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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.1.37

Here is some Thomas

September 25 2012, 12:13 PM 

Thomas Campbell Circular Letter

http://www.piney.com/HsAcCircle.html

"Again, it is a query with others, who profess to hold this doctrine, whether the relative terms Father, Son and Spirit, be real or economical. To this we would reply, that if we allow the Holy Scriptures to speak at all intelligibly upon this most profound and sacred subject,
.....we must understand the above appellation as declarative of real internal essential relations,
.....independent of any external work or economy whatever.

"For if the terms Father, Son and Spirit, be not declarative of real or essential relations, that is, of relations that have their foundation in the divine nature, and essentially or necessarily belong to it as such,
.....the Scriptures do not reveal to us three distinct characters so related;
.....but three distinct independent divinities or Gods, necessarily self-existent, and absolutely independent of each other; each and every one of them possessing the self-same properties, and of course, each of them so exactly the same in all respects, as to be absolutely undistinguishable one from another, by any means, property or attribute whatsoever; and, of course, three eternal self-existent independent coexistent Gods; each of them infinitely complete or perfect in and of himself, as possessing every possible perfection of being.

"A supposition this, not less repugnant to our reason than to the most express and unequivocal declarations of Holy Scripture, for the divine characters are constantly represented as coexisting in the most intimate and inseparable unity of essential relationship..

"And that, therefore, in the mean time,
.....we ought to reject as unscriptural,
.....all invocations or forms of address immediately directed to the Holy Spirit,
.....as innovations in the worship of God, who alone has a right to prescribe both the matter and manner of his own worship, even of that worship which he will be graciously pleased to accept as right and pleasing in his sight. (Memoirs of Alexander Campbell, Vol. 1, pp. 539-555. Thomas Campbell's "Circular Letter")


This is the REPUGNANT view of John Mark Hicks speaking for Lipscomb University.

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Hicks.Rochester.html




 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 25 2012, 8:58 AM 

"Mortal men decided which books would comprise the biblical canon."

Mortal men maybe.....but don't think for one minute that God did not direct these mortal men in the compilation of these books. Therein lies the problem. It is complete but so many other people want to add books like Enoch and the book of mormon. God has protected and will continue to protect His Word. The additional books of Enoch and of mormon is not needed to tell about the salvation of Jesus and get the story out about how God has dealt with His people and enemies. Everything in the present 66 books is more than sufficient.

I agree with B in that he or anyone else would be sinful to add to the Word by labeling instruments, that are used to accompany and aid singing, as sinful....where God has not.

 
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B
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74.179.249.56

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 25 2012, 4:31 PM 

Some would argue that the apostolic epistles are not needed to tell the world about the Gospel, because the four Gospels are sufficient. We don't need the Book of Mormon, because the Bible does not quote from it. As far as I know, the Bible also does not quote from the Apocrypha, so we don't need that, either. But the Bible DOES quote from the Book of Enoch, so... go figure.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.249.56

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 25 2012, 5:00 PM 

Actually, it is sinful to ADD instruments where God has only authorized and specified vocal music, but where He has not also authorized and specified instruments. Remember the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command (NATNTF). Since God specifies vocal music, then we may neither add instruments to that command nor may we take vocal music away and substitute instruments. God need not specify everything that violates His specific directives, because the NATNTF command takes care of that. In the face of the NATNTF command, if you STILL say it is "sinful" to condemn what God does not, you ignore the NATNTF command because of your personal desire to have instruments. That's as much as saying, "God didn't say not to have instruments, so condemning them is sinful." That philosophy is NOT found anywhere in the New Testament.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.1.37

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 25 2012, 12:59 PM 

I thought I told you that God COMMANDS instruments. Yea, He FORCES people to OUT themselves as a way of ESCAPE.

[linked image]

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.36.192

Functions of the Spirit

September 25 2012, 5:53 PM 

Here are four translations of John 14:26.

John 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you. KJV

26But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you. ASV

26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. NIV, 1984

26But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representativethat is, the Holy Spirithe will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you. NLT

Are any of the following correct in light of this passage?

A. The written word must be supplemented by the Advocate, the Holy Spirit.

B. Although we know the written word, we must depend on the Spirit to help us make decisions.

C. The Holy Spirit brings us toward the written word, and as a result to our salvation.

D. The Holy Spirit simply eliminates forgetfulness of the written word, and although we might know it thoroughly, the Spirit prompts us to remember it.

E. The Holy Spirit has produced the written word, and our remembrance is triggered thorough familiarity with the word.

F. Familiarity with the written word creates a new person within us, and that produces an unfailing compass by which we deal with all of life's decisions.

 
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Anonymous
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130.127.42.38

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 25 2012, 7:06 PM 

"In the face of the NATNTF command, if you STILL say it is "sinful" to condemn what God does not, you ignore the NATNTF command because of your personal desire to have instruments."

