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dianna howell
(Login dianna01)
107.77.173.6

Do we really need a preacher

February 20 2017, 2:42 PM 

How about we get those prerecorded bibles, and just listen to the bible being read. We could use the screens to put the words being read which follows along with the recording. (Actually, what need do we really have of screens?) I've seen these recorded bibles go for under $100. Then an elder or deacon can explain any passages that needed to be explained. It would probably be a good idea for the members to once again read from just a single translation. (Nothing wrong with verifying passages with other translations). It would also help the families when they got home to discuss what was read during the meeting, since there wouldn't be verses taken out of context, and jumping all over the place. This would save a great deal of our resources to go and teach other nations. Perhaps we could invest in bible dictionaries and concordances for further bible study in the classrooms. There are many good resources that are free on the internet. We could also have classes during the week where people could get together and study history, archeology and other subjects that pertain to the bible. This could be offered free to anyone who wanted to participate. This could be done on Sunday also, then we wouldn't need to invest in class books. Another idea is a class to teach Greek or Hebrew languages. We perhaps need some English grammarians too. I know I need some brushing up in that subject. We would all be bible scholars before long, and would have an army of teachers of the Word!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Witches or Sorcerers often use light shows

February 20 2017, 2:27 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Witches or Sorcerers often use light shows

February 20 2017, 2:31 PM 

It is not given to them to be able to define CHURCH or WORSHIP so they worship themselves which is like watching your naked body in a mirror.

http://pixelflexled.com/house-of-worship/

The Tennessean article of March 8, titled "Churches combine ancient message, new technology," which appeared on the "Faith & Values" page, should shake discerning Christians to the core. In order to keep culturally relevant, many churches now feel it necessary to spend hundreds of thousands, even millions, of dollars to turn their sanctuaries into high-tech worship centers with what the article described as "the look and feel of performing arts centers." Apparently cutting-edge lighting, large video screens, state-of-the-art sound systems, and retro-hip Internet cafes and coffee bars have become essential to achieving a better "worship experience" today. The article also made references to churches that call themselves "Community Churches" as well as to Saddleback, Willow Creek, and other mega-churches that employ this "new" technology.

How sad that, instead of the Word of God, churches must employ the costly implements and worldly gimmicks of show business to attract people and keep them coming back to services. As the article noted, such technology is "not a luxury anymore; it's expected." Although churches are certainly free to worship in whatever manner they choose, one wonders where worshipers' priorities really lie. Focusing on Jesus and His simple message of salvation is still relevant, but apparently it is no longer all-sufficient.

Dr. William D. Crump

http://www.concernedmembers.com/editorials/secretconversion.htm

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/watchman-radio-hour/read/articles/are-our-modern-day-worship-services-pleasing-to-god-12272.html

Guidelines for Healthy Transition
Based on both my observation and my experience, I
believe that the following seven guidelines are vital to a healthy transition.

I. Church leaders, both official and unofficial, must have a desire for change or at least a common per- ception that change is necessary to achieve the church's purpose and mission.

2. A significant number within the congregation must also desire change. The larger this number, the easier and smoother the transition.

3. Church leaders must be both persistent and patient. It is quite possible for churches to achieve signifi- cant, positive results by taking small steps toward change. Conversely, it is easy to venture too far too fast and bring about disaster. It is unwise for any church to try to mimic exactly the specific steps and time line of another church. Every congregation has its own set of dynamics that will impact what, when, and how changes should be introduced.

4. The congregation must have members who are gifted-and willing to serve-in ways that will sup- port desired changes. To constructively integrate a praise team, for example, the congregation must have at least a few reasonably accomplished sing- ers.

5. Leaders must realize that they cannot "educate" the entire congregation into feeling good about poten- tial changes. They commonly assume, "We just need
to teach our people why these new things we're plan- ning to do are important, then they'll come on board"; in fact, those reluctant to change tend to bristle at that approach. On the other hand, when allowed to simply experience something a little dif- ferent, those members will often accept, and even enjoy, what is new.

6. To members who express concern, leaders must lovingly, confidently articulate the reasons for present changes. They must especially be prepared to affirm the congregation's commitment to bibli- cal authority.

7. Leaders must be emotionally prepared for the pos- sibility that at least a few members will not accept any changes in the assembly. At Lakewood, three couples left us at various points in our transition. Although the tender hearts of our shepherds were hurt, that hurt has been softened by the overall high morale within the congregation and the many who have come to us-and continue to come to us- because of our more contemporary, celebrative as- sembly.

