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Skits?

August 2 2012 at 10:56 PM
Sonny  (no login)
from IP address 99.186.93.107

If skits are o.k. for teaching Bible stories and lessons of faith at Vacation Bible School on Sunday night through Wednesday night, is it o.k. to utilize such as part of a Sunday morning assembly? Is it always right or wrong, or does it depend on how it is done?

-Sonny

 
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AuthorReply
B
(no login)
74.179.209.225

Re: Skits?

August 3 2012, 7:48 AM 

What "teaching tools" did Jesus use to present the Gospel? Did He use skits? How about puppet shows or comedy routines? Did He organize elaborate drama productions with actors in costumes amid dazzling sets and a background choir or canned music track? Why not examine what the New Testament says?

"All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world" (Matt. 13:34-35 KJV).

Skits and drama productions with choirs and musical accompaniment were certainly available in Jesus' time, yet He never used them. Instead, He taught through parables. People can still learn the Gospel today through Jesus' parables.

 
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ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.83.72

Re: Skits?

August 3 2012, 12:18 PM 

Feminine dominated "church" never ceases to show hostile contempt for the intelligence of children.

Jesus was/is the personal LOGOS of God the Father. He was the SPOKEN Word of God and when the work of the Prophets and Apostles was finished He is the WRITTEN LOGOS of God.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Before the Laws of Moses Israel had been given The Book of The Covenant which was ABRAHAMIC.

Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

After the fall into musical idolatry God gave the SECOND LAW which did not abrogate God's Spiritual Covenant made by God in Christ to Abraham. The groups down to 10 was to TEACH before the Covenant or the Law Exodus 18

Deuteronomy 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deuteronomy 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deuteronomy 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.


Whatever the commands from God, the role was to TEACH them their history, covenants, decrees.

People who do skits are certain that THEIR plot and THEIR performance have more power than just reading the Word of God. Children grow up to disrespect their "religion" and they opt out when the women are still doing "coloring book boring" at about grade 6. How can they have a love for the Word when the sermons and songs and skits and dances prove that their elders don't really believe any of it. Just obey the commanded pattern of Christ in the wilderness and PREACH the Word by READING the Word: this will enhance brain growth and they will grasp it when THEY ARE READY.

[linked image]



 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.38.124

Skits and What Else

August 6 2012, 1:05 PM 

The unforgettable quote made from the stage Sunday was,

"We can worship God anyway that we please."

This is a fact.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.85.197

Re: Skits and What Else

August 6 2012, 1:32 PM 

I have the right to instruct Obama any way I wish: He has the right to not even know my name. That's what Jesus said to the musical "lord lord" prophesiers: God doesn't even know your name.

Of course, Paul used the pattern of Jesus to prove that we do NOT have the right to worship God any way we wish: The imagination of man is only evil continually!

Paul said that "doubtful disputations" about any personal opinion not based on "that which is written for our learning" is NOT to be received (Romans 14) In Romans 14 He DENIED that right:

WE then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Romans 15:1

Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification (teaching, education). Romans 15: 2

For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. Romans 15:3

Areskos A. pleasing, mostly in bad sense, obsequious, cringing, Arist.EN1108a28, 1126b12, Thphr.Char.5.1.
II. areskos, ho, the staff borne by pornoboskoi [brothel keeper] on the stage, Poll.4.120.

Aresk├┤ I. of pers. only, make good, make amends, spondas theois aresasthai make full drink-offerings to the gods, please, satisfy, be Lord and Master.

IV. areskei is used impers. to express the opinion or resolution of a public body, also of prevailing opinions; ta areskonta the dogmas of philosophers

please, satisfy, despoz├┤ 2. c. gen., to be lord or master of, h.Cer.365, Hdt.3.142 as law-term, to be the legal proprietor,

Heredotus 3. I always disliked it that Polycrates or any other man should lord it over men like himself. Polycrates has fulfilled his destiny, and inviting you to share his power I proclaim equality.

PLEASE IS: Aresko (g700) ares'-Jo; prob. from 142 (through the idea of EXCITING EMOTIONS)
IV. areskei is used impers. to express the opinion or resolution of a public body IV. areskei is used impers. to express the opinion or resolution of a public body
aeir , Ep., Ion., and poet.; air 2. ogkon arasthai to be puffed up, S.Aj. 129; thaumaston ogkon aramenoi tou muthou Pl.Plt.277b.

Plat. Stat. 277b we too, at this time, wishing to make quick progress, and also to make clear in a grand style the error of our previous course, and, moreover, fancying that the use of great illustrations was proper in the case of a king, have taken up a marvellous mass of myth and have consequently been obliged to use a greater part of it than we should. So we have made our discourse too long and after all have never made an end of the tale,

ogkos (B), o(,Id.Metaph.1085a12, 1089b14 ; also ho o. ts phns the volume of the note
3. of style, loftiness, majesty, o. ts lexes Arist. Rh.1407b26 ; ho tou poimatos o. Id.Po.1459b28, cf. Demetr.Eloc.36, al. : in bad sense, bombast, ho Aiskhulou o. Plu.2.79b.

Myth 2. fiction (opp. logos, historic truth), Pi.O.1.29 (pl.), N.7.23 (pl.), Pl.Phd.61b, Prt.320c, 324d, etc.

logos , o(, verbal noun of leg (B), with senses corresponding to leg (B)

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.50.30

Re: Skits and What Else

August 11 2012, 12:32 PM 

The unforgettable quote made from the stage Sunday was,
"We can worship God anyway that we please."

*********************

What was the context around the statement? I am not trying to defend the statement. Just curious.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.81.80

Re: Skits and What Else

August 11 2012, 4:11 PM 

"We can worship God anyway that we please."

There is no possible context which would rescue that arrogant person: The "laded burden" silenced by Jesus and the "Self-pleasure" condemned by Paul in Romans 15 before defining THE ONE PIECE PATTERN: "Use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for out learning." Giving heed to reading the Word of Christ is the ONLY worship concept defined in the New Testament or for the synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness by the Spirit of Christ (the Rock). The Lord's Supper is a showing forth or TEACHING confession that Jesus died for us.

http://www.piney.com/MuJWMc.html

J. W. McGarvey
You ask: "How can I most successfully show that the use of the organ in the worship is wrong? What are the strong points of the argument?"

I think you put the question in the proper form. If the "strong points of the argument" will not convince, it is certain that the weak ones will not; and it is well to save words by discussing the former alone.

I begin by arguing that the practice belongs to a class of things expressly condemned in the New Testament.

Jesus said in reference to certain additions which the Pharisees had made to the ritual of the law: "In vain do they worship me, teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men." In these words he propounds the doctrine that all worship is vain which originates in human authority; or, to put it negatively, that no worship is acceptable to God which he himself has not authorized.

Paul echoes this teaching when he condemns as "will worship" the observance of, ordinances "after the precepts and doctrines of men." (Col. 2: 20-23, R. V.)

The Greek word here rendered "will worship" means worship self-imposed, as distinguished from worship imposed by God; and the practices referred to in the context are condemned on this ground, thus showing that all self-imposed worship is wrong in the sight of God.

 
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William Hall
(no login)
108.28.128.160

Re. Parables

August 6 2012, 2:36 PM 

Not quite, Brother B.

Jesus performed miracles for all to see. He preached direct and straight forward sermons. As we have the Sermon on the Mount, it only takes about seven minutes to deliver. He partied. He engaged in discourse with others. I think you could argue that the "triumphal entry" was a bit of a show. When he and his apostles/disciples went along they were accompanied by groupies, including no small number of women.

You have limited our Lord too much.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.246.57

Re: Re. Parables

August 6 2012, 10:01 PM 

Jesus taught through parables. He performed miracles to convince others of His divinity. The latter were not drama productions with actors, dazzling sets, elaborate choreography, and music, contrary to what some folks think. People want to see Jesus as being "just like them" today, which means entertainment-seeking, fun-loving whoopie-mongers. I hardly think that Jesus was the wild and sexy party-crasher that some would picture Him. Let's not make our Lord into a worldly vagabond.

 
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William Hall
(no login)
108.18.180.46

Re: Vagabond

August 9 2012, 1:32 PM 

Vagabond is perhaps too negative in connotation, as is gadfly. But for his time both would have been close descriptions. Perhaps the most accurate description is "itinerant." He went place to place teaching and appearing, and had no permanent place of residence, unlike even the foxes. But to tell the truth, I think gadfly fits pretty well, too. He was constantly challenging the status quo, constantly making religious folk re-evaluate their positions, and constantly expanding the inclusiveness of his message. And he did all that while remaining true to the Law, but looking forward to the abolishment of the Law.

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.22.186

Re: Vagabond

August 9 2012, 2:16 PM 

And He did it without the "aid" or "accompaniment" or "enhancement" of trained actors, dazzling sets, glitzy costumes, professional singers and musicians, choreographers, or choir.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.81.55

Re: Vagabond

August 9 2012, 2:46 PM 

Jesus stood up to READ in the synagogue and then sat down.
He went OUT to preach: He said for that reason came I out.

The progressives say that Jesus OWNED a house and therefore told a lie.

So we have a Direct command to Go.
We have the ONLY example of Jesus
So, can we infer that the word GO means to GO.

The Gospel of the KINGDOM does not intend to manipulate people into wanting to get baptized: It is like a Go-NoGo test. If you are a lost spirit Jesus was sent to SEEK and SAVE then you will--like a lost sheep--hear His Voice. Those OF the world for which Jesus would not even pray do NOT hear the voice of the Shepherd and leave the fold and follow the wolves.

A faithful preacher CANNOT enhance the Word presuming to guild the lily. His job is to press or "teach that which has been taught"

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

apodekhomai , 2. accept as a teacher, follow, X.Mem.4.1.1,etc.; a. tina sumboulon Pl.Prt.323c.

A hypocrite is defined as a performance speaker or any of the performing arts and crafts (Rom 15 Self-pleasers, making group-decisions to please the masses).

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.63.158

Re: Vagabond

August 9 2012, 5:55 PM 

Hey "B", you left out PA system. [linked image]
happy.gif

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.7.202

Re: Vagabond

August 9 2012, 9:27 PM 

Let's be realistic, Racnor. PA systems as we now know them were not available to Jesus in His day. The other show-biz items I mentioned had their equivalents at the time, yet Jesus had no need for them. But suppose PA systems had been available back then to enable the crowds to hear the Gospel better. Would Jesus have used them? I guess we'll never know.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.7.202

Re: Vagabond

August 9 2012, 9:57 PM 

Here's something else to consider: Did you ever think that, even had PA systems been available at the time, Jesus may not have needed them, because He miraculously was able to make Himself heard to crowds of any size?

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.63.158

Re: Vagabond

August 9 2012, 10:29 PM 

Just having a bit of fun with you "B". I agree, we will never know.

 
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William Hall
(no login)
108.28.128.160

Re. Skits

August 6 2012, 2:31 PM 

Like many topics of discussion here, there are sides to this. Overall, we do not know much about early Christian intercourse among congregational groups on a day to day basis. Some say that the best model is the synagogue, where the synagogue served like a community center except for Sabbath services. The church grounds and buildings may and perhaps should serve as a place of gathering, weddings, feasts, etc., although all do not agree, but the time that we come together for a formal assembly is clearly different. . I am a little uncertain as to how the first assemblies were organized: it is clear that women attended but they sat quietly by. I believe that from time to time, at least, the assembly was somewhat interactive. Note that Acts 20:7 is sometimes translated Paul discoursed with them, indicating participation. I suspect questions and lengthy answers.

Vacation Bible School has not always been with us, it has not always contained quite so much play time, and it has not always been Sunday evening through Wednesday evening. During the times of the Churches fastest modern day growth VBS was unknown, and in its earlier years VBS may have taken up M-F, including two meetings a day. Incidentally, this year I participated in my congregation's VBS, which was Daniel in Babylon. That program was produced by a Baptist publishing house, and I taught in the "astronomy school". It was enjoyable, but goofy, and I don't really think our children learned very much. Yes, in the '50s the focus of VBS was much more direct but the learning was presented better, too.

I agree that we probably underestimate the capacity for children to absorb information and ideas at early ages.Personally, I am o.k. with "puppet ministries", "children's worship" including skits, etc.,in a back room for those not old enough to really understand the activities in the assembly and can be a distraction to the purpose of the assembly, but at some point they also need to be brought in so that they learn to just sit quietly by.

I have been recently informed that there are more congregations of the Church in Africa than in the United States (I cannot verify the veracity of that statement), and there are more members of the Church in India than in the United States, which I believe. Such distractions as skits and puppet ministries seem to be unknown or at least rare there, where people are thirsting for the truth. We seem to be thirsting for mega-church.

So during VBS we use the tools available to us to teach and learn. That the activities take place on the church grounds is not the same as the formal assembly. Your question would be more to the point if you asked about skits, chalk-talks, etc., before or after the times set aside for assembly.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.82.45

Re: Re. Skits

August 6 2012, 4:54 PM 

Well said. It is important that the skitter understands the text. Some things can be acted others out. I would not want to play the God role.

Dramatic dance by young girls as liturgy seems like dancing in tongues.

 
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Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.123.125

Re: Re. Skits

August 10 2012, 12:57 PM 

Ken, I agree with your comments. We have all probably been a part of a good puppet lesson for kiddos, but things can be taken too far. I think things for kids have their place and it may even be appropriate on a Sunday night or two a year. There is nothing wrong with showing the rest of the congregation what the children are learning in their bible classes or even separate worship settings if that is what the congregation chooses to do.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.7.36

Re: Re. Skits

August 12 2012, 8:32 PM 

"...if that is what the congregation chooses to do."

That sounds like it might be a first cousin to, "We can worship God any way that we please."

In that sense, some congregations may believe that how they worship doesn't matter as long as the majority of the congregants choose to do it that way.

Of course, the New Testament doesn't give us permission to do as we please, either in our daily living or in worship.

 
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