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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.167.214

Re: Make It Simple: It Is "the Holy Spirit OF God"

April 15 2013, 11:43 PM 

The Holy Spirit Comforter or Paraclete of John 14 is named

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
.....And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
.....Jesus Christ the righteous:


God the ONE SPIRIT breathes on the Son and the Son articulates His Words.
Because the WORDS come from the ONE SPIRIT then they are from God because neither "spirit" nor "son" speak on their own.
When God's Words are spoken, validated and witnessed they become SPIRIT for us.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
.....the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus SPOKE the Words but He denies that He THOUGHT the Words.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, [A holy spirit: ours]
.....and ye know all things.
1John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth,
.....but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
.....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


The ONE God made Jesus of NAZARETH to be both His Lord and Christ.
Therefore "Lord and Christ and Son" are not part of the ONE GOD.

.....Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
........that God [the holy ONE]
........hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
........both Lord and Christ.

1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
........and one mediator between God and men,
........the MAN Christ Jesus;


There is just one SON and one FATHER the Almighty.
The Father gave the Son his own power because we do not HEAR the Father.
Therefore, people are ANTI-christs because to deny that Jesus is SON and not the ALMIGHTY
denies one the power to acknowledged the ONE God the Father.

1John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
.....(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you,
.....which ye have heard from the beginning.
.....If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you,
.....ye also shall continue IN the Son, and IN the Father.
1John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


If you deny that you do not have eternal life according to John.

God is not BINARY either. There is just ONE God and there can be no more.
God spoke through the PROPHETS but now in the LAST DAYS He speaks
Through His SON.

If our relationship is with the Father then we can grasp the Spirit OF God.
If our relationship is with the Son then we can grasp the Spirit OF the Son.
This is why John does not speak of being IN or in relationship with a separated Holy Spirit god person.
If you deny the Father (deity) - Son (filled with deity) relationship then John says that you are a ANTI-christ.

If you say it doesn't matter then it just doesn't matter

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.210.89

Make It Simple: It Can Be BOTH

April 16 2013, 12:00 AM 

Does the New Testament command us to adopt Matt. 28:19 as the ONLY correct concept regarding this matter? NO.

Does the New Testament command us to adopt the many passages of "the spirit of..." as the ONLY correct concept regarding this matter? NO.

BTW, don't think for one minute that because there are some 70 passages about "the spirit of..." then Matt. 28:19 is "outvoted" or is null and void. ALL those passages have EQUAL WEIGHT.

Then what is your problem? We are not commanded that one concept is THE one-and-only concept and all others are wrong and sinful. YOU think accepting Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is not THE concept to adopt, because the Catholics and so-called "Trinitarians" have adopted that concept. The Father-Son-Holy Spirit concept is just as biblical (Matt. 28:19) as is the concept of "the spirit of..."

Some people like me relate more to the Father-Son-Holy Spirit concept WITHOUT envisioning them as persons or physical entities or "Trinity" or "triad" or any other thing. That's fine. Other people like you relate more to "the spirit of..." concept. That's also fine, but you take it a step further and imply that, unless everyone adopts YOUR concept of this matter, then they are absolutely dead wrong.

Because the New Testament allows us the freedom to adopt either concept, because the New Testament does not threaten EITHER concept with a damnation clause, then yes indeed, we actually CAN have it both ways.

See how utterly simple it all is?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Even Much Simpler: The Spirit of God Is THE Holy Spirit

April 16 2013, 12:49 AM 

B,

Just trust the Holy Scripture: there is no controversy in ALL those passages.

The 70 references to "the holy spirit" are telling YOU and ME that it is THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT mentioned "in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit."

WHOSE spirit is it? God's or Christ's or the Father's -- that is the simple answer to that simple question that you've been so AFRAID and ASHAMED to answer.

God did not intend for man to invent, discover, create or generate ANOTHER "holy spirit" to be masculine-gendered and called "God" by man.

But the Bible says there is only ONE SPIRIT -- Ephesians 4:4.

And that ONE SPIRIT, the Bible says again, is "the holy spirit 'OF GOD'" -- Ephesians 4:30.



 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Scriptures' References to "the Holy Spirit OF...": Concept or Truth?

April 16 2013, 1:03 AM 

It's really unfortunate that the 70 scriptural references to "the [holy] spirit OF _______" are just a "concept" to you.

Those scriptures are "truth" -- not "concept."

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.12.155

Re: Scriptures' References to "the Holy Spirit OF...": Concept or Truth?

