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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.37.156

The Bible Mentions Several Names of Books That....

January 9 2013, 12:09 AM 

I understand that Luther did not like James and Revelation.

He did not like James because it did not support his "faith" idea of salvation, and placed works in a good light--or at least, so he thought.

Revelation was also not a good book to him, because it contained vengeance. Grace only people might have some trouble with it, since God does not to tolerate evil, and punishes evil people.

Some don't like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Acts 1, because they were written before Pentecost. A signficant number of our persuasion don't like the Hebrew scriptures, for the same reasons that others don't like the Gospels and Acts 1. The books of Timothy warn us that we should "rightly divide" or "handle aright" the Word of God.

Many times we use our beliefs to control what we want the books to say, rather than use the books to control what we believe.

It would be wonderful to be able to obtain some of those lost books mentioned in the Old Testament.

 
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B
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74.179.62.250

Re: The Bible Mentions Several Names of Books That....

January 9 2013, 12:22 AM 

Dave would be much more likely to vote for making Rick Warren's The Purpose Driven Church and The Purpose Driven Life a part of the biblical canon than he would the Book of Enoch. happy.gif

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.62.250

Re: Did They Need It?

January 9 2013, 12:00 AM 

Dave, oh Dave, you keep ASSUMING that Genesis through Revelation is the "complete" canon, as mortal men have decided. Don't you know that Revelation does NOT state that there are only 66 books in the biblical canon? Don't you know that Revelation does NOT state that it is the last and final book of God's Word? Revelation simply warns not to add to or take from what is written in the Word of God. So, Dave, how do you know for sure that what we have is THE COMPLETE canon, THE COMPLETE Word of God? Can you not prove somewhere in the Scriptures that the "complete" Word of God is limited to only 66 books?

 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.37.156

Re: Did They Need It?

January 9 2013, 12:34 AM 

Isn't all this posturing because some want to use information outside the 66 books to prove something about instrumental music?

Don't many reject the Old Testament because it carries some teachings that are contrary [or at least with odds with] some New Testament teaching?

Don't many want to reject Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John because they contain some observance of the Sabbath, and because the thief on the cross was predicted to be in Paradise?

Don't we take passages such as 1 Corinthians 11, first few verses, and say they were cultural because they address women's hair and covering?

At the least, if women were covered there would have to be all this money spent on hair!
happy.gif

 
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Anonymous
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64.234.85.24

Re: Did They Need It?

January 9 2013, 12:41 AM 

B,
You asked me a question. I asked you one earlier.

You said "God does not have to make an exhaustive list of every act, deed, practice, and object on this earth that is sinful."
God has already listed every sin known to man. Name something that occurs, in thought or deed, which isn't listed?

Now B doesn't like Revelation 22 18-19 anymore.

The Preacher's Files
Sermon outlines, Bible Studies, Audio Sermons and more by preachers for the church of Christ.
By Mike Riley

A querist asks, How would you prove that the Bible is completely finished and that adding to the Bible is no longer necessary?

Is The Bible Complete?

Paul states in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. The phrase, All scripture is all inclusive of all the inspired words (or writings Gk. graphe) of God (cf. 2 Peter 1:20-21; John 6:63).

2 Peter 1:3 tells us that we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him. The knowledge of Christ (2 Peter 1:2) can be fully known by a study of both Old and New Testaments, which contain the totality of inspired scripture (Psalm 119:160; Psalm 139:17). Without a knowledge of the totality of the inspired scriptures, how could we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness?

Jude 1:3 tells us that the faith was once for all delivered to the saints. The meaning here is that the Gods truth has been once delivered for all time. It is a permanent delivery from God that will never be superseded, amended or modified (Deuteronomy 4:2; Proverbs 30:6; Revelation 22:18-19; cf. Gal. 1:6-12).

Additionally, James 1:25 states, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. The word perfect in this passage is translated from the Greek word, teleios which signifies having reached its end (telos), finished, complete, perfect. In James 1:25, the word is referring to the complete revelation of Gods will and ways, whether in the completed Scriptures or in the hearafter (Vines, 1996, p. 466).

Dave Fields____________
[Poster]


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jan 9, 2013 12:53 AM


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.247.88

Re: Did They Need It?

January 9 2013, 9:16 AM 

BCV in the Scriptures, Dave. Where do the Scriptures limit the Word of God to only 66 books? Surely you can find the passage and let us know. Now get crackin'!

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.245.117

Re: Did They Need It?

January 9 2013, 2:41 PM 

Dave, ya tried Revelation, but that didn't say anything about the canon being limited to 66 books, then ya backed up and tried James with the same results. Ya want to keep trying other books or finally admit that the Scriptures just don't give a single clue about how many books actually comprise the "complete" Word of God?

 
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Anonymous
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.7.77

Re: Did They Need It?

