of Christ's message.

Madison members are frustrated, he said. "They want to reach out and be pertinent to our culture today, yet not lose the underpinnings of the Gospel. I think everybody sees the dilemma and is trying to address it in certain ways."

As Madison seeks resolution to its ills, what in its experience can offer insight to other churches? Certainly that no church, regardless of prominence, age, history or leadership is immune.

Fifteen years ago few members could have imagined the fracturing that has occurred at Madison, according to sources at the congregation.

As the Madison elders said in their February statement, "... we believe that these times challenge us to humbly re-look at what we think and believe. ... We have sought the perfect church in the New Testament, but found them struggling also. We pursued infallible practice and spotless leadership in the Restoration Movement. We found greatness and inspiration, but no perfection. Regardless of our age or position, we all must admit our humanity, and humble ourselves before God."

COMING IN OUR SERIES ON CONFLICT: the Chronicle will examine additional sources of conflict, how to address them and lessons to be learned from congregations who have lived through strife and endured.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Nov 19, 2014 1:26 AM


 
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Randy Julian
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72.66.19.12

Religon is the Opitate of the Masses

February 6 2015, 3:33 PM 

All these conflicts that are and have been going on at Madison Church of Christ seems to me now the most stupid of people actions. I have done a very in depth study of the collection of writings/poems/letters that you call the "Bible" and have come the conclustion that it is all man made. As weel as all religons around the world and through out all history. So you can see how stupid I feel you all are....

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Life Looking Up at Madison, Minister Says

June 13 2012, 1:48 PM 

Source: The Christian Chronicle (/Articles)
From the January 2003 Archives.
_________________________________





Life Looking Up at Madison, Minister Says


LINDY ADAMS



Life is looking up at the Madison church, Madison, Tenn., says Pulpit Minister Bruce White.

In December 2001 to begin a series on church coflict, the Chronicle chose to highlight the situation at Madison. Madison was once our largest congregation with attendance as high as 4,000 and was considered by some our fellowship's flagship.

At the time of our article, Madison's attendance had dropped dramatically and unrest over worship and other issues was prevalent. Some wondered if the congregation would stay intact.

White reports that today, about 14 months later, attendance has stabilized and started upward and other signs showed renewed confidence within the congregation.

After a low in attendance of 1,500 in December 2001, December 2002 attendance figures ran 1,800 White said. He points to encouraging signs such as 100 baptisms in 2002, 60 families placing membership and the addition of three elders and 20 deacons.

But the most positive sign, Madison leaders say, is a special Thanksgiving 2002 donation of $480,000 to retire a portion of the debt on a $7.5 million remodeling of Madison's physical plant completed in recent years.

The donation followed a stewardship study with Kregg Hood on "Take God at His Word." By comparison, the contribution in 2001 was $50,000, White said.

As for the future, Madison plans to turn from looking inward to outward, White said. In the spring the congregation will host an evangelism workshop with Jeff Walling and others to encourage community outreach.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Nov 19, 2014 1:28 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.129.106

Re: What Has Happened to Madison?

September 5 2012, 3:25 PM 

2 Timothy 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,


Like I say and say and say, Scripture ALWAYS defines the pagan THESIS as witchcraft BEFORE he defines the ekklesia-synagogue from which such music was outlawed beginning in the wilderness. Musical Sorcerers are not allowed to read the WHAT NOT TO DO and turn TEACHING into a musical ritual operated by Hypocrites says Jesus quoting Isaiah and Ezekiel.

[linked image]

Now, go ahead and say, BUT!

 
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Darwinian
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98.193.230.19

Instruments

November 5 2012, 9:50 PM 

David played a harp and God was happy with him

The israelites made a golden calf after God hovered over them as a cloud of fire

Abraham had an affair with many women and basically raped his slave and God chose him to be the father of his people

Lot had sex with his daughters

Peter denied Jesus

Thomas saw the miracles and had to put his hands in the holes

Somehow there were numerous people when Cain killed Abel

Somehow there were numerous people and cities shortly after flood

God felt a need to scramble language at tower of babel(we have larger buildings now and can fly to moon)

I don't speak for God, but from what I read in the Bible that doesn't confuse me, leads me to believe that a harp in worship is the last of his worries.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.69.173

Re: Instruments

November 5 2012, 11:02 PM 

David played a harp and God was happy with him.

David was a man after God's own heart: that means that God PICKED him to be the murderous oriental potentate AFTER they rejected God's rule over them.

One would have to be beyond beyond to think that God approved of David's sin. The Jacob cursed Levites were under the KING and COMMANDERS of the ARMY: they made war with human means and slaughter because they rejected God's plan to drive the enemy out.

