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"WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

September 14 2012 at 1:01 AM
ConcernedMembers  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 99.177.249.211






WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST


JOHN WADDEY



John tells us that at one point many of Jesus' disciples went back and walked with him no more (John 6:66). The Bible uses several different terms to describe the act of a Christian turning away from the Lord and his Cause. Among them are "falling away" (I Tim. 4:1), false brethren (Gal. 2:4), "going onward and abiding not in the teaching of Christ" (II John 9), "being entangled in sin and overcome" (II Pet. 2:20). In our commong language we use the words "apostasy and backsliding."

Some turn back to their old life of sin and wickedness. Peter likens them to pigs that had been washed clean, turning back to the muddy mire of their pig pen and to dogs eating their own vomit (I Pet. 2:22).

Some turn away to sullen bitterness and despair. This often is the result of some great disappointment, some bad experience in life or with fellow-Christians. They did not get the desired answers to their prayers. They felt abandoned by God or perhaps betrayed by fellow-Christians. Their faith was blighted and they turned away from God. Jude describes them as "wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever" (Jude 13). Such lost souls are to be pitied.

Some turn away to embrace competing denominational churches and beliefs. They have lost their sense of attachment to Christ and his one beloved church, yet they don't want to be counted with atheists and infidels. They want the social benefits of a church family and the respectability of being called "religious." So they seek out an alternative church that better suits their personal wants and desires. Some liberal preachers follow this shameful path in hope of finding employment.

Some become bitter enemies of Christ's church and devote themselves to slandering and attacking her. Not all who turn back are content with simply walking away. Their love turns to hatred. Men who once served Christ and his church with zeal and devotion, now spend their waking hours plotting and scheming against her. They do every thing, in their power to discredit and destroy that which they once labored to promote. Such conduct is the ultimate folly. How can finite man hope to prevail against the infinite God. How can his puny words hope to win against the powerful word of Jehovah that created and will one day destroy the universe (II Pet. 3:7-10). All such labor is shameful and fruitless. The ruin will be theirs, not God's.

Some apostates linger in the midst of our brethren and seek to subvert and undermine the church and lead disciples away with them (Acts 20:29). During the Civil War, Southern sympathizers living in the Northern states were called "copperheads." They were likened to the dreaded copperhead snake whose mottled brown color allows them to hide until their unsuspecting prey is within striking range. Such false brethren are often found lurking in Christian schools where as teachers they have access to young Christians whose faith they can easily subvert. They especially work on young preachers, preparing them for destructive rather than positive work in the church.

Some have become rank unbelievers, renouncing God, the Christ, the Scripture and Christianity in general. I have encountered a few cases of men who once served as preachers of the gospel, who later abandoned the whole of Christianity to embrace anti-Christian atheism.

The author of Hebrews wrote, "For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Heb. 6:4-6), They have made themselves the hateful enemies of Christ. Their hearts are so bitter that they cannot be brought to repentance. They are like a field that receives God's refreshing rain and yet brings forth only thorns and thistles. Like the farmer occasionally burns off the unwelcome briars, so Jehovah will destroy those apostates with the fire of judgment (Heb. 6:7-8). Such turn-coasts will rue the day they turned on their Creator and Savior. Unbelievers will have their place in the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev. 21:8).

Whatever their course of action, those who turn away from Christ and his church must understand that only those faithful unto death will receive the crown of life (Rev. 2:10). With their names stricken from the book of life, all the rest can only look forward to the eternal misery of hell (Rev. 20:15; 21:8). JHW

"We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case the one who turns back the soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pigheaded and refusing to admit a mistake." (C.S. Lewis).



___________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: johnwaddey@aol.com

 
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Donnie
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"Some apostates ... lead disciples away with them"

September 15 2012, 2:10 PM 

Brother John pointed out above: "Some apostates linger in the midst of our brethren and seek to subvert and undermine the church and lead disciples away with them (Acts 20:29)."

John has this say in another article, "Common Criticisms of the Church of Christ":

Anyone or any organization that aspires to do some constructive and beneficial for humanity can expect a barrage of criticism from those pathetic souls whose only ambition is to discredit what others are doing.

The Lord's church is no exception. From her beginning she and her workers have endured the insults and slanders of the world. Joining the sinners of the world have been those counterfeit churches that are incensed by those who seek to be Christians and nothing more. It used to be that these hateful criticisms came only from those outside the church. Today, it is common to hear those same complaints and criticisms uttered by apostates within her ranks, oft referred to as change agents. [emphasis mine, DC]

 
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Ken Sublett
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Re: "Some apostates ... lead disciples away with them"

October 23 2012, 5:06 PM 

In my little discorded church in the wildwoods (Hohenwald) the elders cam back from manipulators determined to carry out the restructure program. I had the privilege of watching a elder melt down because three of us were tying the New Testament study to the Prophets. He didn't know that the church was built (educated) upon the Prophets and Apostles. That is why he fell into the PLANNED PLOY but was stopped by some adult members. They grew the church from about 350 attendees to less than 200 quicker than you can say "teach that which has been taught." Max Lucado was the MENTOR of the returning prodigal from ACU.

Hesiod Works and Days

http://www.piney.com/DocHesWorks.html


Hes. WD 194 Thereafter, would that I were not among the men of the fifth generation, [175] but either had died before or been born afterwards.

For now truly is a race of iron, and men never rest from labor and sorrow by day, and from perishing by night; and the gods shall lay sore trouble upon them.
But, notwithstanding, even these shall have some good mingled with their evils.

[180] And Zeus will destroy this race of mortal men also when they come to have grey hair on the temples at their birth. [I.e. the race will so degenerate that at the last even a new-born child will show the marks of old age.]
.....The father will not agree with his children, nor the children with their father,
.....nor guest with his host, nor comrade with comrade;
.....nor will brother be dear to brother as aforetime.
[185] Men will dishonor their parents as they grow quickly old,
.....and will carp at them, chiding them with bitter words,
.....hard-hearted they, not knowing the fear of the gods.

Rumored: Even hold prayers that the old people would pass on or get out 'cause it's out time to rule.

They will not repay their aged parents the cost of their nurture,
.....for might shall be their right:
.....and one man will sack another's city.

A REAL sectarian or heretic is one person sacking another's church property.

[190] There will be no favor for the man who keeps his oath or for the just or for the good; but rather men will praise the evil-doer and his violent dealing.

Strength will be right, and reverence will cease to be; and the wicked will hurt the worthy man, speaking false words [muthoisin skoliois] against him, and will swear an oath upon them.

muthos 2. fiction (opp. logos, historic truth) 3. generally, fiction, m. idioi Phld.Po.5.5; legend, myth, plot of a drama

[195] Envy, foul-mouthed, delighting in evil, with scowling face, will go along with wretched men one and all. [200] And then Aidos and Nemesis,2
.....with their sweet forms wrapped in white robes,
.....will go from the wide-pathed earth
.....and forsake mankind to join the company of the deathless gods:
.....and bitter sorrows will be left for mortal men,
.....and there will be no help against evil.

2 Aidos, as a quality, is that feeling of reverence or shame which restrains men from wrong; Nemesis is the feeling of righteous indignation aroused especially by the sight of the wicked in undeserved prosperity cf. Psalms,lxxii. 1-19.

Let us hope that this is that final shaking as at Mount Sinai where God sentenced the musical idolaters back beyond Babylon. This was understood to mean "from there there is no return."

