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Scripture
(no login)
74.179.43.82

Re: Did They Need It?

January 21 2013, 11:53 PM 

One note of consolation for Dave Fields.

I haven't found anyone else has endorsed "B" in his openness to expand the scriptures beyond the 29 New Testament books. As "B" said,

It seems that Dave gets his back up whenever someone mentions "Enoch." Just roll with it, dude. Don't be (too) embarrassed that ya couldn't show us where the Scriptures explicitly limit the biblical canon to only 66 books. Rocky couldn't do it, either. If ya don't think Enoch (who was INSPIRED enough to make a prophecy about God that Jude quoted) deserves a place in the biblical canon, well, you do have free will, which means you are "free" to make all the decisions you want...no matter how really, really wrong they may be.

Is there any support for these statements? His statement wouldn't have anything to do with his wanting us to stop discussing the nature of the Spirit. . . . or would it?

Just a thought.

 
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B
(no login)
74.240.208.110

Re: Did They Need It?

January 22 2013, 9:12 AM 

Would Scripture's faith be shot if there actually were more than 66 books in the biblical canon?

Remember that for the longest time, men thought that the earth was flat. It was heresy to think otherwise. Then men thought that the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun rotated around the earth. It was heresy to think otherwise. But with careful study, men eventually accepted the fact that the earth is round and rotates around the sun.

Right now to many, it is heresy to think that the biblical canon could ever have more than 66 books. That belief is founded on man's opinions based on his limuted knowledge. But with continued, careful study...

I still haven't found anyone (Dave, Rocky, Scripture, others...) who can show where the Scriptures emphatically state that the biblical canon consists ONLY of 66 books.

Whether you continue to discuss the Holy Spirit or stop is of no concern to me. But sometimes it is a bit amusing to watch people wasting their time on debates that have no finality. happy.gif

 
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Scripture
(no login)
74.179.43.82

Book of Revelation

January 22 2013, 7:48 PM 

The book of Revelation does warn about adding to and subtracting from--I would take it to mean the book of Revelation alone, at least specifically.

B.B. Baxter said that every book that we have in the New Testament makes a claim, at least implicitly, that it is inspired.

When you find a book, B, that makes that claim I would be glad to sit down with you and see if it is worthy to be included. Ha! Ha! happy.gif

Or who would decide that it should be added? I'm sure our decision would not be final.

If the book conflicts with any of the 27 books, then it should be excluded. [I'm overlooking the fact that some of the New Testament books have very different points of view about various subjects, but would not go so far as to declare them as contradictions.]

There are some people out there that say 2 Timothy 3:16ff say that we are "thoroughly" furnished to all good works, and they would contradict you sharply about any possible future additions.

My only comment is that I haven't seen anyone walk with you that a new book can be added.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
74.179.43.82

Proof

January 22 2013, 8:03 PM 

B,

Can I prove with 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that we are completely (thoroughly) furnished and equipped for every good work? Would you accept that?

Now what about God and His providence? Would he allow us to go almost 2000 years without something that would profit us?

How do you deal with additions through the ages, such as the Nag Hammadi texts, and the canons, and The Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price?

Just asking, if you don't think that you will be spending your time doing something constructive, as you have mentioned before.

Isn't this a "soft issue" rather than a "hard issue."

I would assume that you are happy that the book of Enoch has not been included in our New Testament.






 
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B
(no login)
74.179.203.55

Re: Proof

January 22 2013, 9:51 PM 

Scripture asked, "Would [God] allow us to go almost 2000 years without something that would profit us?"

How do you know that God didn't give us many other books, but man in his folly was too ignorant or stupid to recognize them as inspired? Man's attitude went something like this: "We like these particular 66 books, so they are inspired and belong in the canon. However, we don't like that other set of books over there, so they are not inspired and should be pitched out!"

2 Tim. 3:16-17 doesn't tell us that the complete biblical canon consists of 66 books. Keep trying. happy.gif

As far as Enoch goes, if it is ever proven to be inspired, then I'll welcome it into the canon. Others undoubtedly would suffer a breakdown and go to pieces. happy.gif

 
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Scripture
(no login)
74.179.43.82

Re: Proof

January 22 2013, 11:04 PM 

The idea that there may be additions may be correct according to your logic. Maybe this is theoretical but not practical.

But it is not a very reassuring point of view, and many might walk away.

I'll doubt that you will be included on any heresy panel.

I can't endorse it, although I might understand it.

I'll leave it [for now].


 
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B
(no login)
98.87.21.54

Re: Proof

January 23 2013, 8:40 AM 

If people walk away, they walk away. After all, many people walk away when they hear the Gospel. They consider and say, "Naw, a life of obeying somebody upstairs and being goody-good just ain't for me!"

So be it.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
74.179.43.82

Walking away

January 23 2013, 12:44 PM 

Could this be the problem with the change agents?

They had rather have people walk away than not to be able to get what they want.

Even to the destruction and depopulation of the church they feel entitled to get their way.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
74.179.43.82

Walking away

January 23 2013, 1:12 PM 

Some had trouble equating real bread with the word of God; and real blood with the sacrifice on the cross. For this reason they no longer walked with Him.

John 6:66 Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, Would ye also go away? 68 Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69And we have believed and know that thou art the Holy One of God. ASV

Some will leave church for what appears to be the most frivolous reason--like they got shunned, or someone hurt their feelings, or in the extreme, that God let their father die, and so forth.

Others will stay regardless of most every situation--through persecution, lack of being respected, until the very end.


