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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Jesus is Coming Soon.....

October 19 2013, 1:04 AM 

G.O.A.T.

Greatest of all time?

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.42.38

TIme is Precious

October 17 2013, 9:19 AM 

Donnie, you said to take my time with answering your questions on your tall tale.


Done! Just continue to wait on my response.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Time Is Precious: Don't Delay

October 17 2013, 1:47 PM 

Dave,

I've already posted the following (earlier). Not even a delayed response from you. Or from Bill. Bill, the following is also directed to you. You may need to discuss it with each other first before responding; whatever works for you...

John 1:1 says that it was "the Word" that "was in the beginning." Why change the truth by substituting "Jesus" for "the Word" at this point in time?

John 1:1 says that it was "the Word" that "was made flesh" in the person of Jesus Christ. Why would you even attempt to change the truth into your notion which is: "... and Jesus [in the beginning] became Jesus [2 millenniums ago]"?

Dave, God made Jesus both LORD and CHRIST. Did this occur to "the Word" you CLAIM as Jesus in the beginning with God? Or, did this occur during the lifetime of Christ here on earth?

Dave, was Jesus already the Son of God in the beginning long before God sent His only begotten Son two millenniums ago?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Jesus is Coming Soon.....

October 17 2013, 10:40 AM 

They mock Scripture: that is the mark of those who have no need to know or understand parables REQUIRED to give the finite a tiny image of the INFINITE. If God is the Father of the Son and generated the Son then the Son is not the Almighty any more than the other figurative (spiritual) images. They have no need to know and are forced to mock.

Psalms 104:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
Psalms 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Psalms 104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Psalms 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Psalms 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
Psalms 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
Psalms 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth

October 16 2013, 6:33 PM 

In the beginning it was God's BREATH which became WORDS. Jesus said that it was God's breath (spirit) which became Words in His lips. The WORD of God speaks as a result of BREATH: that is never a PEOPLE.

[linked image]

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Can You Hear Me Now?

October 17 2013, 2:50 PM 

Donnie,
Are you now a believer in the Trinity, more than one? The Trinity, which Catholics, have long espoused? Maybe you are so put out with Madison, that you have embraced their philosophy?

You are now speaking out that Jesus, the Son of God, is separate from God?
Remember me quoting this Scripture?
Matthew 24
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif
It just takes some people longer to grasp it.

Ken, speaking of WORDS instead of the WORD....look at verse 35 above. It speaks of WORDS vs the WORD. You are just getting confused. Nothing new.
Ken, we must remember that YOU are the one who keeps speaking from Greek mythology and man's recorded history and folklore. Where do you see anywhere in Scriptures someone speaking of the pan god and his flute? Do you consider this as inspired writings? But you claim others are mocking the Word. Oh thou of forked tongue.

Ken, can you understand this?

Matthew 13
Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

October 17 2013, 7:44 PM 

Dave (and I'm not sure which post you were responding to):

The Catholic Trinity!!! I like that label. It appears that you NOW know the origin of the invented CREED -- the bishops of the Roman [later on to become the Catholic] Church, the Roman Emperor and paganism.

Embracing that philosophy? No, Dave, "BEEN THERE ... DONE THAT." It took me a while to get deprogrammed ("un-brainwashed"). But it's clear to me now, thanks to the Holy Scripture, God's nature is no longer a mere speculation.

In regard to "the Son of God," why are you getting "My Father" and "His Son" confused?


____________________________

Dave,

(I hope you're unlike Bill who ignores questions he is incapable of answering. I've already asked or commented the following numerous times already, so here we go again.)

John 1:1 says that it was "the Word" that "was in the beginning." Why change the truth by substituting "Jesus" for "the Word" at this point in time?

John 1:14 says that it was "the Word" that "was made flesh" in the person of Jesus Christ. Why would you even attempt to change the truth into your notion which is: "... and Jesus [in the beginning] became Jesus [2 millenniums ago]"?

Dave, God made Jesus both LORD and CHRIST. Did this occur to "the Word" you CLAIM as Jesus in the beginning with God? Or, did this occur during the lifetime of Christ here on earth?

Dave, was Jesus already the Son of God in the beginning long before God sent His only begotten Son two millenniums ago?


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Oct 17, 2013 7:56 PM


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.14.3

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

October 17 2013, 8:41 PM 

I believe Jesus when He said in John 6:38, "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." In so saying, Jesus didn't even mention His birth from a woman but rather emphasized that He came to earth from heaven. He originated in heaven, and in the course of time, God sent Him to earth. Jesus' own explanation is simple and wonderful.

If that means Jesus was also the Word in John 1:1-2, then so be it. That's my interpretation. If people can't accept that and instead interpret that Jesus was not the Word, that's their prerogative. All I know and believe is that when Jesus said He came down from heaven, that means Jesus first resided in heaven before being born on earth. Furthermore, I believe that Jesus was originally known as the Word in heaven and took on the earthly name "Jesus" when He became a physical human being. So yes, using Donnie's convenient phrase, "Jesus became Jesus": Jesus the Word became Jesus the man.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

October 17 2013, 9:35 PM 

It means to Bill that "Jesus first RESIDED IN HEAVEN...." Really? Where did that "perception" come from? It must be a delusion. So, when the Bible says that "fire came down from heaven," it means to Bill that fire "first resided in heaven." Right!

By the way, you keep ignoring serious questions, such as the ones above. But I know why. You have no rebuttal.

So, here we go again:

God made Jesus both LORD and CHRIST. Did this occur to "the Word" you CLAIM as Jesus in the beginning with God? Or, did this occur during the lifetime of Christ here on earth?

Was Jesus already the Son of God in the beginning long before God sent His only begotten Son two millenniums ago?

OK, let's just deal with one or two questions at a time -- just for you, Bill.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

October 17 2013, 9:45 PM 

Bill THINKS that God had a BEGINNING!

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.66

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

October 17 2013, 9:53 PM 

No, God and Jesus are both eternal. Most Christians know that. I'm surprised you didn't, Ken.

 
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Gerald
(no login)
68.53.106.241

Only A Few On The Straight And Narrow

October 17 2013, 11:48 PM 

There are so many problems at the Madison Church Of Christ and The Body Of Christ at large including this vital false teaching about The Trinity. You will not find the term Trinity in the Bible. This false belief alone will keep so many out of heaven and it is heartbreaking. It is just like all who believe in instrumental music. Since we must all give an account, we must not go by the opinions of men no matter how popular and widespread it might be. Just because people claiming to be Christians in our own family believe in The Trinity does not make it so. Just because a preacher who is a nice and friendly guy twists a few Scriptures to interpret them to teach The Trinity does not mean we should accept his idea. Jesus said that broad is the way that leads to destruction and many will find it. Those of you participating in this forum who have been advocating this Catholic doctrine must listen to God's Word without preconceived notions or a closed mind and The Spirit "Of God" Will guide you into all truth. The problem with understanding is not the difficulty of God's Word, but is the difficulty of humbling oneself and accepting what Scripture states unequivocally.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.243.37

BCV for It All

October 18 2013, 3:24 AM 

True, the man-made term "Trinity" is not found in the canonical texts. But then, the equally man-made term "Holy Bible" is also not found in the canonical texts, yet we accept that latter term to describe the canonical texts. The absence of a term from the Bible does not preclude its usage in modern English.

Gerald wrote: "This false belief [in the Trinity] alone will keep so many out of heaven and it is heartbreaking."

Are you condemning "Trinity" simply because it originated with Catholics? It sounds like you're saying that we must reject anything and everything the Catholics believe, no matter what, simply because it's a "Catholic belief." On the basis of that argument, you would have to reject Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, because they are all part of Catholic belief. I gather you see the fallacy in that.

If you really believe that subscribing to the Trinity will keep people out of heaven, that's quite judgmental. If you really believe that simply grouping Father, Son, and Holy Spirit collectively as the "Trinity" will keep people out of heaven, that's quite judgmental. If you really believe that those who perceive the Holy Spirit as a divine being or a so-called "third person" will be kept out of heaven, that's quite judgmental. Remember, we must follow what is written in Scripture, not what is absent from Scripture. Although you think those people will be kept out of heaven, does God explicitly SAY those people will be kept out of heaven; that is, they will be damned?

Where is BCV that explictly damns those who call Father, Son, and Holy Spirit the Trinity?

Where is BCV that explictly damns those who perceive the Holy Spirit as both a divine being and as the spirit of God?

Where is BCV that explicitly damns those who perceive the Holy Spirit as a "third person"?

And while we're at it, where is BCV that explicitly damns those who believe Jesus was the Word in the beginning?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: BCV for It All

October 19 2013, 1:52 AM 

Pope+Francis+greeting.jpg + 170px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg.png + rosary_003_side.jpg



AND THESE THREE ARE INSEPARABLE

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: BCV for It All

October 19 2013, 2:08 AM 

WuerlNycz_Sign-of-the-Cross.jpg

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.211.42

Re: BCV for It All

October 19 2013, 2:18 AM 

BCV, Donnie, Focus on BCV. Pictures are not BCV. Keep trying. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: BCV for It All

October 19 2013, 3:54 AM 

Bill,

I've quoted so many passages that you're having a hard time keeping up with them. "A picture is worth a thousand words," it's been said.

"Where is BCV that explictly damns...?" Wow!!!

The Bible says that there is only ONE Spirit -- "the holy spirit" OF the living God.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.246.245

Re: BCV for It All

October 19 2013, 10:12 AM 

Donnie, since Gerald has emphatically stated that people will be damned for believing in the Trinity, then he needs to show where the Scriptures explicitly say that. Neither he nor anyone else has done that yet. If a person says, "You're going to hell" over an issue without the Scriptures explicitly saying so, then that person comes across as a fanatic. An example of
Scriptural damnation is Mark 16:16, which says that those who believe in Jesus and are baptized will be saved; those who do not will be damned.

If there is any damnation to be had in all this, which group of people is more likely to be damned: those who believe in the Trinity, or those who flatly deny that Jesus came down from heaven to do the will of the Father (John 6:38)?

 
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Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Only A Few On The Straight And Narrow

October 18 2013, 1:36 PM 

Welcome Gerald. The discussion for this thread is "Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth". Everyone has an opinion so just jump in when you are comfortable. Do you have a favorite College Football team?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 7 2013, 11:21 AM 

It appears that at times Bill has literal-for-symbolic perception tendencies. For example, "coming down from heaven," to Bill, means "having resided in some abode above" with a postal address.

God Who is IN Heaven SENDS FORTH whatever He sends but that does not mean that the SENT resided in heaven

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord,
wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven,
and consume them, even as Elias did?
Revelation 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angelcome down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.


The MAN Jesus of Nazareth came from Nazareth and many people probably saw him born:

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Acts 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

Maybe they think that Jesus was not smart enough to say "I am Jesus of Heaven."
Acts 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.107.21 on Nov 7, 2013 11:25 AM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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