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Ken Sublet
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.6.52

Re: Is Doing Good Works a Factor or Necessary in Conversion?

December 1 2012, 10:48 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.116.206

Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 2 2012, 2:51 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Who Is ... "Saved by the Blood of Jesus"?

December 2 2012, 3:55 PM 

(1) EVERYONE in this world (unconditionally)?
-------------- or -----------------
(2) Anyone who believes ONLY (has faith)?
-------------- or -----------------
(3) Anyone who believes AND [a conjunction} is baptized?

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.219.116

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 2 2012, 5:43 PM 

Rocky's picture and the title of his post imply that Jesus saved everyone on earth unconditionally, whether they believe in Him or not. The New Testament teaches nothing of the sort. Jesus laid down some specific requirements for salvation, which are summarized and discussed in the lead post in the thread "Christ's Requirements for Salvation."

 
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Ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.1.112

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 2 2012, 8:08 PM 

Hebrews 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
Hebrews 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast,
.....and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;
.....which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,
.....and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Hebrews 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles,
.....and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
Hebrews 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Hebrews 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying,
.....What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man,
.....that thou visitest him?
Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels;
..... thou crownedst him with glory and honour,
.....and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet.
.....For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.
.....But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
.....crowned with glory and honour;
.....that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Hebrews 2:10 For it became him,
.....for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory,
to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth [baptized] and they who are sanctified are all of one:
.....for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


John identified Jesus Christ the Righteous as THE HOLY SPIRIT COMFORTER Who does NOT guide us beyond the sacred pages.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
.....And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, [The Holy Spirit]
.....Jesus Christ the righteous:
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins:
.....and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


MANY are called or invited to accept that free gift but only few (a tiny, almost invisible) are chosen: that is you invite ALL of the fish to get caught but MOST of them will be Suckers and Carpers and they will not be CHOSEN.

Baptism is accepting the invitation to attend the SCHOOL OF CHRIST with A holy spirit (ours) required to hear the Spirit speak in the Word.
It would be silly to think that College is founded for EVERYONE and you thought that you could do brain surgery (preach) just because the training has been made for the whole world. It would be GRACELESS and UNKIND for God to save the masses of the world or KOSMOS for whom Jesus won't even pray. Or the WISE or SOPHISTS (rhetoricians, singers, instrument players, actors) from whom God HIDES HIMSELF. People don't CHOOSE to turn school of the Word into a Theater for Holy Entertainment: God abandons anyone who hints that they are not guided by the Word which is the INTENDED and revealed resource for the Christian Discipline: disciples do not do "worship services" thinking they can appease God so He will say "such a gay fella art thou."

1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him,
if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him,
.....and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar,
.....and the truth is not in him.
1John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word,
.....in him verily is the love of God perfected:
.....hereby know we that we are in him.
1John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk,
.....even as he walked.

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.116.206

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 7 2012, 10:41 AM 

We must never forget that our faith must rest in Jesus Christ alone.


All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives the forgiveness of sins through His name." Acts 10:43

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.12.205

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 7 2012, 12:02 PM 

Rocky the ONLY way to receive A holy spirit or A good conscience is to ask in the name of the Lord by BEING BAPTIZED. 1 Peter 3:21 says that BAPTISM SAVES. Rocky says that you can be saved by just believing the NAME of the Lord. Therefore, Conclusion, Rocky does NOT have A holy spirit or A good conscience (consciousness) which gives him the GIFT of being able to read BLACK text on BROWN paper.

The fact that Rocky is NOT PERMITTED to read the context of his proof text is in calling the Spirit of Christ in the prophets (Isaiah, Malachi) a LIAR.

Since Rocky says that Jesus taught something
And Jesus taught just the opposite.
Makes Rocky and all of the APISTOS (believeth nots, treacherous) guilty of BLASPHEMING the Spirit of Christ in the prophets and Apostles.

http://www.pinney.com/Jeremiah.23.CENI.html

Jer 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me,
.....The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace;
.....and they say unto every one that walketh
.....after the imagination of his own heart,
.....No evil shall come upon you.

Despise tthe Word of God:
Blasphmo , re, ak profanely of sacred things, eis theous Pl.R.381e; offer rash prayer


WHAT ACTS 10 SAYS AND ABOUT HALF OF THE "BAPTIST" (ALL OF THE CLERGY WITH NO ROLE AND NO DOLE) TWIST TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

Rocky Says: All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives the forgiveness of sins through His name." Acts 10:43

This does not say that they HAVE RECEIVED but RECEIVES. The KJV SAYS

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins

Believed or PISTIS means to COMPLY or it is not TRUST

Cornelius wanted to know what PETER had been told to be saved. Peter MUST obey the Command of Jesus:

Then Peter said unto them,
.....Repent,
..........and
.....be baptized every one of you
.....in the name of Jesus Christ
.....for the remission of sins,
.....and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Acts 10:35 But in every nation
.....[1] he that feareth him,
.....AND
.....[2] worketh righteousness,
.....[3] is accepted with him.

Peter did not say that everyone who believed HAS BEEN granted the RIGHT is saved.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness,
.....[A] that through his name
.....[1] whosoever believeth in him
.....[2] shall receive remission of sins.

Christ in Isaiah affiirms that those who BELIEVED our report OBEYED THE GOSPEL.

.....Ro.10:16 But
........they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith,
........Lord, who hath believed our report?

When the doubting Jews had been silenced, Peter told Cornelius what to do to be saved:
Acts 10:48
.....And he commanded them
.....to be baptized
.....[A] in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Rocky has called the Spirit OF Christ and the made more certain by Jesus Christ who connected OBEDIENCE in BAPTISM and the REMISSION OF SINS. Rocky's SALVATION leaves him still in his sins and without A holy spirit or the ABILITY to read the truth.

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.116.206

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 7 2012, 12:54 PM 



Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you.

++++++

Ken, I am a disciple who has been baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Can you say the same?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.12.205

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 7 2012, 1:13 PM 

Yes, about 70 years ago but I had to remove myself from the blather of songs and sermons which violate several direct commands before I learned how to read context and define words.

A holy spirit is A good conscience is an UNholy conscience washed clean.
A good conscience or consciousness means a CO-PERCEPTION. Paul told the Jews in Corinth that they had been BLINDED and made DEAF at Mount Sinai and would not be able to READ the word or HEAR the word until they converted or were baptized into Christ.

Many (most) are called but Few (almost nil) are chosen or become the ELECT. A disciple is a student of the word and reads the text with understanding and does not try to filter out or filter in dogma. The PURPOSE is to preach the word by reading the word and meditating on it. That text conveys the Spirit (mind) of Christ but only if you do not try to make null other passages.

Being baptized is not for "salvation" in the punched-card sense. Salvation means remission of sins joining a SAFE HOUSE with ONE PIECE TO THE WORSHIP PATTERN. The Lord's Supper is to show forth or TEACH the death of Christ. If you confess that they you are obliged to let Him do the thinking, speaking and mediating.

Salvation is FROM the Crooked Race meaning the "drunk on wine" or Skolion singers of paganism.

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.116.206

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 7 2012, 2:35 PM 



Ken, does "CO-PERCEPTION" equate to "gift of the Holy Spirit"?

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.16.120

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 7 2012, 5:52 PM 

I believe that if one has an UNholy spirit and god removes UNholiness then one has A holy spirit. THEIR spirit is made HOLY.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come,
and hath given us an understanding,
that we may know him that is true,
and we are in him that is true,
even in his Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God, and eternal life.

http://www.piney.com/Alexander.Campbell.Earnest.Spirit.html

This is...understood by every attentive reader. The original phrase is hagiasmos pneumatos, and is found only in II. Thess. ii. 13; I. Pet. i. 2. In both places it appears to refer to the sanctification of the spirit of believers. It is literally rendered "sanctification [or holiness] OF spirit."
.....There is no article in the original
.....and no epithet that suggests the Holy Spirit in either passage.
God has chosen men to salvation through (or by) holiness of spirit;
.....not through the holiness of HIS Spirit,
.....but through the holiness of THEIR spirit.

