Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: The Disciplling or Shepherding Dilema.

February 12 2016, 2:26 PM 

Could it be that the Progressives are allies of Evangelicals?

These terms, of course, need to be defined.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: The Disciplling or Shepherding Dilema.

February 12 2016, 4:06 PM 

The political pundits thinks that all Christians are evangelical or fundamentalists. Too bad.

I am not certain that there are too many groups out there that have become such hacks as the "infiltrated and diverted" colleges and universities. It is logical that the prophesied attack would go after groups that have defended the Bible on baptism and the almost universal connection of musical terms with enchantment or witchcraft.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

The Discipling Dilemma

February 29 2016, 12:36 AM 

Scripture,

That's a great question/comment: Could it be that the Progressives are allies of Evangelicals?

The term "evangelicals" is very popularly used in this year's political campaigns. Are the American "Roman" Catholics included in this group of voters? Or is this group comprised of mainly Protestants in the southern states?

This is worth comparing/contrasting: evangelicals vs. fundamentalists.

This is worth comparing/contrasting: progressives vs. traditionalists.

Overall, I'm inclined to think that progressives are allies of evangelicals.

Speaking of another topic, Scripture, I need your explanation as to what the "musical experiment" was all about at Madison. There was a musical performance, no doubt from my standpoint, that may or may not have been tried before. The soprano part was singing as a group, as well as the alto, the bass, and the tenor. All the sub-music parts were singing different words or verses -- I did not understand a single line of scriptural instruction from God's truth. I call it "speaking in tongues" -- the language confounded (Gen. 11). Did I miss something? What do you think?


 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: The Discipling Dilemma

February 29 2016, 8:29 AM 

The song to which you refer was the most confused and irregular that I have ever heard. It reminds me of how modern TV has everybody speaking at the same time. "Decently and good order" is not how this song would be described. I think the pulpit minister appeared to be put back if I can interpret his mannerisms.

It was an experiment "gone bad."

"Nothing but the blood" also left out "of Jesus." It's amazing how the traditional songs are mutilated. "What can wash away my sins. Nothing but the blood. Nothing but the blood."

It's like "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness.... Cornerstone, Christ alone. . . ." Changes in timing, mood, change of tune, etc. . . .

I'm sure many were appalled, or either laughing inside or perhaps mourning. . .

At least, he seems solidly a capella. . . .

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: The Discipling Dilemma

March 1 2016, 12:45 AM 

Yes, I just did look it up: "My hope is built ... Christ alone; cornerstone weak made strong." No, I did not play "Cornerstone" from the "Hillsong Live Lyrics."

Just like they say: "Contemporary praise has changed like crazy in the last decade." [I don't know which decade it's referring to.]

Not only are traditional songs [folded, stapled or] mutilated. Even the observance of the Lord's Supper is mutilated.

Nowadays "worship" seems to be 95% musical; all else is 5% it seems. History tells me that the New Testament church in the first century was 100% study of God's truth and remembering the Lord's sacrifice and death on the cross. Uh-oh, if my math is correct, that may leave and eliminate music at 0%.

Contemporary churches may need to do a lot of self-assessment. Perhaps use Acts 20 as the pattern for the assembly?

"[7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. [8] And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. [9] And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.

 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: The Discipling Dilemma

March 1 2016, 9:41 AM 

The fact that "nothing but the blood of Jesus" was changed to "Nothing but the blood" seems like an incidental change.

But. . . .

This does dethrone Jesus and makes one wonder if they are accepting more like a fully Judeo-Christian point of view.

Church members should watch change closely, because one never knows what changes are just incidental. . . .

A one-world tolerance that accepts the worship of God (and sacrifice) from whatever platform it comes. . . . Buddhist, Taoist, Confuscianist, Muslim, and whatever.

Notice "blood" can represent "sacrifice."

Christian colleges with their emphasis on morality, for example, are getting many students from varied conservative, but moral, religions.

 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: The Discipling Dilemma

February 29 2016, 9:10 AM 

I'll attempt to explain the difference in Evangelical and Fundamental points of view. And the Churches of Christ relative to them.

Evangelical is an adjective describing a wide category of Protestant practices, churches, and beliefs. The definition can vary widely, and evangelicalism does differ from Southern to non-Southern regions of the United States. Southern evangelicals are probably more pragmatic diverse than say those from Iowa. Notice that Ted Cruz did better among Iowa's Evangelicals than among South Carolina's. Evangelical churches generally believe in a new birth, the authority of the Bible, Holiness, activism, and preaching. Early famous people who expressed these qualities includes John Wesley and Billy Graham.

