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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.141.160

The PREDESTINATED Mark

June 25 2012, 2:23 PM 

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.115.196

Re: The PREDESTINATED Mark

June 25 2012, 4:04 PM 

Ken, have you been out in the sun too long? It is almost 100 degrees in HOHENWALD today. You need to pace yourself
and stay in the shade! [linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.141.160

Re: The PREDESTINATED Mark

June 25 2012, 4:18 PM 

Need to get back to bushogging but I keep praying for rain to remove my guilt complex for not hitting it. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe when it cools off.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.141.160

Cymbals, Psalteries and Harps 2 Chronicles 5

June 25 2012, 8:11 PM 

The expression "having cymbals and psalteries and harps" is not a pattern for Christian worship: it is defined as the worship of Apollo (abaddon, Apollyon) and Dionysus first outed at Mount Sinai. If God turned them over to worship the starry host, and scholars agree that the Jews worshipped the starry host on their way back to Babylon, why do you suppose that latter day elders fulfil the warning of Paul against wolves and violently impose the same patternism: Who knows? both the Shadow and any Bible student knows.

http://www.piney.com/Having.Cymbals.and.Psalteries.and.html


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.141.160

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision" Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps

June 25 2012, 11:02 PM 

1Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Dodona: ancient sanctuary of the chief Greek god, Zeus, in Epirus, Greece; the ceremonies held there had many remarkable and abnormal features. The earliest mention of it is in the Iliad (xvi, 234), where its priests are called the Selloi (or Helloi) and are described as "of unwashen feet, sleeping on the ground." The description suggests worshipers or servants of an earth goddess or of some chthonian power with whom they kept in continual contact, day and night. Homer (Odyssey, xiv, 327) was also the first to mention the oracle at Dodona. A tree (or trees) was reputed to give oracles, presumably through the rustling of its leaves and other sounds. Herodotus, but no earlier writer, mentions priestesses, whom he describes as the givers of the oracles, doubtless under some kind of inspiration from the god.

A further peculiarity of Dodona was the "bronze," a large gong set vibrating at every breeze by a scourge held in the hand of a figure standing over it;

the persistent ringing passed into a Greek proverbial phrase--Khalkos Dodones ("Brass of Dodona")-- for a continuous talker who has nothing to say.


 
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Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.123.95

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision" Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps

June 26 2012, 10:52 AM 

Donnie, first, I am not sure if it is a problem on my end or with the website, but for the past month, I have had extreme difficulty getting the site to load on my computer and it will not load at all anymore on my IPad or IPhone. I am not sure if anyone else is having this problem. Just thought I would let you know.

Mainly, I can tell you that the time lapse at Oak Hills between the elder announcement on their not being any prohibition on instruments in worship until the adoption of them in the worship service was about 4 years. Let me also say again that Max Lucado is a friend of mine, he has been in my house and I have been in his. He wrote the letter of recommendation for my son to get into ACU. That being said, I remember when this was all starting that Max stated that he had found that a soft harp or soft piano really helped encourage people to respond to the Gospel. That was what was envisioned when the topic was discussed at Oak Hills. Since that time, those things have progressed into a full rock band at all but one service which remains non-instrumental. If Madison follows the same course, the countdown has begun.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.81.58

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision" Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps

June 26 2012, 11:09 AM 

The top page at concerned members is down just now. However you can go to the other main threads:

Madison
http://www.network54.com/Forum/150389/

Other Church inputs
http://www.network54.com/Forum/187120/#list

Richland Hills
http://www.network54.com/Forum/177121/





 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.115.196

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision" Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps

June 26 2012, 11:44 AM 

Tom, I was having the same problem with the extreme load time on this site. I downloaded Google Chrome and it will load the site with no problems. However, I think it is a Network54 problem. I am sure Donnie can explain what is going on. happy.gif

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.211.16

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision" Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps

June 26 2012, 5:10 PM 

Tom, since I read primarily the Madison page here, I don't log onto www.ConcernedMembers.com, because it does take forever to load. I log onto http://www.network54.com/Forum/150389/, the Madison page. That takes only a few seconds to load.

