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How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

June 11 2012 at 1:49 PM
  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 99.177.249.211

There's a post regarding "Madison's new (instrumental) 'vision'" pending approval. If approved now, it will show "Anonymous" as the author. (As you know, it is always awkward to be communicating with an "unknown" writer.)

Would you please resubmit your message with your "handle" or "pen name" or "stage name"? Or, you may respond below with the requested information, and we'll be glad to append your authorship to a very significant post.

Thanks!

ConcernedMembers


==============================

"MCC-Torn" has responded since; and the thread "Madison's New (Instrumental 'Vision'" now reflects its authorship. Using "MCC-Torn" clearly indicates how the author truly feels about how far the Madison congregation has gone, ever so subtly and gradually, from "minor" changes to the ultimate -- a departure from the New Testament teachings of Christ and the apostles to being "carried about with divers and strange doctrines" (Heb. 13:9) and "Navigating the Winds of Change" (by change agent Lynn Anderson).


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jul 4, 2012 5:00 PM
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jun 13, 2012 3:31 PM
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jun 12, 2012 2:14 PM


 
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AuthorReply
Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 12 2012, 4:58 PM 

Stage name is ok? Like that of "B?"

 
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(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 12 2012, 6:10 PM 

Hello, Annie Mouse!!! happy.gif

Your name is preferred -- the poster is bold and unashamed and not thin-skinned.

As you have found out, if the NAME is left blank, the forum editor automatically substitutes the word "Anonymous." But "Hello, Anonymous" is not a good way to address the poster, is it? It is so tempting to address "Anonymous" as "Annie Mouse." happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif

But if privacy is being protected for a reason, another option would be the LOGIN UserID -- one that the same poster uses consistently when posting other messages. I would limit it to 15 characters -- the reason being that the exact 50-character "handle" would display in the "Author" column. And that would not be scrolling-friendly. I would not advise anyone this authorship: "Member of the St. Francis National Evangelical Spiritual Baptist Faith Church."

Examples of IDs [other than real names] of posters whom we can address and with whom we can communicate:

-- MCC Member
-- Former MCC Member
-- MCC Informer
-- MCC Reporter
-- John's Info
-- Shocker
-- MCC Change
-- Pro-MCC Change
-- Anti-MCC Change
-- MCC Historian
-- etc., etc., etc.

At some point, this thread will be removed once the post has been approved. Or, this thread may be renamed to reflect its purpose, i.e., to encourage authorship of approved messages.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 12 2012, 10:29 PM 

annie mouse....I like that....got any more?

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.9.249

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 12 2012, 11:01 PM 

Try "A Ninny Moose."

 
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(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 12 2012, 11:05 PM 

I/we do too.

Problem is: We all have difficulty differentiating the Annie Mouses -- much worse than all the John Smiths and the John Does combined.

 
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(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 13 2012, 4:59 AM 

The new thread "Madison's New (Instrumental) 'Vision'" that is pending approval is "work in progress." It is major, a significant development!!! So, please be patient.

 
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(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"

June 13 2012, 5:38 AM 

The author's message comes from the Nashville/Madison address or location.

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.49.125

Why Is This Site So Slow?

June 13 2012, 4:28 PM 

[linked image]

Is it a Network54 issue or just me? happy.gif

 
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(Login mcc-torn)
174.50.253.151

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

June 28 2012, 8:17 AM 

I apologize for just now replying to this request. I went ahead and made a login like Donnie suggested but probably won't use it much. It is MCC-Torn because I am a Madison member of many years who is torn. I love our history and solid foundation but am sad for the direction we are heading. I have read this site for years without posting anything. But when a huge change like the new Madison vision had been out for a month with no discussion here, I decided to mention it. I thought maybe we were too far gone now for anyone to still care.

 
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(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.141.217

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

June 28 2012, 12:01 PM 

What date did they discuss the vision?

 
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(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.141.217

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

June 28 2012, 12:47 PM 

I found it and listened: I was really amazed when they claimed that the elders "asked God to CAST A VISION for this church."

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.210.223

Seeking a "Vision"

June 28 2012, 1:09 PM 

And God supposedly "responded" by telling the elders to GO BEYOND what He commanded in the New Testament about vocal music and ADD instruments.

To "ask God to cast a vision for [a] church" is about like the scribes and Pharisees who demanded a sign from Jesus. Asking a "vision" from God is the same as asking a "sign" from God.

"Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas" (Matt. 12:38-39 KJV).

A church that still needs or wants a "vision/sign" from God doesn't seem to be grounded in the New Testament Scriptures. Such a church apparently wants something worldly and exciting--like instruments--that will please the masses, keep them entertained, and keep them coming back. If the New Testament Scriptures can't keep the congregants spellbound, it's folly to believe that adding unscriptural instruments will enhance their "faith."



 
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(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.141.217

Re: Seeking a "Vision"

June 28 2012, 2:35 PM 

Good comments: I have just stolen it and added it to my first review after listening to their VISION (Hmm: the Egyptians spoke of a visual and oral orgasm"--just like the church lady at vineyard and the New Wineskins.

I will start a thread to get some attention: here is a first look at one of their proof-texts which pokes them in all the bad places.

http://www.piney.com/Buck.Dozier.Instrumental.Music.Madison.Church.Of.Christ.html



 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.124.224

Popery

June 28 2012, 6:50 PM 

Elders should have the integrity to admit that they are fallible, rather than claim that their decisions are endorsed in that they suggest that God has given HIS stamp of approval. It's the idea that they prayed and this is clearly what God has told them to do. What an unwarranted assumption! A Godly elder will not suffer a meltdown when he addresses an audience and becomes so supercharged that he brings up the idea that the church members are child-like. This reminds us of tyranny. It is not the kind of church endorsed by D. Lipscomb and the late 19th century leaders who clearly taught that elders (shepherds) were leaders and not kings. That behavior is more likely popery or divine right than about the service-leader about whom Jesus referred.

To disenfranchise the current members of the church, and all those through the years that have contributed to the health and spirituality of the church, is something that no qualified leader would do.

 
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(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.141.217

Re: Popery

June 28 2012, 9:19 PM 

Madison's drive into apostasy was momentarily slowed about 12 years ago (a common incubation period) when Tom Haddon let it slip that the para-church group with their own agenda really planned to turn THEIR church into a theater for holy entertainment. The diversion was something like this: "we gonna let them think that they are on a train to Louisville but we gonna switch their car and take them to Huntsville." Why? cause that's what we gonna do. There is no way to redeem such treachery.

Tom Haddon made that boast in the "church in exile" class and someone got a copy of the tape before the others could be destroyed. Concerned members was organized to let members have a voice when the elders (aka Buck Dozier) proposed a covenant where no one would question an elders unless it was a "salvation issue."

The elders claimed before God and the watching world that they had about 5,000 members (300 in jail) and only 50 had left. In fact, their devious plans had them left with about 3300 (300 in jail). After the Musical Worship Team, that dropped as I remember to about 1300 (300 still in jail) and it has never recovered.

Phil Barnes claims that he preaches to 2000 but somehow I doubt. Phil, too, believes that whatever comes into their mind is "The Holy Spirit" speaking to them and telling them to betray their trust. I doubt that history can present a more treacherous and discording event (considering the population).

It took Rick Atchley--one of the original band of discorders--about 12 years of careful groundwork before "a" spirit stopped him in the middle of a sermon and told him it was about time. Their claim of 6400 had dwindled down to about 4500 after the firing of the deacons and hiring ministers--male and female deaconesses. After instruments on Sunday that drastically dropped to about 3,500 members. That has been the pattern and if they needed instruments to GROW they could have doubled by NOT falling into apostasy.

Rick promised that instruments would never be added to the Sunday services but when that spirit spoke to him he responded to his charge of perfidity by claiming "that was then but this is now."

Madison's incubation has probably driven away most of the OWNERS and godly elders and by their pseudo-instrumental "worship team" has finally about warmed up the frogs but not just yet. Slowly, as Jubilee [a Madison co-apostasy) planned to "ignore the older generation and focus on the youth" letting the youth is noteworthy. That treachery would be more redeemable but the people with a NEW VISION have lied about each and every "proof text" hand fed to them by the NACC.

Is that wicked? Certainly, but when people are sent strong delusions their lying wonders are specificially a theatrical religious service. However, being delusional they cannot tell the difference. They will not repent: they cannot repent. There are lots of examples to prove that. The musical idolatry at Mount Sinai was not redeemable and God promised to destroy the guilty and the rest of the nation would be sent into Babylon.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.124.224

Popery and Domineering Behavior

June 29 2012, 12:54 AM 

1 Peter 5:1-5 examines the scriptural relationship between the "flock of God" and those who "exercise oversight", who are called "elders" and also "shepherds." Elders should be eager and willing to "shepherd" not for raw duty or for monetary gain, nor are they to domineering. Leadership is to be achieved primarily through "example", and this is the soft leadership of leading the way not through regal and compulsive power. Should this perfect leadership be achieved, then "when the chief Shepherd appears, [Christians] will receive the unfading crown of glory." Futhermore, younger are to respect the older, all should have humility toward one another, because "GOD OPPOSES THE PROUD BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE." We are to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God, who is the real power and authority.

A proper examination of leadership of the Shepherd is a great need in today's church. The shepherd precedes the flock and does not drive them from behind. Coercion is much more unpredictable than example. Honey draws more flies than vinegar. The elders are not our Board of Directors but those with insight about the teachings of Jesus Christ. With all respect, if the pulpit speaker on Sunday morning does not have a vision for the church but simply adopts the directives of the Board, it is a sign of some lack.

Disenfranchisement of church members is a sure way to get a dwindling congregation. Those with experience in church growth know that when church members are "empowered" with duties and obligations, there is likely to be church growth. But if the members feel that they are just the objects of decisions made in a closet, they will have little motivation. Especially, in regard to children, if the mothers feel that their children are the objects of propaganda from the highest levels of the church, there cannot be any spiritual growth.

Misanalysis of the causes of church decline can be fatal to the church. Remedies can turn into disasters. Situations where "shepherds" seem to be fleeing from church members is not a situation that is conducive to productive dialog. When elders feel that they need to flee from the church members, it is time for them to resign. Good churches set up committees to gather consensus, so organization is a great need. Every church member should be honored and listened to.

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.45.167

Re: Popery and Domineering Behavior

June 29 2012, 10:18 AM 

"Good churches set up committees to gather consensus, so organization is a great need."

**********************************************

Is that Biblical?

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.124.224

Consensus

June 29 2012, 9:32 PM 

Yes, consensus is a great need. The Bible calls it "unity."

 
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(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.136.199

Re: Consensus

June 29 2012, 9:59 PM 

And Jesus made unity depend absolutely upon His Word.

Jesus defined the Father as like the Thought, the breath was the spirit and the Son articulated the Word. Our lips--double-edged-swords--do not (among sane people) ever articulate something contrary to their mind or spirit.

Jesus denied that He spoke on His own and also denied that the Spirit would speak on its own. The Spirit would take the Son's Words and men like Peter "left us a memory" so we would not fall into being a false teacher.

The Unity then which existed between Father and Son is that the Son repeated only what He heard. The unity of church members can only happen when we have a concensus that we will follow the direct command and "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning." Now, that seems pretty easy to understand.

And why would anyone who grasps that God is God and they are not even have a tiny urge to go beyond that which is written.

People who think that they have anything to add to the Word of God simply cannot believe that God is Who He suggests that He is: the eternal Spirit or Mind of the whole universe Who is near us and does not need anyone to CALL HIM into His Temple (us).

The instrumental disunity always comes from one or two dominant "pastors" who has probably hand picked a friendly set of new elders and they are so awe struck that they do not have the APTness or courage to question the dominant leader.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.124.224

Unity on Word

June 29 2012, 10:42 PM 

Agreed. Ken. Agreed. Unity is based on His Word; on His Teaching. One who has the Spirit must reflect the Word, exactly. There is total unity between His Word and the Spirit. The test of a false spirit is whether it conforms to the Word!!! Good, Ken.

The office of the one who professes the spirit must agree with the Word. Elder or not. Christ has total authority. Man has NONE.