If there are any tears on the way home from church these days, they are tears of joy. My wife and I would rather be with our Lakewood family on Sunday mornings than with any other group in the world. We praise God for filling our hearts, as well as those of many others in our congregation, with love and patience. With our contem- porary crisis largely behind us, we increasingly focus our energies and attention on our mission-reaching out to others with the saving message of Jesus. Thankfully, the changes in our assembly greatly complement that effort.
RALPH BECK serves the Lakewood Church of Christ in Lakewood, Colorado.


The Contemporary Crisis - Pepperdine Digital Commons

http://digitalcommons.pepperdine.edu/leaven/vol6/iss1/10by R Beck - ‎201


WATCH THE WHIZ KIDS ROCK AND ROLE

http://lakewoodchurchofchrist.com/





    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Feb 20, 2017 2:52 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Witches or Sorcerers often use light shows

February 20 2017, 3:47 PM 

Dianna has a good proposal on page 58. Why not give it a try and never hire STAFF not actively involved in teaching that which has been gaught.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Witches or Sorcerers often use light shows

February 20 2017, 6:42 PM 

The screen is so powerful and it demands full attention. I have noticed this when I listen to TV and opposed to radio. There are many other items that I can do while listening to radio, but not so while listening to TV. Studies have shown that the amount of TV listening is negatively related to educational achievement. It's not so clear as to why this is so. But the old adage "one picture is worth a thousand words" is true only in a partial way, but is certainly not the complete truth. The idea of the Bible is not pictorial but verbal, such as God chose through the foolishness of preaching to bring the message of the cross, or it is through the Word that the world is saved. This places emphasis on the message.

Of some concern is the meaning of the Ten Commandments, when the Israelites were warned not to make a graven image. Colors and graphics trigger the emotional side of the individual and can produce outcomes not build on rationality and logic. Logic may be more related to words whereas colors and visuals may trigger wilder emotions.

One can go to a church which does not have screens and observe that the worship is just as good and requires far less energy that the visual church. Teachers spend a lot of time preparing powerpoints and pictorials for overheads and films, and a staff may be required for its total execution. The average individual has so much screen time during the day, with TV as well as screens used in their workplaces, that many really enjoy some worship time where they are free from the screen.



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Witches or Sorcerers often use light shows

February 20 2017, 7:04 PM 

If not knowing prepositions and conjunctions was not enough, not knowing how legalistic they are must make the angels in heaven roll in the clouds?

In fact, the word LOGOS based on all of its use in Scripture, goes to the extreme to exclude everything but READ and SPEAK and LISTEN. Seeing all of the facial details of people and things in clouds makes us suspicious of the progressive who "see visions" and "Hear audible voices." Our brains cannot handle all of the overload and so takes a small part of what it sees and just fabricates a best fit. Rhetoricians, singers and musicians know how to turn mental tricks and that is why Jesus pointed to Isaiah 29 and Ezekiel 33 and called the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites. meaning ACTORS.

Both Jew and Gentile were wise to salvation because:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath [REST DAY] day.

And the Rulers were not:

Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the PROPHETS which are READ every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

And they STILL don't get it and DON'T get it 7 days a week if they have enough STAFF to keep you busy.

Eph. 2:20 And are built upon [EDUCATED BY] the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

In all of the letters the command is to READ the letters. Why would you hire someone to REFUTE or interpret the letter and say they don't count in this Jesus Only era?



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Feb 20, 2017 10:34 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Some People

February 21 2017, 12:36 AM 

Ken, do you reckon that I might be ignoring you....again...like for the last 10 years?
Do you get the hint?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Witches or Sorcerers often use light shows

March 4 2017, 6:20 PM 

Agreeing with all of the Bible and historic definitions of Christian Worship, John Knox said LONG BEFORE Campbell invented the Regulative Principle. If you read the New Testament, Scripture is defined as the Prophets and other prophecies concerning him. That is "fenced in" by the command of Jacob in Isaiah 49 NOT to attend the synagogues of Levi nor to ever enter into a covenant with them.

A Church of Christ is built upon or educated by the Prophets and Apostles since the Prophets spoke by the SPIRIT OF Christ as God breathed into HIS faithful prophets."

If you claim, attend and finance anyone claiming to have the authority to IMPOSE what they call "worship" to silence the Rest (Shiloh) and the School of Christ, then you blaspheme the Holy Spirit OF Christ.