E. believe more or less in a conversion experience, that is not necessarily connected with Baptism. This is the divide between Churches of Christ and evangelicals, although in a general way COC's are evangelical with their emphasis on a new birth through baptism (and study) coupled with their belief in the Bible and preaching.

We can probably say that the "mainline Protestant" churches are not evangelical, including Episcopal, Presbyterian, Lutheran (except maybe not Missouri Synod), and disciples. These may believe more in rational, structured and church-centered, Christianity.

Fundamentalists can be separated from Evangelicals. Fundamentalists hang their hat on more rigid creedalism. The virgin birth, infallibility of Scripture, Resurrection, Total Depravity and the five stones of Calvinism, and Second Coming are considered most important from a doctrinal point of view. Doctrinal issues may be looked at as more important than preaching and getting new converts, in that some predestination advocates may actually believe that God chooses those to be converted, and preaching is not emphasized that much. But many Evangelicals can also be fundamentalists. Perhaps Primitive Baptists are more Fundamentalist than Evangelical. . . .

Churches of Christ are not your typical Protestants, nor Fundamentalists, nor Evangelicals, since they are skewed in their own direction. Issues of Godhead, modes of conversion, emphasis on internal church affairs as opposed to social activism, and such matters places them on a plain somewhere between Evangelicals, Catholics, Protestants, and Jews. Perhaps Batsell Barrett Baxter's "Neither Catholic, nor Protestant, nor Jewish" needs to be studied and updated by looking at our current situation. Someone could write a brochure showing the Churches of Christ and their relation to Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism. I would not outright call the Churches of Christ clearly Evangelical or Fundamental, since the adherents of either category would not consider COC's as their own.

I think the progressive Churches of Christ are more clearly affected by the Evangelical community than the traditional COC. It has become more traditionally creedal through the years. But I think it has lost its self-identity. An expression of this is probably the decline of its own church leaders and their influence, and the scarcity of books of its own members, and the fact that the membership are more likely to be reading outside their immediate fellowship.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: The Discipling Dilemma

March 1 2016, 12:54 AM 

Excellent!!! Thank you. We'll discuss more later if time permits.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

History of those who rose up to PLAY at Mount Sinai

March 14 2016, 7:38 PM 

Diodorus Siculus History Book I

7 As to the general mass of the Egyptians, they are instructed from their childhood by their fathers or kinsmen in the practices proper to each manner of life as previously described by us;19 but as for reading and writing, the Egyptians at large give their children only a superficial instruction in them, and not all do this, but for the most part only those who are engaged in the crafts.

In wrestling and music, however, it is not customary among them to receive any instruction at all;

.....for they hold that from the daily exercises in wrestling their young men will gain, not health, but a vigour that is only temporary and in fact quite dangerous,

.....while they consider music to be not only useless but even harmful, since it makes the spirits of the listeners effeminate.


And so says all history including the Spirit OF Christ in the prophets and the practice of the Levites.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

This Past 'Easter Sunday'

April 3 2016, 11:09 PM 

I will attempt to compile attendance stats through the end of June. Meanwhile here are stats worth noting based on the data from the weekly paper.

(I think I may have to resist referring to the weekly printed material that anyone picks up just prior to the assembly as "worship guide." The entire 4-page folded 8.5 X 11 sheet is [too] colorful except the 4th page which is devoted to "FAMILY MATTERS" and attendance and contributions records. An entire page (1st or 2nd) may be an artist's page about the "FALL FESTIVAL" [Halloween], "Pizza and PJ's with Santa," "LADIES CHRISTMAS PARTY TONIGHT," even "HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY."

The "worship guide" in the past listed the same program of songs and other events -- it was that way for decades ... when the congregation was united. There was also a page of the outlined sermon -- filling in the blanks was for those who were following the sermon and wanted to make notes.

When the distinction was made between "traditional" and "contemporary" worship [as announced by the elders] , so was worship programming separate. We'd notice the usual 5 "traditional" songs vs. as many as 13 "contemporary" songs between the 2 assemblies. Now, songs are not listed either way, perhaps by design, perhaps in order to focus the congregants' attention upon the "worship leader" and watch his "body" movements!!!)

Oops ... sorry:

There are mixed stats when it's a "combined worship" at Madison:

-- AUG 23 2015 = 743 (I believe there was a major announcement made: do not recall)
-- DEC 20 2015 = 916 (Christmas: combined 8:00 and 10:30 assemblies at 10:00)
-- MAR 27 2016 = 1197 (Easter Sunday: combined 8:00 and 10:30 assemblies at 10:00)
-- JUL 05 2015 - DEC 27 2015 = 894 was the average for the entire 26 weeks.


