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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.69.47

Part Three Purpose-Driven Cult

November 15 2012, 9:29 PM 

Donnie noted the "tenses of salvation." In Ephesians 4 Paul is showing how Grace and Faith HAS and WILL continue to save them. However, there is no reason to expect that any of our readers can lift their eyes up to the top of the chapter and show how GRACE and FAITH has and will save us from the Kosmos or World order: remember that David spoke of praising in the FIRMAMENT and not in the Synagogue. That makes sense since the Jews had been abandoned to the world order, the worship of the starry host. Purpose-Driver and Madison prove without a doubt that they are wallowing in the things Paul wanted us to be saved FROM.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.69.47

Re: Part Three Purpose-Driven Cult

November 15 2012, 9:54 PM 

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:
he that believeth not God hath made him a liar;
because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is IN
his Son. 

 [linked image]



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 174.228.69.47 on Nov 15, 2012 10:24 PM


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 15 2012, 10:39 PM 

William Crump said ""B" is my name here, even if it is just one letter."
B is not your name, here nor anywhere else. It is an alias. I will ask you what Donnie asked me "[Why do you keep doing it this way? Afraid?]"

Donnie gives out his name. Ken gives out his name. B gives an alias.
You scared?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Being Addressed: "Annie Mouse"

November 15 2012, 11:53 PM 

Annie Mouse [OOPS! I meant "Anonymous."],

You should know by now that often a message or post submitted by the messenger needs a response from someone else.

For example, if "ServantForHim" publishes a message to which I am responding, I would like to address him as "Servant." "Hello, Servant, how are you today? I hope you're doing fine."

Or, "B, you have presented an argument that seems irrefutable. Would you quote passages or references from Scripture to prove your point? BCV, please."

We'll have to respect "B" for choosing that as his "handle" or user name. If time comes when "B" changes to "C" or to his middle name or last name, that will be his choice.

But "Anonymous"? How many Annie Mouses are there?

Now, let's get back to the discussion from which you, Dave, are trying to deviate.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.204.170

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 16 2012, 12:25 AM 

Surely Dave has learned by now that posting as "Anonymous" doesn't cut it with Donnie, so Dave should just comply and use some other consistent identity, like "D" or "DF," if he doesn't want his real name to show up here. "Anonymous" is no identity at all.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 16 2012, 8:24 AM 

Anyonymous is it....not D, like B, nor anything else.
happy.gif
Donnie, your respect for B in anything.....shows you why this site is a scam. As far as the discussion goes here, if you had wanted to do the right thing, then you would have responded to my post (with the additional information) instead of editing it. Your editing and slander against others say to the readers "this is my site, I pay for it, and I will do and say anything that I wish." In other words "its my ball, I am mad now, so I am taking my ball and going home."

A scam is a scam.

 
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B
(no login)
98.87.21.176

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 16 2012, 12:35 PM 

Dave is mad because things on this site are not going his way, so he jumps up and down and squeals "Scam, scam, scam!" That's really comical! happy.gif

BTW, I get the impression that Dave would like for churches of Christ to adopt Saddleback's philosophy of baptism. You know, the philosophy that says baptism has nothing to do with salvation and is merely a follow-up act you do some time after you get "saved" when you ask Jesus into your heart as your personal Savior. Saddleback seems to be Dave's "dream" church.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.254.147.20

Baptist Baptism is PAGAN baptism

November 16 2012, 1:02 PM 

Pagan Believer's Baptism.

http://www.piney.com/BapPagan.html

Makes sense to me: I always get clean by THINKING about taking a bath. So, after the grease and grime are cleaned away I take a Bath just to please my wife and tell her that smell and grime was not MY FAULT.

So-Called Believer's Baptism does not mean that a believer complies and is baptized: in ancient paganism, Apollo (Abaddon, Apollon) was called the WASHER. The mark of PSALLO points to Apollo who was the father of musical harmony and perverted worship.

You remember that the false Jews were called MEN acting like children in the marketplace: they piped trying to INITIATE others with the result of the singing-lamenting and dancing. After being initiated into sexuality usually the gay brotherhood (all religious hoods have been like that), they were WASHED and needed to take a bath--badly.

I remember boylings speaking about feeling CLEAN after one of the musical worship performances.

Chapter XXI.-The Views of Redemption Entertained by These Heretics.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of "redemption" as there are teachers of these mystical opinions.

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place,
that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God,
and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.

Chapter XXI.-The Views of Redemption Entertained by These Heretics.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of "redemption" as there are teachers of these mystical opinions.

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place,
that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God,
and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.

Chapter XXI.-The Views of Redemption Entertained by These Heretics.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of "redemption" as there are teachers of these mystical opinions.

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place,
that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God,
and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.


The American Baptist religion is not Christian but is Gnosticism. Gnosis or wisdom does not come from reading the Bible but from an experential encounter all alone with the Spirit.

2. They maintain that those who have attained to perfect knowledge must of necessity be regenerated into that power which is above all.

For it is otherwise impossible to find admittance within the Pleroma, since this [regeneration]
it is which leads them down into the depths of Bythus.
For the baptism instituted

by the visible Jesus was for the remission of sins,
but the redemption brought in by that Christ who descended upon Him, was for perfection;

and they allege that the former is animal, but the latter spiritual. And the baptism of John was proclaimed with a view to repentance, but the redemption by Jesus was brought in for the sake of perfection.

 
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Robert
(no login)
129.71.204.146

Boylings?

November 17 2012, 1:42 PM 

Ken,

What is a "boyling"? Is this some sort of demonic reference to children in your church? What is up with you? Are you willingly aligned with demonic forces, or what?

Come on, Ken, here is what you said: "I remember boylings speaking about feeling CLEAN after one of the musical worship performances."


 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.70.114

Re: Boylings?

November 17 2012, 2:49 PM 

The internet is alive with the sounds of mocking "musical worship teams" and even lilting, tilting preaching as disgustingly effeminate--unless you are the one IMPOSING them. Boylings is more Biblical than thinglings or flangy-clangy those who Jesus called MEN who were piping in the marketplace like CHILDREN.

Here is some Isaiah 3 by the Spirit OF Christ.

Isaiah III. For, behold, the Lord, Yahweh of Hosts, takes away from Jerusalem and from Judah supply and support, The whole supply of bread, And the whole supply of water; [2] The mighty man, The man of war, The judge, The prophet, The diviner, The elder, [3] The captain of fifty, The honorable man, The counselor, The skilled craftsman, And the clever enchanter. [4] I will give boys to be their princes, And children shall rule over them.

Propheta and prphtes , ae, m., = prophêtês, I. a foreteller, soothsayer, prophet
Hariolus I. a soothsayer, prophet, prophetess Chresmodotes one who gives oracles,

Elquum
I. In Aug. poets, and their imitators among prose writers, for eloquentia, eloquence, *
II. In late Lat., declaration,eloquia pulchritudinis, fine words, Vulg. Gen. 49, 21; id. Prov. 4, 20 al used with Ignis.


The IGNIS is the Fire Lighter or Incentor meaning Song Starter.

Boys: Effemino II.Trop., to make womanish, effeminate, to enervate, A.Womanish, effeminate,
Histrio, stage-player, actor, mimus, boaster, used with
Scaena, 1. Of a place like a scene of a theatre, school of rhetoric, display of eloquence.
B. In mal. part., that submits to unnatural lust: pathicus, Cinaedos: a sodomite, catamite, one who dances publicly

Matt. 11:8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft [Catamites] clothing are in kings houses.
Matt. 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Matt. 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

1 Kings 14:[22] 10. and will utterly sweep away the house of Jeroboam, as a man sweeps away dung, until it be all gone. Judah did that which was evil in the sight of Yahweh, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they committed, above all that their fathers had done. [23] For they also built them high places, and pillars, and Asherim, on every high hill, and under every green tree; [24] and there were also sodomites in the land: they did according to all the abominations of the nations which Yahweh drove out before the children of Israel.


I don't accuse them but I think this is why up to half of the owners FLEE for their lives without understanding why. The persona of religious musicians has always been gender-tilted. Plato says that this GENDER-BLEED can actually cause the disease of effeminacy in the AUDIENCE.

Paul EXCLUDED the Dogs and Concision from the worship "In the Spirit" and the Dogs were Cynics identified by their wolfish singing or howling used to attract mates.

Jesus and the first amendment gives me the right to HISS and apparently the watching world sees it even as elders Paul warned about as wolves lust to turn, as boasted, "the church into a Theater for Holy Entertainment."

I need to post the links on Isaiah 3 so you can check for yourself. Those who PIPED were still under the Dionysian influence which had sexuality and homosexuality in the Temple. The boys who remained were forced to Wear the Hat of Hermes which made them into a phallic symbol. They performed in the Temple.

By PIPING they wanted to induce the lamenting or singing and dancing. That Dionysus (Wineskinner) initiation hurts really bad and the instrumental music was to drown out the cries of pain.

I just don't know why people will lie, cheat and steal just to be able to manifest the universal persona whether they know what is going on or not.



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.254.147.20

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 16 2012, 12:39 PM 

By GRACE are we saved by FAITH: Grace is a name for Jesus made to be both Lord and Christ. Christ as Word and Righteousness and GRACE came to teach us NOT to do what we are saved FROM in Ephesians 2.

Grace and Faith is a GIFT: we could never believe by any power of our own: the Gospel IS that power. It is a GIFT that:

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

OUR INITIAL SALVATION AS "SAVED FROM THAT CROOKED RACE AT BAPTISM. This table shows that Paul always repeats the Raised with Christ concept in several of his letters:




When a person drives or walks to their job they walk or drive by faith: faith alone is NEVER seen in the literature and if he BELIEVED that he would be safe on the road but REFUSED to go to work he would be fired. Maybe not for violating a law but for being too ignorant to walk BY FAITH.

We have shown that a person who walks by FAITH is a person who does not walk by WORKS or by LAW. Rick Warren and the self-appointed elders not APT to teach that which has been taught are still walking by LAW and by WORKS. The believe the pagan view that they can PERFORM certain musical or dramatic rituals and be WORSHIPING God.

A person who hires a theatrical performer Rhetorician is a person who is a HYPOCRITE and a legalists because he believes that he can violate the LOGOS word and be MOR POWERFUL if he speaks about himself or tries to infiltrate other PERFORMERS.

In all recorded history such as the Jacob-Cursed Levites their ABANDONMENT forced them to perform EXORCISM to drive away the bad demons (traditionalists) and attract the good angels (progressives).

ANY attempt to AID the Word of God or to perform the so-called worship is called LEGALISM. And since it drives away the Disciples who want to hear from Jesus, it is THE primary definition of SECTARIAN or HERESY.

[linked image]


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.254.147.20

Plato defines Abaddon, Apollyon and his Musical Worship Team

November 16 2012, 2:14 PM 

John in Revelation 17f makes the following connections:
1. Defines the Babylonian Mother of Harlots which most people would understand if they knew about the Greek culture.
2. Defines her priests as emasculated "Fruits"
3. Defines the muses or LOCUSTS in the classics along with speakers and instrument players.
4. He calls them SORCERERS: when you see and hear the MUSES you know that the SIGN or striking the flag in the ekklesia has happened and that Jesus really DID visit their theater to pick up the Candlestick of 7 spirits of divine knowledge.
5. One would wonder why at the highest levels of scholarship insist that there is NOTHING in the Bible against using instruments to silence the voice of the victim.
6. Even if you can explain away John's warning about the "sounds like harps" and other sounds are sounds of JUDGMENT, you must wonder why they are not even able to discuss Revelation 18 showing that the sorcerers and dogs and liars will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire.
7. Don't be surprised that they cannot muster the courage to "give an account" for their deliberate lies.

http://www.piney.com/ClasPlaCratylus.html

[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 16 2012, 4:48 PM 

Hey B.....tell me when I have stopped jumping up and down. Since it expends quite a bit of energy I want to know if I am tired yet.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.7.172

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

November 16 2012, 9:19 PM 

Has Dave pitched Saddleback's philosophy of baptism to his church yet? Since Dave is an "elder," I'm sure they would listen to whatever he told them, because Dave believes that elders are infallible. LOL!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.64.214

Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

November 17 2012, 4:01 PM 

Rick Warren Says that Jesus was Wrong: Baptism does not Save. However, you cannot be a member of Rick Warren's Baptist Church without being baptized.

