Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.5.100

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 15 2013, 9:54 PM 

The grouping of 1-in-3 or 3-in-1 is THEOLOGY Neither exists except as the trinity is defined in the beginning

Thought and Breath and Word

The One God thinks, breathes and speaks: He speaks His Own Words. They are begotten by Him and therefore they are His Son.

There is ONE GOD (theos)

And there is ONE LORD [Kurios] and Mediator: He is the MAN Jesus whom God MADE to be both Lord and Christ.

In the flesh Jesus was the ONE IMAGE as the antithesis of the always-pagan father, mother (spirit) and son.

In His glorified State Jesus of Nazareth ceased to be the WORD of God as audible and visible, and is now the Holy Spirit or MIND of God.

If you need to JAM another Spirit People between the FATHER and SON then John calls you ANTICHRIST.

When John speaks of Father and Son he follows the PATTERN of all of the Epistles which omit "The Holy Spirit" when Christ had guided the Apostles into all truth.

You deny that Jesus as Lord "made the partial prophets more certain" and thereafter the salutations RECOGNIZES

The One God the Father
And Jesus Christ as His SON

Inserting a SPIRIT person in these concluding letters would indicate that Jesus as Comforter had NOT commpleted THAT WHICH IS PERFECT. Perfection came when EACH eye-- and ear-- witness of the resurrected Jesus "left a memory" for everyone else.

The WORD is THE SPIRIT, the double-edged-sword as the only power in this post-direct operation period.

There is ONE and ONE and not 3-in-1 which is an antichrist graven image.

 
 Respond to this message   
A-Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 15 2013, 11:51 PM 

Ken, thanks for keeping them short. My short attention span allowed me to read every one of your posts. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 16 2013, 12:51 AM 

A-Won,

The smiley image is good medicine.

Be reminded of Ken's engineering background and Donnie's IT programming/analysis experience. Being thorough, detailed, precise and accurate in logic flow can often eliminate anomalies. So, the reader's patience may be necessary at times. sad.gif


 
 Respond to this message   
A-Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 16 2013, 9:21 AM 

Donnie, I worked for many years as a hardware tech with the software guys. I know all about the world of "reboot" to correct a logic problem. Could that explain the multiple "Holy Spirit" threads?

I also worked as a avionics tech on the early Aim-9 Sidewinder program. I recall one engineer that was so full of "hot air" that he had to be reassigned due to his heat signature interfering with the guidance system of the Sidewinders.

Now I am just having a little fun, everyone have a great weekend. happy.gif


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.5.100

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 16 2013, 11:03 AM 

And my first project was Sidewinder-Vacuum Tube Style.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 18 2013, 6:29 PM 

A-Won,

I appreciate the humor.

There are so many aspects to the study of "the Holy Spirit" which is a.k.a. God's Holy Spirit [in caps for your benefit happy.gif ]; and 10 threads may not be enough. happy.gif

-- Is "the Holy Spirit" a separate Divine Being called God?
-- What is the history of the Trinity Creed?
-- Why the inconsistency in translation between "it" and "he"...?
-- Why the inconsistency in translation of "the Holy Spirit" in caps or not
-- Can we readily accept translators being Trinity Creed-influenced?
-- What is the significance of the expression "the Spirit OF..."?
-- Did the Jews/Hebrew people think "Trinity" in regard to "the Spirit of God"
-- Why is the expression "Holy Ghost" never mentioned in the Old Testament?
-- Of the few instances "the holy Spirit" is mentioned in the O.T. ...
-- ... why is the expression preceded by "thy" or "his" to indicate something that belongs?
-- How to resolve Paul's salutations excluding the "Holy Spirit"
-- Why is "the Holy Spirit" excluded in "the Godhead" per Col. 2:1-9?
-- What if the Nicene Creed and the Emperor had not invented the Trinity?

... just to name a few ["the half has never yet been told."]

There goes the experienced "logic analyst" who does not want to miss anything. happy.gif


 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.205.4

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 18 2013, 7:01 PM 

[... ... ...]

========================


Bill,

While CM allows anyone to initiate FREELY one or more threads of his own, it [this forum] cannot be governed by anyone's rule to limit the number of threads it wants to publish related to a subject matter.

Please feel free to participate when you are prepared to discuss specifics, instead of:

(a) stating generalizations ["it does not matter" is not an argument];
(b) re-stating the premise of a creed and letting that serve AS YOUR argument [when the discussion is about THAT premise to begin with];
(c) ignoring specific questions to which specific answers may help clarify.



    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Aug 18, 2013 9:31 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.245.51

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 18 2013, 10:42 PM 

You really don't want anyone to mention the Trinity in a thread that supposedly discusses the Trinity, do you? It really does no good to post [...] and then add a comment, because no one can see the original message to which you are "responding." You look like you're talking to thin air. Now post this with [...]. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Prove It

August 19 2013, 12:47 AM 

No, we want proof or evidence that the Trinity CREED is Scripture-based. As I said, simply repeating the CREED and presenting it as "your argument" doesn't prove anything.

It's no different from stating a Roman Catholic doctrine that the Virgin Mary is "the Mother of God" because Jesus is God ... and then using it and re-stating it as your argument -- that does not prove anything, either.

A good discussion involves questions being answered, scriptural references to prove or disprove, what theologians and scholars have to say, pointing out translation discrepancies [when they occur], quoting from historical sources, etc.

"It does not matter" is NOT an argument; it is NOT a solution -- that simply means that any doctrine is fine and acceptable, whether it is Scripture-proven or in error.