Surprisingly there was no drama (must have run out of different ways to present the resurrection event year after year, of resurrection materials, and of resurrection actors). Is "drama" dead? The leaders on stage were in their best behavior; there was no programmed handclapping; there was no applause until after the last song.

Scripture may make additional comments or correct misstatements. Would you provide info regarding the process of the eldership's appointment of Dr. Frank Scott becoming an elder?

From another thread, your statement is remarkable and true: "It is also obvious when we examine our worship hymns. They are usually devoid of moral teaching. In this way, the modern worship service is a "golden calf," with us admiring the gold, but we have a calf instead of a moral God."


 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: This Past 'Easter Sunday'

April 4 2016, 12:26 AM 

At the end of Jason's tenure, the elders quickly reverted to a more traditional format, since they were so rattled.

Not knowing which direction to go, they restored a previous elder, who to a large extent might be blamed for the previous years slow drift leftward. This restored balance for a time.

The congregation was also rattled. At this time Frank Scott returned, since this would give more balance.

Apparently, the gears are in neutral, and there must have been a demand to seek at least some new energy, so they placed Frank Scott's name up.

The church is still in perilous times, with the general trend downward, although this is not anyone's wish.

Placing Frank's name at least places something on the table, with some hope for desirable change.

It's ironic that the process may have come full circle, with change now moving perhaps in an opposite direction to the first decade and a half since year 2000.

"Concerned Members" may or may not have been influential in modifying events during this period of time, but at least you were correct in predicting and warning about the loss that would occur during this time period.

You have had every right to question the general direction of the changes, since opposition is more or less stifled in and around the eldership.


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: This Past 'Easter Sunday'

April 4 2016, 11:06 AM 

Scripture, the "progressive" meaning anti-Biblical seeds must have been planted by Lipscomb University abominating Middle Tennessee. The NACC has been instrumental in their new "church planting" unity movement which never went away but was launched again leading up to 100 years after 1906 when Churches of Christ simply said, NO we are not part of the Disciples-Christian denomination.

Is there any evidence that Lipscomb is propping Madison up?


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Apr 4, 2016 11:53 AM


 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: This Past 'Easter Sunday'

April 4 2016, 1:28 PM 

Historically, elders would hire Lipscomb personnel "as an inside job."

Good preachers, forget it, we hire only preachers recommended by Lipscomb.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: This Past 'Easter Sunday'

April 4 2016, 2:00 PM 

I retired in 1979 and we moved to Murfreesboro in 1980. One of the elders, John Harris, was a professor at Lipscomb. He boasted that they were getting rid of the old preachers (conservatives). John Mark Hicks says that he does not ignore the Bible but teaches "theology." That parses to "intellectual incest" since the new theologians use their own books to teach "theology." My God is not subject to any "ology" and this is such a dangerous and MARKING fact that the command and practice was to PREACH the word by reading the Word for comfort and doctrine. All such societies took care of their members but they did not fleece the widows in order to set up a SEEK AND SUPPORT those who will not work. LU in one of their Summer Celebrations focused on "Using your imagination" to understand and fill in the blanks.

Theolog-os A.one who discourses of the gods, of poets such as Hesiod and Orpheus [one of the sects silenced in Rome] Arist.Metaph.1000a9, cosmologists
“theologoi kai poiētai” [poet, singers you make yourself] of diviners and prophets, “th. kai manties” Philol.14; hoi Delphōn th

Theolog-eō ,
A.discourse on the gods and cosmology, Arist. Metaph.983b29; “peri tinōn”c.; Dia auton ton Phaethonta [Jupiter, son of Apollon] zōogonon theologousi call him Zeus z. Antig.Mir. 10b:—Pass., ta theologoumena discourses about the gods,, Suet. Aug.94; “treis hai Moirai theologountai” Theol.Ar.16.
2. refer to a divine influence, tous tokous


manti^s female witchcraft of Spiritual Formation. ho mantis mantin ekpraxas eme, of Apollo and Cassandra,
“ho Thrēxi m.” E.Hec.1267 (of Dionysus), That Thracian or Threskia as IMPURE religion. 2. metaph., presager, foreboder,
II. a kind of grasshopper, the praying mantis, Mantis religiosa, LOCUST Theoc.10.18,

Delphoi , ōn, hoi, A.Delphi, “Delphōn es piona dēmon sacrificial meat. [Paul cast out the Delphian spirit who used music ]




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Apr 4, 2016 2:10 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Dr. Peter Boghossian
(Login DrPeterBoghossian)
67.140.247.183

How does the Madison elders define faith?