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Warren.Baptism.Does.Not.Save.html


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.211.40

Re: Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

November 17 2012, 6:42 PM 

Not all Baptists believe that baptism is required for church membership. At the Baptist church where I once attended, some of the long-term members there had NEVER been baptized. So not only did they believe that baptism played no part in salvation, they also believed that baptism was entirely optional.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.7.202

Re: Rick Warren Baptism Does Not Save

November 17 2012, 10:17 PM 

I read a post somewhere and the Baptist was lamenting that up to half of them wanted to be baptized that night. This was bad because they had to be educated and certified before they could be baptized.

Your experience may represent a larger group so that there is no unified belief. Donnie collected about 140 names of distinct Baptist Denominations. They have always been pretty fractured.

They just find a "saved by faith" passage and then dismiss the massive evidence elsewhere in the Bible. Too many now just make up their own "Scripture."

 
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john watson smith
(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

God tests us all

November 17 2012, 8:28 PM 


Consider that in Psalm 11 the spirit states that God tests men both good and evil.

I offer for your consideration that this kind of error teaching about baptism has as one purpose to intensify and raise our awareness of what God has to say - both to our inner selves but also to all those we teach and influence. See the comment of the spirit in Psalm 119:71.

The negative attitudes and comments about those of us who hold the view that baptism is for the remission of sins is to test us and make us more determined to teach the whole truth of the matter. This includes pointing out who is in error and why they are in error.

In Peters sermon in Acts 2 he pointed out the first and primary need of the hearers was to repent and be baptized. Paul when in Damascus had this baptism for remission of sins as first and primary - see Acts 9 & Acts 22. Note the Bible definition of calling on the Lord. Calling on the name of the Lord means to obey him! Those that don't obey God have not called on his name
and are not the beneficiaries of his promises.

Consider what may follow after this Rick Warren error about baptism. They may try to say that we should be recognizing all denominations because of their "good works" and that these good works are just as important as "our" teaching on baptism.

Remember the soldier in Acts 10 was doing good works - yet he was told to summon Peter to be taught about baptism and learn what primary obedience is and do it. SIn is what separates us from God and we begin the Christian life by addressing that issue first.

Comments Welcome

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.7.202

Re: God tests us all

November 17 2012, 10:56 PM 

I discovered that I had posted Psalm 119 a long time back.

http://www.piney.com/Psalm.119.html

There are lots of parallels and I find that when David is engaged in personal devotion to God it is always in connection with God's Word.

He speaks about the Word of God
And he MEDITATES in his heart.

We have noted that 'psallo' has no musical meaning: it just means to pluck kind of string. It is based on the SOP word which speaks of grinding something into a fine powder. The word GRACE in Colossians 3:16 also means a divine influence on the heart.

"making melody in the heart" or "with grace in the heart" I believe has the same meaning as MEDITATING in the heart. You cannot really learn anything until you hear it or speak it and then rehearse it in your mind.

Psalm 119 seems pretty important to you and I can understand why. It's pretty hard to think about it and then turn around and make loud noise which destroys any meditation or rehearsing of what you speak or sing.



 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.36.34

Trust

November 17 2012, 10:58 PM 

It may be true that some other Churches of Christ have used the Rick Warren literature.

But, the difference between some of these churches and the Madison congregation, is that the "shepherds" or "eldership", whichever expression one uses, is one of trust.

Churches that do not trust their leaders are much more upset when an video instrument of modification is used.

The "orange" decision by the "shepherds" to introduce a showtime atmosphere sets the congregation on pins and needles, and increases distrust.

See the history of Charles Stanley's "prodigal son" Andy, for a thorough understanding of "orange."




 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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