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john watson smith
(no login)
72.209.196.118

Wineskins and other like websites show forth

June 22 2012, 5:48 PM 

I am reminded of the supreme importance of a critical review of everything you hear and see - as measured and drawn by the scriptures. See the Spirits comment in Acts 17 about receiving and using the word to evaluate teachings. Further see the repeated statements in Psalms 1 and 119 using the term "meditate" on precepts, statutes, word and testimonies contained therein. Further it is said to be an activity to be done "day and night" . The writer of Psalms said "oh how Love I thy law - it is my meditation all the day". Where do we find the evidence of this attitude and behavior today? On these post modern websites?

Consider that the effectiveness of these sites and the emergence of associated ideas is due to the superficial knowledge of the scriptures and the timidity, fearfulness and narrowness of many in the pulpit. To many Bible concepts have been avoided because someone might be offended! TImidity and fearfulness on the part of those who know better is in my opinion a major complicit factor in the present apostasy led by these websites.

Another factor is the selfishness of many christians in living life. Undue attention given to careers and to much time given to things that are seen rather than the unseen. And no-one called our hand on it! Our leaders were busy protecting our image with the misguided and ignorant!

These websites give false credit to error. In Mark 12 Jesus is asked a question and his response was that we are to love God with all of our being - one of the attributes of that directive is that we will pay first and foremost attention to the desires and reality that God has set before us. We pay far to much attention to what detractors say! Christianity is not a beauty contest for teachers of false doctrine and scoffers, critics and sinners!

Finally these websites show by observation that this is a deliberate organized effort to fundamentally change what we believe and practice without every really discussing it openly. In Acts 26 a method of teaching "this was not done in a corner" is cited by Paul. But the current apostasy indicates to me some planning and promotion "under the table". Indicators are like vocabulary, similar reasoning concerning existing doctrines, how Bible students in the pew are treated, the "bob and weave" teaching/preaching method and Bible version "emotions". Many persons have spouted these post modern ideas on these web sites and much of what they say is remarkably similar.

Let us all remember the command - Be thou faithful unto death and I will give thee a crown of life - Rev 2

Comments Welcome

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.82.164

Re: Wineskins and other like websites show forth

June 22 2012, 11:01 PM 

I am reminded of the supreme importance of a critical review of everything you hear and see - as measured and drawn by the scriptures. See the Spirits comment in Acts 17 about receiving and using the word to evaluate teachings. Further see the repeated statements in Psalms 1 and 119 using the term "meditate" on precepts, statutes, word and testimonies contained therein. Further it is said to be an activity to be done "day and night" . The writer of Psalms said "oh how Love I thy law - it is my meditation all the day". Where do we find the evidence of this attitude and behavior today? On these post modern websites?

They really tell you as for instance, Lipscomb and other once-Christian colleges) that they are POST MODERN. That means that evolution and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle means that there is no objective truth. They believe in narrative theology and that you are free to take the few, rare "fragments" in the Bible and write themselves in as a greater-than Moses or a Greater-than Jesus for THEIR changed culture. That is why quoting Scripture to them is judgmental and evil. Because they have been pushed into the "strong delusional" state by Christ Himself, the MARKS of "lying wonders" are the religious "observation" marked by all of the performing arts and crafts. That also marks them as effete and not fit for the kingdom of God.

Consider that the effectiveness of these sites and the emergence of associated ideas is due to the superficial knowledge of the scriptures and the timidity, fearfulness and narrowness of many in the pulpit. To many Bible concepts have been avoided because someone might be offended! TImidity and fearfulness on the part of those who know better is in my opinion a major complicit factor in the present apostasy led by these websites.

I remember a "scholar" preacher spawned by LU who boasted that he had convinced preachers to NEVER preach against instruments again. He knew that if he did he would be black-listed and would never sell that book or CD. This intimidation or psychological violence is still used: Al Maxey has all of the RACA words to try to strong arm his disciples to never question any one's imposing instruments. The brothers of Jesus tempted Him to go up to the opening rituals of the FOT and surely he could work some tricks and take the prize.