If you prefer, and this is an opportunity, prove one aspect of the Trinity Creed. Just one for now (so, we're making this simple). Here it is:

PROVE [show scriptural references] where it says that "the Holy Spirit" OF God is the Third Divine Person in the Trinity Doctrine, separate from God, but is also called "God."



 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.245.140

Re: Prove It

August 19 2013, 2:51 AM 

I have no need to "prove" what I've never said. I've never said the Trinity creed is Scripture-based, nor have I ever said that the Holy Spirit is God. I've said on a number of occasions that it matters not how we perceive the Holy Spirit: member of the Trinity or not; person or not. WHY DO I BELIEVE THAT? Our perception of the Holy Spirit would matter IF our eternal salvation depended on that perception. However, there is NO SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE that explicitly links our eternal salvation with our perception of the Holy Spirit. We are given NO indication that if we believe the Holy Spirit is a member of the Trinity, then we'll be damned, or that if we reject the Trinity creed, then we'll be saved--NO indication whatsoever. Therefore, appointing themselves as spiritual judges and fantasizing themselves as possessing the keys to heaven and hell, arrogant people dictate how we are to perceive the Holy Spirit.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Prove It

August 19 2013, 4:03 AM 

I gather that it "DOES NOT MATTER" to you and that we're not to discuss this issue anymore. You've repeated this philosophical "advice" countless times already. And we've heard you just as many times also.

Bill, we are Bible students here. Maybe you're not. But we, Bible students, are still learning. I'll be the first one to admit that as much as we have presented already, quoting hundreds of passages from Scripture, providing historical backgrounds and facts, I AM STILL LEARNING!!!! This discussion encourages me to continually search the Scriptures. Evidently, that's not the case with you.

Let CM tell you that we will continue to study this doctrine even without your recycled remarks. I don't expect anymore that you will ever understand what we're trying to achieve in pursuing this discussion. So, please do not waste your precious time replying to this message as your predicted response [above] has already been published.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.242.74

Re: Prove It

August 19 2013, 11:36 AM 

We can discuss the issue all we want. There are hundreds of biblical issues that can be discussed, but with many of them, the New Testament gives no indication that which side we take determines our eternal destiny; thus, such discussions become academic. Nevertheless, arguing about those non-salvation issues can still provide an interesting pastime.

With non-salvation issues, the problem arises when people become so wrapped up in their own personal beliefs that they insist that everyone believe as they do, that views or beliefs different from their own are "wrong." Such people may even imply that all who differ with them are bound for hell. That's going too far.

Donnie, I surely hope you are not one who believes that people's souls are in grave jeopardy if they embrace the Trinity or believe that the Holy Spirit is a "person" or that the Holy Spirit is God. If you say, "Let God be the judge," then you imply that God has no scriptural directive that explicitly links salvation with how we MUST perceive the Holy Spirit. If there were such an explicit directive and people STILL believed differently, THEN there would be cause for concern over people's souls. THEN there would be justification to try to convince people to follow God's explicit directive. We may have strong convictions about how we perceive the Holy Spirit, and it is natural to want to surround ourselves with others having similar beliefs. But in the long run, let's not get worked up and our noses bent out of joint when people express their different perceptions of the Holy Spirit.

======================

Ken,

How much denser than this man can one get? I haven't saved this one at all (probably should before losing it). But we're keeping it here not approved. Whenever we need humor, we can always come back here and read it. He'll just have to assume it's been saved and then deleted.

I sense loneliness -- he has nothing else to do or whatever he does is non-constructive.

He certainly wasted his time -- contrary to an advanced warning. Sad.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Aug 19, 2013 11:19 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.8.144

Re: Prove It

August 19 2013, 12:53 PM 

Buck Owens & Roy Clark

Gloom, despair, and agony on me
Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all
Gloom, despair, and agony on me

We figured she was rich, loaded to the hilt
And we figured she had class like the Vanderbilts
'Cause we had heard for years how she was so well reared
How was we to know they meant the way she was built

Gloom, despair, and agony on me
Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all
Gloom, despair, and agony on me

 
 Respond to this message   
A-Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 16 2013, 9:54 AM 

I believe Jesus explained "the three yet one" very well. A singular name with three parts. Yes, yes indeed.

The Great Commission

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.5.100

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 16 2013, 11:21 AM 

ONLY Christians with A holy spirit can understand this.

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them,
.....Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
Acts 4:9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man,
.....by what means he is made whole;
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel,
.....that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,
.....whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead,
.....even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders,
.....which is become the head of the corner.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other:
.....for there is none other name under heaven given among men,
.....whereby we must be saved.


Back to reading.

 
 Respond to this message   
A-Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Rubel Shelly Trinity

August 17 2013, 9:51 AM 

Testing, 1,2,3,4

 
 Respond to this message   
A-Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

OFF TOPIC

August 16 2013, 1:32 PM 

Donnie, I think a trouble ticket needs to be submitted to Network54. The sequencer of posted messages is not working correctly. My Great Commission post should have been just below Ken's 3-in-1 post.

Thanks

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: OFF TOPIC

August 16 2013, 11:25 PM 

I'll take a look and explain. Sometimes I use a ruler or marker to check the alignment. Any and all immediate responses to the preceding post are indented by 2 or 3 characters.

It is often difficult to determine the post that Dave Fields is responding to because he does not click the "Respond to this message" button.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.5.100

Re: OFF TOPIC

August 16 2013, 11:31 PM 

I probably posted before approving!

 
 Respond to this message   
A-Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: OFF TOPIC

August 17 2013, 11:52 AM 

Confirmed. Mystery solved. Thanks Ken.

 
 Respond to this message   
 
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter