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B
(no login)
74.179.246.7

Re: Home at Last!

February 28 2013, 9:29 AM 

Option 3 simply believes in the concept of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit without trying to categorize and complicate them further into separate "Trinity" entities or a three-in-one entity. The line between options 1 and 2 are so fine that it's just best to use option 3.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Home at Last!

February 28 2013, 10:33 PM 

I agree that categorizing the Godhead complicates the issue.

The best solution is to discard the papal-ordained "Holy Trinity" doctrine which teaches that there is the "Holy Spirit" [third] PERSON who is also "God." It is a fallacy in this Triad concept that the rest of Christianity [non-Catholic] has embraced. But yet the rest of Christianity [non-Catholic] does not embrace the other Triad fallacy -- the Father, the Son and the Virgin Mary, the "Mother of God."

Eliminate the pagan-influenced, Catholic-based Trinity Doctrine. Be willing to start from scratch. It is not in Scripture.

The Godhead is scriptural. It is simple.

The Father is the Holy Spirit {"God is [fully] a Spirit" and is wholly holy). Would anyone argue that? Yes? No?

When the Word [who was in the beginning with God] was made flesh, Jesus Christ lived a human life. In his bodily form, he couldn't be that Spirit. But upon his resurrection from the dead, he was no longer human. In his divine nature, he became the promised "another" [no longer human] COMFORTER and the Spirit of truth.

It is really that SIMPLE: God the Spirit was manifest in the flesh, and when Christ was resurrected from the dead, he transformed into that SPIRIT form apart from his physical form.

That explains the nature of the Godhead -- it was all about the Father and the Son in all their relationship and communication. The Holy Spirit AS THE THIRD PERSON GOD was totally absent.

LESSON: Trust the Scripture-based "Godhead" -- the mystery of God MADE SIMPLE: it's all about the Father and about the Lord Jesus Christ. It's not even a matter of ANOTHER Holy Spirit in absentia. Why or why not? The passages that pertain to the Godhead DO NOT MENTION OR INCLUDE the "Holy Spirit." Period.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.248.173

Re: Home at Last!

February 28 2013, 11:16 PM 

Father, Son, Holy Spirit. That's it. Simple. Uncomplicated. No divisions. No categorizations. No subclassifications.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Home at Last!

March 1 2013, 12:02 AM 

Yes, simple as the one NAME is concerned: "in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." There is only one instance of the single name in that format in the entire Bible. And that was in the commission statement when Christ was still living with His disciples. It was not necessary for him to tell his disciples "in the name of the Father, Son and Me [again] the promised Comforter and Spirit of truth."

So, that was the only instance of the long name -- when Christ was in human form.

See if you can find the same name format after Christ's resurrection??????

The truth is that throughout the rest of the New Testament, it's all "in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Including the name associated with baptism in the conversion process.

The "Holy Spirit" is part of the ONE NAME -- but the NAME does not create or prove a third person in the Godhead.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.204.80

Re: Home at Last!

March 1 2013, 12:32 AM 

You're still worrying about it and making it much more complicated that it is. It's still very simple: Father, Son, Holy Spirit, just like Jesus said. No divisions. No subclassifications.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

The Godhead Is Really Simple

March 1 2013, 12:58 AM 

Let the Scripture simplify it all for you.

Colossians 2:2,9 -- "That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the MYSTERY OF GOD, and of THE FATHER, and of CHRIST; ... For in him [CHRIST] dwelleth all the FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily."

When you ADD a third, distinct person God in the Godhead, you have a problem.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.210.99

It's Still Very Simple

March 1 2013, 2:13 AM 

Since the Godhead is spirit, it cannot be a physical person or persons. You have a problem when you complicate matters beyond Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yep, it's still very simple. BTW, Jesus gave two synonymns (not subclassifications) for the Holy Spirit: Comforter and Spirit of truth.

Jesus mentioned Father, Son, and Holy Spirit/Comforter/Spirit of truth in John, but Paul in those two passages in Colossians omits mention of the Holy Spirit in the Godhead. Not to worry. That's similar to those New Testament passages that deal with faith alone as a requirement for salvation but don't mention baptism, repentance, confession, and other requirements for salvation. That's why you can't base doctrine entirely on a brief passage or two.

Yes, the Godhead is a mystery. That's why we shouldn't complicate matters beyond Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

It's Still Very, Very Simple

March 2 2013, 1:03 AM 

B,

It's all in Colossians 2:2,9. SIMPLE.

I did not write Colossians 2. But to you the passage is not there. If it's there to you, you ignore or reject it.

It boils down to you believing that there is really a SEPARATE, THIRD PERSON GOD. As for me, my understanding of the Godhead or its mystery is made clear in Colossians 2. It is also made clear to me when I read and STUDY Romans 1:1-20. I think a non-believer who reads and studies those passages can know and understand that there is NOT ANOTHER GOD-PERSON in the Godhead.