Hebrews 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Hebrews 12:27 And this word,
Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken,
as of things that are made,
that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

 
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Ken Sublett
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Re: "WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

September 15 2012, 6:43 PM 

I can't speak for those who claim the right to SOW DISCORD and cast people out of their own "synagogue" so that they can impose performance ceremonies always identified by the word "Hypocrite." However, Scripture always provides a way of escape. The fact that people FLEE even at the "worship team" level without knowing why they are so repulsed is explained by the fact that Religious performers both attract and repulse people. And that evil men"make a place in the civil mainstream for that which they know will drive away those not in on the scheme. In civil Greek Society of Lying Wonders.

IRONICALLY, proskunoimen an auton hs hieron kai thaumaston kai hdun, Pl.R.398a:

Plato. Republic [398a] who was capable by his cunning of assuming every kind of shape and imitating all things should arrive in our city, bringing with himself the poems which he wished to exhibit, and we should send him away to another city, after pouring myrrh down over his head and crowning him with fillets of wool


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Scripture
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Latitudinal Views in Churches of Christ

October 19 2012, 1:25 PM 

Every religious group has several persuasions in its membership.

1. Some are "hard right."

2. Others are sympathetic of the hard right but prefer to be quiet.

3. Some don't agree with the hard right, but prefer things to stay the same, for harmony's sake.

4. Some don't believe any of these issues are important, but helping the poor and improving one's spiritual life is paramount.

5. Some are "change agents" and want to push the church right along.

6. Then some are revolutionary and want total change.

All in all, the love of Christ must prevail. Change has taken place in Churches of Christ for its history but many times it was slow and with less controversy. In our particular era, individuals within the Churches of Christ as well as those in other churces are brought into a "virtual" congregation, and so ideas flow fast and furious. This change "slow change" with confrontation and sometimes open hostility.

These difference underscore the importance of renewing our knowledge and application of the Scriptures.

 
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john watson smith
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Keys in the scripture we should follow

October 20 2012, 8:13 PM 

Consider the strategy laid out in the Bible to assist us and keep us close to God

In Psalm 1 we are directed to meditate on the word of God "day and night". This should eliminate the constant digging into the ideas of men day and night as one would do in graduate studies in "theology".

In Psalm 119 we are directed to meditate all the day long and that Gods ideas is that testimony. How much room is there in an average day for studying the ideas of confused and misled men?

I Tim 4 the Spirit directs all who will be effective in teaching the word to meditate upon and give oneself to Bible ideas entirely. Not much room to study for that denominational scholar.

Taken as a whole, we need to focus our study and service based on the word of God as if we were searching for a great treasure. See Proverbs 2 which states that this diligent search is rewarded by understanding the fear of the Lord and finding the knowledge of God.

When we read the digressive views of some we know what they have not been doing - they have not been searching the word of God but have bathed in the deep water of mens ideas!

Comments Welcome

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: Keys in the scripture we should follow

October 20 2012, 9:20 PM 

Well, it looks like what is called "worship services" has been carefully crafted to make THINKING or MEDITATING impossible. When the "worship leaders" claim to cause you to WORSHIP they are saying that by giving ALL of our brain-cell attention to their body, actions and sounds that CAUSES you to give attention to God. Now, who is ready to deny that we are aliens and have really (REALLY) landed on the Planet of the Apes?

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding,
.....shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren,
.....whatsoever things are true,
.....whatsoever things are honest,
.....whatsoever things are just,
.....whatsoever things are pure,
.....whatsoever things are lovely,
.....whatsoever things are of good report;
if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.


log-izomai

Where would they get their meditating or thinking resources?

Philippians 4:9 Those things,
.....which ye have both learned,
.....and received, and heard,
.....and seen in me, do:
.....and the God of peace shall be with you.

Yes, I know the Chimpoinds will insist: but Paul didn't say NOT to do and think what the Great Pretenders preach and sing. They are correct of course.

 
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Scripture
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1 Timothy 4

October 20 2012, 11:13 PM 

These are good words, as you say,

1 Tim4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, 2through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron; 3forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by them that believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5for it is sanctified through the word of God and prayer.

