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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.113.233

"Tract Happy"

December 14 2012, 1:59 PM 

"B", you just can't trump reading the Bible in context. I'm not sure where you are going with this. Will you be writing a "creed" in the future? happy.gif


 
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B
(no login)
74.240.211.247

Re: "Tract Happy"

December 14 2012, 3:04 PM 

Is Rocky implying that he happily prefers tracts? Hmmm... All tracts that teach about salvation must be compared with what is written in the New Testament. If a tract says that we are saved ONLY by faith, then the uninformed will be led astray if they do not search the New Testament to learn ALL of Jesus' requirements for salvation: hearing the Word, believing the Word, repentance, confessing Jesus, being baptized for remission of sins, and leading a Christian life in obedience to ALL of Jesus' teachings. A tract that correctly summarizes and explains these requirements is an excellent teaching tool that encourages the uninformed to search the New Testament for confirmation.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.8.86

Re: Is Doing Good Works a Factor or Necessary in Conversion?

December 14 2012, 2:55 PM 

The CONTEXT is in prophecy and in the DIRECT COMMANDS of Jesus which were understood by Peter and Paul and ALL historic scholars before Zwingli, and modern unbelievers, equated righteousness by faith to REMISSION of Sins, REgeneration and being ADDED to the School of Christ: Washed in water INTO the Word or into the school of Christ.

Isolated passages peak to people who WERE saved by being added to the Body of Christ. Paul cycles through the LOGICAL PROCESS (not legal steps) which anyone can understand: you cannot HEAR without someone to SPEAK. You cannot BELIEVE until you HEAR. Paul goes through ALL of the logical PROCESS one goes through moving from one who is LOST to one who is SAVED including saved from that CROOKED RACE.

The CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD, contrary to Max Lucado does not mean "looking up and saying hay God." Here are a few parallel statements:

[linked image]
[linked image]


 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.33.252

Lord and Christ

December 14 2012, 10:11 PM 

Belief or faith, repentance, confession, and baptism are all in Acts 2, but maybe not in the order that we habitually think it to be.

"This same Jesus whom you crucified, God hath made both Lord and Christ," said Peter.

When the multitude heart this they said, "Men and brethren, what must we do?"

Their response indicated that they accepted what Peter said about Jesus being both Lord and Christ (ruler and savior).

They were expressing their faith although perhaps immature, and confessing that faith in Christ, in the Walter Scott tradition.

Still, they needed to repent. Since they had already accepted that Jesus was "Lord and Christ" and apparently had some "sorrow" they still needed to accept their guilt and to seek forgiveness. The fact that they implicitly accepted the blame for the crucifixion, or maybe had "changed their mind" about this deed, full repentance included turning in a wholesale way from every sin. This turning away includes reformation as well as repentance. Repentance and reformation are an ongoing process but acknowledging initial faith and confession that Jesus is Lord and Christ, is the place to start, since growing faith and continuing confession helps us to make more perfect our reformation.

Then they were to be baptized.

Confession does not end with baptism, but it is necessary in the Christian walk, since we can deny Christ in our decisions and activities every day, as we stand up for Christ and his word.

Repentance and confession continue to be part of the Christian life, particularly after baptism.

Faith continues to grow from the time we are babes in Christ, as we put on a full understanding in walking the Christian path.

We could say that repentance and confession are repeatable. Faith is accumulated as we grow into Christ.

Baptism is once.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Lord and Christ

December 15 2012, 1:37 AM 

Well said, Scripture!
Belief or faith, repentance, confession, and baptism are all in Acts 2, but maybe not in the order that we habitually think it to be.

. . .

They were expressing their faith although perhaps immature, and confessing that faith in Christ, in the Walter Scott tradition.

I specially quoted the above [a portion of your entire post] because you mentioned the word "confession." If one carefully analyzes the scenario in Acts 2 (which should make a good presentation of "the steps" to salvation, i.e., since they're all there), it should be apparent that even without the literal mention of "confession," it is a part of the entire process of conversion.

The fact that after hearing the proclamation in Acts 2:36-38 by Peter of Jesus being made "Lord and Christ" by God, the conversion prospects believed. (It may take a while for one to be persuaded and accept the truth that Jesus is "Lord and Christ." Maybe not.) But in the case of those in Jerusalem who heard that "Jesus is Lord and Christ," that in itself was a confession, although not verbalized [as we would like to hear it].

Keep in mind that it is Jesus Christ whom we CONFESS. (There are numerous passages in the New Testament that support this assertion.) In Jerusalem, it was Jesus as "Lord and Christ" that was preached. The Christians-to-be responded to that declaration: "Jesus is Lord and Christ." Whom should one CONFESS? Christ, of course!

Even in Romans 10, the correlation between believing and confessing Christ is evident. In verse 9: (a) confess the Lord Jesus and (b) believe in thine heart. In verse 10: (a) believe and (b) confess.

"Upon the CONFESSION of your faith in Christ" is what we often hear from the baptizer. The subject responds with a "yes." So, that's how we are to interpret: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus..."?

It should be evident that when one submits to be buried with Christ in baptism, he has already fulfilled all the other requirements, including the CONFESSION OF SINS -- often a "neglected" requirement.

What's often neglected at baptism is the unspoken declaration that one is buried with Christ in baptism:

(1) In order to [designed and purposed] receive forgiveness of sins;
---------------- and -----------------
(2) For the unholy spirit of man WHOSE SPIRIT is to be made HOLY -- the gift of holiness, refreshing and a clear conscience. [And this is NOT the 3rd "Holy Spirit" person of the man-made Trinity doctrine. This "gift of having a spirit made holy" does not make one a Pentecostal or Charismatic.]

Just a reminder: we're still dealing with the CONVERSION PROCESS. But I'm in complete agreement that AFTER CONVERSION: faith, repentance and confession CONTINUE to be necessary in Christian living -- this time including DOING GOOD WORKS. (I plan on developing a chart on "The Tenses {Past, Present, Future) of Salvation."

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Acts 2:38 vs. Acts 3:19: Resolved

December 15 2012, 10:14 PM 

Acts 2:38 -- "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for [eis: UNTO]the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

----------------------- PARALLELS -----------------------


Acts 3:19 -- "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

Conversion directives specified in both passages:

1. Repent |--------------------| Repent
2. Be Baptized |---------------| Be converted


Eventual benefits expected in both passages:

1. Unto remission of sins |----| That your sins may be blotted out
2. Gift of the holy spirit |---| Times of refreshing come from...


One simple solution to two issues: (1) reason to be baptized and (2) if the "gift" is the "Holy Ghost" ... is in the pronouncement at baptism:

"Upon the confession of your faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, you are now to be baptized:

(1) So that your [past] sins will be forgiven in the blood of Christ;
(2) So that you will receive this gift -- your [un]holy spirit will be made HOLY ... you will be refreshed ... you will have a clear conscience.
"


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.9.233

Re: Acts 2:38 vs. Acts 3:19: Resolved

December 15 2012, 10:43 PM 

Houston! we have a problem up here. You have read it AS IT IS WRITTEN. And yet close to 100% of christianism will call you a liar and insist that the text says no such thing. If I ever lacked absolute faith it is the fact that almost none can read BLACK text on BROWN paper. Whatever the level of scholarship those PROFESSIONALISM because of persona or skill in rhetoric or singing or playing or acting and spending their entire preacherhood traveling around as in the words of Ezekiel "prophesiers stealing words from one another" CANNOT GRASP IT. You can get beyond redemption.

You don't have to get it all correct. However, a disciple is a student (only) of the Word (only) of Christ (only). Because of the almost violent response from the "conservatives" I almost believe the promise to send Strong Delusions to those who do not love the Word: that is PROVABLE in any court of law by how many obey the direct command to PREACH the Word by READING the Word. That is "a salvation issue" because God doesn't give anyone liberty to enhance or further expound his word.

This is another BLACK text on BROWN paper which the masses cannot read:

1Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to [public] reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.


The pattern from the synagogue onward was that the doctrine was contained within that systematically read Scripture.

1Timothy 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy [teaching>, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Meditate or meletae is close to MELOS which is the melody in a "tuneful sense."

1Timothy 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


That PATTERN can be imitated in any community as taught by the Campbells and the doubtful disputations or private opinions (Romans 14) can be left at home so you can "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning."

But, your simple parallel perhaps CANNOT be grasped by those deluded because they tampered with the Word.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.122.210

Leaving the Church Behind

April 22 2013, 11:47 PM 

When I see Churches of Christ adopting Rick Warren and his "sinner's prayer" my mind drops back 500 years to Luther.

Luther and his Lutherans eventually adopted "Jesus Alone, Faith Alone, and Grace Alone." This is when the great mistake was made. These 3 alones undermine baptism and the Lord's Supper. The church becomes an afterthought, with no real resources to offer anybody, since all the salvation is taken out of the church's possession and given to the anarchist individual.

Thus, Rick Warren says that faith alone saves you, but you "join" the church to make an open admission, or something like that.

I notice that all his scripture references are footnoted, but the scriptures "footnotes" are in the appendix, way down in the back. These scripture would look like "scribbling" to his readers, so to make it palatable, he moves them to the back.

He wears that long shirt either to hide his belt, or to draw attention away from being overweight, or maybe is it because he wants to present an "international" image, to appeal to even more people to spend $50 for his course. Just a little more, and he'll have as much as the $58 that Mike Murdock wants from you!

We do sympathize for him in losing his son.

By the way, he advises people in his sessions not to bring alcoholic beverages, since they might offend those who are "weak in faith."

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.122.210

Church Mega-Corporation

April 23 2013, 8:28 AM 

Even as we have been warned by many of the dominance of modern American life by corporate America, so we need to be watchful that religious mega-corporation that wish to dominate church life.

To make church life a matter of dollars, to create real-time frenzy's and fads. To simplify religious thought systems, with long histories of development, which if weakened are sure to return anyway.

But to strip Christian people of in-depth Biblical knowledge, and sell it for a dollar.

"Blessed are the poor [in Spirit, adds Matthew] for theirs is the kingdom of heaven [Luke].

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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