Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
B
(no login)
74.179.7.36

Re: Re. Skits

August 12 2012, 8:44 PM 

"...if that is what the congregation chooses to do."

Maybe a more accurate ending should be, "...if that is compatible with New Testament teachings."

Some congregations may get the erroneous notion that they may do anything they please as long as the majority of the congregation goes along with it.



 
 Respond to this message   
Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.123.125

Re: Re. Skits

August 13 2012, 9:39 AM 

What Dr. Crump means, of course, is "a congregation must act in accordance to what Dr. Crump believes the New Testament teaches." This philosophy has been revealed to us many times by Dr. Crump on this site.

There are many areas of worship that are not delineated in the New Testament. For example, do we have Sunday morning bible classes, do we have Sunday evening services, do we have a Children's worship hour separate from the main worship service, do we have Wednesday evening services, do we sing traditional or contemporary songs, do we allow the children of the congregation to have a "special service" to show what they are learning in VBS or Worship Hour. These are all things that are never discussed in the New Testament, yet are issues which are found in contemporary congregations. Skits or puppet shows in VBS and the worship service fall into the same category. As Ken mentioned, the main thing to understand is that the teachers of these programs must have a foundation in biblical teaching or the programs will be of no benefit.

I am sorry that Dr. Crump feels that all congregations must adopt to his own personal viewpoints to be "true congregations." But, it is something that we have grown to expect from him and his Hollywood theism.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.179.246.36

Re: Re. Skits

August 13 2012, 12:01 PM 

No, Tom is basically telling us that it is the will of the congregation, not the New Testament, that sets the tone for worship; whatever the majority of the congregation wants, the congregation gets. That's why he said, "...if that is what the congregation chooses to do." We at CM, of course, encourage everyone to make sure their worship coincides with the teachings of the New Testament. It's sad that Tom and other postmodernists of similar mindset also feel that people who advocate adherence to the New Testament are imposing their will on everyone else.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.179.247.56

Re: Re. Skits

August 13 2012, 1:27 PM 

How many different ways does Jesus have to say, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46 KJV) before the postmodernists finally realize that the ONLY way to interpret His teachings is to do EXACTLY what He says to do in the New Testament? Jesus didn't give us options on different interpretations of His teachings. Jesus expects us to take His teachings AS WRITTEN and DO them as He has instructed.

 
 Respond to this message   
Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.123.125

Re: Re. Skits

August 13 2012, 4:22 PM 

So, Dr. Crump, please enlighten everyone what the New Testament teaches as far as Sunday evening services, Wednesday evening services, 5th Sunday night singing services, the necessity of Sunday morning bible classes, contemporary vs. traditional songs, and Sunday evening life group meetings in Christian homes. I am sure that you can fill all of us in on these important topics.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.240.239.62

Re: Re. Skits

August 13 2012, 6:48 PM 

So, Tom, please enlighten everyone what the New Testament teaches about preachers who believe that the congregants should be kept in stitches, so they act as stand-up comics in the pulpit; clown and puppet "ministries"; so-called "recreational ministries" (AKA "church" on the golf course or out boating on the lake); holding elaborate drama productions at Christmas and Easter that elicit accolades and standing ovations from the congregants; praise teams and solo singers who perform to the eager applause of the congregants; and songs with a raucous and heavy beat that mimic worldly rock/pop music. I'm sure that you can fill all of us in on these "important" topics with which a number of churches are preoccupied in order to please the congregants and keep them happily entertained.

To be compatible with New Testament teachings, our actions must comply with the general principles set forth therein. Here are some illustrative passages from the KJV:

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" (Rom. 12:2). Some folks would say, "Not everyone agrees on what 'being conformed to the world' is." In other words, their view is, "One man's meat is another man's poison." If people are discerning enough, they know if their actions are compatible with New Testament principles.

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God" (James 4:4). Entertainment in worship--in whatever form it appears--brings the ways of the world into worship and pollutes it; hence, "worshiptainment" is incompatible with these New Testament passages.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15). Bible classes and Bible meetings are times for Scriptural study.

Tom should realize that "...if that is what the congregation chooses to do" can give the impression that we may do as we please. Surely Tom doesn't believe that--or does he? As I've said before, his statement would have been more accurate had he said, "...if that is compatible with New Testament teachings."

I hope Tom now has a better understanding of this subject.





 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

The Impacting New Testament Teachings

August 13 2012, 7:39 PM 

Hopefully, we all can agree that the New Testament must be the basis for teachings in the church of Jesus Christ and that it is our guide for Christian living. Without understanding this premise, most of the discussions here among members of the church of Christ will remain complex and difficult to resolve. (But for those outside of our fellowship, let them debate their own issues whether or not New Testament teachings are significant or insignificant to them.)

While there are Old Testament principles that are eternal in nature (love God; do not kill; do not steal; etc.), the point is simply that to the New Testament Christian, there is the New Testament church; there were the apostles of Christ; we are under the law of Christ (not Moses); we are under the NEW covenant (NOT the old covenant or testament). For example, we no longer observe the sabbath day; we no longer offer blood sacrifices and burnt offerings; etc.

Again, it is about what the New Testament teaches.

Of course, we should take into consideration how one interprets the New Testament!!! But there other factors that must be taken into consideration as well.

(1) What do we know about the history of the Restoration Movement and our forefathers who taught that "we speak where the Bible speaks..."; that "we reject human creeds [paraphrased]"; that we reject denominationalism; etc.; etc.

(2) What do we know about the change agents operating in the brotherhood today who are attempting to rewrite the RM history; who embrace denominationalism; who portray that the New Testament of our Lord [the "Church of Christ" in their own context] is just another denomination; who compromise the truth in order to get along with the denominational world; who authorize themselves to teach salvation per Baptist doctrine; who authorize themselves to change, modify and improve upon other teachings that Christ and His apostles have taught us.

(3) Consider the damage and divisiveness that the change agents [described above] have created as a result of their culture-driven change schemes to "grow the church." Such egostistical characters to make names for themselves!!!

The assembly of the church on the first day of the week should not be an issue, although it has been made into an issue because of the Saturday gatherings: (1) to also be able on this day to commemorate the Lord's death; (2) to please and allow instrumental music lovers to their thingy.

The commemoration of the Lord's Supper on the first day of the week should not be an issue per NT teachings and when the Christians in the first century did it. But it has become an issue since the change agents now teach that the commemoration is more than about the death of Christ. Some propose a fellowship meal of BBQ and chips and drinks to go along.

The OTHER gatherings on Sunday evenings, Wednesday evenings and other days for the sole purpose of additional Bible studies should not be an issue. MEETING TIMES are decisions that elders can make, if these have nothing to do with changing the teachings of Christ and His apostles.

In fact, the Scripture teaches that how that Jesus said: "I sat daily with you teaching in the temple" (Matt. 26:55). "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me" (Luke 9:23); "... that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily" (Acts 17:11).

We can argue forever about the "OTHER" gathering times. But to those that prefer to stick to what the New Testament teaches (doctrinal matters), it all has to do with either questioning or accepting the CONTENTS and OBJECTIVES of these gatherings, especially when it is OTHER THAN what Christ and His apostles taught. Prime examples: (a) enhancing "worship" with instrumental music in the assembly of saints; (b) teaching that to be buried with Christ in baptism does not remit sins in His blood; rather that baptism is only a symbol of "obedience"; (c) allowing women to lead men in the church; (d) etc; etc.

There are the harmful effects that change agents have brought upon the church, dangerous schemes that the New Testament wants to avoid.

Essentially, it is one of these choices:

(1) Does one prefer to be aligned with the teachings of the New Testament and its principles that the Restoration Movement forefathers taught; or

(2) Does one prefer to be aligned with the modern-day change agents whose teachings are foreign to the New Testament and who compromise the truth to get along with denominationalism for the sake of culture-driven "church growth schemes"?

 
 Respond to this message   
Tom Brite
(no login)
66.87.100.15

Re: The Impacting New Testament Teachings

August 13 2012, 8:31 PM 

Dr. Crump, why am I not surprised that you would not answer a simple question? The obvious answer is that you can not defend with scripture your passion for your personal preferences. Your silly little game is below those who love Christ and His Church.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
98.87.21.64

Re: The Impacting New Testament Teachings

August 14 2012, 12:03 AM 

Tom, I answered your question and with Scripture to boot. Your problem is that you failed to understand it, or you had already made up your mind that you would thumb your nose at it. Either way, I'm not surprised. You're like Dave, who neither agrees with nor understands Ken at all, so Dave rags, belittles, and insults Ken all the time. You do the same to those whom you do not understand and with whom you disagree. I'd say that if Tom ever manages to overcome his persistent state of being hacked off, he might find that his ability to comprehend answers to his questions remarkably improves.

 
 Respond to this message   
Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.123.125

Re: The Impacting New Testament Teachings

August 14 2012, 7:06 AM 

Dr. Crump, it is obvious to anyone with a 2nd grade education (the basic ability to read) that you did not answer the question. All you did was quote scripture without any application. Donnie gave the most reasoned response to the question. You did nothing more than any good Baptist, Catholic or any other religious group would do. There are areas of option for the Elders of any congregation. Some congregations can be more "conservative" and stay within the scriptures that you quoted, some can be more "liberal" and be within the scriptures you quoted. There are areas of option and opinion within any congregation while still remaining true to the Bible.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.179.205.107

Re: The Impacting New Testament Teachings

August 14 2012, 11:15 AM 

Tom, are you finding some sense of closure with your steady rants against B? Now you just go right ahead and scream, yell, holler, and spew out all that nasty ole venom and acid you've had pent up inside. Break something. Throw a brick into yer computer screen if that'll help you get over yer hissy fit. Get it all off yer chest for as long as it takes. Of course, Tom won't understand how much good B is doing him now--he's still boiling over--but some day he'll kiss B's...hand and thank B for willing to be his scapegoat.

Eventually looking ahead to peaceful, marvelous days for Tom--after the cure.


 
 Respond to this message   
Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.123.125

Re: The Impacting New Testament Teachings

August 14 2012, 1:07 PM 

Dr. Crump, first, I am the luckiest man alive and I give God all the glory for my life. I have a wonderful, loving family and the life of a son that was almost taken from me. Your hateful attitude towards any that disagree with you indict your self, not me or anyone else. I feel pity for you.

Again, you failed to answer any question or engage in dialogue. Again, the signs of a little man. But perhaps you will grow and learn that your opinion is not equal to God's nor the most important opinion on earth. I know it is obvious to any who might read this page who needs the help, I pray you get it. If you ever feel like discussing issues, please let me know. When that day comes, you will stop being an embarrassment to Churches of Christ.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.179.242.214

Re: The Impacting New Testament Teachings

August 15 2012, 9:18 AM 

Tom can continue this no-you-didn't-yes-I-did argument until Doom's Day for all I care, but it simply won't change the fact that, had Tom possessed sufficient discernment, he would have easily understood my answer to his question. But in his case, that was not to be. Time to move on.

 
 Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: Skits?

August 14 2012, 11:33 PM 

and I quote..... [. . .]

No comment needed.....

None offered..........

The quote speaks for itself.....


________________________

Message not conducive to learning God's truth


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Aug 15, 2012 12:18 AM


 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 1 2 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter