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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.36.51

Laying on hands

December 18 2012, 9:05 PM 

The point is that if the church emphasizes "sprituality" then why is the physical laying on of hands be necessary. If spiritual, it could be transmitted through the air.

You don't need to quote to me:

"Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord" James 5:14

The elders didn't have any oil on December 16.

Besides in Acts 13 where the hands were laid on, there were teachers and prophets who laid on hands, not a group of official elders.

Point is, I suppose, that as this site tries to point out, the authority rests in the Word of God, and not in the "laying on of hands." Without Biblical authority, it is all for nought.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Laid on their hands

December 18 2012, 11:32 PM 

This "laying on of hands" ritual/ceremony reminds of the "divine healing service" that was being promoted not long after the upheaval of 2001. I was worried that it would be incorporated into the "worship service" not soon after. But, fortunately, it did not occur.

Now, I wonder if the "shepherds" would still allow the "lady in jeans" [female, you know] to be on stage and co-worship-lead with the "Worship Leader" [male] and one singing elder [male] during "contemporary worship."

As a result, I wonder, too, if it's one reason why some members have gone from "contemporary" to "traditional" in attendance.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

From Phil to Jason and the Madison-Hermitage Connection

December 18 2012, 11:45 PM 

It was Phil Barnes' ministry journey from Hermitage to Western Hills to Madison (in the fall of 2004 thru the end of 2012) to _________ where next?

(I need to be convinced that Phil Barnes is leaving on his own volition. At least he's received the least amount of criticism from ConcernedMembers. Wait. I see. He wasn't good enough to keep the youth from leaving Madison or to attract the youth from neighboring denominational groups to come to Madison, is that correct?)

It's "the youth" that rocks, stupid!

Now it's Jason's "youth" ministry from Hermitage to Madison, and a BIG promotion at Madison. It remains to be seen. He's delivered a couple of charismatic but down-to-earth "speeches" before in Phil's absence. Does that prove anything? Maybe, Jason can turn it around and increase church attendance even at the expense of alienating the senior saints [... not much longer to wait for them to die off].

Here's more of the Madison-Hermitage connection:


The Madison-Hermitage Connection


Jason has corresponded with ConcernedMembers before. He may be curious about what the forum says.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.36.51

Pulpit Minister reason for leaving

December 19 2012, 8:02 AM 

We may never know the entire story.

Madison was and is stuck in a no growth mode, with modifications to worship failing to deliver any attendance or membership growth, in fact, maybe just the opposite.

Pulpit minister may have blamed himself for lack of growth.

Some insider information close to the preacher indicates that it was not his decision.

Elders "coldly" said publicly that they accepted his resignation, without ANY compliment for his ministry.

Most importantly, his wife was crying.

New pulpit minister has roots in rural KY and TN, and maybe there is hope for him.

The problem is how he will evolve with the "laying of hands" by the elders, and subsequently, how they will be affect is pulpit ministry.


 
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MCC-Torn
(Login mcc-torn)
166.205.55.24

Re: New Senior Minister at Madison

December 19 2012, 10:18 AM 

"Could this guy return them to the old paths?"

Absolutely not. Jason Shepherd has led the youth group and their instrumental music activities since the elders authorized this with the "new vision" earlier this year.

A few years ago, Jason was preaching on Sunday morning, and he started his sermon by playing part of the pop song "Billionaire" over the speakers. When the youth started singing along, he encouraged them to sing. I remember this well because I had out of town guests visiting that day.

Even though Jason played the "censored" version, the original song contains an f-word expletive in the first line. I doubt if that was lost on the youth and others familiar with pop music.

I personally do not care what people wear to church, but I would assume that regularly wearing torn clothing while preaching or leading prayers at worship wouldn't be considered following the "old paths" but I'm sure it impresses the kids. It is my opinion that pleasing the youth group is now the primary purpose of the Madison Church (of Christ - for now).

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.8.12

Re: New Senior Minister at Madison

December 19 2012, 12:51 PM 

God promised to send strong delusions in the form of lyingt wonders to those who do not have any respect for Jesus and HIS Word. The discorders will never be able to read the text but, children grow up and they will curse their leaders for leading them into the pattern of the Babylon Mother of Harlots: she uses lusted after fruits as spakers, singers, instrument players and ALL teknokrats selling the free word and John calls them SORCERERS and says that they will or perhaps ARE casting themselves alive into the lake of fire.

There is no reason that any person with all of the "degrees" offerended by institutes can know enough to use his own imagination or the music of the fruity-cakes. That's why the command is to PREACH the Word by READING the Word.

Judas didn't know that he was in the clutches of the Devil until Jesus flashed the SOP word: Psallo has the same root word and the TRIUMPH OVER Messiah in prophecy is by using MUSICAL NOISE MAKERS to tickle and abrade all of the pleasure centers.

Isaiah 3 warned about the women and BOYS ruling over and all of the MARKS proves that Satan is working really hard to take down Madison which still boasts about being the BIGGEST with 5500 members.

Jason never read the prophets and ignored the fact that the church is EDUCATED on the Prophets and Apostles because Christ led the Prophets and Jesus as the Christ made the prophecies more certain. Otherwise he would know that he/they are musically mocking and smiting Jesus with any kind of musical performance. Sorry, Jacon but history knows absolutely no exception to the personal of rhetoricians, singers and instrument players which Jesus called HYPOCRITES.

[linked image]
[linked image]

We don't say that the heads are like that just that recorded history knows no exception.

 
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Jimmy Joe
(no login)
69.137.70.215

Conjecture

December 19 2012, 8:31 PM 

Seems like a lot of conjecture taking place. To simplify things, I believe one can either support the new pulpit minister and congregation or not. Now how hard was that? Donnie as to your question of when Jason became the youth minister, I don't really know and why does it matter? He begins his new position the first of the year.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Conjecture

December 19 2012, 10:06 PM 

Therefore, mine was a question -- not a gossip.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.204.199

Re: Conjecture

December 19 2012, 10:56 PM 

Seems like MCC-Torn has first-hand knowledge of this guy Jason's supporting instrumental music and playing "censored" pop songs in worship to appeal to the youth. That doesn't sound like "conjecture"; that sounds like MCC-Torn was an eye witness. Now if this Jason fellow has a history of pulling those kinds of stunts, is he likely to do the same or worse when he becomes the new pulpit minister in January? If so, then Madison would be a church to avoid.

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.113.233

Re: Conjecture

December 20 2012, 8:16 AM 

I agree with "B", if you don't like what is happening at Madison then stay away from Madison.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.13.69

Re: Conjecture

December 20 2012, 10:49 AM 

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city" (Mark 6:11 KJV).

Just as the apostles shook the dust from their feet against those who would not receive the Gospel, so we should shake the proverbial dust from our feet against those churches that, despite the teachings of the New Testament, dabble in unscriptural practices and the agenda of worldly men.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.120.112

Lord's Supper Corruption

December 20 2012, 3:18 PM 

One thing he [new pulpit minister] did on one Sunday late worship was to instruct everyone to turn around during the Lord's Supper and tell what kind of things happened in their lives during the week. This was apparently an attempt to kill the quiet and get everyone into everyone else's business [just one interpretation]. By the way, QUIET is not something that can be tolerated in this New York Minute culture.

No one did what he suggested--they just continued to sit and honored the Lord's Supper as usual. He was ignored. What will be interesting is that as weekly pulpit minister, how many of these unusual requests will have to be done until there is some elder intervention. Pulpit minister, watch out!

I think we may see more of this--during the Lord's Supper getting up and praying with small groups in the assembly. Or this may happen at other quieter moments.

Clapping is done by only a small minority during singing--I'm saying only about 10 percent. I noticed a previous pulpit minister, who sitting in the audience two or three years ago never clapped--just his wife.

Members in the assembly are not just that malleable. Look toward many refusing to take part in these displays. Get ready for the action! Of course, the tactic of the "truly spiritual" [in their opinion] is to wait, and keep the frog in the warming pan.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.13.73

Re: Lord's Supper Corruption

December 20 2012, 9:30 PM 

One thing he [new pulpit minister] did on one Sunday late worship was to instruct everyone to turn around during the Lord's Supper and tell what kind of things happened in their lives during the week. This was apparently an attempt to kill the quiet and get everyone into everyone else's business [just one interpretation]. By the way, QUIET is not something that can be tolerated in this New York Minute culture.

Perhaps this is a problem with the "youngers" being the pastor teachers and not APT to teach the Word. I have heard lots of people saying that the "can't keep his mouth shut" is making them year for a more structured liturgy. I had to check myself out of the sandbox or check myself into an institution.

Habakkuk 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach [D
avid's Lyre]! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
Habakkuk 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

God moves the gate into the Throne Rome and I don't think you can get self-speak sermons or effeminate singing and acting past the Levites commanded to strike you dead.

This proves that he has never read the reason for the Lord's Supper: it is to show forth or teach the DEATH of Jesus. If you confess that Jesus died then the rest of the juvenile self-speak will just be silenced. How can he represent the LOGOS when he does not know the meaning of the word?

After All Christ in Isaiah 58 OUTLAWED seeking your own pleasure or speaking your own words. Romans 14 outlaws doubtful disputations or discussion of YOUR OPINIONS.

Maybe someone should tell them that hand clapping was almost universally to hiss the LOOSER. Clearly Jesus is the looser when the preacher has to invent games to detract from thinking about Jesus and what HE did and says. The Word for clapping in the Hebrew is also use to translate VOMIT. Or "exploding the looser out of the theater.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.5.24

Re: New Senior Minister at Madison

December 19 2012, 10:43 PM 

The Israelites slandered God with musical idolatry and arousing people to irreverence. The Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites (Jason's PATTERN) executed 3000 of the "brethren" and others were consumed with fire.

http://www.piney.com/MuSinai.html

The Spirit of Christ affirms this musical idolatry as without redemption in may prophets.

http://www.piney.com/MuSinai2.html

In the end time God pours out the wine of His wrath without mixture with water and then cast the speakers, singers and instrument players into the Lake of Fire--while still living. The evidence is that God is taking down HIS ENEMIES with wind, string and percussion instruments as Christ promised in Isaiah 30 and Revelation.

There is no reason that Jason should know any of these facts because only those with A holy spirit are given the ability to read BLACK text on BROWN paper. Otherwise, all of the musical slanderers would know that God is still A CONSUMING FIRE.

Nope, they didn't have a course in word mining for only those who are diligent seekers who care to be saved. I will put this quick research on the web so that disciples can look up the reason why MOST are WISE (speakers, singers, instrument players) and God HIDES from you or the WORLD or Kosmos for whom Jesus does not even pray.

This data defines WHY those who slander God in Christ will NEVER man up and need to give an answer.

[linked image]


 
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Kenneth Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.3.188

Is this the LAST SHAKING? Don't be musicated out of salvation.

December 20 2012, 2:10 PM 

Remember that this forum was started because Madison was one of the first churches to fall as a result of Shelly and Acthley who said "we let our youth hear lots of Christian Bands (a blasphemy) to teach them to leave our movement. Madison has been at it for the normal expected time to rout out all of the mothers and fathers and BRAND ALTER the youth using music: all recorded history knows that you can even use music to cause women to betray their own mothers.

Madison is a Poster Child: otherwise, dusting feet would be good advice. It is important to see the PATTERNISM Lucifer (the singing and harp playing prostitute in the garden of Eden) uses to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter. Here is some Hebrews 12 in Latin defining how the world was SHAKEN at Mount Sinai and was/is scheduled to be repeated when the Babylon Mother of Harlots (Rev 17) uses "lusted after fruits" as speakers, singers and instrument players whom John calls SORCERERS (Rev 18) and WILL BE cast alive into the lake of fire.