The "time lapse" bit with implementing non-scriptural policies into congregations is the usual ploy of change agents. They are not about to come in with guns a-blazin' and implement instruments right off, for example, unless they want a full-scale war. The agents have to "soften up" the congregation and brainwash them, which takes lots of time. The change agents first introduce an a cappella praise team, which simulates the denominational choir. The congregation is led to believe that all is well, because there are (as yet) no instruments, but it's still a subtle move toward denominationalism. After a few years of that, the "soft piano and harp" come next to get the congregants into a "more worshipful mood." Perhaps the agents justify that with the philosophy of, "Oh, the occasional use of an instrument in a service here and there is not sinful; it's just being a bit 'different'." Once the congregation gets used to the "occasional" use of an instrument or two, the frequency and number of instruments gradually increase. The agents introduce instruments into one service on one Sunday a month, then two services, and so forth until eventually ALL services are polluted with instruments. All along, the congregation is gradually led to believe the lie that instruments are "not a salvation issue." Of course, the ultimate goal is to have a raucous rock band in ALL services with crashing drums and screecing guitars. The postmodern mindset considers such an abominable cacophony as "necessary" for worship today. How sad it all is.

 
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john watson smith
(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

step process

June 27 2012, 4:04 PM 

I too have witnessed the step by step change management program that many progressives follow. I note comments from the pulpit such as "your aunt Maude may have read the Bible every day but didn't know a thing about interpretation and detailed analysis of what it meant" This usually means that we now know more than previous generations and that some substantial "changes need to be made". Another bit of this same softening up routine is the comment that some of us think we "have all the answers". This is usually directed at those who have been taught and trained well over a period of years and see through the camouflage of post modern wisdom, which is in fact swill. This is usually made in connection with not teaching something the Lord plainly taught or not following a Bible based strategy on an issue.

Comments Welcome


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.78.78

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision": Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps

June 27 2012, 11:23 PM 

Madison has their "worship services" posted on a video site: I noticed that the younger kids are getting a huge back up of instrumental noise which makes them want to rock and roll.

1Thessalonians 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet,
and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;


From what I saw they were intentionally trying to drive the children into a state of excitement which is the laded burden: creating spiritual anxiety through religious rituals.

1Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved,
and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


When they begin to ADD you know that they are lying because it is only a matter of time before they have made long prayers (hymns) to steal your property and your souls.

This gives a lie to the claim that music and musicians can "lead you into the presence of God."

When they are forced to let the youth be the leaders and demand "music" it is because they are totally addicted and cannot, as Jesus pleaded, "Rest with me for one hour."

[linked image]

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

The "Boiling the Frog [Slowly]" Story

August 21 2012, 3:25 AM 

MCC-Torn posted on: June 28 2012, 8:49 AM

Donnie, a lot has happened that you may have not seen. Around new year's they announced that Brent had been let go because the elders had decided to go in a different direction. Maybe he didn't like the instrumental path but that's just me speculating. Or maybe they just wanted somebody famous like Keith again. Right after that, they announced that George was the interim worship leader. Then after about 2 or 3 months they made another announcement that George's time as interim leader was over. Then it was just a few weeks later that the new instrumental "vision" came down.

Yes, I missed a lot of the happenings and announcements in the early months of this year. I tried to figure out what really happened to Brent. I gather that Phil Barnes was influential in getting Brent employed by the elders as Brent was closely associated with one of Phil's sons in the music business. Do you recall when Brent and his musical band performed that Sunday afternoon [no, it wasn't a gospel tent meeting] in celebration of the "Vision 2000 Debt-Free" success story? Do you think the leadership wasn't ready at the time to start using Brent's IM abilities?

I believe Keith Lancaster was dismissed because he was controversial -- he introduced the very controversial (at the time) Baptist CHOIR in the church, a.k.a. the "Praise Team." Keith [still] owns the Acappella Ministries organization.

I was very certain that George Pendergrass would be here to stay -- he also was[?] associated with Keith's Acappella Ministries. But his employment with a company in downtown Nashville was considered a "conflict of interest" while he was Madison's "worship leader." [Not sure which employment came first.]