Another factor is the selfishness of many christians in living life. Undue attention given to careers and to much time given to things that are seen rather than the unseen. And no-one called our hand on it! Our leaders were busy protecting our image with the misguided and ignorant!

Because their mentors "trained your children to leave our movement" (Ritchley), the younger preachers lean how to walk like a quack in the hopes that they can get rich and famous. You just have to go into the lion's (liars) den and never let them bluff you. They are school yard bullies but if you call their hand they will--by previous agreement--never respond. It is a fact that a faithful preacher of the Word will never, can never, get rich and famous. Jesus left that as our way of escape from the parasites who will DO ANYTHING to keep their fame and fortune.

These websites give false credit to error. In Mark 12 Jesus is asked a question and his response was that we are to love God with all of our being - one of the attributes of that directive is that we will pay first and foremost attention to the desires and reality that God has set before us. We pay far to much attention to what detractors say! Christianity is not a beauty contest for teachers of false doctrine and scoffers, critics and sinners!

They will do anything to violate the command to do all in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ: they have convinced their prey that when they speak it is the Spirit teaching them beyond the sacred pages. If you tell people that you ARE the Messiah enough will believe you to keep you out of the mission field.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is,
.....Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth:
.....for there is one God; and there is none other but he:


Finally these websites show by observation that this is a deliberate organized effort to fundamentally change what we believe and practice without every really discussing it openly. In Acts 26 a method of teaching "this was not done in a corner" is cited by Paul. But the current apostasy indicates to me some planning and promotion "under the table". Indicators are like vocabulary, similar reasoning concerning existing doctrines, how Bible students in the pew are treated, the "bob and weave" teaching/preaching method and Bible version "emotions". Many persons have spouted these post modern ideas on these web sites and much of what they say is remarkably similar.

That's why they were and are called parasites:

Jeremiah 23:20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed,
.....and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart:
.....in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.
Jeremiah 23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran:
.....I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
Jeremiah 23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel,
.....and had caused my people to hear my words,
.....then they should have turned them from their evil way,
.....and from the evil of their doings.
Jeremiah 23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?
Jeremiah 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD.
.....Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name,
.....saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
Jeremiah 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies?
.....yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
Jeremiah 23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name
.....by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour,
.....as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.

They deliberately violate the direct warning and try to "ascend" to God or call Christ down and forget that the word is near them, in His Word. That's fine: it's all laid out for us so we don't play in their own droolings.

Scripture tells us to REBUKE which is to ridicule them and tell the world that the kings / queens have no clothes.

 
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john watson smith
(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

Wineskins and other like websites show forth

June 23 2012, 3:50 PM 

Thanks for the comments

Your comment regarding psychological violence is a keyword to a practice by many who seek to change and destroy the Lords church today. I have personally witnessed or faced a number of verbal attacks, threats and attempted intimidations because I would not cow to the latest fad or opinion. I got a phone call one day from a church member who ranted and raved about the consequences of divorce via my "King James mindset" (that is either death or adultery and no other reason). This particular individual was observed going around to other members and trying to intimidate them also. He was not the chief change agent however but was used by the change agents to do their dirty work. They were quire adept in that congregation at using the short tempered and those without firm roots to create strife and discord. The strife and discord is then blamed on those who oppose their agenda. I think this has been a tactic of satan for decades. Those that use it serve satan not Christ.

These episodes helped me greatly to understand the words of Christ in Matt 23 when he reamed out the religious leaders of the day. Outward the appearance is sparkling clean while on the inside which God sees plainly they are full of dead bones and hypocrisy. Not everyone is such but those who are in it for control, money and fame are prime candidates for this categorization. What a display of the sword of the spirit revealing the truth about mens true character!

Comments Welcome

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.84.225

Re: Wineskins and other like websites show forth

June 23 2012, 4:35 PM 

Divorce is always tragic but it happens. In attacking those who just quote the text, they make a strong effort to actually encourage people who are not happy to get a devorced.