When Jesus prayed (John xvii.) for the sanctification or holiness of his disciples,
.....it was through the truth: "
.....Sanctify them through the truth;
.....thy word is truth."
The belief of the truth is, therefore, by Paul associated with this holiness or sanctification of spirit.

The Spirit of God is frequently denominated in these days, "the Sanctifier." Let it be granted that it is the Spirit that sanctifies or sets apart men to God, still it must be argued from the Record that he sanctifies them only through the truth or gospel believed.
A sanctified unbeliever is inconceivable;
..... and, as "without holiness [or sanctification OF spirit] no man can see the Lord;
.....so, without faith, there can be no holiness, and no action acceptable to God.

All persons sanctified to God to any high office or function, were anointed, and thus consecrated to his special service. So all Christians, being priests,
.....are anointed or sanctified by the Holy Spirit
.....[135] through the obedience of the truth,
.....and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus,
.....cleansing THEIR consciences from dead works to serve the living God.


That does not mean that you receive ADDITIONAL inspiration but God permits you to read the text. God HIDES from the wise which can only mean that just accepting His condition to be washed, He lets you read the text. Paul shows in 2 Corinthians 3 that the Jews could not READ or HEAR the text until they turned (were converted or baptized) into Christ. Believers are CLOTHED or "hidden away" in Christ and can "go boldly before the throne of Grace. The revealed writings were hidden below the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.30.174

Repentance and Remission of Sins

December 8 2012, 10:09 AM 

Acts 2:38 connects repentance (change in mind and reformation as well) with baptism, remission of sins, and gift of the Holy Spirit.

Repentance wraps back into a "clear conscience" which is clarified by faith in Christ, whis gives us confidence or assurance (see Romans).

Transformation of the mind is a necessary part of salvation.


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.205.231

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 7 2012, 2:23 PM 

We must never forget that in order to be saved, we must obey Jesus' directives. Without obedience to Him, there is no salvation. So, if we really believe in Jesus, we will do EXACTLY everything that He tells us to do.

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great" (Luke 6:46-49 KJV).

In other words, Jesus is telling us that if we're not content to obey Him, then don't bother calling on His name; don't even bother to call Him "Lord." Those who obey Him will be saved; those who do not will fall into eternal ruin, which is damnation.

It's as simple as that.

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.16.120

Re: Saved by the Blood of Jesus

December 7 2012, 6:23 PM 

People don't grasp that people who inhabit the earth are not of the same kind. For instance, Cain was of that wicked one and Paul said that Eve was "wholly seduced."

The Cainites did NOT go away in the flood.

While Jesus died for everyone, He said that he would not even pray for the WORLD or Kosmos which is well defined

He said that God HIDES from the wise, sophists meaning all of the theatrical performers who can't resist rewriting true history to make it say what THEY would have done.

Jesus spoke to the multitudes only in Parables. He said that truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the World. Christ in Isaiah 48 says that was to keep the merchant class blind and deaf.

Now, if God HIDES from the SOPHISTS that means that He DOES NOT HIDE from people who who GLADLY RECEIVE HIS WORD without hesitation.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Those who receive the WORD don't argue
If they received His Word they were baptized.
Only those who were baptized were added to the Church by Christ.

Acts 2:47 praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to them day by day those that were saved.

Those who were baptized were added
Those who were being saved were added
Since we give no room to "silence" we can conclude that those

Who were NOT baptized were NOT added
Who were NOT saved were NOT added.

Those who do NOT have A holy spirit or a Co-perception cannot understand a simple sentence.

For example to PROVE the absolute truth.

Paul said Speak to one another with Psalms
singing and making melody in the heart to God.

Without A holy spirit they LITERALLY see that as

Paul said SING to the leader with Twila Paris
Singing and making melody UPON A DRUM to the audience.

Isn't God good!



 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Is Doing Good Works a Factor or Necessary in Conversion?

December 4 2012, 12:53 PM 

B said "Rocky's picture and the title of his post imply that Jesus saved everyone on earth unconditionally,..."


The title of the picture is "Saved by the Blood of Jesus." By the picture and the title you, B, are in error....again. It suggests no such thing.....and you know it. That is you, B, just you being negative again. You have a knack for incorrectly analyzing what others say. You just deride and slander what others imply...only to suit your needs. Hey B, what does that picture show anyway? Several thousand people going to Jesus by the way of the cross? Several thousand isn't "everyone," is it? happy.gif You also said that the picture implied that "Jesus saved everyone on earth unconditionally." How else are they to get to Jesus, other than by the way of the cross? happy.gif


Donnie, who am I?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.4.189

Re: Is Doing Good Works a Factor or Necessary in Conversion?

December 4 2012, 1:16 PM 

Jesus didn't die on a gold-plated CROSS which is and ancient symbol of paganism. Jesus died on a TREE and in fact a Stake. This was the Phallic Symbol to prove that the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites meaning speakers, singers and instrument players had MUSICALLY MOCKED Jesus as prophesied in Revelation 41.

The Pipers tried to get Jesus to bend over and sing or lament and dance the "ouchy" initiation of the Old Wineskinners. Having failed, they pinned Him to an Asherah Pole.

You can try to approach on the cross but MY Savior was not Triumphed over (outlawed music for the synagogue) and HE arose from the dead. We approach Jesus ONLY in the Tomb example by "Obeying that form" and only THEN being free from sin.

The Cult of the Cross wants you to see Jesus pinned to a paling.

The Cross tried to identify Jesus whom God made to be both Lord and Christ as a CRIMINAL to get their LAST shot before the "covenant with death and hell" was destroyed--unless you follow the Jewish pattern of the worship of the starry host with instruments STILL trying to crucify Christ because in BELIEVER'S or Baptist baptism he MUST die for them personally just like the MASS.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.12.157

Re: Is Doing Good Works a Factor or Necessary in Conversion?

December 4 2012, 5:34 PM 

Dave should know that many people believe that all they have to do to be "saved" is to "invite Jesus into their hearts as their personal Savior" through the so-called "Sinner's Prayer"--and that's it. They do not believe that they must repent of sins, confess Jesus as Lord before mankind, be baptized for remission of sins, and live a life according to Jesus' teachings in the New Testament. When Dave tells people how to be saved, is he like the Baptists, who just tell people to say the "Sinner's Prayer" and that takes care of it, or does he tell people all of Jesus' requirements for salvation: hearing the Word, believing the Word, repenting of sins, confessing Jesus as Lord, being baptized for remission of sins, and living a Christian life according to Jesus' teachings?

We can only follow the way of the cross if we do exactly as Jesus has commanded us, and He has certainly laid down some specific requirements for salvation. If we do not follow them as specified, then we will NOT be saved. Many people erroneously believe that the way to the cross is simply through the Sinner's Prayer. The New Testament tells us otherwise. Apparently Dave does not know that, and yet he claims to be an "elder" in his church. That is indeed a pitiful situation.

If Rocky believed all of Jesus' requirements for salvation, then he would have found a picture that incorporated all of those requirements. Instead, his picture implies that Jesus just opens His arms and saves everyone--believer and unbeliever--unconditionally through the cross.

Perhaps Dave should realize that Jesus does NOT save us unconditionally--He definitely has conditions/requirements for salvation. Therefore, it is imperative that Dave review the lead post in the thread "Christ's Requirements for Salvation." He then will be much better informed to teach people about salvation.

 
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Ken Sublettt
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.6.183

Re: Is Doing Good Works a Factor or Necessary in Conversion?

December 4 2012, 6:19 PM 

Dave just believes what he has been mistaught. The FIRST command was to make disciples of believers by BAPTIZING and TEACHING what He commanded to be taught until He returns. NOTHING said after than can be used to mean FAITH ONLY. Maybe they are just "wresting Scripture to their own destruction."

It seems beyond the pale for the best of scholars to grasp that a disciple is a STUDENT. Now, Christ prophesied and Jesus commanded a way for ANY INTERESTED PERSON to join His School of the Word by following the normal proselyte or adoption process. Let Him wash away our sins ONLY when we obey His condition for simply RECOGNIZING an INTERESTED person.