May 21 2016, 1:31 PM 

What is Madison's vision of faith?

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Former 'Worship Leader' Revisits (and Notices[?] a BIG Surprise!)

June 18 2016, 4:55 AM 

(I would like to ask Scripture to help me with this post in greater detail. This is in regard to the "combined worship service" and all the activities on June 12, 2016 at 10:00AM.)

Keith Lancaster is Madison's former and first "Worship Leader" who introduced the culture-driven "Praise Team" concept to attract "worship seekers" and therefore "grow the church" numerically, contemporaneously and "charismatically." Numerous articles have been posted concerning Keith and the controversies and the adverse consequences (division in both the leadership and membership, etc.). Of course, his son Anthony Lancaster is the current "Worship Leader."

[Scripture, please feel free to fill in...]

We know about Madison's remarkable past and its commendable works and contributions to the community. Combined attendance in both 8:00 and 10:30 was in the 3000-range. During Keith's tenure and with the "culture-driven" changes implemented, we've seen the membership dwindling ... to about 2100 in 2001... to about ... (not able to check the average attendance when Keith left [?]). Now, attendance is in the 900s -- after the daughter church NorthField Church in Hendersonville became an independent Community Church and after Jason Shepherd's Well House Church separated and left.

What's Keith's reaction to those in attendance who were in the auditorium and to the 20+ folks in the balcony? When compared to the time when the balcony was full during either assembly in the past?

 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Former 'Worship Leader' Revisits (and Notices[?] a BIG Surprise!)

June 18 2016, 9:52 AM 

This is just one take on the congregation.

Madison continues to depend on celebrities to gather a crowd. This sparks the attendance for one or two services and people feel energized, but little is done to improve their Bible class program. Growth must start in the Bible School, but Madison is inverted where it tries to draw huge crowds but this does not trickle down into the young people's program. But the crowds are not huge, and it is rare to have more than 1100 on Sunday mornings.

The sad item is that the young largely left to go to the Wellhouse Church so there are far less young students to build the program on. The pulpit message doesn't do much to increase Biblical knowledge other than to be a Jesus-only platform focused on "relationships." No doctrine is found there and there are scattered references that make digs at the brother in the Churches of Christ. In other words, Madison still feels superior although it far from holding its own like some other churches.

The eldership has become a self-perpetuating board, with little new blood, and much dependence on worn-out new editions who don't have experience outside of Madison.

It tries to be relevant by making talks reference current events such as transgender temptations, which always come out on the conservative side, to their praise. But these talks come tantalizingly close to endorsing the very odd behavior that they ultimately shun.

This is a church that has gone into retirement.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Former 'Worship Leader' Revisits (and Notices[?] a BIG Surprise!)

June 21 2016, 2:39 AM 

Scripture,

As always ... thanks for your input.

The attendance during the combined assembly with Keith and his group as guests was 901. This was a combined assembly with the main auditorium not completely full and only about 20 in the balcony!!! Just where are the 2000+ missing attendants now? Was this shocking at all (or not) to the visiting Keith Lancaster?

In one of the earlier "What Happened at Madison This Week" threads, there's a record of the announcement made by the elders: "Get over it; we must move on...." The exodus is a long story. Now we see the adverse effects of the unwelcome, unnecessary and divisive culture-driven changes at that time that drove other elders and members away!!!

 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Former 'Worship Leader' Revisits (and Notices[?] a BIG Surprise!)

June 18 2016, 10:05 AM 

The key to a healthy church is this.

How do we maintain our historical identity and at the same time keep our young.

If we can solve this problem, we can go on and prosper.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Former 'Worship Leader' Revisits (and Notices[?] a BIG Surprise!)

June 18 2016, 10:50 AM 

In the words of that great angel of blight, Rick Atchley, WE sent our youth to hear great "christian" bands: we taught them to LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT."

Winterfest by Jeff Wailing was the HEAD beginning in about 1987 which is the birthday of his new fellowship--the NACC--when they hallucinated about the psallo word in 1887. Jeff was there with the Jubilee fathered by Steve Flatt and Rubel Shelly at the birthing in 1989.

So, Madison is the ROOT and when you badmouth YOUR MOVEMENT for several decades they NATURALLY flee. I believe that Madison may be Purpose Driven to collect the loose butterfly, soften up their manhood and the SHEDDING them like a viper getting a new appearance.

LU is the soil in which the "Serpent Seed" sprouted to go out and bear fruits.

 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 155 56 57 58 5960 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter