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Bill
(no login)
74.179.15.78

Re: Salutation to 1st Peter

August 11 2013, 8:30 PM 

"Sanctification of the Spirit" is an archaic way of saying "sanctification BY the Spirit." Remember that the wording of the KJV in 1611 is often not exactly the same way we would say things today. When Jesus said "Suffer the little children to come unto me," He was not talking about pain and suffering; He was talking about ALLOWING the children; "Allow the little children to come unto me." The same applies to "sanctification of the Spirit." It is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us.

Again, this has nothing to do with whether or not the Holy Spirit is a person.

Again, we MUST NOT conclude anything about personifying or not personifying Holy Spirit based on the apostles' salutations.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Salutation to 1st Peter

August 11 2013, 9:39 PM 

We must not personify "the holy Spirit OF God." Unfortunately, the Trinity Dogma is doing just that by proclaiming that there is a Third Person, "Holy Spirit" [which is not a name], a Divine Being called "God":
  • The salutations do not mention the "Holy Spirit," much less personify. (20 epistles)
  • The Godhead does not include the "Holy Spirit," much less personify. (Col. 2:1-10)
  • Between the Father-the Son relationship and communication, the "Holy Spirit" is missing, much less personified. (Read John's gospel.)
  • The holy Spirit OF the Living God in some 70 O.T. and N.T. references is not identified as a separate Divine Being ... and it is not personified.

Man is redeemed from sins in the blood of the Lamb; at the same time, he is sanctified when his spirit is made holy.

We are "sanctified by God the Father" (Jude 1:1); "sanctified in Christ Jesus" (I Cor. 1:2); "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (Heb. 10:10).

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.13.179

Re: Salutation to 1st Peter

August 13 2013, 9:24 AM 

We are also sanctified BY the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:1-2).

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Salutation to 1st Peter

August 14 2013, 3:41 AM 

The "Holy Spirit" is "the holy Spirit OF God, a.k.a., God's [HIS] Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30 -- "And grieve not the holy Spirit OF God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

There is a colossal difference between:

(1) "the holy Spirit OF God" [in Scripture]
------------- and ---------------
(2) the Holy Spirit IS God [NOT in Scripture]

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Salutation to 1st Peter

August 11 2013, 8:32 PM 

Bill, thanks for getting involved in the real discussion of a specific subject matter.

I was aware of that passage you quoted. I was waiting for someone to really search the Scripture and look for a loophole in the premise. Well, you think you did find it, right?

OK, I Peter 1:1-2. Actually, there are other similar passages, if you dare to search the Scriptures further.

I already mentioned at the outset that grammar in New Testament Greek, when a translation is influenced by preconceived notions, can be deceptive. Capitalization of improper nouns such as "spirit" can be confusing. Here, you made an assumption that "the [S]pirit" refers to the Trinity's "Holy Spirit." Of course, I understand how that you, as a grammar expert, got overly excited when you saw the word "spirit" capitalized as in "Spirit." Your immediate reaction was: it's the "[Trinity's] Holy Spirit." You would have thought more deeply had you seen the expression, "sanctification of the spirit" [lower case].

Who needs sanctification? Is it God's Spirit? I think NOT!!! Or, the spirit of man? I think YES!!!

The spirit of man is "sanctified in Christ Jesus" (I Cor. 1:2); "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Heb. 10:10); sanctified "with his own blood" (Heb. 13:12); etc.

"Sanctification OF God's holy spirit" or reference to the "sanctification of Trinity Creed's 'Holy Spirit'" in the passage is conjecture.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.0.109

Re: Salutation to 1st Peter

August 11 2013, 10:42 PM 

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
.....through sanctification of the spirit, hagiasm pneumatos,
.....unto obedience and
.....sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
.....Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 1 Peter 1:2

Acts 2:38 hagiou pneumatos:

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.249.164

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 11 2013, 10:47 PM 

I don't lose any sleep if people want to personify the Holy Spirit. If they are more comfortable regarding the Holy Spirit as a "person," if they can relate better to the Holy Spirit if they see the latter as a "person," that's fine. I say this, because I do not regard the matter of whether the Holy Spirit is or is not a person as a salvation issue, so it matters not how we perceive the Holy Spirit--person or not. More importantly, I see no evidence in the New Testament that our salvation hangs on whether we perceive the Holy Spirit as a person or not. Trying to conclude that the Holy Spirit is or is not a person based on whether the apostles do or do not mention the Holy Spirit in their salutations also has no firm foundation.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.0.109

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 11 2013, 11:12 PM 

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.210.0.109 on Aug 12, 2013 12:36 PM


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.15.9

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 11 2013, 11:21 PM 

No one's denying the Father or the Son or even the Holy Spirit. It's just that there's no evidence that the New Testament hangs our salvation on whether we perceive the Holy Spirit to be a person or not.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.0.109

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 11 2013, 11:24 PM 

What about being an ANTICHRIST? Is that a Salvation Issue?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.80

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 12 2013, 2:27 AM 

No one's an antichrist here that I know of, for no one is denying the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, perhaps there are some very disturbed people who think that an antichrist is anyone who does not believe exactly as they do.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 13 2013, 1:44 AM 

Very disturbed people? Expecting all to think and believe alike? Wow! How did you come up with that idea? Maybe, you should speak for yourself. happy.gif

Bill, you did not answer the question: "What about being an ANTICHRIST? Is that a Salvation Issue?"

I might add to that: "Is playing musical instruments in the assembly a 'salvation issue'?"

After all, you're the one who brought up the "salvation issue" issue.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.204.104

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 12 2013, 2:49 PM 

I know of no one who is an antichrist on this site. There are, however, rather eccentric and fanatical folks who brand as antichrists all who disagree with them. Let's hope we see none of that kind around here.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 13 2013, 2:04 AM 

Eccentric and fanatical? Careful, Bill.

Let's see. There is a passage: "He is antichrist, that denieth [1] the Father AND [2] the Son." (I John 2:22, KJV)

"Would you like fries with that?"

I meant, "Would you like to add the Trinity's Third Person Holy Spirit to 'the Godhead'?"

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.13.179

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 13 2013, 9:15 AM 

As I said, Donnie, since no one here is denying Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then there aren't any antichrists here that I can see. Now you wouldn't be stretching the Bible a bit and saying there are antichrists here because they disagree with YOU and Ken, now would you? happy.gif

=====================
Let's not make it a habit to add the Trinity's "Third Person" to the Godhead, as well as to the salutations.

In other words, let's leave the Scripture's definition of "the Godhead" and the salutations ALONE -- it's just: (1) God the Father and (2) His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Paul KNEW what he was saying.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Aug 14, 2013 3:51 AM


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.12.154

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 14 2013, 12:24 PM 

Yes, Donnie, sad as it is, we must realize that there are religious eccentrics (colloquially termed nut cases or crackpots) out there, who believe their theological views are the ONLY views that God will accept. They will not abide any other views, no matter how biblical, and clearly imply that anyone with differing views is hell-bound and/or an antichrist. It really would be a blight to this site to have anyone like that posting here.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 14 2013, 10:57 PM 

Bill,

There is a scriptural definition of "antichrist" -- "He is antichrist, that denieth [1] the Father AND the Son" (I John 2:22).

The conjunction "and" is significant in this passage. It joins: (1) the Father and (2) the Son.

The conjunction "and" is significant in "repent and be baptized."

The conjunction "and" is significant in the salutations addressing: (1) God the Father and (2) the Lord Jesus Christ, His Son.

It is risky when you make an assumption that one more item or element will complete a set.

According to I John 2:22, one could be "antichrist" by attempting to include the Trinity's Third Person in the passage.

I don't know about "hell-bound" -- I don't know of any poster among us judging you to be "hell-bound." Maybe, you should report that poster to proper authorities. happy.gif

Let's keep our discussion within the scope of the subject matter. Direct all other remarks (eccentric, crackpot, etc.) to psychology or philosophy.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 11 2013, 11:46 PM 

Bill, that is the unfortunate part of engaging in a Bible discussion of doctrinal differences -- resorting to comments like yours.

My suggestion is for you to not participate and to let the discussion with and among other Bible students continue.

No one is stopping you from believing the Trinity Dogma. No one is stopping you from "worshiping" and "serving" the "Holy Spirit" as your Master and Lord [wonder where that is in Scripture?] and obeying the "His commandments."

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.247.191

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 12 2013, 9:16 AM 

We need not get upset if we find that the New Testament does not explicitly attach a salvation clause to certain topics that we discuss here. Whether the Holy Spriit is or is not a person is one such topic. Nevertheless, by their fervent appeals that everyone should accept and adopt their personal beliefs, some folks climb way out on a limb and imply that eternity will be unpleasant for those who do not comply.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Apostle Paul's Salutations: "Third Person" Holy Spirit Is Missing

August 13 2013, 2:39 AM 

Bill,

CM is a religious discussion forum. We present; we discuss; we agree; we disagree; we study; we learn. Change in viewpoints may happen. There's freedom of expression -- compliance is never a requirement.

Your recent repeated remarks seem to indicate that we are no longer focusing on the initial premise of this thread. However, we have the option to continue a great biblical discussion by using the Scripture as reference as much as possible.

Interestingly, readership doubles or triples when the topic is concerning "God's holy Spirit" [hmm, that expression cannot get any more scriptural than that!!!].

(Another scripture-based expression: "the Spirit of Jesus Christ" [Phil. 1:19].)

Thanks, Bill, for having participated in the discussion.

 
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