6If thou put the brethren in mind of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished in the words of the faith, and of the good doctrine which thou hast followed until now : 7but refuse profane and old wives fables. And exercise thyself unto godliness: 8for bodily exercise is profitable for a little; but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life which now is, and of that which is to come. 9Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation. 10For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe. ASV


 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: "WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

October 21 2012, 3:08 PM 

It is amazing that Paul identifies seducing demons and the NON-ELECT (not baptized into) lie like demons and tell the lambs that the Bible says NOTHING against their fall into performance to DELIBERATELY silence that which they get paid to teach but and which they deny has any meaning for THEIR age. Their magic is so powerful that:

Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

In one way or another is probably being repeated. A sign includes:

smeia signal for battle, ta s. rth, katespasth, Th.1.49,63, etc.; kathairein to s. to take it down, strike the flag, as a sign of dissolving an assembly, And.1.36; to ts ekklsias s. Ar.Th.278;

Some ekklesias HAVE already STRUCK THE FLAG that they are closed for business.

[linked image]

 
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Anonymous
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Re: "WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

October 22 2012, 6:34 PM 

Demosthenes 19.[255] What we require, Aeschines, is not oratory with enfolded hands, but diplomacy with enfolded hands.

But in Macedonia you held out your hands, turned them palm upwards, and brought shame upon your countrymen, and then here at home you talk magniloquently; you practise and declaim some miserable fustian, and think to escape the due penalty of your heinous crimes, if you only don your little skull-cap,1 take your constitutional, and abuse me. Now read.

Solon's Elegiacs Not by the doom of Zeus, who ruleth all,
Not by the curse of Heaven shall Athens fall.
Strong in her Sire, above the favored land
Pallas Athene lifts her guardian hand.

No; her own citizens with counsels vain
Shall work her rain in their quest of gain;
Dishonest demagogues her folk misguide,
Foredoomed to suffer for their guilty pride.

Their reckless greed, insatiate of delight,
Knows not to taste the frugal feast aright;
Th' unbridled lust of gold, their only care,
Nor public wealth nor wealth divine will spare.

Now here, now there, they raven, rob and seize,
Heedless of Justice and her stern decrees,
Who silently the present and the past
Reviews, whose slow revenge o'ertakes at last.

On every home the swift contagion falls,
Till servitude a free-born race enthralls.
Now faction reigns now wakes the sword of strife,
And comely youth shall pay its toll of life;

We waste our strength in conflict with our kin,
And soon our gates shall let the foeman in.
Such woes the factious nation shall endure;
A fate more hard awaits the hapless poor;

For them, enslaved, bound with insulting chains,
Captivity in alien lands remains.
To every hearth the public curse extends;
The courtyard gate no longer safety lends;
Death leaps the wall, nor shall he shun the doom
Who flies for safety to his inmost room.

Ye men of Athens, listen while I show
How many ills from lawless licence flow.
Respect for Law shall check your rising lust,
Humble the haughty, fetter the unjust,

Make the rough places plain, bid envy cease,
Wither infatuation's fell increase,
Make crooked judgement straight, the works prevent
Of insolence and sullen discontent,
And quench the fires of strife. In Law we find
The wisdom and perfection of Mankind.

Solon

 
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Scripture
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What Demosthenes may be saying

October 23 2012, 12:02 PM 

My comments to Demosthenes are in brackets [ ] . These are my interpretations of what the poem says. The poem supports development of law across time. Law can mean from our perspective, either scripture, useful tradition, or consensus.]

Demosthenes 19.[255] What we require, Aeschines, is not oratory with enfolded hands, but diplomacy with enfolded hands.

[Oratory is singular, with those hearing subject to one person's views. As such it is unlawful in itself, since there is no consensus, but is one man's opinion. Diplomacy, on the other hand, results from the consensus of several who write law [in our case Scripture].

But in Macedonia you held out your hands, turned them palm upwards, and brought shame upon your countrymen, and then here at home you talk magniloquently; you practise and declaim some miserable fustian, and think to escape the due penalty of your heinous crimes, if you only don your little skull-cap,1 take your constitutional, and abuse me. Now read.

[I think the previous paragraph insults those moderns who are pretentious and view those of a simpler nature with condescendingly.]

Solon's Elegiacs Not by the doom of Zeus, who ruleth all,
Not by the curse of Heaven shall Athens fall.
Strong in her Sire, above the favored land
Pallas Athene lifts her guardian hand.

[Pallas Athena may have been a statue of Goddess Athena that would take care of Athens.]

No; her own citizens with counsels vain
Shall work her rain in their quest of gain;
Dishonest demagogues her folk misguide,
Foredoomed to suffer for their guilty pride.

[Their gods of the Athenians do not need punish but vain citizens are punished by their own greed and vanity.]

Their reckless greed, insatiate of delight,
Knows not to taste the frugal feast aright;
Th' unbridled lust of gold, their only care,
Nor public wealth nor wealth divine will spare.

Now here, now there, they raven, rob and seize,
Heedless of Justice and her stern decrees,
Who silently the present and the past
Reviews, whose slow revenge o'ertakes at last.

[ Greed for wealth, injustice, legal and illegal robbery brings its own revenge on its agents--those that abuse the community of others. Justice and judgment will be slow but will eventually come home to roost. The power and size of the society cannot overcome this judgment.]

On every home the swift contagion falls,
Till servitude a free-born race enthralls.
Now faction reigns now wakes the sword of strife,
And comely youth shall pay its toll of life;

[A faction or clique creates the disorder and strife, and those younger who would inherit the culture shall instead reap only the disorder and confusion. The inheritors shall lose their inheritance, and those loss shall extend to every household.]

We waste our strength in conflict with our kin,
And soon our gates shall let the foeman in.
Such woes the factious nation shall endure;
A fate more hard awaits the hapless poor;

[Internal strife of the community weakens all learning and tradition, such that a foreign power invades and brings to naught the community. Damage reaches down to the poor.]

For them, enslaved, bound with insulting chains,
Captivity in alien lands remains.
To every hearth the public curse extends;
The courtyard gate no longer safety lends;
Death leaps the wall, nor shall he shun the doom
Who flies for safety to his inmost room.

[Holy traditions and positive culture lose their autonomy. Alien thoughts rule the day, and Christians, for example, fall once again under the curse of Popery and servitude, with creedalism.]

Ye men of Athens, listen while I show
How many ills from lawless licence flow.
Respect for Law shall check your rising lust,
Humble the haughty, fetter the unjust,

[Respect for law and tradition can stop this unfortunate march, and with repentance and reflection, the trend can be reversed.]

Make the rough places plain, bid envy cease,
Wither infatuation's fell increase,
Make crooked judgement straight, the works prevent
Of insolence and sullen discontent,
And quench the fires of strife. In Law we find
The wisdom and perfection of Mankind.

[Envy and covetousness for the temporary must cease. Return to the written word. The written word transcends the immediate and contemporary, since it has survived the generations, and would not be passed on if it did not have the stamp of authenticity, that is proof of its reliability and faithfulness. The unfortunate alternative to lawful tradition, is the dominance of contemporary infatuation, which will disappear with the wind, after unbinding citizens from the assurance that comes through law.]

Solon

[Solon is a member of a legislative body. it is natural that this person would write such a poem that supports rights under law.]



 
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ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.81.32

Re: What Demosthenes may be saying

October 23 2012, 12:46 PM 

Good take: it's too bad that you can get your preaching permit without reading 101a in both the whole Bible and the literary context in which Scripture was written as the ANTITHESIS of what is now called "progressive."

Make the rough places plain, bid envy cease,
Wither infatuation's fell increase,
Make crooked judgement straight, the works prevent
Of insolence and sullen discontent,
And quench the fires of strife. In Law we find
The wisdom and perfection of Mankind.


