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FISH POSTS "Ron Boatwright Arcahaic-Pagan-Legalistic PATTERN for Worship

May 15 2013 at 10:17 PM
Ken Sublett  (Login Ken.Sublett)
from IP address

Fish linked to an article on WORSHIP. It is a fact that the ONLY worship concept for the Church of Christ (the Rock) in the wilderness and in numerous PATTERNS in the New Testament and for centuries of church history is to "Give attendance to the public reading of the Word for COMFORT and DOCTRINE. It is a fact known in the Church of the Cave of the Bear Clan that musical "noises" destroys the COMFORT and forces you to worship the performer and their performance. Fish endorses the false claim that:

Jesus says in John 4:23-24, "But the hour is coming, and now is, when true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." It doesnt say we can worship God anyway we want, but we "must worship Him in spirit and in truth". The word "must" makes it absolute. There is no other way we can worship God and be acceptable to Him. The word "must", according to Webster, expresses "an obligation, a requirement, a necessity, a certainty, and something that must be done". When "must" is used it means that it is not optional. Here the word "must" is expressing that in spirit and in truth is the only way to acceptably worship God.

The MUST or LEGAL demand is not that we must WORSHIP but from reading 101a: because God IS Spirit or MIND you must worship IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH. There goes those prepositions again.

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
John 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; PLACE
.....and ye say, that IN JERUSALEM is the PLACE .....where men ought to worship.
John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh,
.....when ye shall neither in this mountain, PLACE
.....nor yet at Jerusalem, PLACE worship the Father.
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is,
.....when the true worshippers shall worship the Father
in spirit PLACE
.....and in truth: thy WORD is truth
.....for the Father SEEKETH such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him
.....must worship him in spirit PLACE and in truth.

Paul COMMANDED this pattern to Timothy and a disciple cannot misunderstand. I can say with certainty that the preacher DOES NOT obey the direct command from the Church in the wilderness onward:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on May 16, 2013 12:13 PM

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Arcahaic-Pagan-Legalistic PATTERN for Worship

May 16 2013, 11:44 AM 

Charles Spurgeon asked: Feeding Sheep or Amusing Goats?

Then again, "He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers .., for the work of the ministry" (Eph. 4:11-12).

Where do entertainers come in?

The Holy Spirit is silent concerning them. Were the prophets persecuted because they amused the people or because they refused? The concert has no martyr roll.

Again, providing amusement is in direct antagonism to the teaching and life of Christ and all his apostles. What was the attitude of the church to the world?

Ye are the salt" (Matt. 5:13), not the sugar candy---something the world will spit out not swallow. Short and sharp was the utterance,

"Let the dead bury their dead" (Matt. 8:22) He was in awful earnestness.

Had Christ introduced more of the bright and pleasant elements into his mission, he would have been more popular when they went back, because of the searching nature of His teaching. I do not hear him say,

"Run after these people Peter and tell them we will have a different style of service tomorrow, something short and attractive with little preaching.

We will have a pleasant evening for the people. Tell them they will be sure to enjoy it. Be quick Peter, we must get the people somehow."

Jesus pitied sinners, sighed and wept over them, but never sought to amuse them.

In vain will the Epistles be searched to find any trace of this gospel of amusement! Their message is,

"Come out, keep out, keep clean out!"

Anything approaching fooling is conspicuous by its absence. They had boundless confidence in the gospel and employed no other weapon.

After Peter and John were locked up for preaching, the church had a prayer meeting but they did not pray,

"Lord grant unto thy servants that by a wise and discriminating use of innocent recreation we may show these people how happy we are."

If they ceased not from preaching Christ, they had not time for arranging entertainments.

Scattered by persecution, they went everywhere preaching the gospel. They turned the world upside down (Acts 17:6). That is the only difference!

Lord, clear the church of all the rot and rubbish the devil has imposed on her, and bring us back to apostolic methods.

Lastly, the mission of amusement fails to effect the end desired. It works havoc among young converts.

Let the careless and scoffers, who thank God because the church met them halfway, speak and testify.

Let the heavy laden who found peace through the concert not keep silent!

Let the drunkard to whom the dramatic entertainment has been God's link in the chain of the conversion, stand up!

There are none to answer.

The mission of amusement produces no converts. The need of the hour for today's ministry is believing scholarship joined with earnest spirituality,

the one springing from the other as fruit from the root. The need is biblical doctrine, so understood and felt, that it sets men on fire.