So, the instrumental vision has already begun in the Kidz Kingdom.

We need to refresh our memory -- have we heard of the "Boiling the Frog" story? It is about gradualism at work!!!

Yes, the "traditional" group now has a "Praise Team." The rah-rah-rah contemporary praise music is no longer that uncommon in the early assembly. Besides waiting on the seniors to "die off," that group is also under siege.

Just this past Sunday in the "contemporary" group, a video clip during the Lord's Supper was shown with words ("He was despised ... bruised ...") with instrumental music in the background.

Yes, gradualism at work. Unlike the turmoil over a decade ago, there will be no more announcements as: "Get over it; get used to it; we must move on [and go forward with our 'instrumental vision']."


 
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Gossip Is Sin
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: The "Boiling the Frog [Slowly]" Story

August 22 2012, 11:45 AM 

This is gossip, which is sin.

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.21.177

Re: The "Boiling the Frog [Slowly]" Story

August 23 2012, 8:21 AM 

If anyone exposes the unscriptural practices and doctrines of the change agents, they howl that doing so is "gossip and sin." But the change agents conveniently dismiss Romans 16:17:

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (KJV).


 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.111.190

Re: The "Boiling the Frog [Slowly]" Story

August 23 2012, 9:30 AM 

Is this going to be another 10 year event where no one bothers to talk with the elders? "B", you are a "dapper dan" kind of guy. Why don't you meet with the Madison elders and bring back some FACTS!

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.7.73

Re: The "Boiling the Frog [Slowly]" Story

August 23 2012, 5:45 PM 

It's already been advertised that Madison's instrumental music campaign has begun with the kids. You could say that was a FACT.

If change agents report that FACT, it is lauded as newsworthy; if CM reports that FACT, it is condemned as "gossip and sin."

DOUBLE STANDARD

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.111.190

Re: The "Boiling the Frog [Slowly]" Story

August 24 2012, 5:16 PM 

[linked image]

Just a little fun with "boiling the frog". Watch ALL of the video. happy.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBKz1wdK0M

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: The "Boiling the Frog [Slowly]" Story

August 23 2012, 8:22 AM 

To Gossip:

Ask how MCC-Torn, a member at Madison, feels about the transformation going on at the congregation. It may not be long when "Madison Church of Christ" drops His name. Is Madison Church in competition with the neighboring Cornerstone Church, a Community Church?

Why not write to the Christian Chronicle and continue to report what it has already reported: the Richland Hills Church of Christ [now "The Hills Church of Christ"] and the Oak Hills Church [formerly "of Christ"] doing the "instrumental" vision? The "Christian" Chronicle's "gossip" -- a sin [correct?] == has already "sinned" that many times, according to you.

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.23.35

Re: The "Boiling the Frog [Slowly]" Story

August 23 2012, 9:53 AM 

If outside media announce that a former church of Christ congregation has dropped the name "of Christ" and now engages in instrumental music or other unscriptural practices, the change agents laud that as "newsworthy." If, however, this CM site announces the same thing, the change agents condemn that as "gossip and sin."

Now I believe there's a name for that. Oh, yes. It's called a DOUBLE STANDARD.

 
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Gossip Is Sin
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: The "Boiling the Frog [Slowly]" Story

August 23 2012, 4:12 PM 

Reporting a church has dropped the name OF CHRIST from Church of Christ is not gossip but a fact whether by the Christian Chronicle or Concerned Members forum. The following section by Donnie is not reporting a fact but is gossip which is sin. Donnie shall continue a decade plus hobby of gossip under the cloak of Romans 16:17.



Do you think the leadership wasn't ready at the time to start using Brent's IM abilities?

I believe Keith Lancaster was dismissed because he was controversial -- he introduced the very controversial (at the time) Baptist CHOIR in the church, a.k.a. the "Praise Team." Keith [still] owns the Acappella Ministries organization.

I was very certain that George Pendergrass would be here to stay -- he also was[?] associated with Keith's Acappella Ministries. But his employment with a company in downtown Nashville was considered a "conflict of interest" while he was Madison's "worship leader." [Not sure which employment came first.]




 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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