"Whatever comes out of the brain of man in the religion of God, without His own express commandment, is idolatry.' (John Knox, The Works of John Knox, Vol. 3, p. 34). For Knox and the other reformers, one was not required to construct an image and bow down on hands and knees before it in order to be guilty of idolatry. No, Calvin, Knox, Gillespie, Rutherford, Owen, etc. understood idolatry to be anything that man constructs or invents by his own vain imagination, which is without God's positive sanction, and which is brought into the worship of God.

Church officers cannot legitimately bind the consciences of worshippers to perform any religious act, gesture, or ceremony that is not prescribed by God's Word because God alone is lord of the conscience. To do so without the authorization of God is to practice ecclesiastical tyranny.


Of the Jews and in a church near you:

Jer. 7:21 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer. 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying,Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jer. 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
Jer. 7:25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:
Jer. 7:26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.
Jer. 7:27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.
Jer. 7:28 But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: TRUTH IS PERISHED, and is cut off from their mouth.


All of the "progressives" say that God DID command the slaughter of innocent animals accompanied with the loud instruments COMMANDED BY DAVID (only) and that his "spirit" commands them to WALK IN THE PATHS OF THE JEWS--at a university near you.

Jer. 16:12 And ye have done worse than your fathers for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:
Jer. 18:12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.


blasphemy in Jeremiah 23 is:

Jer. 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Jer. 23:17 They say still unto them that despise [Latin BLASPHEME] me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.


AND THEY ALL SAY "YOU ARE A LIAR."

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Say What You Mean and Mean What You Say

March 4 2017, 7:00 PM 

Ken said "AND THEY ALL SAY "YOU ARE A LIAR.""

You be copping out when you say "THEY?"

What do YOU say?

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Say What You Mean and Mean What You Say

March 28 2017, 8:27 PM 

There are heavy rumours that Western Hills COC has added a musical band.

Members are flooding to neighbor noninstrumental churches.

This is in West Nashville.

 
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Richard Logan 12.28.156.130
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Say What You Mean and Mean What You Say

April 24 2017, 9:54 AM 

If you take the time to actually read Col 3:16 and Eph 5:19 they both say "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs..." Psalms meaning musical, stringed instruments.

Richard, we have a strange forum: most would place your post on the last page. That makes it easier to find. I will add this to the last page.

Psalm has the same meaning as our "song": you can read it, recite it, sing it or sing it TO a STRINGED instrument. If you listen to Jewish traditional music one syllable of a song was sounded with the voice and then sustained with a single "singing" string.

If you read carefully Paul commanded that we SPEAK psalms, hymns or spiritual songs: all of these are in the BOOK of Psalms. Paul would understand the Hebrew Mizmor. There are 57 Mizmors and only 50 were to be sung by private individuals. None of the 50 NAME a musical instrument. Neginah is used in the bad sense.

Psallo is never used to mean Play A Harp: Psallo just means pluck something with your fingers but never with a plektron like a guitar pick. Psallo could never be used of a wind or percussion instrument.

The Civil-Military-Clergy had been "turned over to worship the starry host" and no one but the priestood and Levites, the king or representatives of each tribe were permitted for Civil animal sacrifices which God did not command (Isaiah 1; Jeremiah 7)

The spiritual assembly began as the church in the wilderness and all civilians were quarantined to their very isolated settlements where they were permitted to Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word: Sabbath is Pauo and Greek and rest or refreshing included SKHOLE.

Paul understood that the Septuagint translators used PSAO type words to translate Mizmor because the word carries hostile and sexual connotations. Psallo and SOP have the same root meaning.

The tabulation of musical passages "contains a rather disproportionate number of metaphorical sentences, where music or its instruments are not to be understood literally but are used as similies or rhetorical figures. The most celebrated of these poetical passages is Paul's glorification of love in I Cor. 13." (Interpreter's Dict of the Bible, Music, p. 466).

Psalmos also appears in the LXX as equivalent to the Hebrew word neginah. This Hebrew term is used to describe a wide variety of songs. Neginah is translated by psalmos in Lam 3:14 (song), in Lam 5:14 (music) and in Ps 69:12 (song). It is striking to observe that in the LXX translation of Lam 3:14 and Ps 69:12, psalmos, or its verbal form, is used for songs that are not only uninspired but are in fact the product of the wicked, even drunkards, who mocked God and His word. The Hebrew term neginah is used elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures of: the songs of the wicked, Job 30:9 (song); the inspired praise of God, Psalm 61 title (Neginah-a song performed on a stringed instrument); and the uninspired praise of the Lord composed by King Hezekiah, Is 38:20 (my songs). International Standard Bible Encyclopedia


If you ODE and PSALLO In the Heart then you will not abrade my emotional health and many more might attend your assemblies.