January 9 2013, 2:17 PM 

2 Peter 1:3 tells us that we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him. The knowledge of Christ (2 Peter 1:2) can be fully known by a study of both Old and New Testaments, which contain the totality of inspired scripture

There is not a command, example or remote inference in the whole Bible and early church history of anyone assemblying to SING as a congregation with instrumental accompaniment. Therefore, you have to hallucinate the ADDITION of instruments and that defines a sectarian or HERETIC.

On the other hand the Prophets and Apostles repudiate ANY of they hypocritic or performing arts when the group assembles to "use one mind and one mouth" to speak "that which is written for our learning."

What part of "that which is written for our learning" is so difficult to understand that all of the ADDERS say there is NOT information about how to PERFORM a worship service?

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.html

However the Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles. The Church is not built upon the Civil-Military-Priestly complex which God turned over to worship the starry host. (Acts 7). Now, if God abandoned the Jews to be carried 'beyond Babylon' (meaning no return) because of musical idolatry, The Spirit OF Christ in the prophets says that the Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites (self-speakers, singers, instrument players, fleecers) were ROBBERS and PARASITES.

God BREATHED the story of the SKIA [shadow] or the "totally erroneous system" and He BREATHED the Jewish "covenant with Death and Hell" (names of gods), but He DID NOT "inspire" them in the scholarly view that anything written in the Bible BECOMES inspired if they want to write their OWN narrative and demand that YOU pay them to teach THEIR adding to and subtracting from the TEXT.

Now, the TWO-THREAD history of the people means that only The Book of The Covenant taught in the synagogues beginning in the wilderness was taught in a Spiritual sense. The Laws were read at rare tribal gatherings to KEEP you from picking up sticks and dying.

Peter spoke of the PROPHETS and not "the old testament" including the law of Moses given because of transgression meaning "musical idolatry of the Egyptian trinity IDOLIZED by Apis the bull calf."

The DNA for making a child is NOT inspired if you decide to chop it up into pieces and put it back together in a song or sermon.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]






    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jan 9, 2013 10:55 PM


 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.7.77

Re: Did They Need It?

January 9 2013, 3:34 PM 

Yes, PROPHETS and APOSTLES written FOR OUR MEMORY. No! hit dont say "thou shalt NOT be a mocker or mockeree!"

[linked image]

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.7.77

Re: Did They Need It?

January 9 2013, 7:52 PM 

(Psalm 119:160; Psalm 139:17). Without a knowledge of the totality of the inspired scriptures, how could we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness?

(Psalm 119:160; Psalm 139:17). Without a knowledge of the totality of the inspired scriptures, how could we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness?

Psa 119:107 I am afflicted very much:
quicken me, O Lord, according unto thy word.

Psa 119:108 Accept, I beseech thee,
.....the freewill offerings of my mouth,
.....O Lord, and teach me thy judgments.


Worship is IN the mind or spirit. David did not worship with instruments.
God creates the fruit of the lips for in whom there is BREATH.

.....Isaiah 57:19 I create the fruit of the lips;
..........Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near,
..........saith the LORD; and I will heal him.

.....Isaiah 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest,
..........whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
..........Isaiah 57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

Paul understood Jesus to say that worship was not in PLACES or HOUSES or on MOUNTAINS but in SPIRIT and IN TRUTH. Tat never changed:

.....Hebrews 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
.....Hebrews 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
.....Hebrews 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,
..........that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
.....Hebrews 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not:
..........for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
.....Hebrews 13:22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation:
..........for I have written a letter unto you in few words.

Psa 119:109 My soul is continually in my hand:
.....yet do I not forget thy law.

Psa 119:147 I prevented the dawning of the morning, and cried:
.....I hoped in thy word.

Psa 119:148 Mine eyes prevent the night watches,
.....that I might meditate in thy word.

Psa 119:149 Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness:
.....O Lord, quicken me according to thy judgment.

Psa 119:170 Let my supplication come before thee:
.....deliver me according to thy word.

Psa 119:171 My lips shall utter praise,
.....when thou hast taught me thy statutes.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word:
.....for all thy commandments are righteousness.


Your assignment, if you choose to accept it, it to explain why people who ADD instruments because they are NOT in God's commands, examples or inferences can escape the judgment of despising (blaspheming) the Holy Spirit OF Christ.

Instruments DO NOT have anything to do with life or godliness: the Jews made instrumental noise because they had a covenant with DEATH and HELL.

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.7.77

Re: Did They Need It?

January 9 2013, 7:56 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Man-Made (Human) Tradition vs. Apostolic Tradition

January 9 2013, 10:44 PM 

Dave Fields,

The distinction between these two types of traditions has already been explained numerous times, but instrumental music lovers still don't get it.