 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.1.106

Re: Walking away

January 23 2013, 1:57 PM 

Property is always collected with the PROMISE that WE want to do good work for the Lord. Before the change agents went to law to CHANGE the by laws or CONTRACT, church was a ONE ANOTHER event.

The purpose driven cult and Promise Keepers shows how to collect the property, change the by laws and then say WOW! I know that I made a promise to YOU but that was THEN and this is NOW. (Rick Atchley).

Then since YOU let YOUR property slip through your praying hands, then YOU have to get over it or GET OUT.

It is OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS that this is happening by people claiming to be Christians who learned their CRAFTY CRAFT at ACU etal.

The EMBODIMENT planned to DIVERT my monies collected FOR THE LOUR--DE-UH.

http://www.piney.com/Russ.Adcox.More.Thoughts.On.Silence.html

When we had our combined worship with the Christian church [to Pass Judgment] their pastor talked about great sayings from our heritage (we both come from the Restoration movement).

He included the saying we are silent where the Bible is silent. That might have surprised some of our folks. How could he use that phrase?
.....Wouldnt it mean he should give up the instrument?
Not necessarily.
.....He gave me a different understanding of the quote.

If the Bible is silent on something
.....we shouldnt take that issue and make it an essential doctrine.
.....Instead we should also be silent on it and not allow our opinions to divide us.
.........In other words, regardless of how you view silence,
...;;;..you shouldnt make it a matter of fellowship or salvation.

We shouldnt draw lines in the sand based on what God has not said.
.....If He didnt feel the need to comment on it then why do we?
.....I think the exact words were where the Bible speaks, we speak;
.....where the Bible is silent, we shut up.


I have noted that the evidence is clear that there are two races of people involved: those of the WORLD or Kosmos for whom Jesus refused to pray and the WISE or Sophists (speakers, singers, instrument players) FROM WHO GOD HIDES HIMSELF. John calls the speakers, singers and instrument SORCERERS and says they will (are) cast alive into the Lake of Fire.

The above Logic is the logic of the WORLD: they decide to IMPOSE something and YOU MUST KEEP SILENT. And they WILL enforce their LAW OF SILENCE.

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.112.88

Re: Walking away

January 23 2013, 2:18 PM 

"B", son, you better circle the wagons! Set up a strawman! Do something! They are coming for you! I just don't see the logic in you being the fall guy!

happy.gif

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.14.120

Re: Walking away

January 23 2013, 2:44 PM 

No need to play cowboys and Indians by circling wagons, setting up strawmen, calling for help from the Lone Ranger and Tonto, or singing "Home on the Range" and spittin' tobacco around the ole campfire. Neither those tactics nor haggling over the price of tea in China will ever prove that the biblical canon is complete with only 66 books. happy.gif

 
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Scripture
(no login)
74.179.43.82

Logic and the Fall Guy

January 23 2013, 3:30 PM 

Concerning the mystery of the "fall guy."

Matthew 13:10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11And he answered and said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables; because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

happy.gif

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.12.241

Re: Logic and the Fall Guy

January 23 2013, 6:01 PM 

Is Scripture trying to tell us that Matt. 13:10-13 has the words "66 books" hidden somewhere in it and all we have to do, if we have been "given to know," is to "see" it?

Well, keep trying! happy.gif

 
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Scripture
(no login)
74.179.43.82

Re: Walking Away

January 23 2013, 6:08 PM 

Who knows? Maybe a lost book of Paul or Peter will be found!

 
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Rocky
(no login)
98.81.68.193

Re: Logic and the Fall Guy

January 23 2013, 6:13 PM 

Well, that didn't take long to figure out who "it" was leading this hatchet job!

__________________

What's your point, Rocky? Please explain.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Jan 24, 2013 12:15 AM


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.210.203

Re: Walking Away

January 23 2013, 6:43 PM 

Ya never know. They may be found in excavations of ancient ruins or finally recognized as inspired from that pile of previously "rejected" books. happy.gif

____________________

Let's hope that the "rejected" Apocryphal books [that are in Roman Catholic versions] are not included in non-Catholic translations/versions.

Please do not respond to this post.

"B" has the final word, alright?


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Jan 23, 2013 11:51 PM


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Circular Logic

January 24 2013, 12:07 AM 

I have an idea -- there may be words hidden somewhere in the Holy Scripture: "66 books may not be complete; in latter times some may excavate some more before the world ends and decide a few more books are to be canonized."

happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif

(Please do not respond to this nonsensical assertion.}

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Who Might Volunteer?

January 22 2013, 11:24 PM 

Guess what?

I'm sure that through several hundreds of years now, there have been several "writings" that committees and councils have strongly considered as canon-worthy. happy.gif

Does anyone want to volunteer to do this research extensively?

Then, we form our own committee (headed by Dave Fields) and decide for ourselves [us ... earthlings] which existing books in the Bible have lost their canonized status and be removed and which books from our research should be canonized.

As we know it is not uncommon that some religious leaders, if given the choice, would remove certain chapters and verses, even certain books, from the Holy Scripture.

Of course, I was being facetious.

FYI, Dave, no one here is suggesting that the Book of Enoch should be canonized and added to the Bible. But QUOTING from Enoch is no different from quoting from the writings of the early church fathers to prove what the Bible has already said.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: Did They Need It?

January 23 2013, 2:31 PM 

B said "Others undoubtedly would suffer a breakdown and go to pieces."

For B....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuZTk1hdpMs

Posted by:
David Fields, Elder
Clemson, SC


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Jan 23, 2013 11:32 PM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

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The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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