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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 24 2012, 1:16 PM 

KJV Acts 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


THE HOLY GHOST. Our spirits our clean because we are washed, but that is different from what we receive......."the gift of the Holy Ghost."

John 14
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Jesus directs his conversation away from Philip and to EVERYONE when he says ",HE that believeth on me..."

If Jesus is speaking to EVERYONE in verse 12, then He is doing the same in verse 26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.79.159

Jesus received the Promise (Direct Commission) as Holy Spirit

September 24 2012, 1:47 PM 

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth;
.....whom the world cannot receive,
.....because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:
.....but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you,
.....and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter [parakletos], which is the Holy Ghost,
.....whom the Father will send in my name, [His Name will be Jesus Christ]
.....he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance,
.....whatsoever I have said unto you. [Christ in Spirit form]
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

The same John identified the "I" Who was with then and would be IN them: IN does not means INSIDE OF. A parallel statement is "Abide with."

And if any man sin, we have an advocate [parakletos] with the Father,
.....Jesus Christ the righteous:
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only,
.....but also for the sins of the whole world.
1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him,
..... if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar,
.....and the truth is not in him

Jesus of Nazareth in His post-glorified state is HOLY (wholly) SPIIRIT and as such is STILL the King, Head, High Priest. He is Intercessor, Mediator as the "Man Christ Jesus)

By request at Baptism God gives us A good conscience or A holy spirit which is OUR Spirit. Paul never hints of the Spirit OF Christ being "another God person" who not takes priority. No historical Trinitarian ever spoke of the persons of the Godhead but the personae. The original Nicean Creed acknowledged the Father and Lord connection and as an afterthought said "and we believe in the Holy Spirit."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.79.159

Ephesians: Saved by Grace Through Faith FROM part THREE

September 24 2012, 1:27 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.79.159

Ephesians 2 Saved by Grace FROM part Four

September 24 2012, 2:56 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Racnor (short timer)
(no login)
98.81.112.142

Mythology

September 24 2012, 4:00 PM 

A very regular poster once said "Grace was a blue eyed blond prostitute". I think he was referring to mythology but he didn't bother to explain that in his post. Mythology has no place in Bible discussion for obvious reasons.


THE BIBLE IS A BOOK OF REALITY.
For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty (2 Peter 1:16).

This Bible stands in complete distinction to the mythology of the era in which it was composed. You have only to read a little of the Greek or Roman or Egyptian or Babylonian mythologies to understand that there exists the greatest gulf between these and the Bible.

In contrast to such myths and fairy tales, Peter says, "The things about which we wrote to you are not theological speculation, but rather an eye witness account." John says the same thing when he speaks of "what was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of Life" (1 John 1:1).

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.8.152

Re: Mythology

September 24 2012, 6:21 PM 

So who is worse: the Christian who discusses mythology with the Bible or the Christian who scoffs at the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command and does as he pleases?

 
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Racnor (short timer)
(no login)
98.81.112.142

Re: Mythology

September 24 2012, 7:22 PM 

Hey "B", I'm not taking sides. I respect both you and Ken. I think if you ADD the "book of Enoch" to the Bible you open the door to the "Book of Mormon" and the "Apocrypha". Can we just be content with the Bible and the quotes it contains from Enoch?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.79.159

Re: Mythology

September 24 2012, 7:40 PM 

Good plan. Since there is no command, example, remote inference of POSSIBILITY of congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment in MY Bible, where do you suppose the musicators get the idea.

The only known Bible and contemporaneous thought says that the DEVIL taught mankind how to do mixed-sex choirs, instrumental music and wearing of apparel (that clergy thingy).

No one COULD EVER and CAN NEVER obey the direct command to use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning. THEREFORE, the Reformers allowed psalms (only) to be radically recomposed and set to meter for unison singing only (based on the one voice command)

When instruments were added there was a deliberate intention (then and now) to let the limpy-singy types WRITE that for our learning intentionally rebuking Jesus Christ because they have "a spirit" inside of their bodies commanding them to sow massive discord.

That's why it is important, just as Moses did, to know the Babylonian Mother's worship so he - we can tell people not to NOT GO THERE.

Ezek. 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you;
.....and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh,
.....and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezek. 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes,
.....and keep mine ordinances, and do them:
and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.


I hope you CENSOR and CENSURE your preacher's sermons and the songs before next Sunday.