It is impossible to SPEAK for education and SING at the same time so Paul commanded SPEAK.

[linked image]

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

On April 16, 2017: He Has Risen [Easter?]

May 1 2017, 1:43 AM 

The "worship guide" had it advertised as "April 16 Easter Sundy -- ONE SERVICE 10:00AM" along with "April 12 EASTER EGG HUNT" ... "Happy Easter" ... "Have a Blessed Easter" ... whatever! But that's from the "worship guide" -- which no longer lists the different songs between the traditional and contemporary assemblies. (These differences are referred to by change agents as "unity in diversity.")

Madison's "Easter Sunday" on April 16 was not of the typical "made for TV" program. Maybe Easter drama performances are no longer in vogue. I do not recall the word "Easter" even being mentioned. There was no handclapping; perhaps no hand-raising. (The audience was in its best "behavior.") It was a combined assembly; but it was at 10:00 -- the traditional members were "visiting." There were several songs, mainly contemporary. One was by Chris Tomlin, a Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) artist, "worship leader," and songwriter (has sold millions of records), a former staff member at Austin Stone Community Church, etc.

I would say that overall the Madison congregation is making attempts to appeal to its former conservative members [perhaps too late for that] and to not be an all-out progressive church.

The attendance in April:

. . . . . . April 02 ------ 840
. . . . . . April 09 ------ 916
. . . . . . April 16 ------1038
. . . . . . April 23 ------ 878


On April 23, there was one really scriptural song based on II Timothy 2:5.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

--- There is ONE God (the Father)
--- There is ONE mediator
--- There is ONE mediator between God (the Father) and MEN
--- The ONE mediator is the MAN Christ Jesus.

How simple is that truth? That was encouraging until later when the "Worship Leader" sang the non-Church-of-Chrsit version of "Holy, holy, holy ... God in Three Persons, Blessed Trinity."

Obviously, Madison's "Worship Leader" did not know the difference between II Timothy 2:5 and the Catholic-invented Trinity doctrine.

OK, we will not be discussing the Trinity doctrine here -- we have covered that subject matter in other threads.

I would like to ask Scripture to add his observations related to the "Easter Sunday" at Madison. [He always does an excellent job of providing additional info.]

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Can Anyone Donate a Casket Spray Concernedmembers?

May 1 2017, 8:39 AM 

Donnie,
I have to give you a shout out. This site is pretty close to dead, but you and Ken keep trying to give it CPR. I did like the part about the 'non-Church-of-Christ version of...."

It isn't about NOT discussing the Trinity doctrine or ANY doctrine. No one wants to discuss ANYTHING here.

You may need the defibrillator.


 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Can Anyone Donate a Casket Spray Concernedmembers?

May 1 2017, 11:04 AM 

The attendance data seem to indicate that the average attendance is now in the 800s, which may be a very gradual slide. Madison has finally realized that it cannot be the lead church of Christ in the area, and maintain an orientation in the progressive direction. For example, leadership of the Inner City Ministry is consistent with a central doctrinal position rather than with a progressive position. Morningstar also requires inter-congregational cooperation which they cannot get with a progressive stance.

Something of interest here is the importance of the "lads to leaders" inter-congregation "church of Christ" program where young people are taught how to lead the church. This leadership program teaches the traditional hymnbook with the contemporary songs largely omitted. It has been observed by many that it is the "boomers" who like the contemporary songs, with the millennials liking the traditional hymns.

There is not enough nutritive information in the shallow praise songs to hold a newer generation who are more value-centered and like to be curative to this broken world. After all the Bible says, "A child shall lead them." The millennials may yet save the church from the boomers.

It is revealing that some of the progressive churches are disbanding Bible classes, since knowledge is not their desire, and are emphasizing feeling and music in the worship. So any time they can cut classes for a time, they are quick to do it. This is common at Madison, where very little eldership and staff support is given to the teaching program, interpreted as individual teachers. These classes are cancelled for special Sundays such as Easter.

These viruses spreads from one congregation to another, but primarily from progressive congregation to progressive congregation, with the elders and teachers moving from one progressive to church to another. The more conservative churches of Christ have a buffer against these changes and migrations, and this is fortified by painful experiences that they have had with these "change agents." Many of these progressive agents are nestled with congregations in the area of Lipscomb University, including the Fourth Avenue Church of Christ in Franklin TN.