David was KING of a God-cursed Monarchy to carry on the WORSHIP of the Starry Host (Missed Acts 7, eh?). David wrote warrior's boast songs and not worship songs. He was never a "musical worship leader" as far as we know never attended the Christ-Ordained Church in the wilderness where "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" as well as "elevated speech" was outlawed.

You can sing, dance, go naked and make yourself VILE with the camp-following girls by not in SYNAGOGUE if you please.

You need to study really hard to grasp that Qahal, synagogue or Ekklesia is a WORD ONLY assembly where theatrics occured in the Greek Ekklesia only when the women put on beards and took control over the males.

A Disciple is to be taught to "observe" what Jesus Christ taught: that is spelled CENI. Then you have 175 or so hours a week to Eat, drink and make merry. Hebrews 12 quoting the musical fall from Grace at Mount sinai warns of those who do not approach God with reverence and Godly fear that GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE

However, even THINKING that music is GOD COMMANDED when you have no evidence may make you guilty of blaspheming the Spirit OF Christ in the prophets ALL of whom denounce Religious Instrumental music as the CAUSE of the people hungering and thirsting for the Word and NOT being able to find it. Christ speaks through the Prophets and Apostles and men like Paul and Peter DENOUNCE Instrumental PLAY as obscene just before they define the PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH: Preach the Word by Reading the Word.

 
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Anonymous
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130.127.42.38

Re: Instruments

November 8 2012, 10:45 AM 

"David was a man after God's own heart: that means that God PICKED him to be the murderous oriental potentate AFTER they rejected God's rule over them."

For someone, anyone claiming to believe in God to come to that conclusion above.......needs lots of prayers.

Definitely can understand NOW why this man believes the way he does. His rationale has never been rational.


Donnie, B......don't do your Obama thing again and attack me (which you will) but explain Ken's quote.
How do you qualify the meaning that Ken espoused from the Scripture saying that "David was a man after God's own heart?"

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.62.214

Re: Instruments

November 8 2012, 12:28 PM 

So Dave will offer his crocodile prayers for Ken. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.68.69

Re: Instruments

November 8 2012, 2:23 PM 

Dave has not read the account of the Jacob-Cursed Levites (soothsayer) and the king which the ELDERS picked. Their pick was so ignorant that he thought that he had God in the Ark (box) and could not lose. The Philistines not being ignorant of such idolatrous objects were not superstitious and defeated Saul. God disqualified him by turning him into an effeminate, made prophesier.

1Samuel 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you;

God had abandoned the nation and the kings would win the battles without God--thank you very much. To keep the nation from being totally slaughtered before time to send them into captivity and death BECAUSE of musical idolatry, Dave's proof text means God HAND PICKED David as a Civil-Military leader as opposed to letting the ELDERS pick an effeminate (perverted when the prophets from the high places performed their prophesied MARK). All kings and priesthoods are always effeminate or they could not perform.

David wanted to build God a HOUSE which had not been commanded and in which God could not dwell. However, God would not let David construct this Capital of a Civil-Military, abandoned nation because of the BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. Maybe David like all of the "scholars" can ignore all recorded history and defend instruments because "David was a man after God's own heart."

GOD HAND PICKED David and the only justifying act as opposed to IN HIS EARLIER DAYS was that he was not an idolater.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 174.228.68.69 on Nov 8, 2012 2:25 PM


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.245.209

Re: Instruments

November 6 2012, 10:21 AM 

Darwinian says he doesn't speak for God, yet he believes that a harp in worship is the last of God's worries. Darwinian is saying that with all God does and has done, why would God care whether we use instruments in Christian worship? That philosophy is man-made, for it doesn't exist anywhere in the New Testament. So, Darwinian is speaking for God. Darwinian projects his own personal desire for instrumental music as the "voice of God."

Darwinian should simply follow the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command and apply it to Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16, in which we are told to sing and make melody in our hearts. Since we are not told to add any other kind of music, we should be satisfied with that. Those rebels who are not satisfied will continue to "kick against the pricks."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.252.144.68

Re: Instruments

November 6 2012, 11:18 AM 

They DO speak for God. They say that it is NOT true that God hates people who sow discord.

Proverbs 6:11 So shall thy poverty come
.....as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man
Proverbs 6:12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
Proverbs 6:13 He winketh with his eyes,
.....he speaketh with his feet,
.....he teacheth with his fingers;
Proverbs 6:14 Frowardness is in his heart,
.....he deviseth mischief continually;
.....he soweth discord.

Proverbs 6:15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly;
.....suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Proverbs 6:17
.....A proud look,
.....a lying tongue,
.....and hands that shed innocent blood,
Proverbs 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
.....feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Proverbs 6:19
.....A false witness that speaketh lies,
.....and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 6:20 My son, keep thy fathers commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
Proverbs 6:21 Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 174.252.144.68 on Nov 6, 2012 11:21 AM


 
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Richard Logan
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12.28.156.130

Re: Instruments

April 24 2017, 8:13 AM 

If you take the time to actually read Col 3:16 and Eph 5:19 they both say "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs..." Psalms meaning musical, stringed instruments.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Instruments

April 24 2017, 9:39 AM 

Richard, we have a strange forum: most would place your post on the last page. That makes it easier to find. I will add this to the last page.

Psalm has the same meaning as our "song": you can read it, recite it, sing it or sing it TO a STRINGED instrument. If you listen to Jewish traditional music one syllable of a song was sounded with the voice and then sustained with a single "singing" string.

If you read carefully Paul commanded that we SPEAK psalms, hymns or spiritual songs: all of these are in the BOOK of Psalms. Paul would understand the Hebrew Mizmor. There are 57 Mizmors and only 50 were to be sung by private individuals. None of the 50 NAME a musical instrument.

Psallo is never used to mean Play A Harp: Psallo just means pluck something with your fingers but never with a plektron like a guitar pick. Psallo could never be used of a wind or percussion instrument.

The Civil-Military-Clergy had been "turned over to worship the starry host" and no one but the priestood and Levites, the king or representatives of each tribe were permitted for Civil animal sacrifices which God did not command (Isaiah 1; Jeremiah 7)

The spiritual assembly began as the church in the wilderness and all civilians were quarantined to their very isolated settlements where they were permitted to Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word: Sabbath is Pauo and Greek and rest or refreshing included SKHOLE.


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Jason (Follower of Judah Smith) As a Spiritual Leader

February 21 2015, 3:58 PM 

Posted by "Guardian of the Old Path" (February 18 2015, 11:58 AM):
As for Jason - There seems to be limited information available...no website posting staff, leadership, beliefs, etc...Not sure how they have structured their leadership or what the makeup of their service is at this point. I would imagine it lends itself to community church stylings. However, the times I have driven by on Sunday mornings the parking lot continues to fill up. I spoke to one source saying their numbers have been in excess of 200 and reaching over 250 at times. I do know that there were not 200+ that left Madison to follow. So, if those numbers are accurate, this shows growth from somewhere. This doesn't surprise me. If you know anything about him while at Madison, he knows how to lead (even if it was not in the direction like or approved of by most, please don't misunderstand me in saying I agree with his doctrinal stances but that doesn't negate his ability to lead people, even if it's wrong) and his approach to both to the community will be one that makes the non church goer comfortable. We shall see where all this leads long term.


It appears that Jason's and Chris Lindsey's church website is "under construction." I click http://www.wellhousenorth.com/ and it shows as a "defaultsite" with a message: "This domain name has just been registered."

We've been discussing Jason as a Judah Smith follower. It appears that Jason is determined to be the leader of his group as he has identified himself as "Pastor" and "Minister." He seems to differentiate these as separate roles. If he is also other than the "minister," we can only assume that the group's makeup is that of a one-man-elder/pastor leadership; and that would mean Jason Shepherd is the "shepherd" of the group. (I was under the impression that he was defiant [not submissive to the elders] at the time of his resignation/dismissal.)

As a "natural" leader, it is possible that his following may not be so after the initial excitement over some new "development."

I would also attribute the seemingly successful campaign to his "Worship Minister," Chris Lindsey. If you link to: https://twitter.com/chrislindsey317 -- you will see:

(1) A display of Chris and his "worship" team performing -- something similar to what we witnessed on stage at Madison from week to week.

(2) This image:


B95utMsIMAAQ4vJ.jpg:large

All that to say how much more comfortable it is to be an "entertaining worship seeker" than a "truth seeker." There is a difference.

 
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Racnor
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108.230.196.85

Strange

March 6 2015, 10:43 AM 


CM Donnie. You ok? Time traveler?

The term clairvoyance (from French clair meaning "clear" and voyance meaning "vision") is used to refer to the ability to gain information about an object, person, location or physical event through means other than the known senses, i.e., a form of extrasensory perception. A person said to have the ability of clairvoyance is referred to as a clairvoyant ("one who sees clearly").

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 13 2012, 3:27 PM 

Thanks from ConcernedMembers for the information. (Due to circumstances, I'd been away from the Madison assemblies for most of the time in the last several months. But I was there on 6/10/12, this past Sunday. You submitted your information on 6/11/12 Monday following. Then, I realized that "creative worship" has just begun in the contemporary period. How so? Well, here's the "gradualism" factor at work when a major change is being implemented. There was a contemporary-charismatic "Christian" music piece titled "So Excited" that was performed on stage by a finger-snapping, microphone-holding female lead singer and the boys. Oh, yeah, the last song in the "worship" guide, perhaps considered as outside or after the "worship services.").

Well, "So Excited" as performed was "creative worship," alright!!! I did not expect that at all. But that wasn't the first time performances on stage of that nature were that well-executed. In fact, during Madison's "Easter Sunday Worship Services," there were quite a few of these exciting activities performed on stage.

Then and now!!! Then, there was the implementation of the "Praise Team" strategy in 2001 -- one primary reason that the congregation divided, and hundreds of members left. Assembly became divided between "traditional" (first) and "contemporary" (second). The "Praise Team" became a permanent feature, of course, with the contemporary division. The "traditional" group has been Praise Team-free -- perhaps by design until senior saints have died off. Now, a decade later, the Praise Team-free environment is no more. (CAUTION: the Praise Team system is not the only issue.)

Let's not forget the division in the eldership alone at the time. Several of them left their home congregation or resigned. There have been elders from those that remained who are no longer elders now. Elders select additional elders. (Perhaps, many members have lost track of all current "shepherds." We don't hear of "deacons" anymore. The church's website seems to be "under construction" constantly [maybe not], and no information about the "office of an elder" can be found. Or, do I simply not know where to find the list of the office holders?)

Now, the implementation of instrumental music is about to happen.

No doubt that the survey or solicitation of suggestions and "ideas" was geared towards this pre-determined goal -- implementation of the instrumental music system in "worship." It is characteristic of surverys such as this one that with Only one member suggesting IM, that should be enough support or proof to incorporate musical idolatry in the assembly.

The famed Keith Lancaster (from Acappella.org) as "Worship Leader" to replace Nick Boone was fired. Brent Whitworth (cf. thread: "Brent Whitworth, Where Are You Now?") replaced Keith. Then, George Pendergrass (from Acappella.org) was employed as "Worship Leader" early this year, replacing Brent. But I wonder where George has been in the last few weeks?

Once, the brotherhood knows about what Madison is doing to achieve its goal of increased membership by whatever means, I wonder if certain churches or elders of other congregations will be inquiring or writing to Madison's leaders about this "endeavor." I know, I know about congregational autonomy. But this is not an "autonomy" issue. This is a New Testament church issue!!!

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.22.141

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 13 2012, 4:25 PM 

Once church of Christ congregations get hooked into having praise teams that simulate denominational choirs, it's only a matter of time before they switch partly or completely from a cappella to instrumental music. And if they make this kind of doctrinal change, they'll be likely to make others in due course. For example, it wouldn't surprise me to see some church of Christ congregations adopting the Baptist doctrine that baptism is not essential for salvation, or the Catholic doctrine of infant baptism, and so forth. Such church of Christ congregations are willing to compromise their spiritual values to "appear like everybody else" and be "accepted" among the spiritually incompetent masses.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.81.111

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 13 2012, 5:37 PM 

Looks like their web page has gone silent about worship. However, I believe this will happen because it is predestinated marked first by the "worship team" which is a heresy and denying the very meaning of worship. If you "give attendance" to the virtual sexual performance rather than reading and teaching the Word of Christ this is a MARK of strong delusions so that you believe your own lie.

I am still shocked that only a handful of those INTENTIONALLY PURPOSIING to drive their church have had such little luck. I would say that with Madison if you believe the Enoch, Jude, Mount Sinai pattern, when you have fallen you will never get back up. The Devil will keep you dancing on a string and you cannot stop. I hope this is a run-up to galaxy polar shift in December.

http://www.piney.com/WinTertDeSpec.html

But Venus (Zoe,Lucifer) and Bacchus [Dionysus: Wineskin God] are close allies. These two evil spirits are in sworn confederacy with each other, as the patrons of drunkenness and lust. So the theatre of Venus is as well the house of Bacchus: for they properly gave the name of Liberalia also to other theatrical amusements-which besides being consecrated to Bacchus (as were the Dionysia of the Greeks), were instituted by him; and, without doubt, the performances of the theatre have the common patronage of these two deities.
.....That immodesty of gesture and attire
.....which so specially and
.....peculiarly characterizes the stage
.....are consecrated to them-the one deity wanton by her sex, the other by his drapery;
.....while its services of voice, and song, and lute, and pipe,
.....belong to Apollos, and Muses, and Minervas, and Mercuries.


It has long been out of their control: Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon is devoted to SUN WORSHIP and perverted music. He is the "having fallen star" who unleashed the locusts (muses) from the PIT to which their spirits were consigned until the end time. They are so frenzed because they know their time is short.

I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the Lord; and I will heal him. Isaiah 57:19

But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt. Isaiah 57:20

There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked. Isaiah 57:21






    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 166.248.81.111 on Jun 13, 2012 6:03 PM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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