Spurgeon and others defines the role of the ASSEMBLY as teaching THE WORD. You remember that the Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 58 defined the future REST from rituals

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Ken Sublett
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Re: FISH POSTS "Ron Boatwright Arcahaic-Pagan-Legalistic PATTERN for Worship

May 16 2013, 12:23 PM 

Ron Boatwright The purpose of our worship is to glorify, honor, praise, exalt, and please God. Our worship must show our adoration and loyalty to God for His grace in providing us with the way to escape the bondage of sin, so we can have the salvation He so much wants to give us.

The nature of the worship God demands is the prostration of our souls before Him in humble and contrite submission. James 4:6, 10 tells us, "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up". Our worship to God is a very humble and reverent action.

Romans 15 PROVES that the way to glorify God is to "use one mind and one mouth to speak THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING." The PRAISE concept is defined as IGNORING that direct command and using ORGANUM or a vocal Instrumental Band to sing that which is NOT written by God NOR intended for our LEARNING: A disciple is a LEARNER: they go to A School of Christ to COMMANDED to come OUTSIDE of the massed multitude to REST and LEARN OF ME (says Jesus).

Literal worship means to PROSTRATE OUT LITERAL BODY. We worship IN THE PLACE of the spirit or mind WHEN we prostrate OUR will to that of Christ and BUILD or EDIFY or EDUCATE using the Prophets and Apostles. Loud performance "a cappella" (goat singing) does NOT intend to submit the soul or the mind to the WORD of Christ which is the UNIQUE worship word for a Christian who is a DISCIPLE OF CHRIST: Disciples go to EDUCATIONAL services and not to WORSHIP services performed by hired hands. Romans 12 proves that we must SACRIFICE or "burn up" our bodies so that we do SPIRITUAL worship which is RATIONAL connected ONLY to the Word of Christ: Christ connects teaching that which is written and the Lord's Supper which is to teach or show forth His death: that's the pattern.

Ta^peinos , , on, 2 f persons, humbled, abased in power, pride, etc., Hdt.7.14; su d' oudep t. A.Pr.322, cf. 908; t. parekhein tina X.An.2.5.13; ta toi megista pollakis theos tapein' ethke E.Fr.716, cf. Hec.245, Andr.979; submissive, X.Hier.5.4 (Comp.),

EXAMPLE: Heredotus Hdt.7.14; When the Persians heard that, they rejoiced and made obeisance to him.
But when night came on, the same vision stood again over Xerxes as he slept, and said, Son of Darius, have you then plainly renounced your army's march among the Persians, and made my words of no account, as though you had not heard them? Know for certain that, if you do not lead out your army immediately, this will be the outcome of it: as you became great and mighty in a short time, so in a moment will you be brought low again.


Xen. Anab. 2.5.13 I know that the Mysians are troublesome to you, and I believe that with the force I have I could make them your submissive servants;

ta^pein-o , 3. in moral sense, make lowly, humble, heauton Phld.Vit.p.38 J., Ev.Matt. 23.12, al.:Pass., humble oneself, tn theon exilasanto t tapeinousthai sphodra Men.544, cf. LXX Ge.16.9, Si.18.21, 1 Ep.Pet.5.6.


Genesis 16:7 And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
Genesis 16:8 And he said, Hagar, Sarais maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
Genesis 16:9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Heb 12:25

Whose voice then SHOOK the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet ONCE MORE I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. Heb 12:26

And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the REMOVING of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Heb 12:27

Wherefore we RECEIVING a KINGDOM which cannot be moved, let us have GRACE, whereby we may SERVE God acceptably with REVERENCE and godly fear: Heb 12:28

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:29Godly fear is:

Aidos (g127) ahee-doce'; perh. from 1 (as a neg. particle) and 1492 (through the idea of downcast eyes); bashfulness, i.e. (towards men), modesty or (towards God) awe: - reverence, shamefacedness.

Aidôs, oos, contr. ous, ê (late nom. pl. aidoi Sch.E.Hipp.386), as a moral feeling,

A. reverence, awe, respect for the feeling or opinion of others or for one's own conscience, and so shame, self-respect

2. regard for others, respect, reverence, regard for the helpless, compassion,

In Romans 14 and 15 Paul DEMANDS that the assembly bow to the WEAK and INFIRM by rejecting the SELF PLEASURING pointing to arousal singing which creates PANIC and is not worship.

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Re: FISH POSTS "Ron Boatwright Arcahaic-Pagan-Legalistic PATTERN for Worship

May 16 2013, 2:14 PM 

Mr. Sublett, a previous statement explains "how you do Church". I'll pass.


"This forum is the only School of the Word: It IS an ekklesia or synagogue because it follows the direct command of the Spirit OF Christ from the wilderness onward and never changed."

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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Re: FISH POSTS "Ron Boatwright Arcahaic-Pagan-Legalistic PATTERN for Worship

May 16 2013, 2:34 PM 

True: we post that which has been written for our learning: FISH calls quoted Scripture CRAP.

Ron Boatwright The purpose of our worship is to glorify, honor, praise, exalt, and please God.

A DISCIPLE of Christ in the prophets and apostles and church history before "women and boys rule over you" knows that that is absolutely false because Ron is going to say that you HAVE to worship in HIS institute. The purpose from Exodus 18 and formulated later after the TERMINAL FALL FROM GRACE by musical idolatry at Mount Sinai was to

Ex. 18:19 Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee:
.....Be thou for the people to Godward,
.....that thou mayest bring the causes unto God:
Ex. 18:20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws,
.....and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk,
.....and the work that they must do.

Ex. 18:21 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness;
.....and place such over them, to be
.....rulers of thousands,
.....and rulers of hundreds,
.....rulers of fifties, and
.....rulers of tens:

Ex. 18:24 So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.
Ex. 18:25 And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people,
.....rulers of thousands,
.....rulers of hundreds,
.....rulers of fifties, and
.....rulers of tens.

The Spirit OF Christ defined that AFTER the fall so that the ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTE Pattern for the synagogue or ekklesia was in the words of Jesus and the Campbells:

Worship is READING and MUSING the Word of God.

REVERENCE is not doing gitty-up speaking or SANGING which is IRREVERENCE and a BURNABLE OFFENCE. If you bow to Christ then you obey the PATTERN to build or educate the church on the PROPHETS and APOSTLES. Peter said the same thing and OUTLAWED private interpretation or further expounding especially to collect PAY for what Jesus died to give us FREE of Charge.

The Spirit OF Christ also identifies SPIRIT as WORD.

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Ken Sublett
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Boatwright Singing

May 16 2013, 5:33 PM 

Ron Boatwright teaches and Fish affirms four articles on SINGING as an ACT of worship which must be performed IN THE CHURCH.

First, we have noted that there is no command, example or remote inference of godly people assemblying as a congregation for singing with or without instruments. We have noted that singing as LITURGY was imposed in the year 373 and caused division. This should prove that no one saw singing and especially self-composed text as any part of the Assembly. Justin Martyr speaks of the psalms for as long as time would permit but he does not implicate singing as that HIGH PITCHED falsetto style which was and is an artificial form of speech which lets liars who set their words to melodies deceive the whole world. That is why they are called sorcerers.

The posted "sing" proof text usually prove that the SPEAKING commmand is external and the SINGING is IN the heart which is where Jesus said that God LOOKS for our worship.

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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Re: FISH POSTS "Ron Boatwright Arcahaic-Pagan-Legalistic PATTERN for Worship

May 17 2013, 11:59 AM 

Beginning in the garden of eden the only thing required of mankind was to take care of what God had given them free of any action on their part. True worship would have been to simply honor the Word of God.

In Exodus 18 the only assembly obligation was to be taught the Word of God.

In Exodus 32 the people fell into the musical idolatry of a trinity.

The only worship for the godly people was to assemble on their REST day where "work" even outlaws even "sending out ministerso of God." Giving heed to the Word was the only reason to call people out of their REST (from religion) day.

The Qahal, synagogue, ekklesia or Church of Christ (the Rock) in the wilderness was defined UNIQUELY as a School of the Word of God.

At the same time the worship of the LYING WONDERS was carried out by the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites whose instrumental noise and prophesying was call "soothsaying" which is often enterchangeable with sorcery.

The Pattern of the Christ-ordained synagogue continued as the Greek Ekklesia. He exampled reading the Word as the role of the synagogue-ekklesia.

The Greek Literature defining worship affirms that thesis:

True Worship defined by the Spirit of Christ, the definition in the, early church history and the teachings of the Campbells is defined as:

A Word of Christ Only assembly.

Rhetoric (self-preaching), and any musical or theatrical performances is defined as LYING WONDERS.

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