Jack Cottrell NACC is Silence Mean Permission for InstrumentsApril 22 2013 at 11:42 AM
|Ken Sublett (Login Ken.Sublett)|
from IP address 18.104.22.168
Jack Cottrell is one of the major scholars and writers for the NACC. This paper reviews his failure to understand the meaning of CHURCH as A school of Christ. No one who can think of performance preaching, singing or musical performance can have a remote hint of the Freedom FROM religious observations.
You just have to conclude that people do not have any interest in the Word of Christ they use to feed their face.
I have posted all of book 1: it is 1.8mh so don't try this if you have a phone line.
I received my copy of Christianity Restored. Some of it is included in the Christian System. This was in 1835 and repudiates the LU trinitarians and the ANTI-church of Christ teachers. John Mark Hicks etal says that simple-minded Campbell just said "the text means what it says." On the contrary, Christianity Restored quoted by Hicks goes into all of the types and figures of speech used in interpreting the Bible. I have cleaned up the GREW proposal to Campbell about the trinity. Then Alexander replies to Grew. Seed pickers often don't care enough about the TEXT to understand who is saying what. He proves from being a disciple that there is no such thing as a Christian Triad which would be no different than pagan triads.
There is only ONE God the Father meaning the Creator.
There is one MAN Jesus as His specially begotten Son through the virgin birth and became His SPIRITUAL Son when He obeyed the Father at Baptism.
The only thing that exists between the FATHER of a thought and His SON is the Father's breath: that's what spirit means in a figurative sense. If people need another "people" to communicate with their "son" they should not dare compare themselves with God.
A Restoration of the Ancient Order of Things.
I found one Christianity Restored, original $1,000.00. Nope
Found one for $50.00. Did a one click. If I get it I will check it out since John Mark Hicks uses quotes (probably wrong) to accuse Alexander Campbell with being a dupe of Francis Bacon on rationalism. Of course, he never read any original Bacon and I will fry him.
He suggests that WE in the post-modern era no longer try to understand the Bible by "Tham Wurds."
This may be the only hint of the use of Restoration by Alexander. John Calvin beat it to him by several centuries. And surprise to John Mark Hicks and those who now use THEOLOGY and wind up failing to even understand earlier writers, ALL of historic Christianity used the word APOSTOLIC: an Apostolic church is built (educated) on the Prophets and Apostles both inspired by the Spirit OF Christ. Saying that the Apostles never understood what the thologians now understand must be a big fat joke.
Then, I will pass it on.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 22.214.171.124 on May 10, 2013 10:07 PM|
|April 22 2013, 3:03 PM |
I read one place that "Christianity Restored" was the title placed on the work before A. Campbell had labelled the work. That A.C. thought that the title was too presumptious and he wanted to be more modest. This may be a way to say that even as Calvin was not a Calvinist, neither was Campbell a Campbellite.
The fact is that John Mark Hicks or not, should anyone say that they speak by the Spirit, and bring a teaching that is not in the WORDS of the New Covenant, then that teaching is not to be received.
Re: Christianity Restored
|April 22 2013, 5:35 PM |
Hicks is super theologian at Lu and Harding Graduate School. However, it seems that most of the latter day theologians who confess to being "postmodern" qualify for despising the Word AS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING. Inviting delusions their urge is to flood the world with material repudiating anything churches of Christ have ever taught.
The Campbell RESTORATION urge was like that Calvin had begun meaning to REMOVE anything not required for carrying out the teaching role of the church. That would remove all of the layers of Temple Staff and that is as dangerous as trying to remove maybe 3 of the 10 layers of government tasked to do the same thing.
The Spirit of Christ thought that restoration was possible:
Isaiah 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
Isaiah 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.
Isaiah 58:3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
Isaiah 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Isaiah 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Isaiah 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isaiah 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isaiah 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isaiah 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Isaiah 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
Isaiah 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isaiah 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath [REST],
.....from doing thy pleasure on my holy day;
and call the sabbath [PAUO promised by Jesus] a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him,
.....not doing thine own ways,
.....nor finding thine own pleasure,
.....nor speaking thine own words:
Paul thought that was possible when he outlawed SELF-pleasure which included all of the performing arts and crafts and commanded that we speak "that which is WRITTEN for our learning."
I would challenge anyone to find a sermon in these latter days which isn't devoid of all but the ACT of reading verse 3b.
A Restoration of the Ancient Order of Things
|April 22 2013, 6:05 PM |
You could not count all of the theologians and bloggers who have pronounced the RACA word against Churches of Christ about the RESTORATION MOVEMENT. They will all say that the Campbells wanted to restore the Churches named in the New Testament. You can see that is a lie.
This was in 1824. First, you will notice that it was as a BAPTIST that Alexander Campbell proposed that the church be RESTORED to the STANDARDS of the New Testament.
It was Reformed Baptists that which refused to be sucked into the Disciples then or later generally calling themselves Churches of Christ.
The concept of SILENCE was used to remove anything which detracted from the mission and reputation of the church which was about nil on the wild frontier.
The SILENCE of the Stoneites or Christian churches was that THEY can IMPOSE anything they wish if God has not legalistically outlawed it in explicit terms.
They make it clear that when THEY have used their LIBERTY to impose something on you then YOU must Remain in SILENCE or they will blame you for the fuss.
|April 22 2013, 6:36 PM |
Yes, they are very important in Restoration history. Even with baptism for remission.
Why are Churches of Christ Free Will?
|April 22 2013, 10:31 PM |
What kinds of historical or scriptural influences were exerted on Churches of Christ where they strongly tend to be free will rather than more Calvinistic?
Or is Calvinism gaining in popularity?
My understanding of history is that Methodist, Reformed Baptists, and Presbyterians were some roots from which the early pioneers originated.
What is the state of Calvinism today?
If you don't like these questions, is it because we live in a post-doctrinal world?
Re: Why are Churches of Christ Free Will?
|April 22 2013, 10:51 PM |
Good question. I am not certain about that but it probably goes back to the Seceders among the Presbyterians.
Another hint might be that the statement 'Speak where the Bible speaks' seemed to be a revelation to the Campbells and perhaps others. That would not have been strange to the earlier church scholars who defended the Apostolic basis for the church.
Campbell would, I believe, have understood from Calvin that baptism was FOR the remission of sins. However, it was a new light that infants could not be subjects. That is when he ran with the Baptists but he couched his understanding that baptism was for remission or becoming a "naturalized citizen" so that it was a shock when the Baptists finally grasped what he was teaching. He was deliberate because a sudden teaching would have cost him any teaching privileges.
Neo Calvinists (LU I believe) think that Calvinism is the latest truth and is gaining influence. Strange, no Calvinists ever accepts that they might have been randomly chosen to burn in hell. It might give some people comfort without having to be a disciple and "diligently seek him."
Added input would help.
Free Will compatible with Baptism for ROM
|April 22 2013, 11:00 PM |
Since Campbell used the reasonable system for obedience through persuasion and logic of words, this is compatible with free will. The person being in charge.
Jay Smith always said that Churches of Christ "free will" was very compatible with Methodism as well.
Rick Warren, let me thorougly alert the followers or at least those that use his literature, that they are risking giving up "free will." If you're willing to pay that price, then God will certainly allow your "free will" to endorse "predestination." It's your choice.
Rick Warren may not be a 5-point Calvinist, but I don' know how many points he endorses.
Rick Warren likes you money coming into his coffers. It gives his mega-corporation all the cash he needs.
You could of course help Mike Murdock with the $58 dollar seed. You'll get thousands of dollar from that investment, but only loose $58. He's appreciate it. "Blessed are the poor for they shall inherit the earth."
Stone Campbell Hermeneutics John Mark Hicks
|April 24 2013, 7:44 PM |
The Stone Campbell Movement is a false statement. They are built upon the foundation of repudiating the ANTI-instrumental churches of Christ by claiming that Alexander Campbell was deprived because he lived before the POSTMODERN era were we define truth subjectively or based on our feelings and needs for our changed culture which Jesus couldn't have anticipated.
Re: Stone Campbell Hermeneutics John Mark Hicks
|May 10 2013, 10:09 PM |