I remember a sermon telling a young singing artist that she deserved to be happy: jiffy quick she announced to her husband that she didn't love him any more and she married another famous artist. They have to accept their part in endorsing the world's view of marriage and the breakdown of family life for which they now hire A Family Life Minister. Isn't that precious?

The anxiety or madness seems to attach to all turns of a millennium: I have collected (somewhere) some good notes that the stress becomes too great and people actually begin preaching and practicing the "sacredness of sin." There is a deliberate flaunting of morality and the Bible as some kind of "group mentality" (in the words of Shelly).

 
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john watson smith
(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

Wineskins and other like websites show forth

June 25 2012, 4:22 PM 

Further thoughts on current crop of websites

Gods promises are certain - not nebulous or indefinite. Gods judgement of sin is certain and not indefinite. What kind of religion is it that does not raise awareness of the worlds influence and appeal of sin? Where is the warning of sin?
Where is the consistent and steady treatment of the truth verses the promotion of the latest program or idea from men?
See James 1, Matt 5 and II Pet 3.

According to Matt 25 and John 5 we know not the hour of the end of time. Does not that make teaching the truth urgent, essential and priority one? Were is this in the current crop of websites?

Consider the statements in Prov 22 and 27 about the simple. Yet the Lord makes us wise Psalm 19! If we only have the meandering of mens opinions and traditions where do we stand?

Consider the warning in II Pet 2 that false leaders will speak evil of the true way

Comments Welcome





 
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Anonymous
(no login)
216.67.70.203

Re: Al Maxey Immersed by one Spirit

June 30 2012, 4:06 AM 

He has a case of PreacherGesis: he just makes up definitions of words and never looks at the definition of words or the connection with Revelation 15 with the "Song of Moses."

Kinda like someone else we know, eh, Ken? You make stuff up all the time. Unlike you, however, Al knows when to admit he is mistaken.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.139.163

Vacation over?

June 30 2012, 12:50 PM 

I noted that this was the SONG OF MOSES: God had Moses place the song--which he RECITED--into the Ark or side of the Ark: When they SANG this Song it would be a supernatural sign that JUDGMENT DAY is very close. They have already made the SIGN proving that they have DISSOLVED the Ekklesia marked as A school (only) of Christ (only): even the most foolish will have no impulse to make noise when Jesus promises to speak through the elders when they "teach that which has been taught." The MARK of the Wolves among elders are when they make a place in the mainstream for boy lovers.

I warned you about the Babylon Mother of harlots has Abaddon or Apollyon UNLEASH the LOCUSTS from the Smokey pit (Wine colored). Paul attended synagogue rather than a "theater for holy entertainment" to enthuse with the "holy bartender" also including the "holy whore (sounds of grinders)". The priests (preachers) of the holy harlot would be "lusted after fruits" names as crafty craftsmen, singers and instrument players." John and all of history identified religious musicians as SORCERERS who manufacture the drug of endorphins to make you think your pleasure parts is a "spirit" knowing you sexually (Vineyard, wineskins).

When the SOUNDS LIKE or literal instruments a heard "up in the air" (not a spiritual place) is is a sign that Jesus has been there and gone and excised that group from His protection and REMOVED the Lamps or seven spirits of Divine knowledge (Isaiah 11). Judgment is CERTAIN: the other angel to the LIVING is "preach the gospel." God and Show and don't Stay and PAY in the Madison published patternism.

Revelation is there as A WAY OF ESCAPE when you SING that song with a real or pseudo-instrumental sound: you know, the "Vocal Band" first sounded at Madison and half of the members FLED Babylon to escape the falling towers.

Rev 15:2 And I saw AS IT WERE a sea of glass mingled with fire:
and them that had gotten the victory over the beast,
and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name,
stand on the sea of glass, HOLDING the harps of God.


This means--to those with A holy spirit or A co-perception that they are APPREHENDING the Word of God. Only the lost cannot apprehend the Word even without word definitions.

[linked image]

 
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john Watson Smith
(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

Re: instrumental advocates

July 1 2012, 9:40 PM 

I am reminded of the words of Amos 5 where the prophet speaks to the house of Israel. God says he knows the many transgressions of which one is ......... taking bribes. Has not the instrumental advocate taken the bribe of personal fame and human approval to pervert the simple and pure worship of God?

Comments Welcome

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.22.24

Re: instrumental advocates

July 1 2012, 11:40 PM 

The advocates of instruments would say that today's culture-driven society "needs" something like instrumental music to "enhance" and "accompany" the singing as well as to "enhance the worship experience," which is supposed to get the congregants into a more worshipful mood. The advocates of instruments would argue that without instrumental music and other "additions" to worship, then worship is dry, dull, boring, and the congregants would lose interest. Such a shallow concept as much as admits that today's postmodern society is driven by hype and entertainment, instead of the power of the teachings from the New Testament.

The advocates of instruments would also argue that having instruments with an "interested and attentive congregation" is better than omitting instruments and having the congregation go elsewhere. Such a shallow concept implies that musical instruments, not the New Testament teachings of Christ and His apostles, are more responsible for enhancing people's "faith."

 
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Ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.79.238

Re: Edward Fudge Faith Only and Baptism: New Wine Skins Magazine

July 1 2012, 10:43 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.79.238

Re: Edward Fudge Faith Only and Baptism: New Wine Skins Magazine

July 1 2012, 10:54 PM 

THUS hath the Lord God shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit. Amos 8:1

Keluwb (h3619) kel-oob'; from the same as 3611; a bird-trap (as furnished with a clap-stick or treadle to spring it); hence a basket (as resembling a wicker cage): - basket, cage.

As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. Je.5:27

Keleb (h3611) keh'leb; from an unused root mean. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence (by euphemism) a male prostitute: - dog.

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly [multitude, swarm] of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. Ps.22:16

Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Is.56:11

And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the Lord: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy. Je.15:3


And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit.
.....Then said the Lord unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel;
.....I will not again pass by them any more. Amos 8:2

Aristophanes Archarnians
DICAEOPOLIS
Peace, profane men! Let the basket-bearer come forward, and thou Xanthias, hold the phallus well upright.

The maiden who carried the basket filled with fruits at the Dionysia in honour of Bacchus.
kanêphoros [pherô] carrying a basket:-- Kanêphoroi, hai, Basket-bearers, at Athens, maidens who carried on their heads baskets containing the sacred things used at the feasts of Demeter, Bacchus and Athena, Ar.
The emblem of the fecundity of nature; it consisted of a representation, generally grotesquely exaggerated, of the male genital organs; the phallophori crowned with violets and ivy and their faces shaded with green foliage, sang improvised airs, call `Phallics,' full of obscenity and suggestive `double entendres.'


Amos 8:3 And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day,
.....saith the Lord GOD: there shall be many dead bodies in every place;
.....they shall cast them forth with silence.

Amos 8:4 Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail,

Amos 8:5 Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn?
.....and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great,
.....and falsifying the balances by deceit?

Amos 8:6 That we may buy the poor for silver,
.....and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat?

Amos 8:7 The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob,
.....Surely I will never forget any of their works.

Amos 8:8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein?
.....and it shall rise up wholly as a flood;
.....and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

Amos 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD,
.....that I will cause the sun to go down at noon,
.....and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Amos 8:10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation;
.....and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head;
..... and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
.....that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
.....but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
.....they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

From workshop to workshop: in the words of Ezekiel as "prophets" they attend the workshops to "steal words one from another." He is especially worried about female "prophesiers" meaning "singing and playing instruments before the watching word." The Levites performed as SOOTHSAYERS with instruments.

Amos 8:13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

Amos 8:14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say,
.....Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth;
.....


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 166.248.79.238 on Jul 1, 2012 10:58 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Edward Fudge Faith Only and Baptism: New Wine Skins Magazine

July 2 2012, 3:34 PM 

"Has not the instrumental advocate taken the bribe of personal fame and human approval to pervert the simple and pure worship of God?"

Mr. Smith, do you believe that God needs to hear a bass note, along with a tenor, and alto and soprano note to understand our hearts? Why does anyone sing four part harmony then? Is it akin to wanting "human approval" then?

Comments welcome!



===================

"LMNOQ" -- Dave's new identity? We can't play this game much longer.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jul 3, 2012 12:00 AM


 
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B
(no login)
98.87.23.122

Re: Edward Fudge Faith Only and Baptism: New Wine Skins Magazine

July 3 2012, 8:17 AM 

Since Dave questions singing in harmony, does Dave believe that God needs to hear our singing in unison to understand our hearts? If not, then why do we sing at all? We sing because God has COMMANDED us to sing. And because God does not address volume, pitch, tempo, or whether we sing in harmony or in unison, we are allowed some variety in those areas. On the other hand, God has specified that we praise Him with vocal music, and there He stops. Therefore, we must stop where God stops. We may not go beyond where God has stopped; we may not go beyond what God specifies. WE MAY NOT ADD other kinds of music such as instrumental music, when God specifies vocal music.

This should be quite clear to those who wish to follow the teachings of the New Testament AS WRITTEN therein. Others who are not satisfied with the New Testament will make lame excuses to "justify" their unscriptural doctrines, beliefs, and behavior.


 
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john watson smith
(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

new wineskins and singing

July 4 2012, 10:08 AM 

What God told us to do we should do with what talents he has given us. God sees us as we really are no matter what the musical talent we have with part singing or not. We are to teach - admonish - encourage and strengthen. There is no command to put on a show with attendant impression of men with our musical talent.

We are to all participate in the activity if we wish to follow Gods direction. This means that we are to be inclusive of all members and whatever talents they have. SInging in the new testament is not something which can be improved on by "experts" who want to have praise teams and instruments.

Any musical idea which narrows involvement to less than the whole congregation is wrong.

Comments Welcome

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.243.105

Re: Edward Fudge Faith Only and Baptism: New Wine Skins Magazine

July 4 2012, 2:44 PM 

Dave really wants to emulate B with the identity bit, but Dave doesn't know which letter(s) of the alphabet to use as his handle, so he's trying them all--separately and in various combinations, upper and lower cases as well. Dave surely does have a lot of time to waste.

 
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Dave
(no login)
64.234.85.24

I am Who I Am

July 5 2012, 12:13 AM 

Dave, you need to clean up your act. I will not put up with this any longer.
Do you understand?




=========================

Dave entered "Donnie Cruz" as the poster's name. Sorry, Dave, this is your own IP address. But it's good to know that you are capable of issuing a message just for you. You need it badly. So, your message for you has been approved.

It's probably best that you FIRST take care of the flock at Clemson, SC, before posting any more of your insanity. It is a major responsibility!!! Hopefully, your behavior here is not reflective of what they "see" in you at your congregation.

What a title: "I am Who I AM" [sic].

It reminds me of what: "... God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM" (Exodus 3:14)


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jul 5, 2012 1:31 AM


 
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Jeremiah [Dave]
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Was A Bullfrog

July 5 2012, 2:06 PM 

Someone once said...."Since Dave questions singing in harmony, does Dave believe that God needs to hear our singing in unison to understand our hearts? If not, then why do we sing at all? We sing because God has COMMANDED us to sing."
I am CERTAINLY not speaking for Dave, but.....

Did He command us to sing with four-part harmony? No more than he commanded us to sing with instruments Did the first century church sing with four-part harmony or instruments? No, so why do we do employ such aids, that of four-part harmony and instruments? Because we obey the commandment to sing and neither four-part harmony nor instruments preclude men from singing....therefore STILL obeying the command.

Certainly hope that whoever Donnie is talking to.....gets the message. I believe that Donnie is completely, and utterly......fed UP!

======================

Hello, Dave.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jul 5, 2012 11:05 PM


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.203.168

Re: Was A Bullfrog

July 5 2012, 5:49 PM 

Why do people always focus on harmony? Why don't people focus on volume, pitch, and tempo? Did God command us to sing in 2-, 3-, or 4-part harmony? No. Did God command us to sing in unison? No. Did God address or specify the volume, pitch, and tempo of our singing? No. Does the New Testament SAY whether the first-century Christians sang in harmony or in unison, or the volume, pitch, and tempo they used? No. The bottom line is that the New Testament neither addresses harmony nor unison, nor does the New Testament address volume, tempo, or pitch of the singing; therefore, we have some liberty and variety in those areas.

On the other hand, since God explicitly addresses and specifies the KIND of music we are to use, which is VOCAL MUSIC, then we are NOT to go beyond that. Since God has specified vocal music and has chosen to stop there, then we are NOT to go beyond that by adding instruments or any other kinds of music.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.86.10

Re: Was A Bullfrog

July 5 2012, 6:53 PM 

People were not aware of harmony until after the arrival of the pipe organ. This gave professionals and monks time and effort to explore the fact that they had ten fingers. Simply harmony began to ooze out about 1250.

The Greek word for harmony means "unison" mostly two voices

harmonia , hê, ( [harmozô] ) union of two bones by mere apposition. IV. in Music, stringing
sunôidos (also suna^oidos E.HF787 (lyr.)), on, ( [ôidê] )
A. singing or sounding in unison with, echoing or responsive to,


Melody meant a series of single tones: Melody was not related to "tunefulness" before the 19th century. There is no meter in the whole Bible and Jesus said that He spoke the Spirit Word without METRON which most often speaks of meter.

But the only clue we have to the mental process by which in a preharmonic age different characteristics can be ascribed to scales identical in all but pitch, is to be found in the limited compass of Greek musical sounds, corresponding as it does to the evident sensitiveness of the Greek ear to differences in vocal effort.
We have only to observe the compass of the Greek scale
to see that in the most esteemed modes
it is much more the compass of speaking 'than of singing voices.


Some writer (I have the quote) said that music worked only on the lower classes of people: real gentlemen preferred to read the original.

Modern singing is normally at a much higher pitch than that of the speaking voice,
but there is no natural reason, outside the peculiar nature of modern music,
why this should be so.
It is highly probable that all modern singing would strike a classical Greek ear as an outcry; and in any case such variations of pitch as are inconsiderable in modern singing are extremely emphatic in the speaking voice, so that they might well make all the difference to an ear unaccustomed to organized sound beyond the speaking compass.

The Oxford History of Music, vols. i. and ii., will be found abundant examples of every stage of the process,
which begins with the organum or diapliony
that prevailed until the death of Guido of Arezzo (about 1050)
and passes through the discant, or measured music, of the I3th century,
in which rhythm is first organized on a sufficiently firm basis
to enable voices to sing contrasted rhythms simultaneously,
while the new harmonic criterion of the independence of parts
more and more displaces and shows its opposition to the old criterion
of parallelism.


So, it is important to understand what Scripture says in an era where sining was more screeching and screaming without meter (cantillation), and what we allow ourselves to do.

Sing or Hymn is defined as "in the style of Hebrew Cantillation."

The problem is resolved if you can accept that Qahal, Synagogue or Synagogue is a School of the Word of God only.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Was A Bullfrog

July 5 2012, 11:21 PM 

To Jeremiah, the bullfrog:

Dave, we have located you; you are kilometers or miles away from Clemson, SC.

km/mi
== ==
00 00 Clemson, SC, US
07 04 Central, SC, US
09 05 La France, SC, US
09 05 Newry, SC, US
10 06 Pendleton, SC, US
11 06 Norris, SC, US
11 06 Sandy Springs, SC, US
11 06 Seneca, SC, US
16 10 Liberty, SC, US
17 10 Six Mile, SC, US
17 10 Richland, SC, US
17 10 Townville, SC, US
. . . etc.


You have a choice:

(1) Be brave and unashamed as "Dave" or "Dave Fields"; or
(2) Choose one of the following: "little b" ... "Middle C" ... "Jeremiah" ... "Was" ... "the bullfrog" ... and be that author consistently; or
(3) Do not post.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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