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.45.167

Re: Consensus

June 29 2012, 10:30 PM 

Sorry, I thought you meant the "committees" were polling Church members for opinions on Church doctrine.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.124.224

Committees

June 29 2012, 10:32 PM 

I use "committee" in a general way to refer to several Christians meeting together to further Christ's work and the kingdom. I am not intending to suggest that formal committees in any way should "run" the church. But they should contain members with expertise in the goals of the committee, and thereby help provide solutions to problems beyond the grasp of elders.

The scriptural way to run the church is having the word of God to rule in every heart. God's word must be effective in the lives of church members. Many have relied on mere "church membership" with neglect on Christian living. More time should be spent in church edification. Scriptural exposition is largely absent from the church worship, with the exception of the reading short passages, and occasionally a member giving a very short talk in which a passage is briefly described and applied. Sermon material is normally short, and it is almost always topical, and passages are mentioned scattered all over the Bible, with very little attention to context. It would be good to scan a book of the New Testament about every quarter, with 15 to 20 verses expounded, by someone with Biblical depth. That person would understand the grand concepts of Christianity, as well as the context of the passage, its history and general setting. This way our audience could be more Biblically literate.

The installation of church "rulers" in congregations who are given the power of arbitrary decision-making is a poor substitute for implanting the word of God in every heart. Historically, relegating power to "officers" in the church has opened the way for erroneous teaching or forced division, and as a result church property is used to propagate error. As long as men with the greed for power and dominance are allowed the right to impose their decision on a congregation without respect to the conviction of others, division will continue to occur.

The care of souls cry out for a reconsideration of Biblical teaching on the church. Each one of us must ask "how can I help to bring this about."

More use of resources of church members (regardless of "office"), increased contact between elders and members, respect of each Christian as a fellow servant-leader, and greater congregational participation and influence--all of these can help give scriptural rule to the church of Jesus Christ.


 
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(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.136.199

Re: Popery and Domineering Behavior

June 29 2012, 4:49 PM 

Paul in Ephesians 4 defends the church inclusively and exclusively. The elders have violated all of those instructions.

http://www.piney.com/Ephesians.4.Unity.in.Diversity.html

Using female elders (word feeders, speakers with a tune) assuredly EXCLUDES lots of males and females since it proves an effort to sow discord. Sounds like they are still in a self-destruct mode. It gets pretty much like a cult when they push giving and go off in a corner and hatch up a bunch of new programs to make sure the lambs do not run out of anything to do. I have little doubt but that there is only one senior elder who cannot see that church is A School of Christ: it had no organized programs to which one must be shepherded into throughout the week as the fatal Social Gospel. Their intention is to break their back to prove that they can save themselves from being marginalized ,

They are listening to the missleaders and don't have the slightest notion that Scripture defines the role of the elder or pastor-teacher both inclusively. In Ezphesians 4 the pastor-teachers are gifted specifically to exclude or disfellowship The Cunning Craftsmen.

This is the wise or sophists TO WHOM God hides Himself. That would include what Christ alluded to by Jesus as Scribes and Pharisees: self-speakers, singers and instrument players.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

Committees

July 1 2012, 5:42 PM 

I would like to add to the comments above that I have seen what happens to a congregation when elders become jealous of their "authority" and go off in a closet and make decisions. This situation is ripe for pressure groups to try to influence the preacher and certain elders to cause changes sourced from the traditions of men. It is all out of sight until the uncertain sounds start coming.

The truth and the way have nothing to fear from open and above the table actions.

Comments Welcome

 
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small b
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 2 2012, 1:37 AM 

"The test of a false spirit is whether it conforms to the Word!!!" When it comes to issues both sides will claim that their interpretation is backed by the Scriptures.

"No, what I say is supported by the Word of God."

Guess what the other side will say?

 
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(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Conforming to the Word

July 2 2012, 4:38 AM 

Dave,

Your above post is confusing:

(1) In your first paragraph, you quoted someone. Whose quotation was it ... that you should give credit to? Hmm!!!

Of course, anyone will claim that his interpretation is correct -- that is common knowledge. But a "claim" is not the same as a "test" if Scripture supports the interpretation.

(2) In your second paragraph, who made that assertion (in quotation marks)? Or, did you quote yourself?

(3) That's easy. We know what the other side -- the change agents, the anti-church of Christ proponents -- will say.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.12.152

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 2 2012, 7:42 AM 

We know that the change agents and other scoffers (the "other side") do not fully believe the Word of God, so they will deny what Bible-believers say.

 
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Middle C
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 2 2012, 3:29 PM 

"But a "claim" is not the same as a "test" if Scripture supports the interpretation."

So, your interpretation meets the test but the ones who challenge you do not.....

'Houston, we have a problem'

Now, ain't that rich?

I know......they don't meet the test because they don't have the gift of interpretation, like you do. Yesssssssss, that's it. They don't have the gift of understanding like you do. If they would only pray more to have that understanding. More prayer, that is certainly the answer.




=========================

Your [Original] Name: "Middle C (Located in middle of piano)"

Now, that's almost as long as this one that I would not recommend:

"Member of the St. Francis National Evangelical Spiritual Baptist Faith Church."

Dave, your long identity occupies about half of the screen. So, it is being abbreviated. Anyway, either "Middle C" or "little b" is fine. Which one would you prefer?

Your writing style is still "Clemson, SC" style. Your post remains unedited, however.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jul 2, 2012 11:09 PM


 
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(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

Consider a idea from the book of Amos

July 4 2012, 10:55 AM 

In Amos is a very interesting and informative point about the nature of God and what he expects of his people and those who would speak for him.

Consider that God observes the faithfulness of his people and in Amos 6 pronounces a woe on those who are at ease in Zion. At the end of the chapter he then tells them he will raise up a nation against them. It should come as no surprise to those who claim to seek God that there will be serious issues among Christians and that these things should be settled by Gods word.

Consider Amos 7 where God states that he will stand on a wall with a plumb line - and measure the true straightness and fidelity of his people. Look who opposed Amos - someone with influence and closeness to the king. This should come with no surprise to us today. Further Amaziah makes malicious claims against Amos. It should not surprise the faithful when leaders make wild and false claims against the nature of God. What did Amos not do? He did not consult with men but delivered the message that God wanted directly and without apology.

What is the message to us - speak truthfully as God has described himself and his specifications for his church. God doesn't approve of innovation and the traditions of men. One can usually look and find the source of the current ideas is outside the Bible - and all tangled up with the pride and approval seeking of men. Those in influential positions will try to turn us away out of their hearing and sight! Opposition to the truth is a fact of Christian life!

Comments Welcome

 
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(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.134.86

That's what the highly Visable-Audible People are TASKED to do.

July 4 2012, 11:55 AM 

ECCLESIASTICUS The Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach was in the "original KJV version and they promised to put you in jail if you removed them. We don't have to believe that what Christ calls "the lying pen of the Scribes" especially about the Temple-State, but it is important to understand the views of the "preachers" who lived at that time and understood the meaning of words. Those who wrote "prose" were known to be ethical as opposed to the poets and myth-mongers.

http://www.piney.com/DocSirach.html

It's important to be able to tell the difference between or lives and the question "could you not tarry with me for one hour?" Isn't that the test.

[linked image]

 
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(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 4 2012, 5:02 PM 

"MCC-Torn" has responded since; and the thread "Madison's New (Instrumental 'Vision'" now reflects its authorship. Using "MCC-Torn" clearly indicates how the author truly feels about how far the Madison congregation has gone, ever so subtly and gradually, from "minor" changes to the ultimate -- a departure from the New Testament teachings of Christ and the apostles to being "carried about with divers and strange doctrines" (Heb. 13:9) and "Navigating the Winds of Change" (by change agent Lynn Anderson).

 
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(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.134.86

Re: How to Log in and Post and Avoid Anonymity

July 4 2012, 8:35 PM 

And they still do not have a clue to the meaning of Qahal, synagogue or ekklesia. I find it amazing that people pretend and hire themselves out as brain surgeons and do not know the meaning of "brain."

But the world has always been filled with great imposters: physicians, surgeons, university presidents or even president of a great country.

You can fool most of the people most of the time. And that's good enough because MANY are called but FEW (a puny number) are chosen to be the elect or added to the Church by Christ as STUDENTS who do not play music except in reform school.

 
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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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