Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
William
(no login)
108.28.133.45

Godhead ???

February 28 2013, 2:42 PM 


I wonder where and when we first started using the term "the Godhead", proper noun, so generally within the church? The term "godhead" is a quirk of the King James, and has nothing to do with Father/Son/Holy Spirit, and appears only in the King James. When I was a youth coming up, and even youthful, my goodness how long has that been, we were taught to avoid that term. Clearly, there was a duality with Jesus. He had power unbound that he could choose when and where to use, yet there was knowledge that only the Father possessed. But when he said things like "he who has seen me has seen the Father" were not given in a literal circumstance. Wasn't there someone burned at the stake for merely pointing out that the word trinity is not found in the Bible?

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.162.203

Re: Trinity as Graven Image

February 24 2013, 10:09 PM 

Here is the Egyptian and Catholic Mother and Child

Osiris, Isis and Horus were worshipped under the APIS bull calf as a sin beyond redemption. Here is Osiris:

[linked image]

The little SUN WAFER Catholics get while the "father" gets the wine is marked IHS. In this case the sun gods are Isis, Horus and Set.

You will notice that MARY is the mediatrix and they want to keep the little Jesus meek and mild an eternal mewling infant.

[linked image]

Here is Isis wearing the Apis Horns and the SUN disc. The SUN disc that Catholics eat as not worthy of the Lord's Supper, is derived from the DUNG BALL rolled by the TUMBLE BUG they made into jewelry. Gilgal where Israel WENT TO SIN was also an emblem of the DUNG GOD.

[linked image]




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.197.162.203 on Feb 24, 2013 10:39 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.162.203

Re: Some HISTORIC views of the Trinity: never three PEOPLE

February 24 2013, 4:13 PM 

The concept of the trinity denied three persons or people. However, this dogma has evolved and churches of Christ get their dogma from the MOTHER church without bothering to read what all of the scholars taught.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm


[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.162.203

Re: Some HISTORIC views of the Trinity: never three PEOPLE

February 24 2013, 10:24 PM 

[linked image]
[linked image]


[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.197.175.1 on Feb 25, 2013 11:34 AM


 
 Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.175.1

Re: Some HISTORIC views of the Trinity: never three PEOPLE

February 25 2013, 11:44 AM 

[linked image]
[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.197.175.1 on Feb 25, 2013 12:13 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Serious
(no login)
98.81.72.33

Re: Some HISTORIC views of the Trinity: never three PEOPLE

February 25 2013, 12:46 PM 

Ken, I guess it's picture day. Don't forget the Mother figure....Ellen G. White.

[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Some HISTORIC views of the Trinity: never three PEOPLE

February 25 2013, 1:24 PM 

Serious,

Thanks so much for the Mother figure image. You're not saying it is the image of "the Mother of God," are you?

Can you do some research on pictures for me, please? I'd like to see a picture of a member of the other Triad. I'm referring to the third (a different) person of the Trinity Creed -- God the Holy Ghost. (The picture of a dove descending from heaven -- well, I'm not sure if that should count. Such a picture would not depict a PERSON -- I don't think.)

From what I've studied, I'm presenting the Godhead by the timeline:

(1) God the Father is a Spirit -- the Holy Spirit
(2) The Word in the beginning manifest in the FLESH, the Son Jesus Christ (while the Father is always the Holy Spirit.
(3) Upon resurrection, Jesus Christ had to be that Comforter [in "spirit" form] and Spirit of truth. All this is explained in context in John 14 and 16.

Jesus Christ was in human form while living with his disciples. When he was resurrected, he was no longer in human form. Instead, he is now in his "spirit" form -- the Comforter and Spirit of truth.

Scripturally, we do not deal with 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person. We think of the Godhead in terms of God in the beginning, the Word who was in the beginning with God, when the Word became flesh, and what occurs after the resurrection of Christ.

There is NOT another person labeled as the Holy Ghost. The Scripture has never revealed to me the THIRD PERSON. That's human thinking. Is there an entity? Yes. Is there another person? No.

 
 Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.175.1

Re: Some HISTORIC views of the Trinity: never three PEOPLE

February 25 2013, 1:41 PM 

Yes, I could admire such a person. She was no dummy but I think she (like me) copied lots of material which is educational.

I could never make it in the "ministry" because I always try to tell where I swiped it. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Some HISTORIC views of the Trinity: never three PEOPLE

February 25 2013, 3:55 PM 

I gather that the Movement and the Church which she founded is doing well in its world evangelism.

Ken, a technical writer/resource person with his extensive research experience/library collection would not be suited for doing any modern/post-modern "ministry." Specifically, you would be fired for being a terrible "Worship Leader." The main reason for that is that you would be spending a lot of time explaining and exposing "musical idolatry" to the elders.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.175.1

Re: Some HISTORIC views of the Trinity: never three PEOPLE

February 25 2013, 7:43 PM 

The Disciples-Christian Churches having seduced a few ANTI-instrumentalists (worthy of destruction for not affirming)spread most of their RACA words against faithful churches as being EXCLUSIVISTS. Whey they will INCLUDE anyone who puts something in the pot, they would hurt you real bad if you showed up quoting the Bible.

The Advent Message

In 1840 and 1842 Ellen, with other members of the family, attended Adventist meetings in Portland, accepted the views presented by William Miller and his associates, and confidently looked for Christ's imminent return. Ellen was an earnest missionary worker, seeking to win her youthful friends and doing her part in heralding the Advent message.

The keenness of the Great Disappointment that Jesus did not return to earth on October 22, 1844 was not lessened by Ellen's youth, and she, with others, studied the Bible and prayed earnestly for light and guidance in the succeeding days of perplexity.


The Disciples of Christ / Christian Churches did not give up either.

Contrary to the most common lie that the Churches of Christ became a SECTARIAN defection from the Disciples of Christ-Christian Churches in 1906, it is a fact that Alexander Campbell denied that there COULD be any 'union' in Barton W. Warren's "denominational sense BEFORE a few handshakes in 1832 and he scoffed at the idea that the Reformers had "come over to the Christians" as Stone boasted.

The Disciples-Christians fell in with William Miller and agreed that, they TOO, had to organize and go to Israel and SAVE ALL OF THE JEWS to make it POSSIBLE for Jesus to return in 1844. They organized the first SOCIETY and went to Israel but the Jews just didn't want to be saved.

Leading up to this proof that the Disciples and Reformers had nothing in common, Campbell used USED the title MILLENNIAL HARBINGER to DEBUNK all millennial views. That does not keep the changeling-hirelings like John Mark Hicks and others at LU claiming that then need to RECLAIM the views of Hardeman. The Encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell Movement BIG FAT LIE by Douglas Foster has been accepted as the Bible (Babble) of the changelings. He quotes as fact about the Miller-White-SDA movement what Campbell called THE VIEW OF THE DENOMINATIONS.

http://www.piney.com/NACC.2013.Victorius.Review.html

Of course fellowship of the assemblies was pretty easy before the INSTITUTES and INSTRUMENTS saw easy pickings and made future collective assemblies impossible.

By 1849 the Disciples-Christians had formed the first Missionary Society and by 1851 the first organ was forced in by the non-believing preacher, removed by an elder, and replaced by the preacher.

You will notice that those with similar views have approved Sabbatarianism use that day to introduce INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE with the promise that it will never be introduced in the "PLENARY" session.

The NACC 2013 Victorious are USING two of their favorite VICTORIES: Randy Harriss and Rick Atchley HANDLED by David Faust the then President of the NACC.

 
 Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.170.113

Re: Some HISTORIC views of the Trinity: never three PEOPLE

February 26 2013, 7:56 PM 

Gregory Thaumaturgus "For we do not hold that which the heretics imagine: that some part of the Being of God was converted into the Son, or that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existent substances, that is, from a Being outside himself, so that there were a time when he [the Son] did not exist" (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:4:1 [A.D. 225]).

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.197.170.113 on Feb 26, 2013 8:03 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.170.113

Gregory Part B speaking for Scripture and all historic scholars

February 27 2013, 1:36 PM 

[linked image]

ALL authority or NAME of the prophet or apostle is THE WORD. The thought, breath and articulated word is under the HUMAN Name of Jesus Christ the Righteous the PROMISED Paraclete.

There is nothing more to speak: no one has the power to private interpret or further expound since NO ONE hears from the ONE GOD THE FATHER but the SON and those HE selected and empowered to preach and record their memory.

 
 Respond to this message   
Serious
(no login)
98.81.72.33

Re: Gregory Part B speaking for Scripture and all historic scholars

February 27 2013, 10:36 PM 

This comes from the most conservative coC that I have come across in my neck of the woods.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

JESUS IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT



1. One verse is enough to answer this error." And whosoever shall speak against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in that which is to come" (Mt. 12:32). If a man could be forgiven for speaking against the SON, but not for speaking against the HOLY SPIRIT, clearly the Holy Spirit is not the Son. That should be enough proof, but there is much more.



2. Jesus said: "But the comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the FATHER will send in MY name..." (Jn. 14:26). The Holy Spirit would be sent from the Father "in the name" (by the authority or request) of the Son. That is THREE persons, or Jesus was saying that He would send Himself from Himself. In verse 16 of the same chapter, Jesus said: "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter..." If there was no other Comforter than Himself, Jesus was misleading the apostles. When He used the word another, He used the Greek word allos which expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort (W.E. Vine).



3. When Jesus was baptized, the SPIRIT descended as a dove, and the FATHER said, "this is my beloved SON, in whom I am well pleased." The Jesus only doctrine has Jesus on earth, also descending from heaven in the form of a dove, and speaking to himself from heaven to commend himself. That is not Bible doctrine!



The writer teaches that the Father is Jesus. In arguing that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are titles of Jesus, he says: "I am a father, I'm a son; and I'm a husband. But none of these is my name." Then he said: "Let us light a candle and speak of it as the father, call that the flame if you may. Then call the light that the flame gives off the Son and separate it if you can" (p. 17).