 
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B
(no login)
74.179.247.38

Re: Mythology

September 24 2012, 8:31 PM 

As far as I know: the Bible does not quote from the Book of Mormon; the Book of Enoch is not a part of the Jewish Apocrypha or New Testament Apocrypha.

Mortal men decided which books would comprise the biblical canon. Therefore, if inspired writers resort to quoting from books written by allegedly "uninspired" writers, then it makes one wonder if the biblical canon is really all that complete.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.79.159

Re: Mythology

September 24 2012, 8:54 PM 

The Apocrypha was in the LXX version from which Jesus Quotes. He does not quote from the Apocrypha but He would be aware that this was the only writings between the testaments where there were no writing prophets. These books describe the history of the Jews with as much authority as the Scribes who wrote for that period after observing the Law of Moses when the nation had been abandoned to worship the starry host.

The Spirit of Christ breathed on the writing prophets: not on the kings, priests, Levites or commanders of the army under whom the Levite Soothsayers had their authority:

Jer. 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is WITH US? LO, CERTAINLY IN VAIN MADE HE IT; THE PEN OF THE SCRIBES IS in vain.

The Lying Pen of the Scribes SAID that God made the Temple when Stephen and Jesus were murdered for denying that and labeling the Scribes as hypocrites where Christ in Ezekiel 33 naming slick speakers, singers and instrument players along with the AUDIENCE (elders) MARKED by telling God to shut His face.

8267. sheqer, sheh´-ker; from 8266; an untruth; by implication, a sham (often adverbial):without a cause, deceit(-ful), false(-hood, -ly), feignedly, liar, + lie, lying, vain (thing), wrongfully.

Jer. 8:9 The wise MEN ARE ASHAMED, THEY ARE DISMAYED AND TAKEN: LO, THEY HAVE REJECTED THE WORD OF THE LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

Jer. 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.


Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on John,

http://www.piney.com/Cyril.Alexandria.Gospel.John.html

That the Pharisees puffed up unto strange boasting,
were wont to pretend that the Divine Word was with them and in them,
and therefore foolishly affirmed that they had advanced to marvellous wisdom,
.....the Spirit Itself will testify, since Christ says by the Prophet Jeremiah unto them,
.....How do ye say, WE are wise, and the word of the Lord is with us?
.....For nought to the scribes became their lying pen;
.....the wise men were ashamed, were dismayed and taken;
.....what wisdom is in them? because they rejected the word of the Lord.

For how are they not taken rejecting the Living and Hypostatic Word of God,
.....receiving not the faith to Him-ward,
.....but dishonouring the Impress of God the Father,
..... and refusing to behold His most true Form (so to say)
.....through His God-befitting Authority and Power?


So what shall we say of ELDERS who let parasites dominate them by building the foundation of instrumental "worship" on the backs of soothsaying or divining Levites cursed from their beginning by Jacob.

At least Enoch will never make you pay for rebuking lying and blasphemous false pretenders--parasites.






 
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Racnor (gone)
(no login)
98.81.112.142

Book of Enoch Inspired?

September 25 2012, 8:48 AM 

"B", we should treat the Book of Enoch (and the other books like it) in the same manner we do the other Apocryphal writings. Some of what the "Apocrypha" says is true and correct, but at the same time, much of it is false and historically inaccurate. If you read these books, you have to treat them as interesting but fallible historical documents, not as the inspired, authoritative Word of God.

Jude's quote is not the only quote in the Bible from a non-biblical source. The Apostle Paul quotes Epimenides in Titus 1:12 but that does not mean we should give any additional authority to Epimenides writings. The same is true with Jude, verse 14. Jude quoting from the book of Enoch in Jude verse 9 does not indicate the entire book is inspired, or even true. All it means is that particular verse is true.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.1.37

Re: Book of Enoch Inspired?

September 25 2012, 1:03 PM 

BUT, Jude does tell us FOR WHOM God will (is) come in Judgment against the ungodly: ANYONE who uses any of the hypocritic arts and crafts to silence the Living Word.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.78.106

Re: Book of Enoch Inspired?