People organize new sects just to blame those shot in the heart for bleeding all over their dancing slippers. Blaming people who refuse to BEGIN using instruments when they have never used instruments in recorded history for being DIVISIVE for refuting those who IMPOSE instruments and drive you out of your church home and family, is also a truly Satanic act of psychological violence. Anyone who would break up a happy group just to make a place in the decent mainstream for those who have always attracted but disgusted seekers, is also a MARK of dominant females or effeminate males: history is universal in saying that going from SPEAK or SAY to SING and PLAY including slick rhetoric is both the mark and cause of the gender confused.

The CROOKED RACE speaks of the male symposia.

Isaiah 40:4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
Isaiah 42:16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.
Isaiah 45:2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
Isaiah 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
Lamentations 3:9 He hath inclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked.
Luke 3:5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;




 
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Robert
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129.71.204.146

Re: "WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

November 17 2012, 1:03 PM 

My name is Robert,

As I said in another post I made on a related site, I am not a member of the Church of Christ, and am considering attending. What I did not say on that site is that I am trying to find out where Jesus wants me to be. I have a question to pose to this man about his views toward other Christians he obviously sees only as vile apostates worthy of the fires of hell. Who made you God? You use Gods word interchangeably, jumping from old testament to new, with the purpose of condemning people without knowing anything about their hearts. Who gave you the right to do that? Who's name do you do that in?

 
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Ken
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ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.70.114

Re: "WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

November 17 2012, 2:08 PM 

You should understand that a Disciple of Christ is a student of the Word and should never depend on other people. For instance, down through history the Church of Christ has been "apostolic" meaning that its only task is to be a Disciple of The Word as it was first spoken.

Other people deny that Scripture has any authority because THEY live in another time. They think of things they can do on Sunday and try to get other people under their own teachings.

Just because a Person says, like Rick Warren that BAPTISM DOES NOT SAVE and all of the Bible says 'BAPTISM SAVES YOU" BAPTISM WASHES AWAY SIN. BAPTISM GIVE YOU A HOLY SPIRIT SO YOU CAN BE A DISCIPLE, Doesn't make that person a judge of their destiny.

Lots of people try to make you believe that "if you teach what the Bible says you are sentencing those who don't believe to hell."

A Christian is a Disciple of Christ and a Disciple of Christ is a STUDENT of Christ. Those who refuse to be a disciple of Christ cannot force those who are disciples to not say anything against their false teachings. This is important when there are so many people claiming that they get their messages from a holy spirit person.

Rubel Shelly:

http://www.piney.com/HsIndwFaithMatters.html

"In the Old Testament God spoke at many times and in a variety of ways.

Through Jesus, God Himself spoke to His people during His lifetime.

Now God speaks through the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will teach you all things,
will call to your memory the things Jesus said,
will guide you into all truth,
will speak what He hears from the Father,
will tell you what is yet to come,
and glorify Christ as He reveals Christ to you.


Such people want YOU to believe that THEY are now in charge because YOU think that a spirit person reveals NEW truth to these teachers.

Just be a Disciple of Christ and do not depend on anyone else. Read what people have to say, think about it and then decide whether he is speaking from the Spirit which is in the Word of Christ or whether you think you should dump God and Jesus and trust the preacher.



 
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Anonymous
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Re: "WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

November 17 2012, 11:24 PM 

Robert,
If you hang around long enough....you want hang around long. It is a sad sad place.

====================

Robert may ask Dave Fields, author of the above assertion, for more info.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Nov 17, 2012 11:36 PM


 
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Re: "WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

November 18 2012, 12:15 AM 

Dave may think this site is "sad" (because he hasn't been able to shut it down), but he's been hangin' around here grindin' and gnashin' his teeth for YEARS. He is indeed quite comical. happy.gif

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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