If you want more..http://midwaychurchofchrist.org/godhead_and_baptism_name_of_christ.htm



 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Gregory Part B speaking for Scripture and all historic scholars

February 28 2013, 4:12 AM 

Not surprised at all ("conservative" or "liberal" is not really a factor when it comes to this subject matter vs. other doctrinal matters):

RESPONSE TO (1): That's a good, scriptural contrast. There is a difference between: (a) the nature and role of the Son Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh; and (b) the nature and role of the Holy Spirit -- not in human, physical form.

RESPONSE TO (2): When Jesus Christ was with his disciples, he DWELT WITH them and was their "physical" Comforter; he was also the TRUTH [remember: "I am the way, the TRUTH and the life"].

There was a promise of the Holy Spirit to his disciples when he was living with them in human form. Jesus also promised not to leave them COMFORTLESS [as he was already their (physical) comforter]; promised to come to them; promised to DWELL IN [in "spirit" as dwelling in them physically would be an impossibility].

Upon his resurrection, Jesus Christ became that Holy Spirit: the Comforter and the Spirit of truth. This is clearly explained in context in John chapters 14-16.

RESPONSE TO (3): Refer to the responses above -- Jesus in human form and a representation of the Spirit prior to his resurrection. Jesus Christ, in his DIVINE nature, is now the COMFORTER and the SPIRIT OF TRUTH.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.179.13.225

Re: Gregory Part B speaking for Scripture and all historic scholars

February 28 2013, 4:27 PM 

"Upon his resurrection, Jesus Christ became that Holy Spirit: the Comforter and the Spirit of truth."

Actually, the Holy Spirit/Ghost existed even before the birth of Jesus on earth. As Matt. 1:18 says, Mary was found to be with child of/by the Holy Ghost. That meant the Holy Ghost was responsible for Mary's pregnancy at that time. Jesus said that after His resurrection, He would send the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Spirit of truth to teach His apostles all things and abide with them. Jesus also said the Father (God) would send the Comforter in Jesus' name (John 14:26). Sure sounds like Jesus was talking about another spiritual entity. But since that would just revive the old debate of "Trinity" vs. One entity with three subcomponents, it's better just to believe in the concept of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit without complicating matters by trying to subclassify them.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Gregory Part B speaking for Scripture and all historic scholars

February 28 2013, 11:38 PM 

Of course, the Holy Spirit existed before Christ's birth -- but that was God the Father, a Spirit and holy -- remember John 4:21-24?

I'm afraid you are taking John 14-16 out of context still. You have ignored all the references to Christ not leaving his disciples comfortless and coming to them as their Comforter in spirit after his resurrection. "Another" does not create a THIRD PERSON. "Another" simply means different in nature -- a contrast between: (1) Christ in human form while DWELLING WITH his disciples and (2) Christ in his spirit form after his resurrection to DWELL IN them. All that is explained in John 14-16.

A careful study of the timeline should simplify the mystery of God: The Word with God in the beginning was made flesh; Jesus lived as a human and died; upon his resurrection his form or nature was no longer physical or human. What does that leave you except Christ being the Spirit of truth and the Comforter? There is definitely no categorization in the Godhead. The papacy-invented Trinity doctrine indeed categorizes -- and it is very confusing.

The Scripture-based "Godhead" is simple. There is no categorizing in the relationship between God the Father and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. There is not another person. Read Col. 2 and Romans 1.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.179.204.80

Re: Gregory Part B speaking for Scripture and all historic scholars

March 1 2013, 12:36 AM 

I'm afraid you are making all this much more complicated than it really is. It's all very simple: Father, Son, Holy Spirit, just like Jesus said. No divisions. No subclassifications.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

The Godhead Is Really Simple

March 1 2013, 1:01 AM 

Let the Scripture simplify it all for you.

Colossians 2:2,9 -- "That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the MYSTERY OF GOD, and of THE FATHER, and of CHRIST; ... For in him [CHRIST] dwelleth all the FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily."

When you ADD a third, distinct person God in the Godhead, you have a problem.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.179.210.99

Re: The Godhead Is Really Simple

March 1 2013, 1:44 AM 

I don't ADD any "person" to the Godhead. The Godhead is spirit and therefore cannot be a physical person/persons. You have a problem when you complicate matters by subclassifying them beyond Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 
 Respond to this message   
B
(no login)
74.179.246.72

Re: The Godhead Is Really Simple

March 1 2013, 11:16 AM 

If there is not a "third" entity in the Godhead, then Jesus must have had a problem, because He explicitly listed Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--three entities, beings, concepts, or what have you. Of course, He neither called them "Trinity" as such, nor did He call them "people" or "persons." The latter implies a physical component, which cannot apply to heavenly beings, because they are not physical entities.

That's why it is pointless to keep dissecting the Godhead beyond the designations that Jesus used: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, while keeping in mind the synonyms that Jesus gave to the Holy Spirit: Comforter and Spirit of truth.

 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 12 3 4 5 611 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter