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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.45.167

Re: Consensus

June 29 2012, 10:30 PM 

Sorry, I thought you meant the "committees" were polling Church members for opinions on Church doctrine.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.124.224

Committees

June 29 2012, 10:32 PM 

I use "committee" in a general way to refer to several Christians meeting together to further Christ's work and the kingdom. I am not intending to suggest that formal committees in any way should "run" the church. But they should contain members with expertise in the goals of the committee, and thereby help provide solutions to problems beyond the grasp of elders.

The scriptural way to run the church is having the word of God to rule in every heart. God's word must be effective in the lives of church members. Many have relied on mere "church membership" with neglect on Christian living. More time should be spent in church edification. Scriptural exposition is largely absent from the church worship, with the exception of the reading short passages, and occasionally a member giving a very short talk in which a passage is briefly described and applied. Sermon material is normally short, and it is almost always topical, and passages are mentioned scattered all over the Bible, with very little attention to context. It would be good to scan a book of the New Testament about every quarter, with 15 to 20 verses expounded, by someone with Biblical depth. That person would understand the grand concepts of Christianity, as well as the context of the passage, its history and general setting. This way our audience could be more Biblically literate.

The installation of church "rulers" in congregations who are given the power of arbitrary decision-making is a poor substitute for implanting the word of God in every heart. Historically, relegating power to "officers" in the church has opened the way for erroneous teaching or forced division, and as a result church property is used to propagate error. As long as men with the greed for power and dominance are allowed the right to impose their decision on a congregation without respect to the conviction of others, division will continue to occur.

The care of souls cry out for a reconsideration of Biblical teaching on the church. Each one of us must ask "how can I help to bring this about."

More use of resources of church members (regardless of "office"), increased contact between elders and members, respect of each Christian as a fellow servant-leader, and greater congregational participation and influence--all of these can help give scriptural rule to the church of Jesus Christ.


 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.124.224

Unity on Word

June 29 2012, 10:42 PM 

Agreed. Ken. Agreed. Unity is based on His Word; on His Teaching. One who has the Spirit must reflect the Word, exactly. There is total unity between His Word and the Spirit. The test of a false spirit is whether it conforms to the Word!!! Good, Ken.

The office of the one who professes the spirit must agree with the Word. Elder or not. Christ has total authority. Man has NONE.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.136.199

Re: Popery and Domineering Behavior

June 29 2012, 4:49 PM 

Paul in Ephesians 4 defends the church inclusively and exclusively. The elders have violated all of those instructions.

http://www.piney.com/Ephesians.4.Unity.in.Diversity.html

Using female elders (word feeders, speakers with a tune) assuredly EXCLUDES lots of males and females since it proves an effort to sow discord. Sounds like they are still in a self-destruct mode. It gets pretty much like a cult when they push giving and go off in a corner and hatch up a bunch of new programs to make sure the lambs do not run out of anything to do. I have little doubt but that there is only one senior elder who cannot see that church is A School of Christ: it had no organized programs to which one must be shepherded into throughout the week as the fatal Social Gospel. Their intention is to break their back to prove that they can save themselves from being marginalized ,

They are listening to the missleaders and don't have the slightest notion that Scripture defines the role of the elder or pastor-teacher both inclusively. In Ezphesians 4 the pastor-teachers are gifted specifically to exclude or disfellowship The Cunning Craftsmen.

This is the wise or sophists TO WHOM God hides Himself. That would include what Christ alluded to by Jesus as Scribes and Pharisees: self-speakers, singers and instrument players.

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John Watson Smith
(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

Committees

July 1 2012, 5:42 PM 

I would like to add to the comments above that I have seen what happens to a congregation when elders become jealous of their "authority" and go off in a closet and make decisions. This situation is ripe for pressure groups to try to influence the preacher and certain elders to cause changes sourced from the traditions of men. It is all out of sight until the uncertain sounds start coming.

The truth and the way have nothing to fear from open and above the table actions.

Comments Welcome

 
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small b
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 2 2012, 1:37 AM 

"The test of a false spirit is whether it conforms to the Word!!!" When it comes to issues both sides will claim that their interpretation is backed by the Scriptures.

"No, what I say is supported by the Word of God."

Guess what the other side will say?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Conforming to the Word

July 2 2012, 4:38 AM 

Dave,

Your above post is confusing:

(1) In your first paragraph, you quoted someone. Whose quotation was it ... that you should give credit to? Hmm!!!

Of course, anyone will claim that his interpretation is correct -- that is common knowledge. But a "claim" is not the same as a "test" if Scripture supports the interpretation.

(2) In your second paragraph, who made that assertion (in quotation marks)? Or, did you quote yourself?

(3) That's easy. We know what the other side -- the change agents, the anti-church of Christ proponents -- will say.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.12.152

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 2 2012, 7:42 AM 

We know that the change agents and other scoffers (the "other side") do not fully believe the Word of God, so they will deny what Bible-believers say.

 
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Middle C
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 2 2012, 3:29 PM 

"But a "claim" is not the same as a "test" if Scripture supports the interpretation."

So, your interpretation meets the test but the ones who challenge you do not.....

'Houston, we have a problem'

Now, ain't that rich?

I know......they don't meet the test because they don't have the gift of interpretation, like you do. Yesssssssss, that's it. They don't have the gift of understanding like you do. If they would only pray more to have that understanding. More prayer, that is certainly the answer.




=========================

Your [Original] Name: "Middle C (Located in middle of piano)"

Now, that's almost as long as this one that I would not recommend:

"Member of the St. Francis National Evangelical Spiritual Baptist Faith Church."

Dave, your long identity occupies about half of the screen. So, it is being abbreviated. Anyway, either "Middle C" or "little b" is fine. Which one would you prefer?

Your writing style is still "Clemson, SC" style. Your post remains unedited, however.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jul 2, 2012 11:09 PM


 
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john watson smith
(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

Consider a idea from the book of Amos

July 4 2012, 10:55 AM 

In Amos is a very interesting and informative point about the nature of God and what he expects of his people and those who would speak for him.

Consider that God observes the faithfulness of his people and in Amos 6 pronounces a woe on those who are at ease in Zion. At the end of the chapter he then tells them he will raise up a nation against them. It should come as no surprise to those who claim to seek God that there will be serious issues among Christians and that these things should be settled by Gods word.

Consider Amos 7 where God states that he will stand on a wall with a plumb line - and measure the true straightness and fidelity of his people. Look who opposed Amos - someone with influence and closeness to the king. This should come with no surprise to us today. Further Amaziah makes malicious claims against Amos. It should not surprise the faithful when leaders make wild and false claims against the nature of God. What did Amos not do? He did not consult with men but delivered the message that God wanted directly and without apology.

What is the message to us - speak truthfully as God has described himself and his specifications for his church. God doesn't approve of innovation and the traditions of men. One can usually look and find the source of the current ideas is outside the Bible - and all tangled up with the pride and approval seeking of men. Those in influential positions will try to turn us away out of their hearing and sight! Opposition to the truth is a fact of Christian life!

Comments Welcome

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.134.86

That's what the highly Visable-Audible People are TASKED to do.

July 4 2012, 11:55 AM 

ECCLESIASTICUS The Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach was in the "original KJV version and they promised to put you in jail if you removed them. We don't have to believe that what Christ calls "the lying pen of the Scribes" especially about the Temple-State, but it is important to understand the views of the "preachers" who lived at that time and understood the meaning of words. Those who wrote "prose" were known to be ethical as opposed to the poets and myth-mongers.

http://www.piney.com/DocSirach.html

It's important to be able to tell the difference between or lives and the question "could you not tarry with me for one hour?" Isn't that the test.

[linked image]

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 4 2012, 5:02 PM 

"MCC-Torn" has responded since; and the thread "Madison's New (Instrumental 'Vision'" now reflects its authorship. Using "MCC-Torn" clearly indicates how the author truly feels about how far the Madison congregation has gone, ever so subtly and gradually, from "minor" changes to the ultimate -- a departure from the New Testament teachings of Christ and the apostles to being "carried about with divers and strange doctrines" (Heb. 13:9) and "Navigating the Winds of Change" (by change agent Lynn Anderson).

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.134.86

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 4 2012, 8:35 PM 

And they still do not have a clue to the meaning of Qahal, synagogue or ekklesia. I find it amazing that people pretend and hire themselves out as brain surgeons and do not know the meaning of "brain."

But the world has always been filled with great imposters: physicians, surgeons, university presidents or even president of a great country.

You can fool most of the people most of the time. And that's good enough because MANY are called but FEW (a puny number) are chosen to be the elect or added to the Church by Christ as STUDENTS who do not play music except in reform school.

 
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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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