April 16 2013, 2:15 AM 

Is not the CONCEPT of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit biblical truth?

Is not the CONCEPT of "the spirit of..." also biblical truth?

I recognize BOTH CONCEPTS as biblical truths, but I sense that you cannot fully accept the CONCEPT of "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" as an equal, biblical truth. To you, the CONCEPT of "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" means Catholic Trinity akin to a pagan triad; hence, it is an untruthful CONCEPT to you.

You have to take Father, Son, and Holy Spirit just as Jesus mentioned them in Matt. 28:19. They are not three physical persons as the so-called "Trinity" concept envisions them. They are spiritual identities. Are they three-in-one or one-in-three or some other combination? Does is REALLY matter? Will we be damned if we envision them ARRANGED one way and not another way? There's no evidence to that effect in the New Testament. Take comfort in that.

Just believe in the equally truthful CONCEPTS of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as well as "the spirit of..." and don't try to dissect them any further. You'll only become more confused and agitated.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Scriptures' References to "the Holy Spirit OF...": Concept or Truth?

April 16 2013, 9:16 PM 

Confused? No!!!

Agitated? Yes! By you repeatedly "advising" that conceptual differences {e.g., either that the world is flat or that the world is a sphere) are true and acceptable as truth.

Agitated? Yes! Again. By you NOT presenting your own argument or reason for believing that "the holy spirit" in Matt. 28:19 is NOT "the holy spirit OF GOD" (Eph. 4:20).

QUESTION for B:


Do you believe that:
"the holy spirit" in Matt. 28:19
-------------- is NOT -------------
"the holy spirit OF GOD" in Eph. 4:20?

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.244.183

Re: Scriptures' References to "the Holy Spirit OF...": Concept or Truth?

April 16 2013, 9:54 PM 

As I cautioned before, don't try to dissect Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As Jesus mentioned them, just believe that they ARE.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Scriptures' References to "the Holy Spirit OF...": Concept or Truth?

April 16 2013, 11:52 PM 

I do not need your caution. It is a simple question about "the holy spirit" itself [sorry, you'd say "himself"].

I'm not dissecting a frog, B.

The question requires an answer: (a) yes; (b) no; (c) I do not know; (d) not sure; (e) "you really got me"; (f) let me research first; (g) I'll study the Bible more.

QUESTION for B:


Do you believe that:
"the holy spirit" in Matt. 28:19
-------------- is NOT -------------
"the holy spirit OF GOD" in Eph. 4:20?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

You're Making Matt. 28:19 and the 70 Passages Controversial

April 16 2013, 1:21 AM 

You said, "BTW, don't think for one minute that because there are some 70 passages about "the spirit of..." then Matt. 28:19 is "outvoted" or is null and void. ALL those passages have EQUAL WEIGHT."

Please don't attempt to prevaricate for me. The only true and accurate statement you made is that: "ALL those passages have EQUAL WEIGHT."

I'll ask you for the last time: "Do you believe that "the holy spirit" in Matt. 28:19 is DIFFERENT FROM "the holy spirit OF GOD" in Eph. 4:30? Be straightforward, please. And don't allow me to think that you do not understand the preposition "OF" that precedes "God."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.167.214

Re: The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit

April 15 2013, 12:16 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.179.81

Re: The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit

April 16 2013, 12:44 PM 

The first recorded use of "trias"

[linked image]

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

The "Grieve Not the _______" Dilemma: Whose Spirit?

April 17 2013, 1:14 AM 

Let's study these passages that make reference to "the holy spirit" [cap or no cap per translator's rule]:

  • "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19 NASB)

    ----------------------------------------

  • "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph. 4:30 KJV)


QUESTION:
Do you believe that:
"the holy Spirit of GOD" in Ephesians 4:30

-------------- is NOT -------------

"the Holy Spirit" in Matthew 28:19?

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.248.140

Re: The "Grieve Not the _______" Dilemma: Whose Spirit?

April 17 2013, 8:18 AM 

This has become a fixation--perhaps an obsession--with you.

Just believe that "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" are just as equally and biblically real and valid as "the spirit of..." Take comfort in them.


=============================

It is a wonderful "obsession" with the truth, B.

I posed earlier (at least twice) the same question to YOU specifically. You could not provide a simple, direct answer: YES or NO. You did not provide a simple, direct answer to this one here, either. It would be wise for you not to embarrass yourself any further.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Apr 17, 2013 11:37 PM


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.247.222

Re: The "Grieve Not the _______" Dilemma: Whose Spirit?

April 18 2013, 3:20 PM 

Even though "the spirit of..." is biblical truth, you have an obsession with the preposition "of" that makes you downplay or even possibly deny the equally biblical truth of "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

I have no problem with "the spirit of..."; nor do I have a problem with "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." You, on the other hand, have a problem accepting the latter.

You may throw caution to the wind, but I still caution you, nonetheless.

 
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Anonymous
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.184.229

Re: The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit

April 17 2013, 1:38 PM 

The Spirit OF God is the BREATH of God: that which is breathed by Spirit MUST BE Spirit.

2Timothy 3:13 But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse,
.....deceiving and being deceived.
2Timothy 3:14 But abide thou in the things
.....which thou hast learned and hast been assured of,
.....knowing of whom thou hast learned them.
2Timothy 3:15 And that from a babe
.....thou hast known the sacred writings
.....which are able to make thee wise unto salvation
.....through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Timothy 3:16 Every scripture inspired [BREATHED] of God is also profitable for teaching,
.....for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
2Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.


That MAKES FOOLS of people who think THEY can furnish more stuff.
The Spirit OF Christ defined the ASSEMBLY both inclusively and exclusively in the prophets. The Kingdom of Christ would have HIM as King and High Priest. He added the Lord's Supper as a way to SHOW FORTH His death: Unless you are foolish that visual aid should silence anything "not written for our learning."

Spiritus
a breathing or gentle blowing of air, a breath, breeze
1. The air: imber et ignis, spiritus et gravis terra
2. The breath of a god, inspiration:
2. Spiritus, personified, a spirit


That further makes people who boast that they have a spirit person inside of their carnal bodies a laughingstock. God has a wonderful sense of humor.

When the Apostles had been WITH Jesus who taught them they were WITH The Spirit of God: Later this Spirit OF God would be IN them because Jesus would return and guide them into ALL truth.

[linked image]

Ephesians 1:16 I Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
Ephesians 1:17
.....That the God
.....of our Lord Jesus Christ,
.....the Father of glory,
.....may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;
.....that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,


Jesus spoke in PARABLES to fool the foolish who had no right to know the mysteries. In John 16 Jesus ends SPEAKING PROVERBS.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.197.184.229 on Apr 17, 2013 1:45 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.184.229

Re: The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit

April 17 2013, 4:50 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.197.184.229

Re: The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit

April 17 2013, 9:17 PM 

The seven SPIRITS which would rest on Jesus as the BRANCH: The Menorah shows how He is the Light of the World.

[linked image]

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.243.51

Re: The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit

April 17 2013, 6:00 PM 

As I review the posts here, do you realize that the only people who have posted anything at all in this thread have been Donnie, Ken, and B? Do you wonder why no one else so far has joined the fray to discuss this subject?

Moreover, despite the many who allegedly read this board, do you wonder why so FEW people dare to post messages anywhere on this board anymore?


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit

April 18 2013, 12:22 AM 

FYI, the readership doubles whenever the subject is about God's (His) own holy spirit. You see, it is man who invented the THIRD PERSON "HOLY SPIRIT" made masculine (from an "it" to a "He" without gender reassignment surgery) and called "GOD." It's your prerogative, of course, to believe the same.

I wouldn't worry about "so FEW people" posting. People are reading and learning. I wouldn't be surprised to know if people feel that the teaching-learning environment is better with fewer circular logic interruptions.

 
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B
(no login)
74.240.208.172

Re: The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit

April 18 2013, 9:41 AM 

It is your prerogative to believe that man "invented" a male-PERSON called "Holy Spirit." On the other hand, Jesus included Holy Spirit with Father and Son; hence FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT. BTW, the Bible refers to God as "he" and Jesus as "he," certainly not "it," so what's there to "invent"? Though not a physical person, the Lord God is still referred to as HE. The same would apply to the Son as well as the Holy Spirit.

It is also natural for you to assume that a large readership means people are "learning." Maybe so, maybe not, but we don't really know one way or another, because virtually no one else posts his/her views here anymore. Some years ago, there were quite a number of people posting with "lively" discussions, some quite heated. That isn't the case now. There must be a reason. Don't you wonder what it is?



++++++++++++++++++++++

B,

You would argue with a signpost, regardless. So, please, I really believe you need a vacation from this website ... very badly. Perhaps, go visit a website that still exists after so many years. I need to spend my very limited time much more wisely than.... Likewise, you may be wasting your own time here.

Thanks!


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Apr 18, 2013 10:13 PM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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