Most "clergy" will not grasp it and the DISCORDERS won't grasp it until the SOP (Psallo) Word gets them indwelled by Satan and having failed will have to do the Judas maneuver. They do the whiney-boyling "Je-Zeus paid it all" but THEY want to get paid to slander Jesus who TAUGHT it all.

[linked image]


 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.120.112

The Values of This Age Group

December 20 2012, 3:34 PM 

These are some of the qualities the modifying forces value:

Noise, not Quiet Meditation
Novelty, not Tested Pattern
Feeling, not Logic
Conformity, not Distinction
Movement, not stability
Synopsis , not depth
Youth, not experience

There may be others, and an argument can be made for or against these values.

But, in the end, this age will pass and another will take its place. A later age will once gain pick up the qualities of meditation, tested patatern, logic, stability, depth, and experience.

The instability in the churches at the present time will continue to spread, both from and into the culture, until it reaches an unsustainable lack of equilibrium--then the forces of stability will once gain show their power. This will be the New Age of Rediscovery, and it will bring peace and security to the future.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.13.73

Re: New Senior Minister at Madison

December 20 2012, 9:07 PM 

Scripture is so certain and historic scholarship agrees that when we approach God it must be in reverence and godly fear. Worship literally means to fall on your face or act like a dog licking the master's boots. Only God can tell us why men lie about all revealed knowledge and lust to perform rituals which they KNOW reflects on their persona and deliberately sows discord. Even when they have driven weeping widows out they cannot stop adding blow after blow after blow. This has to be a supernatural outbreak. Paul defined worship as absolutely demanding that you sacrifice or "burn up" al of your private opinions (Rom 14) and seeking pleasure (all of the hypocritic arts and crafts) so that you can worship IN THE SPIRIT (as Jesus restricted it) and rational or devoted to TRUTH which is the Word of God.

Romans 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that
.....YE present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
.....which is your reasonable service.
.....tn logikn latreian humn:


First, the body of flesh must be sacrificed or burned up:

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.


Then, it is possible to engage in RATIONAL or SPIRITUAL worship:

Latin: Romans 12.1 obsecro itaque vos fratres per misericordiam Dei ut exhibeatis corpora vestra hostiamviventemsanctam Deo placentem rationabile obsequium vestrum

Ratinblis , e, adj. ratio (post-Aug.; = rationalis, which is in better use), I. reasonable, rational: he pure milk of reason, id. 1 Pet. 2, 2: sententia vera et rationabilis,
Sententa , ae, f. for sentientia, from sentio, I. a way of thinking, opinion, judgment, sentiment; a purpose, determination, decision, will, etc.
I. Transf., of words, discourse, etc., sense, meaning, signification, idea, notion, etc.
1. In gen., a thought expressed in WORDS; a sentence, period: dum de singulis sententiis breviter disputo


[linked image]

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural [instinctive] brute [Anti-Logical] brute beasts, [Zoon, Zao, Zoe]
.....made to be taken and destroyed,
.....speak evil of the things that they understand not; [through lack of knowledge]
.....and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Natural: G5446 phusikos foo-see-kos' From G5449 [natural descent] ; physical, that is, (by implication) instinctive:--natural. Compare G5591
III. later, belonging to occult laws of nature, magical, ph. pharmaka spells [speakers, singers, instrument players Rev 18] or amulets, Alex. Trall.1.15; phusikois khrsthai Gp.2.18.8; ph. therapeia ib.2.42.3; ph. daktulioi Sch.Ar.Pl.884. Adv. -ks Gp.9.1.5.

su_kophant-e , prosecute vexatiously, blackmail, accuse falsely, seek occasion against us, oppress us.extort by false charges or threats ay verbal traps for one, ton rhtora boulomenos dikais


Bruit Beasts are ANTI-LOGOS and therefore ANTI-CHRIST: G249 alogos [Anti-Logical] al'-og-os From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3056 ; irrational:--brute, unreasonable. alogos , on,

That's why all of this means nothing to them or to those they can help fall into the PIT meaning hell.

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.113.233

Gossip

December 21 2012, 4:40 PM 



Question: "What does the Bible say about gossip?"

Answer: The Hebrew word translated gossip in the Old Testament is defined as one who reveals secrets, one who goes about as a talebearer or scandal-monger. A gossiper is a person who has privileged information about people and proceeds to reveal that information to those who have no business knowing it. Gossip is distinguished from sharing information in two ways:

1. Intent. Gossipers often have the goal of building themselves up by making others look bad and exalting themselves as some kind of repositories of knowledge.

2. The type of information shared. Gossipers speak of the faults and failings of others, or reveal potentially embarrassing or shameful details regarding the lives of others without their knowledge or approval. Even if they mean no harm, it is still gossip.

In the book of Romans, Paul reveals the sinful nature and lawlessness of mankind, stating how God poured out His wrath on those who rejected His laws. Because they had turned away from God's instruction and guidance, He gave them over to their sinful natures. The list of sins includes gossips and slanderers (Romans 1:29b-32). We see from this passage how serious the sin of gossip is and that it characterizes those who are under Gods wrath.

Another group who were (and still are today) known for indulging in gossip is widows. Paul cautions widows against entertaining the habit of gossip and of being idle. These women are described as gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to (1 Timothy 5:12-13). Because women tend to spend a lot of time in each other's homes and work closely with other women, they hear and observe situations which can become distorted, especially when repeated over and over. Paul states that widows get into the habit of going from home to home, looking for something to occupy their idleness. Idle hands are the devil's workshop, and God cautions against allowing idleness to enter our lives. A gossip betrays a confidence; so avoid a man [or woman] who talks too much (Proverbs 20:19).

Women are certainly not the only ones who have been found guilty of gossip. Anyone can engage in gossip simply by repeating something heard in confidence. The book of Proverbs has a long list of verses that cover the dangers of gossip and the potential hurt that results from it. A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his tongue. A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy man keeps a secret (Proverbs 11:12-13).

The Bible tells us that a perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends (Proverbs 16:28). Many a friendship has been ruined over a misunderstanding that started with gossip. Those who engage in this behavior do nothing but stir up trouble and cause anger, bitterness, and pain among friends. Sadly, some people thrive on this and look for opportunities to destroy others. And when such people are confronted, they deny the allegations and answer with excuses and rationalizations. Rather than admit wrongdoing, they blame someone else or attempt to minimize the seriousness of the sin. A fool's mouth is his undoing, and his lips are a snare to his soul. The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man's inmost parts (Proverbs 18:7-8).

Those who guard their tongues keep themselves from calamity (Proverbs 21:23). So we must guard our tongues and refrain from the sinful act of gossip. If we surrender our natural desires to the Lord, He will help us to remain righteous. May we all follow the Bibles teaching on gossip by keeping our mouths shut unless it is necessary and appropriate to speak.

http://www.gotquestions.org/gossip-Bible.html

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.120.112

Gossip versus Talk

December 22 2012, 8:59 AM 

Good for Rocky to reveal these things about gossip. These are very good comments. I would like to expand on the difference in "talk" and "gossip."

Two examples of gossip might be Paul's reference to the "House of Chloe" in 1 Cor 1. This "talk" was good in that it was true. Also, it occurs in Matt. 16, in the famous passage about the Confession of Peter, where many gossiped He was "Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." Matt. 16 might suggest that the gossip was headed in the right direction--in that Jesus was something that the people had never seen before, but stopped short of endorsing Him as God's Son.

1 Cor. 1 talks about the passing on of information, which is credible. Paul comes down on gossiping widows in 1 Tim. 5:13. They were "busybodies" and "tattlers" "saying things that they ought not." These were untruths or corruptions of valid information. Busybodies implies that they had no business saying what they did. Issues confronting the church are "everybody's business" however, since we have a church in which all members are invited to search the Word of God. Concerned Members, according to our tradition, review the Scriptures and opens discussion as in no other place. This is far from devotion to "myths" (1 Tim. 1:4).

Men are just as subject to gossip as women, and some have suggested that they are more vulnerable. Anyone that has been married realizes the leverage that women have through "talk", when it takes a long time to get what they believe is needed, but the influence there is unmistakable. The power of men often comes through "position," while the infuence of women comes through "talk." Women have come into higher profile since World War II, but they have always been a huge influence.

The log "Concerned Members" tries to report as accurately as possible the events that are taking place, and I think there is an underlying desire to report accurately. Occasionally an unwise comment does show, but I have seen others back off at that point, and usually there is correction. The nature of the post is that it is free, and everyone has an opportunity to contribute. Slanderous types of logs are edited out, and this provides needed protection.

Many at Madison look down on tradition, and think they are on the "leading edge" of needed change. What they are not so much aware of is that visitors who are family members come to Madison [and are affiliated with churches other than Churches of Christ], and they are actually "taken back" by the antics seen on stage. They look at it often, not as constructive change, but more like the old shoe "Hulla-ba-loo" [I'm not sure I spelled it correctly] or to be more modern more like a Michael Jackson performance. That is, many of our "denominational neighbors" who visit are aghast.

The outcome should be not to hide any non-slanderous event or direction, but to report it accurately. The scheming that is taking place behind doors and curtains can be exposed. This has been revealed throughout the history that the undesirable events at Madison have been exposed as long-range planning, or at least evolvement, toward a much different church. Therefore, the events and quotes that are referred to in its history actually came to be. "Who told you the truth" is a better barometer of measurement of "gossip" than "Who is right?", since rightness may be harder to judge, but the "truth" in terms of what was "gossiped" would happen [and did happen] is clear, now as we look back.

"Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them" (ASV, Eph. 5:11). Any events that should be under discussion should be "exposed" so that that brothers and sisters be not caught by surprise.

We ought to consider that women contribute to church, in fact they may be some of the bigger givers, and have a right to be heard, even as pointed out in Eph 5:21, where Paul says to "submit to one another" before the verse that says "Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands." This levels the playing field between men and women, and reduces abject subordination of the wife, to one of companionship, such as "in Christ there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, bond nor free." If the ultimate outcome and influence of Christianity was to break down the barrier between slaves and masters (and erase that relationship over centuries), and to break down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile, THEN finally there will be the change of relationship between men and women to one of cooperation and companionship.

Considering that women are some of the big givers, and that they contribute massive support for the church in every place, and that elders are not to "lord it over the church but to be examples to the flock" (1 Peter 5:3), then we might conclude that "talk" of either men or women contributes to the health of the church, since all can be heard through their "voices."

Mark 10:41 "And when the ten heard it, they began to be moved with indignation concerning James and John. 42And Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they who are accounted to rule over the Gentiles lord it over them; and their great ones exercise authority over them. 43But it is not so among you: but whosoever would become great among you, shall be your minister; 44and whosoever would be first among you, shall be servant of all. 45For the Son of man also came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

 
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john watson smith
(Login johnwatsonsmith)
72.209.196.118

What we are to follow

December 24 2012, 11:08 AM 

In Rev 1 Jesus is described as being the "faithful witness" What follows is the testimony of the faithful witness as to the true spiritual health and status of churches named in the following chapters and verses. We are likewise to be faithful and true witnesses to the spiritual health of congregations if we follow this example. This is particularly true if we are a minister or teacher or someone of influence in a congregation. Consider further that the faithful witness points out faults and weaknesses and pictures them as serious. Respect for Gods revelation would be paramount in this function. Consider that we can and should measure those who influence us by the word and the fruits of their actions. Consider also that those who lack experience and a thorough grounding in the word of God can not make themselves a true and faithful witness. This is a great shortcoming of promoting young men to a position of great influence who do have a knowledge of pop psychology and church growth ideas but no grounding in Gods word. While I don't know the specific persons mentioned in this thread the measure found in Revelation is a good one and should be applied to anyone of influence in the Lords church.

Consider the comment made by God in Rev 12 that Satan will make war on the church and those that possess the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is a serious spiritual matter and we have every right to measure actions of those of influence by the word of God.

Comments welcome

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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