Not sure what to make of all that NATNTF stuff.....but it would have gone over well at the democratic convention a few weeks ago in Charlotte. Lots of double speak....

If you add a sin to the Bible that is not there, then you are adding to the Word of God.

Simple enough for you?

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.77.49

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 25 2012, 8:42 PM 

If you add that which is NOT commanded and sow massive discord you PRETEND that you are God. The church is built meaning EDUCATED on the Prophets and Apostles both of who radically condemn any of the GENDER-MARKED performances which spits in the face of Jesus now The Holy Spirit who comes to give us REST from the silly singing sisters.

The Spirit OF Christ spoke both inclusively and exclusively about the future REST from presumptious people who think that Christ's silence is THEIR supernatural power to SPEAK.

[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.24.7

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 25 2012, 9:46 PM 

The sin lies in adding more to a command than what God specifies within that command. That's the whole basis for the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command (let's abbreviate that as the NATNTF command).

Simple enough for you?

Example: If you add instrumental music when God only specifies vocal music, you add to the Word of God; hence, you sin. Don't you know that, given the NATNTF command, it is redundant and unnecessary for God to list every conceivable item that would violate His commands? Yet that's what the change agents demand when they say, "Condemning instrumental music is a sin because God didn't say not to have instrumental music." Actually, instrumental music IS SINFUL, based on the NATNTF command. The change agents just don't want to abide by it. They demand that God write in the Bible, "Thou shalt only have vocal music, but not instrumental music, in Christian worship."

God doesn't jump when the change agents bark.

 
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a/the spirit of Racnor
(no login)
98.81.112.142

Can "B" handle SIMPLE?

September 26 2012, 7:21 PM 

"The sin lies in adding more to a command than what God specifies within that command. That's the whole basis for the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command (let's abbreviate that as the NATNTF command).

Simple enough for you?

Example: If you add instrumental music when God only specifies vocal music, you add to the Word of God; hence, you sin. Don't you know that, given the NATNTF command, it is redundant and unnecessary for God to list every conceivable item that would violate His commands? Yet that's what the change agents demand when they say, "Condemning instrumental music is a sin because God didn't say not to have instrumental music." Actually, instrumental music IS SINFUL, based on the NATNTF command. The change agents just don't want to abide by it. They demand that God write in the Bible, "Thou shalt only have vocal music, but not instrumental music, in Christian worship."

God doesn't jump when the change agents bark."

**************************************

God did not condemn IM, "B" did.

BTW, "B" is the one doing the A&W barking.



 
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B
(no login)
98.87.23.83

The Simple Test

September 27 2012, 11:41 AM 

Actually God, not B, condemns instrumental music by virtue of the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command. It should be SIMPLE for discerning Christians to realize that God need not list everything conceivable that violates His commands. When God issues a command and specifies what is to be done, adding more to that command or taking from that command is sinful. Since God specifies vocal music and stops there, then people sin when they ADD instrumental music.

On the other hand, the change agents and other rebels will say, "No, God MUST specify everything by name that He condemns, or it doesn't count. If God doesn't SAY that instrumental music is sinful, then it's not." That man-made philosophy is not found in the New Testament, it ignores the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command, and it tries to make God conform to man's personal demands. God's neither-add-to-nor-take-from command saves Him the trouble of listing everything conceivable that violates His commands. We know that God chooses to condemn some things directly, as in, "Thou shalt not kill." We also know that, through the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command, God issues a general condemnation of things that are added to or taken from what He specifies within His commands.

Here's the simple test: Do you follow the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command and use only vocal music that God through Paul specifies in Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16, or do you snub that command and sin by adding instrumental music?

 
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Ghost of Rocnar
(no login)
98.81.112.142

Re: The Simple Test

September 27 2012, 12:30 PM 

'use only vocal music'

***********

Did God say that? Is this yet another case of "B" speaking for God?


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.12.133

Re: The Simple Test

September 27 2012, 2:37 PM 

Does God specify any other kind of music besides vocal music? No. Therefore, God specifies ONLY vocal music.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.12.133

Re: The Simple Test

September 27 2012, 2:46 PM 

Whether Rocnar is a ghost or not, I really don't think he wants to follow the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command. If denominationalists are bent on having instrumental music, then they reject that command.

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.112.142

Re: The Simple Test

September 28 2012, 4:41 PM 

"B" relates the "neither-add-to-nor-take-from command" to Deuteronomy (4:2) and Revelation (22:18-19). I am a bit surprised "B" would use an OT reference. So I guess Psalm 150 is fair play. The inspired writer says:


Praise the Lord.
Psalm 150


1 Praise the Lord.


Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.
2 Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.
3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.


6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.

Praise the Lord.


"B's" other reference comes from the book of Revelation. We are warned to not add or take away from this book. This means the Harps in Heaven cannot be removed from this book as some have it.

God approves of IM. God did not condemn IM, "B" did.



 
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ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.82.227

Theophilus to Autolycus Inventor of Trinity

September 26 2012, 1:54 PM 

Theophilus to Autolycus Inventor of Trinity

http://www.piney.com/Theophilus.Autolycus.II.html

was the first to use the word TRIAS. Scholars thought of God, His Word and His Wisdom or Spirit as personae in that we can be described in terms of body, soul and spirit. Yet, personae did not mean that their were THREE GODS as taught by latter day scholars who would make God pretty deranged. This was the "formula" used at Nicea which did not treat The Holy Spirit on the same level of God the Father and Jesus Christ His Lord or ruler.

[linked image]

 
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Anonymous
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130.127.42.38

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 26 2012, 2:38 PM 


"God doesn't jump when the change agents bark."

Agreed!


He also has a place besides heaven for those who add to His Word.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.204.47

Re: Who will NOT be in "My Fathers House" Grace Centered Forum

September 26 2012, 9:43 PM 

Yes indeed, God doesn't jump when the change agents bark. So, why does Dave still want God to jump because Dave supports having instrumental music? Dave should be very careful NOT to add to God's Word by adding instrumental music when God only specifies vocal music. In other words, Dave should be sure that he observes the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command. If Dave would add instrumental music, then he doesn't follow that command.

I'm very glad Dave realizes that there is indeed a place far away from heaven for those who add to God's Word by failing to follow the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.82.121

Theophilus Part Two

September 26 2012, 9:26 PM 

People who are consumed with what WE GONNA do in making music simply do not and probably cannot grasp that Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within us and does not come with RELIGIOUS OBSERVATIONS.

http://www.piney.com/Luke.17.Kingdom.Not.Observation.html

strong delusions are marked by lying wonders which are specificially religious observations of rhethoric, singing, playing instruments and drama. Since music from mystery MEANS "making the lambs dumb before the slaughter" and "silencing the voice of the victim" that INVISIBLE MUSIC word is the MARK that people are not going to understand Monotheism since they themselves try to fill the role of God in Christ as the ONE Comfoter- mediator.

Since Theophilus INVENTED the word "trias" or trinity one wonders how people can INVENT a trinity which gives THEM access to A Holy Spirit Person who leads them "beyond the sacred pages."

Of course, they cannot do that without repudiating Jesus of Nazareth as God's Master Teacher and leader into the spiritual world.

Theophilus Chapter XXII.-Why God is Said to Have Walked.

You will say, then, to me: "You said that God ought not to be contained in a place, and how do you now say that He walked in Paradise? "Hear what I say. The God and Father, indeed, of all cannot be contained, and is not found in a place, for there is no place of His rest;
.....but His Word, through whom He made all things, being His power and His wisdom,
.....assuming the person of the Father and Lord of all, went to the garden in the person of God, and conversed with Adam. For the divine writing itself teaches us that Adam said that he had heard the voice.
.....But what else is this voice but the Word of God, who is also His Son?

Not as the poets and writers of myths talk of the sons of gods begotten from intercourse [with women], but as truth expounds, the Word, that always exists, residing within the heart of God. For before anything came into being He had Him as a counsellor, being His own mind and thought.

But when God wished to make all that He determined on, He begot this Word, uttered,47 the first-born of all creation, not Himself being emptied of the Word [Reason],
.....but having begotten Reason,
.....and always conversing with His Reason. And hence the holy writings teach us, and all the spirit-bearing [inspired] men, one of whom, John, says,
....."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,"
..... showing that at first God was alone, and the Word in Him.
.....Then he says, "The Word was God; all things came into existence through Him;
.....and apart from Him not one thing came into existence."
.....The Word, then, being God, and being naturally
.....[That is, being produced by generation, not by creation.]produced from God
,
whenever the Father of the universe wills,
.....He sends Him to any place; and He, coming, is both heard and seen,
.....being sent by Him, and is found in a place.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:
.....and the word which ye hear is not mine,
.....but the Fathers which sent me.


note 46 The annotators here warn us against supposing that "person" is used as it was afterwards employed in discussing the doctrine of the Trinity, and show that the word is used in its original meaning, and with reference to an actor taking up a mask and personating a character.

note47 Proforiko/j, the term used of the Logos as manifested; the Word as uttered by the Father, in distinction from the Word immanent in Him. [Theophilus is the first author who distinguishes between the Logos (cap. x, supra) and the Logos proforiko/j; the Word internal, and the Word emitted. Kaye's Justin, p. 171.]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 166.248.82.121 on Sep 26, 2012 9:41 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.82.121

Re: Theophilus Part Two

September 26 2012, 11:08 PM 

[linked image]

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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