There's nothing wrong with what Jesus mentioned. In reference to the "Holy Spirit," it is no different from B making a statement: "When I [B] die, only my human body dies, but my soul or spirit lives on. Needless to say when that happens, I am still B -- only no longer in human form." That's the part that confuses you to no end. The same can be spoken of Christ: upon his resurrection, he was no longer in human form, thus, his being the Comforter and Spirit of truth -- that was promised of/by Himself.

Paul was not contradicting Christ at all. You just think that. Sorry. But he explained the mystery TWICE -- in Romans and in Colossians. The book of John also is clear -- about the Father and the Son Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh. God the Father is a Spirit and HOLY at that. Jesus Christ is that Comforter and Spirit of truth. Adding ANOTHER SPIRIT PERSON in the Godhead is your prerogative -- which is no different from the papacy-ordained Trinity dogma.

I'll leave it at that. Hopefully, my discussion with you in regard to the Godhead as clarified by Paul in Romans and in Colossians and by John 1:1,14 and in chapters 14-16 ... is over.

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.21.126

Re: It's Still Very, Very Simple

March 2 2013, 2:36 AM 

Nothing more can be said, because Jesus said Father, Son, Holy Spirit. That's the Godhead. That's it.

I gather you finally realize the absolute and utter futility of debating the Godhead any further with anyone on this board. It is time to move on to something else.

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.23.18

Re: It's Still Very, Very Simple

March 2 2013, 12:23 PM 

But then, I think that you really don't want this futile debate about the Godhead to end. Somehow, you feel a ... need ... to continue with it. You feel ... enraptured ... if you can keep hammering at it. happy.gif

====================

Please STOP it, B.

I let you have the last word [for which you are known] -- you should have keenly observed that. Now it is obvious that you wanted another "last word."

I have no desire to discuss this particular subject with you any longer. And you do not dictate what this message board should be discussing.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Mar 2, 2013 5:20 PM


 
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B
(no login)
98.87.23.96

Re: It's Still Very, Very Simple

March 2 2013, 8:21 PM 

Donnie, it seems I've hit quite a nerve with you by just telling the general readers that it's futile to "debate" the Godhead. And what's with you and this bit about the "last word"? If, as you said, you had really wanted me to have the last word (I am touched), which I couldn't care less about, you would not have responded as you did. By doing so, it looked as though YOU wanted the last word. BTW, Dave had also thought I wanted the "last word" whenever I rebutted his posts, because Dave always thought his view was the entire world's view. You're not thinking like Dave, are you?

Based on your recent comments, Donnie, I infer that you really do not want me to offer any kind of "different" or "opposing" viewpoint to yours about the Godhead. I've simply said the Godhead is what Jesus said: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yet you seem to take offense at that and would have YOUR view dominate and shine. So instead of this being an "open" board, where we may express our differing views, I get the feeling that it has become a fascist board, where different views or those that make you uncomfortable are not welcome. And that, my friend, is NO WAY to run a board.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

... an execution device (cross) around their neck?

March 2 2013, 11:46 AM 

When Catholics verbalize as they make the "sign of the cross," they're declaring that there is the THIRD PERSON or member or being according to the Trinity Creed -- invented by the RCC/papacy.

That [Trinity] creed is contrary to what the Scripture says about the "mystery of God" -- the Godhead is simply explained in John 1:1,14, Romans 1; Colossians 2. It is also referred to as the "mystery of Christ" (Eph. 3:4; Col. 4:3).

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and TRUTH." (John 1:1,2,14)

"For IN HIM [the Word made flesh, Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the FULNESS of THE GODHEAD bodily." (Colossians 2:9)

Let's not make Paul a prevaricator because he did not mention or concoct ANOTHER PERSON OR BEING in the Godhead.

Keyword is "FULNESS" -- it is not less; it is not overflowing or excessive -- simply FULL.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.165.40

Re: ... an execution device (cross) around their neck?

March 2 2013, 6:26 PM 

We have all noticed the terrified rush to deny the name and authority of Jesus Christ. Some want to remove the name of CHRIST from their confession and add FAMILY OF GOD. Others hear a spirit tell them to take CHRIST out of their confession.

People twist the so-called baptismal formula and hang on it like the horns of the altar knowing that if they let go they will burn.

There is ONE God the Father
And ONE Son whom God MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ.

John said that those who deny the Father - Son relationship are called ANTI-Christs. That is why they cannot read the dozens and dozens of texts which prove that JESUS CHRIST the Man is the universal Spirit of the Universe (not a people). That is why they CANNOT read and confess. If you call God a person rather than personae then there can be no redemption.

[linked image]

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
174.130.211.139

Re: Divination and Lectio Divina of the Ignatian Retreat

February 27 2013, 9:21 AM 

Yes an Act! Makes you wonder when they will get to the realty of Christianity.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.170.113

Re: Divination and Lectio Divina of the Ignatian Retreat

February 27 2013, 1:20 PM 

The Spirit of Christ may have spoken to all ages of PRIESTHOODS but it certainly fits the sudden and violent infiltration and diversion of most Bible-based groups. Most would certainly hesitate in manifesting these signs unless they were certain that the very quite history could be given birth. You will find a 'mother' figure in these takeovers.

[linked image]

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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