Let's differentiate then by example:



--------- APOSTOLIC TRADITION ------ vs. --------- MAN-MADE (HUMAN) TRADITION ----

SPEAKING to yourselves in psalms and--|| Let the WORSHIP LEADER lead you to God's
hymns and spiritual songs, SINGING and|| holy presence; let the PRAISE TEAM of men
making melody in your heart to the----|| and WOMEN co-lead; and PLAY INSTRUMENTAL
Lord----------------------------------|| MUSIC unto the Lord





    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jan 9, 2013 11:05 PM


 
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Anonymous
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130.127.42.38

Re: Did They Need It?

January 10 2013, 10:21 AM 

B said a few days ago...."We'd all like to know exactly when Rocky ripped Jude from his Bible, because he thinks that since Jude quotes the allededly uninspired Enoch, then Jude must also be uninspired."

That sort of statement, that analogy IS what makes this site despicable. Rocky NEVER inferred, from any notion or statement, that Jude must also be uninspired.

B's logic here is accusing Rocky of thinking "...that since Jude quotes the allededly uninspired Enoch, then Jude must also be uninspired."

This logic is false. Jude does quote Enoch, the person, but not necessarily the book. Jude never states that he gives credence to the book of Enoch. If the writings are similar from what Jude wrote and from what we see from the book of Enoch it may be only coincidental, as Jude NEVER gives credence that ALL or ANY of the book of Enoch to be inspired. THEREFORE if Rocky believes Enoch to be uninspired and an ADDITION to the Holy Word, it has nothing to do with what the writer Jude said.

FURTHERMORE this has nothing to do with one's (William Crump or "B") ability to logically think through these things, but his biased false notions on what HE believes to be right. He deliberately, falsely, and illogically sabotaged that accusation against Rocky.

Dave Fields__________


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jan 10, 2013 9:25 PM


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.63.106

Re: Did They Need It?

January 10 2013, 12:46 PM 

It seems that Dave gets his back up whenever someone mentions "Enoch." Just roll with it, dude. Don't be (too) embarrassed that ya couldn't show us where the Scriptures explicitly limit the biblical canon to only 66 books. Rocky couldn't do it, either. If ya don't think Enoch (who was INSPIRED enough to make a prophecy about God that Jude quoted) deserves a place in the biblical canon, well, you do have free will, which means you are "free" to make all the decisions you want...no matter how really, really wrong they may be. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.17.88

Re: Did They Need It?

January 10 2013, 1:10 PM 

There is not a command, example, inference or REVERENT place for playing instruments when God ONLY calls us into assembly to Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word. Just in case there are some little Jimmy Jump Ups, it EXCLUDES vocal or instrumental rejoicing or high-sounding rhetoric. That is because however you teach it the COMMANDED RESOURCE in the Old and New Testaments is to "use that which is written for our learning."

There is no command, example or remote inference that DISCIPLES could possibly use "machines for doing hard work mostly in making war and in creating the anxiety or shock and awe to create mental excitement which is the laded burden.

Both the Canonical and None canonical literature ALWAYS associates the use of musical machines--which have the power to disable your rational or spiritual mind--with Making war, soliciting sexual customers, or NOT-commanded God-repudiating sacrificial systems "to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter."

It is of BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS that most groups and especially Church of christ "scholars" mounted a sudden and violent attack upon those who NEVER used instruments making THEM into the agents of the Devil. They KNOW and PLAN to sow massive discord (create dissonance or madness) to try to force people to do what they do not want to do and up to half will flee Babylon (worship teams) because of the OUTED PERSONA when they may not have strong Biblical foundations.

[linked image]

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Did They Need It?

January 10 2013, 1:39 PM 

You never answered my question...."God has already listed every sin known to man. Name something that occurs, in thought or deed, which isn't listed?"

B said "Don't be (too) embarrassed that ya couldn't show us where the Scriptures explicitly limit the biblical canon to only 66 books."
I have already replied with the following...

The Preacher's Files
Sermon outlines, Bible Studies, Audio Sermons and more by preachers for the church of Christ.
By Mike Riley

Is The Bible Complete?

Additionally, James 1:25 states, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. The word perfect in this passage is translated from the Greek word, teleios which signifies having reached its end (telos), finished, complete, perfect. In James 1:25, the word is referring to the complete revelation of Gods will and ways, whether in the completed Scriptures or in the hearafter (Vines, 1996, p. 466).

I left out a few paragraphs from Mr. Riley because I had already posted the whole file PLUS B (William Crump) and everyone else had seen the whole file too.

Now William Crump, what say you? Would what you crooned about...be considered a deliberate false statement, since you did NOT respond to my post? Regardless of what you think or believe, you did not respond with a reply, only an illogical question, which is not acceptable. You should know that going back to medical school days.

It is unfortunate that you are upset.

Dave Fields______________


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jan 10, 2013 9:22 PM


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.203.194

Re: Did They Need It?

January 10 2013, 3:24 PM 

Since B knows that the Scriptures do not explicitly limit God's Word to 66 books, B can easily accept them as the CURRENT canon but would have no problem if other books like Enoch were proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to be inspired and worthy to be members of the canon.

On the other hand, Dave, who has closed his mind and has emphatically stated that God's Word is absolutely complete at 66 books, that it could never be expanded, would blow a gasket, lose all control, and suffer deep depression (or much worse) if Enoch or other books became part of the canon. Dave reminds me of the short-sighted head of the U.S. Patent Office in the 19th century who, according to legend, wanted to close the patent office, because "everything that could be invented has been invented." Although that is just a legend, Dave's similar, short-sighted attitude is real. Dave believes that, because MEN decided on the biblical canon, then no further books could possibly be inspired. Consider the absurdity of such an attitude, given the FACT that the Scriptures do not limit God's Word to a certain number of books.

It is unfortunate that Dave takes the word of MEN and is so quickly eager to limit and deny what God is certainly capable of doing.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.17.88

The ORIGIN of not permitted women to exercise AUTHORITY in the assembly.

January 10 2013, 1:43 PM 

When Paul outlawed female "authority"

http://www.piney.com/BabEaGifts.html

Fittingly Inanna got the father god Ea drunk before sealing the authority from him. That is the claim of the Vineyard or New Wineskings hostile takeover.

Research shows that the meaning of authentein changed dramatically over a period of 1,100 years. When we first find it in classical literature of the 6th century B.C., the word usually meant "to initiate" or "to be responsible for a murder." Jumping ahead to 200 or 300 A.D., this word usually meant "to claim ownership of property" either rightfully or wrongfully through fraud. During the same period it could also mean "to usurp power." However around the time the New Testament was written, the most common meaning of authentein was "to be, or claim to be the author or the originator of something." To underscore the point with a pun, this appears to be the authentic translation of authentein, the crucial verb of 1Timothy 1:12.

Musical worship teams ORIGINATED by claiming the authority of Jesus Christ: "to lead you into the presence of God." They will always ORIGINATE their version of truth: Paul in 1 Corinthians asks "Did the word ORIGINATE with you?" Of course, rhetoric has always been one of those effeminate roles and it comes as no surprise that they violated the same lay by ORIGINATING their own sermons.

The troublers at ACU seem bent on RESTORING women prophets or prophesiers. The prophesiers in all recorded history were most often women who gained power over males resulting in charismatic forms of what they laughingly call "worship services"--when Jesus sais that the kingdom DOES NOT come with observation meaning RELIGIOUS OBSERVATIONS they have abandoned themselves to perform.

The end-time Babylon Mother is the same Beginning Time Mother who was worshipped by the Jewish women at the temple. The Bible makes it certain that the Jerusalem Temple like all such institutions was plagued by both male and female prostitutes seeking whom they may devour.

I didn't say that THEY are guilty: I just say that they will never find any Biblical or other exception.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.13.99

Re: Did They Need It?

January 10 2013, 4:49 PM 

The Epistle of Barnabas: another opinion the Judaizers have to trump.

http://www.piney.com/FathEpBarna.html

Most religionism including the CHANGE or ecumenical rage among the not-ready-for-prime-time scholars and their dupes, want to restore the church to the Jacob-curse and God-abandoned Monarchy under the tribe of Levi. That is the ONLY positive "command" they hear by "a spirit" telling them that God commanded instrumental praise. The senior pastor system is also built upon the King Set over us who believes that HIS agenda it to deliberately sow discord and force you to JOIN the world instead of COMING OUT of the World.

We repeat that they PROMOTE their own agenda and have not a jot or tittle of support and indeed all recorded literature repudiates them as being evil. Jesus refused to PRAY for the World they want to join in a WORLD CONVENTION. God HIDES from the wise or SOPHIST: a sophist is a technically trained speaker, singer, instrument player or actor. Jesus called them hypocrites by pointing to Isaiah and Ezekiel 33 naming speakers, singers, instrument players and the ONLY audience they can collect.

The Epistle of Barnabas preserved complete in the 4th century Codex Sinaiticus where it appears at the end of the New Testament.

The Bible as we have it radically REPUDIATES musical instruments as the weapon of the Devil. There is no recorded example of the people assemblying for singing with instruments. All of the Church fathers and founders of denominations understood that there is NO RATIONALE for instruments and that instruments as at Mount Sinai stirs up the NEW WINESKIN and sexual urge.

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.193.13.99 on Jan 10, 2013 4:57 PM


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: Did They Need It?

January 10 2013, 11:19 PM 

:}


Just got to smile.......

Another good day!

David Fields________

(Surely you deserve credit for your smile.)



    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Jan 11, 2013 12:23 AM


 
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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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