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Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 13 2012 at 10:47 AM
Dave Fields  (no login)
from IP address 130.127.42.38

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptism.Does.Not.Save.html

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

About Salvation
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works only by trusting in Jesus Christ as Gods offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sins penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.

About Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

1. It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

2. It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

1. Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

2. Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

3. The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

1. Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

2. At Saddleback, we wait until our children are old enough to believe and understand the true meaning of baptism before we baptize them.

==============================

NOTE:

1. ConcernedMembers wanted to give credit to the poster Dave Fields, instead of "Anonymous."

2. ConcernedMembers included the above quoted statements in blue from the Saddleback website -- they were too important to be missing.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 174.228.64.214 on Nov 17, 2012 3:58 PM


 
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AuthorReply
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Does Dave Believe That One Is Saved First and Baptized Later?

November 14 2012, 1:32 AM 

Dave,

The Saddlleback salvation dogma consists of numerous fallacies. Let's discuss and refute each of these doctrinal errors as time permits.

For now, I'd like to point out a couple of faulty assumptions:

(1) The Saddleback way has a way of unscripturally partitioning salvation from baptism.

(2) The sinner's prayer does not have to be verbalized in those exact words as in the example given earlier. The point remains the same: that the Saddleback's teaching of "ONLY believe and thou art saved" is equivalent to "I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and ... right now I am saved."

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.36.34

Attack on two fronts--music and baptism

November 14 2012, 10:09 AM 

The Grim Reaper is knocking at the dooor.

Although a sizable majority of Madison's membership hold baptism in a more scriptural way, the error is within the gates--the Trojan horse.

With full knowledge of this error, the Shepherds have given the film series such that the membership must cope with it at the personal level. Watch out, Madison, you have now a two-front war--music and baptism.

Surely there was some better way forward than this film series!

The "sinner's prayer" while mocking Biblical baptism, let's salvation ride on the back of prayer and confession.

Prayer and confession can be considered "works", but so can baptism! But prayer, confession, and baptism are not works of merit, and this is the whole difference.




 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Baptism

November 14 2012, 7:01 AM 

For readers who are unaware out there, Donnie took my original message and edited it (put in items that I did not) and made it what he wanted it to be.
That isn't just untruthful, it is sinful and shows a man unsure of himself. Everything that was added to my original statement was not in blue, which makes Donnie and this site......a scam.
Again, nothing new under the sun. It is what it is.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.242.232

Re: Baptism

November 14 2012, 1:58 PM 

I reviewed the Saddleback site, and what Donnie added to Dave's post is exactly what Saddleback states on its site. Yet Dave originally chose to omit that most revealing statement; hence, it was Dave who was not being truthful. Donnie was being truthful when he exposed more of Saddleback's philosophy about baptism. Dave pitched the Saddleback agenda, yet with his omission, he wanted us to think that Saddleback believes as we all do, which is not the case. Whereas we believe that baptism is absolutely essential for salvation, as the New Testament teaches, Saddleback believes that "Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith." Sure, Saddleback supports baptism, but Saddleback does not believe that baptism is absolutely essential for salvation.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.210.195

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 14 2012, 9:31 AM 

Since Saddleback said that "[e]ternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith," then Saddleback espouses the erroneous notion that baptism is not essential for salvation. Now why do you suppose Dave left that out of his post in "support" of Saddleback?

Dave squawked about being "truthful," yet he deliberately omitted revealing statements from a website to support his "point." Dave was deceptive. Dave was not truthful.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.3.29

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 14 2012, 2:44 PM 

Alexander Campbell agreed that the WORD is the SEED: if the seed is planted in good soil and the birds (demons) don't take it away, it will germinate and grow into a new plant and produce fruit. I planted Fescue and Red and White clover about a month ago: MANY will germinate but FEW will be saved over the winder. Many or Most are called but FEW are chosen: chosen means tested as by fire and they will not be ultimately saved unless they REMAIN FAITHFUL. If they teach and believe lies and say that God permits instrumental music when He denies that, they blaspheme the Spirit OF Christ and have no hope: God sends the to Babylonia defined in Revelation 17f and into the Lake of Fire.

Only those who have been baptized are given A holy spirit (theirs) or A good conscience, consciousness or a CO-perception. They have become DISCIPLES (not ritualists) of Christ and a Disciple is a STUDENT and does not make infantile and effeminate acts when Jesus Christ (the NOW Comforter) is our ONLY teacher when the Elders teach that which has been taught. Rick Warren is a Corrupter of the Word meaning "Selling the free Word of Christ at Retail. That is NOT a problem: that is the MARK that the Lamps have been removed from Christ's church MARKED by the performance preachers, singers and instrument players John and recorded history called SORCERERS: Why, they BURN witches as Joh affirms.

JAMES MAKES IT PERFECTLY CLEAR:

James 1:14 But every man is tempted,
.....when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived,
.....it bringeth forth sin: and sin,
.....when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

HE SAYS, THEREFORE, DONT BE STUPID.

James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above,
.....and cometh down from the Father of lights,
.....with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth,
t.....hat we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

BETTING does not mean that the SEED conceives by being BURIED, WATERED, AND RAISED TO A NEW LIFE.

John 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them,
.....I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger;
.....and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me;
.....and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

........John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
...........the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

HOW DOES THE FATHER DRAW PEOPLE OF FAITH OR OF TRUTH

John 6:44 No man can come to me,
.....except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
.....and I will raise him up at the last day.

How does the Father DRAW people to Him

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets,
.....And they shall be ALL taught of God.
.....Every man therefore that hath heard,
.....and hath learned of the Father,
.....cometh unto me.

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
.....and to all that are afar off,
.....even as many as the Lord our God shall call. [invite]

.......Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:
.........for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
.......1Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;
.........but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

THOSE WHO BELIEVE ARE NOT SAVED: THEY HAVE THE POWER TO BE SAVED:

Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort,
.....saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

How do you SAVE YOURSELF from this CROOKED RACE (The wine, women and Skolion songs--the new wineskinners)

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
.....and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Notice that they were not ADDED to them until AFTER they were baptized.

Acts 2:47KJV Praising God, and having favour with all the people.
.....And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Acts 2:47ASV praising God, and having favor with all the people.
.....And the Lord added to them day by day those that were saved
Acts 2:47NIV praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.
.....And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

No one SHOULD be Saved if they DENY The prophecy, example and command of Jesus Christ.
You can't even join a T-ball team if you THINK you can be a star because you BELIEVE in T-Ball


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 14 2012, 5:28 PM 

Concerned is not allowed to give credit to anyone if they choose to be anonymous. B (William Crump) and Donnie have already stated that the ip address isn't conclusive of one's identification.
Also, B stated "I reviewed the Saddleback site, and what Donnie added to Dave's post is exactly what Saddleback states on its site."

That is THE scam. If Donnie wanted to do what was right, then he would have posted a response seeking to offer more information, not editing anyone's post. A scam is a scam. This site is a scam.
happy.gif

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.21.92

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 14 2012, 7:59 PM 

Donnie caught Dave's deceptive omission about the Saddleback site, so now Dave is jumpin' mad about it and squeals "scam, scam!" Did Dave really think we wouldn't check out that site for ourselves to see if he told us the WHOLE story? Well, it turns out Dave DIDN'T tell us the WHOLE story after all. Dave was untruthful.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.252.179.235

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 15 2012, 12:21 PM 

Clement on Isaiah 1 sin the Dead Sea Scrolls and Baptism.

http://www.piney.com/FathClStromataI.html

All of the Bible and recorded scholarship before these LAST DAYS simply taught the Word about Baptism as it is printed on paper so that NO ONE can misunderstand.

The word PISTIS has a lot of meanings but NEVER "Faith only" or Raw faith. It can mean TRUST meaning "yes I will get in the only Life Boat and NEVER, EVER quibble or whine." In the literature it is always used to mean TO COMPLY. "I trust Aaron the banker and therefore I put my gold into his hands for safe-keeping." We have actual cases where mass wealth was transferred by Letters of Credit.

He that COMPLIETH and is BAPTIZED shall BE saved.
He that COMPLIETH NOT shall be damned.
That's exactly what the Spirit OF Christ said in Isaiah and the eunuch had a scroll probably identical to the one found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

If the eunuch had WHINED, he would NOT have been baptized.

All of the historic scholars said the same thing and defined adult baptism so that Alexander Campbell could call John Calvin a Campbellite.

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 174.252.179.235 on Nov 15, 2012 12:22 PM


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 15 2012, 4:50 PM 

When someone calls you out, proves that you and your information was/is false, as I did with B, Donnie, and this site, well....it hurts. What makes matters even worse is when they have been shown the truth, and instead of correcting their paths, they instead get vengeful, spiteful (gnash teeth), and just plain ole nasty. They attack the messenger. The best thing? They can attack me and anyone else they wish, but the Word of God can't be touched. The Truth is the Truth. ALWAYS! Praise God! Hallelujah!

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.24.216

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 15 2012, 6:02 PM 

Yes, we showed how untruthful Dave was with the Saddleback site, and now he's on a vengeful streak, gnashing his teeth and squealing blue blazes. How amusing! happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Just Who Is/Is Not Aligned with the Truth?

November 15 2012, 6:11 PM 

Dave Fields,

I shouldn't have to remind you that it is the change agents and you who've strayed away from the truth or teachings from the Holy Scripture that the church of Christ Jesus adheres to. Certain teachings of yours are not from the Word of God; therefore, you have not shown us the truth at all as you claim. Besides, you're the one going against the grain.

ConcernedMembers has no intention of attacking anyone personally. It intends only to expose the false teachings that are contrary to New Testament specifications for His church.

For your information, expect me to re-post your original message [YOUR OWN WORDS] which was NOT changed -- including your ACCUSATION: "YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again." Remember?

 
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Anonymous
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Baptism

November 15 2012, 6:18 PM 

November 13 2012 at 10:47 AM
(no login)
from IP address 130.127.42.38

Donnie mentioned that Rick Warren believes that the sinner's prayer is enough for salvation. Donnie said "CAUTION: Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA, formerly a Baptist pastor, teaches this sinner's prayer in order for the sinner to be saved."

This comes directly from the saddleback site. YOU decide if Donnie was being untruthful....again.

Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.

What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

It illustrates Christ´s burial and resurrection.

"Christ died for our sins... He was buried... and He rose again." --I Cor. 15:3-4

"For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ." --Col. 2:12

It illustrates my new life as a Christian.

"When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. The old life has passed away and a new life has begun!" --2 Cor. 5:17

"By our baptism then, we were buried with Him and shared His death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead... so also we may live a new life!" --Rom. 6:4

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." --Ephesians 2:8,9

Why Be Baptized By Immersion?

Because Jesus was baptized that way.

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water." --Matt. 3:16

Every baptism in the Bible was by immersion.

"...then both Philip and the man went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water..." --Acts 8:38-39

The word Baptize means "To dip under water"

The Greek work Baptizo means "To immerse or dip under water".

It best symbolized a burial and resurrection!

The founders of denominations agree:

Martin Luther... "I would have those who are to be baptized to be entirely immersed, as the work imports and the mystery signifies."

John Calvin... "The word ´baptize´ signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the ancient church."

John Wesley... "Buried with Him, alludes to baptizing by immersion according to the custom of the first church."

Who Should Be Baptized?

Every person who has believed in Christ.

"Those who believe and accepted His message were baptized..." --Acts 2:41

"Simon himself believed and was baptized..." --Acts 8:13

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the Good News... and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." --Acts 8:12

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Dave's Original Post (Above)

November 15 2012, 6:43 PM 

Dave,

The above was your original post.

1. You posted as "Anonymous." [Why do you keep doing it this way? Afraid?]

2. Your own original words were unedited.

3. I added the statements (in BLUE) from the Saddleback website re: "About Salvation." The reason was that you were being deceitful and misleading to the readers by NOT including THAT very significant paragraph from the Saddleback website.

4. The way you had it, the Saddleback information was difficult to read and unorganized without the list of items numbered. I simply replicated the easy-to-read format from the website.



 
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B
(no login)
74.179.7.25

Re: Dave's Original Post (Above)

November 15 2012, 7:06 PM 

So what really is Dave's point about Saddleback anyway? From reading the site, it's clear that the Saddleback folks do not believe baptism is essential for salvation. To them, baptism is merely a sign that you've already been "saved" after accepting Jesus into your heart as your personal Savior. Is Dave trying to tell us that he would like to see the church of Christ adopt Saddleback's philosophy of baptism?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.69.47

Re: Dave's Original Post (Above)

November 15 2012, 7:08 PM 

Baptism
Baptism by immersion symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and is your public declaration that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism does not save you, but shows the world that you have already been saved. And while baptism is not required for salvation, it is a biblical command and demonstrates your love and obedience to Christ.


That's a lie: it tells Jesus Christ that HE is a liar: it tells Peter that he is a liar.

Only those who were SAVED by being baptized were added to the church-the house of God.

1Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
.....and if it first begin at us,
.....what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


Those who have not been baptized have NOT been added to the Church by Christ. Those will SCARCELY be saved. Why weren't the saved when they believed? Those who have NOT obeyed the Gospel or "pattern intended to be imitated will NOT be Saved.

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
.....For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?


Pistis or faith means to OBEY or TO COMPLY. Only those who have obeyed the gospel are EVER called believers.

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus
.....Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
.....that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
.....even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,
.....we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
.....that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


Those who have not been BURIED will not be RAISED
Those who have NOT been planted IN THE LIKENESS of His Death
.....Will NOT be raised in the likeness of His RESURRECTION
.....That means that the will NOT receive A New, Holy Spirit

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
.....his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
.....whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,
.....but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


The FORM is a TUPOS or "A Pattern Intended to be Imitated."
Those who have NOT obeyed that pattern are NOT THEN free from Sin.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou?
.....arise, and be baptized,
.....and wash away thy sins,
.....calling on the name of the Lord.


Baptism is the ONLY way for one to CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD.
Those who trust THEIR ability to believe have NOT called on the Lord.
Therefore, they have NOT had their sins washed away.

Those who were baptized IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ had their sins remitted and received A holy spirit.

1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient,
.....when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
.....while the ark was a preparing,
.....wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto EVEN BAPTISM DOETH NOW SAVE US
.....(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
.....but the REQUEST FOR a good conscience toward God,)
.....by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


A good conscience is A holy spirit. Those who have NOT been baptized have NOT been saved because BAPTISM is the Christ-ordained way to CALL ON THE NAME of the Lord Requesting A holy spirit. Those who reject baptism do NOT have A holy spirit of A good consciousness. That is why, according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 3 they cannot read BLACK text on BROWN paper.

Only Satan has a vested interest in working so hard to force the simple-minded to call God a liar. We are told that "vipers hate water." That's why John told the Viper Race that they would be baptized with FIRE and as CHAFF they will be cast into the fire.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.69.47

Re: Dave's Original Post (Above)

November 15 2012, 7:28 PM 

Baptism doesn´t make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it´s the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart.

That's a Satanic lie.

We have noted above that NO ONE is called a BELIEVER until after they have been baptized.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs,
.....what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said,
.....Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,
.....and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


Paul said that he preached the SAME GOSPEL as Peter.

The Jailer could not be a believer because Faith comes by hearing.

Acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

When he heard the WORD OF THE LORD he understood that Paul commanded him to be baptized

Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night,
.....and washed their stripes; [repented]
.....and was baptized [for the remission of sins]
.....he and all his, straightway.
Acts 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them,
.....and rejoiced, BELIEVING in God with all his house.


The eunuch is not said to have gone away REJOICING until he came up OUT of the Water. Baptism to DEMONSTRATE your salvation to the watching world but denying the power of Christ's INSTRUMENTAL MEANS is proof that they are ANTI-Biblical and ANTI-Christian who said that if you do NOT comply and be baptized you will be DAMNED. Consumed in Isaiah 1.

You see, he must have believed at one level or he would not have been baptized.
Who told him TO BE BAPTIZED?

he was NOT called a believer until AFTER he was baptized.
The people at Pentecost did not have A holy spirit until after they obeyed in baptism.
They were not ADDED to the Church by Christ until they were baptized.

Simply by using Rick Warren's material the elders have REFUSED to believed the RECORD of the SON the Father made. Therefore, they CANNOT be saved and are trying to give themselves a whisper of a hope as to why they should not burn for lying about music and deliberately sowing discord.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 15 2012, 7:51 PM 

Donnie mentioned that, I, "You posted as "Anonymous." [Why do you keep doing it this way? Afraid?]"

Double standard....it's why you put your wall around B (William Crump.)


How many times do we go round and round about this?


You want to post me as David Fields, but when I mention William Crump being B you go in hiding....actually you usually don't post it.


Double standard.....but for this site, it is the least of your troubles and woeful ways.

 
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B
(no login)
74.240.241.193

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 15 2012, 9:35 PM 

"Anonymous" reveals no name whatsoever. "B" is my name here, even if it is just one letter. Dave needs to get used to it and get over it. He can use "D" or "DF" if he doesn't want to post as "Dave," but no, he insists on using "Anonymous," then throws a fit when Donnie substitutes Dave's real name. Donnie would likely do the same to B if he routinely posted as "Anonymous." So, the only double standard here is the one in Dave's mind. The lesson Dave needs to learn is: don't post as "Anonymous."

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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