Thus, we have a clear divide in Tennessee between the Lipscomb-Instrumental Churches and the Gospel Advocate-Freed Hardeman positions. But even the Advocate-Hardeman churches are troubled by the Sunday singing issues.

Although Madison is perhaps seeking to cut its losses, it is the mother of two instrumental churches, one which has chopped its name to "Northfield Church" and another which is a "Wellhouse church." It had better be very quick on its feet, or it will not survive.




 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Can Anyone Donate a Casket Spray Concernedmembers?

May 1 2017, 11:24 AM 

I could offer up a hail Mary! Would that help. There is an old song "no turning back, no turning back." I believe that it is true. God does pretty severe pruning operations.

Maybe they should go to Pepperdine this year and learn how to do the Hieros Gamos. That will get you ready for Revelation 17-18

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Can Anyone Donate a Casket Spray Concernedmembers?

May 1 2017, 11:50 AM 

I remember the abuse that Ira Rice received by being "way out" doctrinally. But the philosophy teacher at Lipscomb, J.E. Choate, stated to me that "there was not a better friend to Lipscomb and the church than Ira Rice.' I remember that many were surprised by Bob Feller, who had been accused of being racist, was the first visitor at the hospital for the catcher for the old Brooklyn Dodgers Roy Campanella who was paralyzed by an auto accident.

Concerned Members has been warning Madison about the potential for a take-down, but Madison continued to coddle those who eventually bolted. The old friends of Madison, including those on this site, had been warning for years. It turns out that the coddled "friends" eventually reached full growth and decided to move "off campus." Who were the true friends? Now Madison has remaining the more conservative "true friends."

One lesson at Madison involved an interpretation of the Prodigal Son. Turns out, the speaker said, that the "older brother" represented the old people in the church, whom he said had this very self-righteous attitude. I would like to see how this younger man will treat his parents in their latter years.

A visitor from the North remarked, "why is there a church on every corner in Nashville?" My daughter replied, "This is the buckle of the Bible belt." When a group splinters off from a mother church, they must remembers that with all these churches, there are not enough members to fill them all up.

Nashville has stopped developing satellite cities, and now it is growing vertically with high rise apartment building, and micro lots. There is a numerous non-Southern population here, and for churches to growth they must take this situation into their plans.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

The Snake: been bitten three times: hurts but not fatal

May 1 2017, 2:06 PM 

With the know-how David Rhoades launced CM as a forum about 16 years ago: He talked a lot about the VIPER RACE. Vipers Bite to kill because that is what Vipers do. Scripture talks a lot about Vipers or snakes which figures in the Jewish Worship after God abandoned them. I began attending in Hohenwald in 1995 and after it was clear that the vipers had struck with a hidden agenda for my contributions to the "lord" I began Piney in 1997 and David Rhoades had a better idea for a concerned members which has at least sounded the warningg.

These people are OF the World the Kosmos or the Ecumenical and their kingdom is led by a Viper Race. They are infinitely more evil than people who just cut off your physical head:

DONALD TRUMP AND THE SNAKE something like the Wolf blaming the Lamb for muddying the stream.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-the-snake-biting-its-host-immigration-border-anti-immigration-police-a7710026.html

Is. 59:5 They hatch cockatrice’ eggs, and weave the spider’s web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
Matt. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Matt. 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Matt. 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Luke 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Acts 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.

Rom. 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
Rom. 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Can Anyone Donate...?

May 14 2017, 11:34 PM 

Scripture,

Thanks for your input.

You mentioned: "The attendance data seem to indicate that the average attendance is now in the 800s, which may be a very gradual slide."

For example, here's the latest:

. . . . . . April 02 ------ 840
. . . . . . April 09 ------ 916
. . . . . . April 16 ------1038
. . . . . . April 23 ------ 878
. . . . . . April 30 ------ 864
. . . . . . May 7 --------- 858


What may be the reason for the decline? It was in the mid-900s last year. Hopefully the last resignation of an elder has not been a factor. I'm sure that this trend is of great concern among the elders now. The "Senior Minister" should be very concerned about this still happening under his watch. After all, he was brought in to help "stop the bleeding."

Shouldn't any congregation cease to consider the administrative staff as [part of] the leadership team? Shouldn't the church return to being a school of Christ rather than being dominated by way-too-many extracurricular activites of fun and entertainment?

There's so much to learn from your expression: "There's not enough nutritive information in the shallow praise songs...."

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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