September 27 2012, 4:15 PM 

"There are a vast number of false and spurious writings which deserve mention at this point; not because anyone would seriously contend for their authority, but because they do represent the religious lore of the Hebrews in the inter testamental period. Strangely enough, the New Testament writers make use of a number of the books, for example, Jude 14-15 have a possible quotation from the Book of Enoch (1:9) and the Assumption of Moses (1:9); and an allusion from the Penitence of Jannes and Jambres is found in II Timothy 3:8. Of course, it should be remembered that the New Testament also quotes from the heathen poets Aratus (Acts 17:28); Meander (1 Cor. 15:33); and Epimenides (Titus 1:12). Truth is truth no matter where it is found whether uttered by a heathen poet, a pagan prophet (Num. 24:17), or even a dumb animal (Num. 22:28)." (Nix/Geisler, A General Introduction to the Bible, p. 165).

If you want to understand "the unknown God" you have to know Epimenides:

And some even of the philosophers, after the poets, make idols of forms of the affections in your breasts,-such as fear, and love, and joy, and hope; as, to be sure, Epimenides of old, who raised ar Athens the altars of Insult and Impudence. Other objects deified by men take their rise from events, and are fashioned in bodily shape, such as a Dike, a Clotho, and Lachesis, and Atropos, and Heimarmene, and Auxo, and Thallo, which are Attic goddesses.

http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/the_unknown_God.htm


You don't have to be literary illiterate just so you can INVENT the use of machines to attack God.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.78.106

Re: Book of Enoch Inspired?

September 27 2012, 4:23 PM 

"There are a vast number of false and spurious writings which deserve mention at this point; not because anyone would seriously contend for their authority, but because they do represent the religious lore of the Hebrews in the inter testamental period. Strangely enough, the New Testament writers make use of a number of the books, for example, Jude 14-15 have a possible quotation from the Book of Enoch (1:9) and the Assumption of Moses (1:9); and an allusion from the Penitence of Jannes and Jambres is found in II Timothy 3:8. Of course, it should be remembered that the New Testament also quotes from the heathen poets Aratus (Acts 17:28); Meander (1 Cor. 15:33); and Epimenides (Titus 1:12). Truth is truth no matter where it is found whether uttered by a heathen poet, a pagan prophet (Num. 24:17), or even a dumb animal (Num. 22:28)." (Nix/Geisler, A General Introduction to the Bible, p. 165).

If you want to understand "the unknown God" you have to know Epimenides:

And some even of the philosophers, after the poets, make idols of forms of the affections in your breasts,-such as fear, and love, and joy, and hope; as, to be sure, Epimenides of old, who raised ar Athens the altars of Insult and Impudence. Other objects deified by men take their rise from events, and are fashioned in bodily shape, such as a Dike, a Clotho, and Lachesis, and Atropos, and Heimarmene, and Auxo, and Thallo, which are Attic goddesses.

http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/the_unknown_God.htm


You don't have to be literary illiterate just so you can INVENT the use of machines to attack God.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.79.159

Restoration view of A holy spirit

September 24 2012, 5:53 PM 

Walter Scott Restoration Movement Leader

http://www.piney.com/HsBsAcWs.html

Again--Some will say, What does the expression Holy Spirit mean?

1. Well, in scripture it stands first for God the Holy Spirit,
2. and secondly for the holy mind or spirit of a believer-

-for illustration, take Peter's words to Ananias, "Why has Satan tempted you to lie to the Holy Spirit; you have not lied to men, but to God," (the Holy Spirit.) And the Saviour says, How much more will your heavenly Father give A holy spirit (as it should be translated) to those that ask him.

Again--Praying in A holy spirit. Again--Paul says he approved himself God's servant "by knowledge, by long sufferings, by kindness, by A holy spirit'" by a mind innocent of the love of gain, or commerce, or sensuality.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.36.238

Restoration Views on Godhood

September 24 2012, 11:09 PM 

Barton W Stone was similar to an "Arian" believing that Jesus was subordinate to the Father, since he thought this view explained the scriptures accurately. All Stone's group did not go with him to Campbell, but formed what eventually became the "United Church of Christ," who are much softer on almost every doctrine.

A. Campbell, more of a "sacramentalist," didn't go as far, in that he rejected the use of "trinity" because it was not found in the scripture as such, and he said, "if the word is not in the scripture, how can we be sure that its meaning is"--I am just paraphrasing him.

Could we just consign this to one of the "mysteries" of God without having a shoot-out about it?

Certainly something that was not solidly creedalized until the Council of Chalcedon in the late 4th century, we should not endorse as of New Testament origin, at least not certainly.

Some thought that Stone surrendered too much to Campbell.

Would you go so far as to say that if one were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Spirit) that they should be rebaptized in name of Jesus Christ? I hardly think so.

Any ideas?


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Restoration Views on Godhood

September 25 2012, 8:26 AM 

It is unfortunate that the expression in Matt. 28:19, "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost," is used to prove the Nicene/Catholic Trinity Doctrine.

I find it "strange" that those who believe that the "Holy Spirit" being the third person in the Trinity are not that comfortable in asserting that the "Holy Ghost" is that same "third person" of the Trinity. Are they afraid of "ghosts"? Or, are they confused by stating that a "ghost" is a person? Why is the "Holy Spirit" not the first person? Or the second person?

I do not think that the Trinity Doctrine should be a mystery because it is man-made.

What should seem to be a mystery is when the Word in the beginning became flesh (John 1:1,14) only some 2,000 years ago, and was the [another] Comforter, the Spirit of truth, after his resurrection (John 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7).

It appears to me that the book of John explains the embodiment of the "Godhead" in Jesus Christ.

On that basis, the expression "in the NAME of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost" is the same NAME as "in the name of Jesus Christ." And, no, I do not see any difference and the need for re-baptism.

I'm aware of Matt. 28:19 as the only passage that uses "in the name of..." in that manner. Again, it's the same NAME to me. It is SINGULAR -- ONE NAME. It does not say: (1) in the name of the Father; (2) in the name of the Son; and (3) in the name of the Holy Ghost.

Please note all the other expressions (the majority) in these passages [I've done my search in this order]:

  • Matt.21 [9] in the name of the Lord
  • Matt. 23 [39] in the name of the Lord
  • Mark 11 [9],[10] in the name of the Lord
  • Luke 13 [35] in the name of the Lord
  • Luke 19 [38] in the name of the Lord
  • John 12 [13] in the name of the Lord
  • John 3 [18] in the name of the only begotten Son of God
  • Acts 2 [38] be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
  • Acts 3 [6] In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth
  • Acts 4 [18] in the name of Jesus
  • Acts 5 [40] in the name of Jesus
  • Acts 8 [16] in the name of the Lord Jesus
  • Acts 9 [27] in the name of Jesus
  • Acts 9 [29] in the name of the Lord Jesus
  • Acts 10 [48] to be baptized in the name of the Lord
  • Acts 16 [18] in the name of Jesus Christ
  • Acts 19 [5] they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus
  • 1Cor 5 [4] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ
  • 1Cor 6 [11] in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God
  • Eph. 5 [20] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ
  • Col. 3 [17] in the name of the Lord Jesus
  • 2 Thess. 3 [6] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ
  • Jas. 5 [10] in the name of the Lord
  • Jas. 5 [14] in the name of the Lord


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.1.37

Re: Restoration Views on Godhood

September 25 2012, 1:06 PM 

Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,

giving thanks to God and the Father
by him.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.36.192

In the name of Jesus

September 25 2012, 11:02 PM 

Your observation that numerous verses express "in the name of Jesus" does give support to baptizing more in the style of Acts 2:38; as opposed to the statement in Matt. 28.

The statement of Matt 28:18-20 is used almost universally--however, the statement that the results would be remission of sins and gift of the Holy Spirit borrows from Acts 2:38 to produce a hybrid expression.

Previous generations tended to leave out "gift of the Holy Spirit" but "remission of sins" was mentioned.

It is my understanding that D. Lipscomb and Wm. Lipscomb stated that God gave remission of sins in baptism, although they felt that this did not need to be mentioned previous to the baptism.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.1.37

Re: Restoration Views on Godhood

September 25 2012, 11:29 AM 

Truth has absolutely no relationship to what we or they do: the only thing a disciple of Christ can discus is what He taught. He claimed ALL authority of "father, spirit (mother) and son" which is the ANTITHESIS of all of the pagan triads.

Name is under the AUTHORITY of NAME (singular) and everyone baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ. Maybe the "birth" of any trinitarian thought was when people baptized in THREE NAMES and consistently baptized THREE TIMES. I watched Ivan the Terrible baptized head first three times when he was an infant. See what that will do for you. happy.gif

I think that it is a fact that too many people are baptized to get listed in the preacher's book and it may take decades to be CONFIRMED as a disciple of the one whose NAME you are baptized.


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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