Dave believes with the MANY that he can become a Student of Socrates by simply believing that Socrates existed. If a person simply wants to be a worshiper or ceremonial legalists then they have no interest in becoming a Disciple of the Spirit of the whole universe through Jesus through whom He speaks. That's fine: Baptists and some of the "missional" churches of Christ (not) make you subscribe to a covenant not to oppose the Baptist dogma. For instance, you could not be PERMITTED to join Dave's church as a fully-fledged teaching member without subscribing to what Dave believes. And yet, he thinks that you can be a STUDENT of Jesus without agreeing to the Covenant condition.

For, we have been saved by faith
For (what I mean to say is that) those who have been baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ. They are now Robed with Christ without which they CANNOT go boldly into the Holy Place.

Donnie has done his trick about prepositions: baptized FOR the remission of sins CANNOT mean because of remission. That trumps Dave etal.

Now, he may have to speak about the word FOR.

Paul could have said 'you are saved by faith' without adding that FOR to BLIND those who are NOT of truth or of faith.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Is Doing Good Works a Factor or Necessary in Conversion?

December 5 2012, 12:53 PM 

Ken, where do you see a gold-plated cross? Yes, Ken, that is a TREE! How is your sight these days? That is a light hue Covering the top of the cross, but it is NOT to be mistaken for being gold-plated.

Looking means taking your blinders off.
Hearing is no good if you don't listen.

Whatever B..... You two are as close to as unreachable as there is. However, I haven't given up hope.

Matthew 19
26Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.13.218

Re: Is Doing Good Works a Factor or Necessary in Conversion?

December 5 2012, 1:40 PM 

Only GOLD allowed in Church (from CIRCUS): no bloody stakes allowed.

stauros , ho,
A. upright pale or stake, staurous ektos elasse diamperes entha kai entha puknous kai thameas Od.14.11, cf. Il.24.453, Th.4.90, X. An.5.2.21; of piles driven in to serve as a foundation, Hdt.5.16, Th.7.25.

II. cross, as the instrument of crucifixion, D.S.2.18, Ev.Matt.27.40, Plu.2.554a; epi ton s. apagesthai Luc.Peregr.34; s. lambanein, arai, bastazein, metaph. of voluntary suffering, Ev.Matt.10.38, Ev.Luc.9.23, 14.27: its form was represented by the Greek letter T, Luc.Jud.Voc.12.
b. pale for impaling a corpse, Plu.Art.17.


No, the preachers are wrong: Paul never said "I will only PREACH Jesus and Him crucified: He said that I will KNOWN only a crucified Jesus. He defined that as GO into all of the world, suffer and die. The preachers with a gold cross behind or in front of them do NOT choose to GO and suffer and die.

They lie: if they preach only a "crucified Jesus" they could do that on coffee break and not blather out of his own head telling everyone about ME and playing the BUFFOON. Playing the BUFFOON is the mark of God pouring out His Wrath.

[1315] who made a grimace as behoved a well-bred man like him. The old man called to him, "Hi! tell me then what you have to be proud of? Not so much mouthing, you, who so well know how to play the buffoon and to lick-spittle the rich!" In this way he insulted each in turn with the grossest of jests,

[1320] and he reeled off a thousand of the most absurd and ridiculous speeches. At last, when he was thoroughly drunk, he started towards here, striking everyone he met. Wait, here he comes reeling along. [1325] I will be off for fear of his blows.


parasi-tus , i, m., = parasitos, lit. one who eats with another; hence,

parasiti Jovis, the gods, parasitus Phoebi, a player, actor, Mart. 9, 29, 9.--

one who, by flattery and buffoonery, manages to live at another's expense, a sponger, toad-eater, parasite Comically, of a whip that he will make his elm-twigs stick to me like parasites, i. e. give me a sound flogging, The tutelar deity of parasites was Hercules

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

G3473 mrologia mo-rol-og-ee'-ah From a compound of G3474 and G3004 ; silly talk, that is, buffoonery:foolish talking


The INSTRUMENT PLAYERS who performed EXORCISM during the slaughter of innocent animals which God considered as murdering a man were called PARASITES in all sacrificial systems as the PATTERNISM for the progressives.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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