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Bill
(no login)
74.179.244.63

Re: The Truth

June 23 2013, 12:15 PM 

In previous threads, Concerned Members advised church of Christ members who sympathized with the Change Movement to leave and start their own churches. Now Concerned Members has undergone its own form of "change" by presenting an unconventional idea that mainstream churches of Christ are certain to reject. If more unconventional ideas are forthcoming, perhaps it is time that the forces behind this website take their own advice and start their own church.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.244.63

Re: The Truth

June 23 2013, 12:24 PM 

Call that new church "The Etymological Church of Christ." Hymns would only be spoken there.


===================

How creative!!!


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Jul 2, 2013 1:41 AM


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.210.176

Re: The Truth

July 2 2013, 12:18 PM 

I knew you would like it. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.9.100

Re: The Truth

June 23 2013, 12:39 PM 

Veerrryyy-eee Slow, huh? This IS one of the two Ekklesias or Synagogues OF Christ which POSTS-for your annoyance--Bible and real true history.

It does not play BACKGROUND music to make UNDERSTANDING easier: maybe the sounds in people's head is what prevents hearing.

It does not MAKE SERMONS which violates all of the direct commands and proves that the preacher WILL NOT let the elders teach that which has been taught.

It does not compose it's OWN songs out of its own SPIRIT (1 Corinthians 14) Because God says that the imagination of man is only EVIL CONTINUALLY: so why do you keep investing with the Made-offs? Jesus said that the sons of the DEVIL speak on their own.

It does not observe the LAW of tithing or the EXTORTING laying by in store as ACTS. Once only, Paul did NOT command a offering of the first-days day wage LAID BY HIMSELF, and ONLY for the destitute.

It has NO staff infection: we PAY in order to teach "that which is written" to upset you in your dotage. That is what Paul COMMANDED: even though a person who establishes his OWN orchard has a right to live off the orchard, Paul said that you CANNOT accept a WAGE for teaching the Gospel: besides, Christ in Isaiah outlawed that as well as SPEAKING your own words. IT DIDN'T EVEN need to be said by the Spirit OF Christ "not to sing your own songs."

It has no STANDING ARMY (David's sin without redemption) to BURDEN your tight budget and your spiritual fragility by making certain that you have a PROGRAM when you get off work crying TGIF. Programs claiming Spiritual Formation is BLASPHEMY.

Like the ekklesia and synagogue, we assemble, DISCUSS, disassemble and leave a CONTACT elder until the next appointed hour, same time, same place on the NEXT LORD'S DAY.

Alexander Campbell defined a CHURCH OF CHRIST

The presiding elder then gives out a psalm or hymn, in singing which the brethren join, standing.

A chapter is read from the Old Testament, and a corresponding one from the New. (We go regularly through the Old Testament in the morning, and through the New in the afternoon.)

One of the brethren is called on by the elder to engage in prayer, and at the conclusion of this and all our prayers the church says Amen. Praise.

The elder, after a few observations on the Lord's supper, gives thanks, or calls on one of the brethren to do so. The bread is then handed about by the deacons. In like manner the cup, after giving thanks. Praise. The contribution is made for the POOR, and once a month an extraordinary collection for promoting the spread of the gospel. The brethren are invited to teach and to admonish each other. Praise. Prayer by one of the brethren. The church is called on to salute each other with a holy kiss, and separates.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.9.100

Re: The Truth

June 23 2013, 12:56 PM 

A scrambled "I wanna make love with god" is NOT a hymn. If you want to make your own hymn it will define in exact terms exactly what God has done and Scripture is the only resource. The LOGOS word EXCLUDES pathos or "what happened to me as the evidence of a direct operation."

Here is a Babylonian Hymn and will understanding that wanting to lap dance with God is terminal disrespect:

http://www.piney.com/BabNinkasi.html

This would work for those who think that FRUIT of the VINE means fruit of the VAT during the Lord's Supper while humming,singing, whistling or clapping (that's a disease, you know]):

Borne of the flowing water (...)
Tenderly cared for by the Ninhursag,
Borne of the flowing water (...)
Tenderly cared for by the Ninhursag,

Having founded your town by the sacred lake,
She finished its great walls for you,
Ninkasi, having founded your town by the sacred lake,
She finished its great walls for you

Your father is Enki, Lord Nidimmud,
Your mother is Ninti, the queen of the sacred lake,
Ninkasi, Your father is Enki, Lord Nidimmud,
Your mother is Ninti, the queen of the sacred lake.

You are the one who handles the dough,
[and] with a big shovel,
Mixing in a pit, the bappir with sweet aromatics,
Ninkasi, You are the one who handles
the dough, [and] with a big shovel,
Mixing in a pit, the bappir with [date]-honey.

You are the one who bakes the bappir
in the big oven,
Puts in order the piles of hulled grains,
Ninkasi, you are the one who bakes
the bappir in the big oven,
Puts in order the piles of hulled grains,

You are the one who waters the malt
set on the ground,
The noble dogs keep away even the potentates,
Ninkasi, you are the one who waters the malt
set on the ground,
The noble dogs keep away even the potentates.

You are the one who soaks the malt in a jar
The waves rise, the waves fall.
Ninkasi, you are the one who soaks
the malt in a jar
The waves rise, the waves fall.

You are the one who spreads the cooked
mash on large reed mats,
Coolness overcomes.
Ninkasi, you are the one who spreads
the cooked mash on large reed mats,
Coolness overcomes.

You are the one who holds with both hands
the great sweet wort,
Brewing [it] with honey and wine
(You the sweet wort to the vessel)
Ninkasi, (...)
(You the sweet wort to the vessel)

The filtering vat, which makes
a pleasant sound,
You place appropriately on [top of]
a large collector vat.
Ninkasi, the filtering vat,
which makes a pleasant sound,
You place appropriately on [top of]
a large collector vat.

When you pour out the filtered beer
of the collector vat,
It is [like] the onrush of
Tigris and Euphrates.
Ninkasi, you are the one who pours out the
filtered beer of the collector vat,
It is [like] the onrush of
Tigris and Euphrates.


When SINGING as an ACT was imposed about the year 373 the songs were true Bible Stories but even that SPLIT the east and west churches.

I don't care what you do just as long as you don't say that it is a COMMANDED ACT OF WORSHIP which when violated is a sin. Singing in the END-TIME almost total fall is sold as a LEGALISTIC ACT which must be performed that is why the NOT SO APT elders don't really care about the CONTENT as long as it does not VIOLATE Scripture.


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.244.63

Re: The Truth

June 23 2013, 12:58 PM 

So, start your own church, call it "The Etymological Church of Christ," and have the congregation speak the hymns without ever singing them. In that way, you and what few people you may have converted to your unconventional "speak-only doctrine" will be happy as an isolated congregation, whereas the hundreds of other mainstream church of Christ congregations that sing hymns will be happy with their doctrine.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Start your own ex-CM site?

June 23 2013, 5:36 PM 

Bill,

Calm down!!! You have drawn conclusions to the extreme -- to the point of declaring yourself as an ex-ConcernedMembers, pitting CM against the mainstream church of Christ, etc. You know there is an ex-ChurchofChrist website. Go ahead and start an ex-ConcernedMembers site of your own.

We've been very patient and tolerant with you, Bill. We've posted many of your messages with contents worse than those with "expletive deleted" elements, so far as CM is concerned. True that we've not published your posts on occasion. And there are still posts to be approved -- pending our review (and this was never the case before).

You distort what CM stands for when you begin using words and expressions such as: "all" or "only" or "speak only" or "sinful" [without qualification], etc. You're no different now from instrumental music supporters who'd ask you: "Where does it say 'vocal music ONLY?" Or, where does it say: "Thou shalt not use instrumental music in worship?"

If you've really paid attention, CM is so much closer to what the New Testament teaches and to what the Restoration Movement represented in its objective to restore New Testament Christianity ... than you think.

With regard to hymning in the assembly: I am very selective (these days) of the hymns that I SING. No, I would not sing a "Contemporary Christian Music" that contains:

"Oh, I love you, my darling Jesus."

"How beautiful, how beautiful, how beautiful is the body of Christ...."

"Now oh Lord, I feel your warm embrace..."

"I was lost but now I'm found. And I reach out and I touch you and I know I need you to reach out and to touch me and I know I know I need your touch, your touch, your touch."


That Christ and the apostles "hymned" [a psalm or hallel], it is still very significant to learn about the etymology of the verb "hymned." When you've gained that knowledge, it would be easier to understand that the lyrics in those CCM pieces have no place in "LETTING THE WORD OF CHRIST DWELL IN YOU RICHLY" -- WHICH IS THE COMMAND (and "vocal music" is never the command).

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.15.195

Re: Start your own ex-CM site?

June 23 2013, 5:50 PM 

Donnie, even if CM continues with its unconventional idea about hymns until Doom's Day, churches of Christ around the planet will still be singing hymns and loving every minute of it. I only suggested that you and Ken start your own "speak-only" church, because frankly, I just don't see other church of Christ congregations rushing to drop hymn-singing and adopt hymn-speaking purely on what you guys publish here.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.7.41

Re: Start your own ex-CM site?

June 23 2013, 8:54 PM 

History knows of NO group of MALES who ever got so aroused that they ELEVATED their voices in a screechy-screamy sense claiming to worship a god. Before the time of David they ALWAYS let the women to that: the world's OLDEST profession. The "Familiar Spirit" of the Witch of Endor was a dry, empty, hollow-sounding wineskin. By singing into it as an echo chamber she performed as a ventriloquist and claimed that she got her message from the gods of the netherword. The same meaning speaks of the Lyre or the sounding brass of 1 Corinthians 13: again the WIMMEN ONLY.

Nimrod, a hunter AFTER GOD, led about a female musical worship team claiming to REGENERATE MORALS through external means: modern wannabes hire SPIRITUAL FORMATION MINISTERS.

http://www.piney.com/MuBabylo.html

I keep saying WHY is it that people refuse to confess to the truth. But, then I remember strong delusions so that people MUST believe their own lie to drive them into Lying Wonders or musical performances.

Here we prove (in vain) that surviving your own autopsy is not always a good thing:

Ephesians 5:19 SPEAKING to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,

B and all of the "progressives" love to mock people who claim that Paul commanded us to SPEAK psalms (narrate says Campbell), hymns (prayers) and spiritual songs (inspired).

Paul said SPEAK Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs and somebody gotta START a new church which can read the word SPEAK to mean SPEAK as in the word SPEAK. Just watch it, B and all of the progressives are going to say: "How stupid could those legalistic, sectarian, hypocritic, fire bombers come up with the ida that we should SPEAK Psalms, hymnsl and spiritual songs.

I do not know of nor ever heard of a preacher of any institute who can understand "SPEAK to your selves in Psalms, Hymns and spiritual songs." I do not know of nor ever heard of a preacher in my lifetime who can even POSSIBLY read that passage to say anything other than:

"SING congregationally using the blue book (not the gold book), MAKING HARMONY out loud and LOUDER. Not to worry: Osha is afraid of religionisn (for now)

SPEAK is the word:

G2980 lale lal-eh'-o A prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, that is, utter words:preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. Compare G3004 .
ask, bid, boast, call, describe, give out, name, put forth, say (-ing, on), shew, speak, tell, utter


BUT, none of them there words say THOU SHALT NOT INTERPRET THAT TO INCLUDE SANGING AND TWANGING. That's true but God seemed to think that HIS creatures could understand that UP excludes the word DOWN.

SPEAK is the OPPOSITE of sing by actual definition and even SPELLING. S.P.E.A.K is not S.I.N.G and "melody" is not related to "harmony."

How utterly STUPID says B, everyone knows that you don't SPEAK when you want to "teach that which is WRITTEN for our learning." Paul said SPEAK but the progressives NEED to teach that Paul was wrong: so WE gonna just be the "Apostle" for our church and translate SPEAK to mean MAKE MUSIC.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.14.129

Re: Start your own ex-CM site?

June 23 2013, 9:06 PM 

Donnie, regardless of what you and Ken say here, [. . . I] will continue to interpret "singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord" from Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 as a literal command to SING praises to God with the voice while the heart makes melody or rejoices. There's certainly nothing wrong with "speaking" hymns if that's one's preference, but [I ...] infer that you and Ken believe the one correct way to render hymns is to speak them rather than sing them, based on the etymology of "hymned." As we've also noted, a few other responders have inferred the same thing, because they disagree with you as I do.

You've correctly noted that the lyrics of modern CCM songs often are not suitable for "LETTING THE WORD OF CHRIST DWELL IN YOU RICHLY." No argument there. But since you say that "vocal music is never the command," then we must infer that you see "singing and making melody..." as a metaphor instead of a command; hence, your purported position that we are to speak hymns rather than sing them. If you reject "singing and making melody..." as a command, then you deviate considerably from the literal interpretation that [...] congregations maintain.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Jul 13, 2013 3:07 AM


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Start your own ex-CM site?

July 13 2013, 3:33 AM 

There is a place for reciting or verbally communicating TO ONE ANOTHER IN psalms, hymns and spiritual songs -- there is teaching-learning in the process.

Singing TO ONE ANOTHER?????? I can't imagine adult Christians doing that in the assembly

Don't be discouraged. There is a place for singing and making melody. In your hearts ... to the Lord.

This is how Bill would like to do a role reversal

------------- F R O M (what the Scripture says) ----------------
1.a -- SPEAKING TO ONE ANOTHER IN ...SONGS
1.b -- SINGING AND MAKING MELODY ... IN YOUR HEARTS ... TO THE LORD

--------------T O (what Bill would like to do) -----------------
2.a -- SINGING TO ONE ANOTHER
2.b -- SPEAKING ... IN YOUR HEARTS ... TO THE LORD

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.4.101

Re: Apollyon: Jim Hackney Heritage Church of Christ

June 23 2013, 4:45 PM 

Yes, I know: the prophecy of Christ in Isaiah 3 about the WOMEN and BOYS (effeminate) ruling over you fell like the prophetic STAR from heaven unleashing the MUSES of Apollo, Abaddon. That was the NACC attack which picked off a few sissy-simple-dupes and even locally they gave the song books to a denominational group and BOUGHT the Howard song book which is aka VINEYARD which promotes a sexual-like climax with a MASCULINE God. You COULD hear the Testesterone being sucked out of their bodies and their bodies out of that church.

The late Dr. Roger Chambers warned as did family members of the sudden fall within Christian Churches.

http://www.piney.com/ChRogerChambers.html

He notes,as we have, that Leroy Garret who invented the lie of The Stone-Campbell Movement, is largely responsible for cuckolding the Progressive Preachers who are terminally ignorant of the Word or are terminally evil as they PATTERN after the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned LEVITES who were SORCERERS playing INSTRUMENTS AND SINGING to endure their cursed abandonment to Worship the Starry Host: Apollo from the beginning.

Organs are gone: you may have to learn how to fiddle around with a guitar and WHINE

http://www.piney.com/Plea.Garrett.Chambers.html

Since singing as an ACT was imposed about the year 373 it is ok to sing hymns but it is a lie to say that it is First Century or New Testament Christianity which teaches what Jesus commanded to be TAUGHT: they totally flew right past that.

I think that even the most "conservatives" see singing as LEGALISTIC PERFORMANCE since the NACC attack redefined CHURCH from "school of Christ" to "Worship only" meaning that they think that what THEY perform gives attention to Christ and HIS Word: they boast that they can piddle around in the great pool called "The Silent Lapse of God in Christ": of the self-speakers, singers and instrument players Christ had John record that they are SORCERERS "under" the Babylon mother of harlots and the pool is the Lake of Fire.

[linked image]

If they didn't do that today then they ARE NOT and CAN NOT be A Church of Christ.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.4.101

Re: Apollyon: Jim Hackney Heritage Church of Christ

June 23 2013, 5:29 PM 

What happened to the ONLY form of singing the moderns know about oozed out of Salem, Cane Ridge, Voodoo and the Grand Ole Opry. One writer noted that almost all new style of praise singing have adopted a Rock and Role style: In the words of the most ancients, I know that your ticket price was too high and I hope they churned you.

Most Contemporary Christian Music (an oxymoron) breakes the law defined by Paul to the Corinthian women. The music which gets everyone so "high" is acutally erotic music and the exercise of authentia: sexual and murderous authority.

For instance Janelle Foster-Joyce, University of Virginia observes:

[linked image]

That's about the time that the Stone-Campbell Movement attempted to BOND with the Baptists and others. Max Lucado specificially declared himself a Baptist, lied about all of the "music" passages and finally hired him a Baptist Preacher. Observers of the wild frontier have declared that the Baptists are uniquely an American invention with no connection to the Historic Church: that is what has been infused into the once-Christian Bible Colleges confiscate and gone.

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.210.4.101 on Jun 23, 2013 5:34 PM


 
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Anonymous Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Singing is Commanded

June 24 2013, 9:30 AM 

The respected coC writer Gary McCade views church SINGING as being commanded. You may read more here.

http://www.getwellchurchofchrist.org/articles/article0005.html

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.2.83

Re: Singing is Commanded

June 24 2013, 10:44 AM 

First, I am afraid that he is not privy to the original literature which defines the difference between SPEAKING and SINGING.

The Reason that the Spirit OF Christ from the wilderness onward commanded PREACHING by READING the Word of reproof, education, comfort.

The church is not served when people try to rationalize something the preachers KNOW to be the only reason a giddy class tolerates sermons.

Sorry, but he does not INTEND to obey the object and resource.

The command is to use THE WILL OF GOD, The Spirit (Ephesians 5) or(Word John 6:63), The Word of Christ (Col 3:16), that which is written for our learning or Scripture (Romans 15).

"Teaching and Admonishing" has the same meaning as the DIRECT COMMAND from Paul defining the ONLY purpose for dragging people away from better music and more Biblical sermons..

1Timothy 4:11 These things command and teach.
1Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to [public] reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Timothy 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
1Timothy 4:15 Meditate [NOT melos or melody) upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


You don't know of nor heard of a latter day preacher who does not HIDE that from people: that fulfills prophecy LEADING ASTRAY the elect if possible.

[linked image]


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.2.83

Re: Singing is Commanded

June 24 2013, 11:04 AM 

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Jude 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having mens persons in admiration because of advantage.

 
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Anonymous Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Singing is Commanded

June 24 2013, 11:16 AM 

May we adopt and hold David's attitude when it comes to singing, "I will sing to the Lord as long as I live; I will sing praise to my God while I have my being." - Psalm 104:33

"Praise the Lord! For it is good to sing praises to our God; For it is pleasant, and praise is beautiful." - Psalm 147:1



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.2.83

Re: Singing is Commanded

June 24 2013, 12:39 PM 

Yes, this is THE PATTERN for singing Psalms. You may want to (maybe not) read all of Psalm 104 remembering that David sang upon his bed and meditated IN HIS HEART. David would be executed if he took that into a holy place or ever tried to lead "congregational singing in the synagogue."

http://www.piney.com/Psalm.104.html

You will notice that when you praise God you MUST name what God has done and revealed before you were born.

Psa. 104:31 The glory of the LORD shall endure for ever: the LORD shall rejoice in his works.
Psa. 104:32 He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: he toucheth the hills, and they smoke.

Psa. 104:33 I will sing unto the LORD as long as I live: [Sing psallam]
.....I will sing praise TO my God while I have my being.
Psa. 104:34 My meditation
.....[declaration, ponder, converse with oneself, utter, muse, mediate]
.....of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.


Now, isn't that what Bible Reader Paul commanded. Psallo NEVER HAS and NEVER CAN mean to Make Musical Melody. It carries the idea of MELOS in the sense of disecting the WORD limb from limb which means MEDITATION. In Colossians 3:16 it is GRACE in the heart: grace means the Divine Influence of speaking and teaching EXTERNALLY.

But, NEVER as "worship leader" or in the sacrificial slaughter pit.

Psa. 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth,
.....and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.


Your Musicator wants the WICKED to join in with the PRIVATE assembly of DISCIPLES (only) in VIOLATING the example of David who NEVER led the worship but once: you do remember that musicating with the camp-followers caused him to STRIP DOWN NAKED so that he was VILE before his faithful wife but would be HONORED by the girls.

Here is what Calvin allowed to be sung in UNISON originally:

http://www.cgmusic.org/workshop/watts/psalm_104.htm

You can find the simple melody (similar for all of the Psalms online




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.210.2.83 on Jun 24, 2013 12:50 PM


 
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Anonymous Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Singing is Commanded

June 24 2013, 12:58 PM 

Ken, BTW, I respect you also. happy.gif

 
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Anonymous Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Singing is Commanded

June 24 2013, 12:41 PM 

Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. 1 Peter 2:17

1) Honor All People How Christians relate to the world

We are told to honor all people. This means to show proper respect towards our fellow man. We are not to honor a persons wealth or standing. Instead we look past these superficial things and see individuals made in the image of God.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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