Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 7 2013, 4:51 PM 

Ken, let us not forget that Jesus had a return address as well.

"When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (John 6:61-62 KJV).

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 7 2013, 8:08 PM 

Donnie will you please give us a dissertation on "interrogative sentences"?

Those without a need to know, like the Catholics, would believe that Jesus was just another preacher of Khana-Baal where the priest literally ate the sacrificed and roasted victim: human among most tribalists.

The Apostles had a need to know so Jesus asked His question: The Parable was that the WORD gives SPIRIT and LIFE so that we EAT JESUS figuratively rather than in a literal sense.

If you listen to yourself, youll notice that you are not always making statements of facts or ideas

Again, it is pretty easy to accuse Jesus of being an idiot. He could have said in a literal way instead of a parable: "You WILL see JESUS of Nazareth return to the "heaven" where people imagine that the Eternal Spirit of the Universe(s) lives in a literal Time-Space world.

John 6:62KJV What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

However, we follow the KJV Preface and read a variety of translations and we see that this was a hypothetical question and not a statement of fact. The purpose was to disabuse them of the notion of cannablism.

John 6:62NET Then what if you see the Son of Man ascending where he was before?
John 6:62ASV What then if ye should behold the Son of man ascending where he was before?
John 6:62NET What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!

There is also some difference between should and shall.


 
 Respond to this message   
Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 7 2013, 8:38 PM 

Ken, it's just not your style to post in the middle of ~180 post thread. Oh, could be some damage control? happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 7 2013, 9:50 PM 

I hope that everything is not as short as your memory!!! I EXPLAINED to you that Jesus did not say "I AM GOING INTO HEAVEN" because He clearly said that He came from NAZARETH!!1

The PARABLE is eating FLESH. Jesus asked the question WHAT IF I returned to somewhere: they SAW Him returning to the CLOUDS which are in HEAVEN. Heaven is not PLACE because Jesus would slip into the Spiritual dimension to PREPARE THEM A PLACE. To prepare means that it DID NOT EXIST. The foolish with no need to know are diverted with a 1500 mile square city sitting on top of the earth. Wow! no penthouse for me.

Spiritual discernment means FIGURATIVE DISCERNMENT. If you think of God as a PEOPLE a bit smarter than His "Son" then you do not yet have A holy spirit or A co-perception of the Word.

Paul said of God that "in Him we live, move and have our being." That world is where all of our spirits go until our bodies are resurrected.

 
 Respond to this message   
Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 7 2013, 10:16 PM 

Ken of Seattle or Ken of Hohenwald, we know who you are. Why do you question my manhood? Do you sleep with a pink swastika under your pillow? happy.gif

Stanford is on a roll, I must go!

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 7 2013, 9:51 PM 

Oh, Coach, brother Ken was responding to your post in the middle of a 181-post thread. Just thank him for taking the time to publish your message and respond to it. (You see, Coach, only moderators "know" when a message in the thread has not been published yet.)

 
 Respond to this message   
Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 8 2013, 7:28 AM 

Donnie, I think you are mistaken, Ken was responding to Bill's post. Recently, I have only one post that remains stuck in the hopper. It was about Jason's twitter account and it should be in another thread. The sequence of events in this forum continues to be the 8th wonder of the world! happy.gif

You are correct about Ken, he is a real "sport" to put up with me. Later.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 8 2013, 10:43 PM 

Coach, it was probably "my fault." I started out with a message regarding Bill and his literal interpretation of symbolic elements. For example, "coming down from heaven," to Bill, means "having resided in some abode above" with a postal address. Bill probably paid no attention to [Jesus'] "postal address" comment. But then Ken responded to the "postal address" remark. Then, Coach responded to Ken ... as follows:


Coach, here's the sequence of posting events:

The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

Coach--(November 7 2013, 4:51 PM):
Ken, let us not forget that Jesus had a return address as well...
"What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (John 6:61-62 KJV).

--- Ken--(November 7 2013, 8:08 PM:
--- Donnie will you please give us a dissertation on
--- "interrogative sentences"?

--- --- Coach--(November 7 2013, 8:38 PM):
--- --- Ken, it's just not your style to post in the middle
--- --- of ~180 post thread.
--- --- Oh, could be some damage control? happy.gif

--- --- --- Ken--November 7 2013, 9:50 PM)
--- --- --- I hope that everything is not as short as your memory!!!
--- --- --- I EXPLAINED to you that Jesus did not
--- --- --- say "I AM GOING INTO HEAVEN"
--- --- --- because He clearly said that He came from NAZARETH!!1

--- --- --- --- Coach--November 7 2013, 10:16 PM):
--- --- --- --- Ken of Seattle or Ken of Hohenwald, we know who you are.
--- --- --- --- Why do you question my manhood?

--- --- --- Donnie--(November 7 2013, 9:51 PM:
--- --- --- Oh, Coach, brother Ken was responding to your post in
--- --- --- the middle of a 181-post thread.

--- --- --- --- Coach--(November 8 2013, 7:28 AM):
--- --- --- --- Donnie, I think you are mistaken, Ken was responding to
--- --- --- --- Bill's post.


OK, Coach, I carefully measured the indentions of the posts with an invisible ruler. In that set of responses, it was just among the three of us -- Coach, Ken and Donnie.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.243.62

Re: The Catholic [and Pagan] Trinity

November 7 2013, 9:33 PM 

In John 6:48-59, Jesus is foreshadowing the Lord's Supper, yet many who listen cannot understand the metaphorical concept of eating His flesh and drinking His blood to have eternal life.

Jesus asks if His discourse is offensive (verse 61).

Then Jesus, foreshadowing His ascension back into heaven, poses this scenario: "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (verse 62).

Jesus implies the following: Will you also be offended and in denial when you see Me ascend up to heaven where I was BEFORE I came down from heaven to be born on earth?

In verse 62, the word "BEFORE" means "previously, earlier than, in time preceding." Clearly, the only place Jesus could have been BEFORE He came to earth was in heaven with God. Jesus came down from heaven and He returned to heaven upon His ascension.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth

October 18 2013, 11:30 AM 

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.107.21 on Oct 18, 2013 11:48 AM


 
 Respond to this message   
Dave
(no login)
130.127.42.38

One, Two, or Three?

October 18 2013, 11:38 AM 

Donnie,
One thing I can readily admit.....I don't know it all. Can you do the same? There are mysteries that you and I will never understand because of God's Wisdom.

You said that "John 1:14 says that it was "the Word" that "was made flesh" in the person of Jesus Christ. Why would you even attempt to change the truth into your notion which is: "... and Jesus [in the beginning] became Jesus [2 millenniums ago]"?

Jesus didn't have a name in the beginning, but by you own assertion and John 1:14 the same Word in the beginning, verses 2 and 3, became Jesus in the flesh. If you care to make that argument of Jesus becoming Jesus, so be it. You can't separate the two, because it isn't possible.

Donnie, you also asked "Dave, was Jesus already the Son of God in the beginning long before God sent His only begotten Son two millenniums ago?"

Why would that matter? I ask that and follow with this question....why have you changed your mind on the subject of the Trinity? You used to believe that believe in the One God, but now you seem to favor Jesus and God as being two instead of one.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: One, Two, or Three?

October 19 2013, 4:22 AM 

Dave,

At least you're trying to respond to specific questions -- that is good.

Your first statement is common knowledge, really. "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men ... the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God."

(1) Substituting "Jesus" for "the Word" and "the Word" made flesh is essentially equivalent to saying that "Jesus became [or was made] Jesus." When "A" became "B" ... it wasn't "B" to begin with. We should leave John 1:1 as is.

"The Word" = "LOGOS" [which can be said, spoken, articulated]
"Jesus" ==== "SAVIOR" [a name; the one whom God made LORD and CHRIST]

(2) Yes, it would matter. The chronology of events is significant in determining existence or non-existence. (Don't try to sound like Hilary Clinton regarding the Benghazi-gate -- "What difference does it make...?"

(3) We should not confuse "unity" with "Jesus and God being one God." Consider the conjunction "and":

--------- I and my Father are one
--------- Salutation: from God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ
--------- The Father loveth the Son
--------- Jesus said: ... worship the Father
--------- My Father worketh hitherto, and I work
--------- The Father sent me

(4) BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. I had blindly followed the Trinity Creed. The Scripture has taught me differently.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth

October 18 2013, 12:02 PM 

LOGOS is that which one SPEAKS. God SPOKE and it was DONE: all by Himself, no help needed.

If you say that Jesus WAS what God SPOKE then you are saying that God is NOT the Almighty but is REQUIRED to have other "family" members do what He is UNABLE to do by himself.

That is why if you deny that there is ONE GOD [Theos] and one Lord [Kurios] who was MADE TO BE kurios by the one theos using remedial reading grade 3, you are an ANTI-Christ.

That is probably the reason for PROCURING simple-speak, buffoon, jester, happy-clappy preachers and singers and musicians SELLING their body parts since Christ OUTLAWED speaking your own words. Cave-Man-101 knew that instrumental sounds spooked the nature of people making it easier to pick their pockets: You know, the Law of Laying by the Preacher in store. If you claim that Christ DID NOT pay it all and gave elders the right to hint that they should give tithes and offerings with no right to any say once it is in "god's" coffers, they you are a liar and a thief and it is MANDITORY that you never, ever again become UNdeluded.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.244.51

God SPOKE

October 18 2013, 1:08 PM 

Yep, God SPOKE, and Jesus as the Word, in obedience to God, left heaven and was born as a human being on earth. Jesus as the Word was made flesh on earth. Jesus came down from heaven. Still simple.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth

October 18 2013, 6:07 PM 

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded,
.....and I saw a STAR fall from heaven unto the earth:
.....and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit;
.....and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace;
.....and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke LOCUSTS (muses] upon the earth:
.....and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

 
 Respond to this message   
Dave
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Again.....and Again....and Again

October 18 2013, 4:24 PM 

Donnie,
When I see you posting that "It means to Bill that "Jesus first RESIDED IN HEAVEN...." Really? Where did that "perception" come from? It must be a delusion. So, when the Bible says that "fire came down from heaven," it means to Bill that fire "first resided in heaven." Right!," .....I realize real quick how much you are into winning an argument instead of following the Truth.


How do you connect the two.....Jesus first resided in heaven ("For I came down from heaven") and "fire came down from heaven" fire first resided in heave)?
When I see your illogical conclusion and clamor where you insinuate such it just shows how you aren't into presenting or trying to learn the Truth.

Those two aren't related....period. What is even worse is the fact that you KNEW that before you posted it. It shows that you don't have an argument at all.

You do that often enough.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Again.....and Again....and Again

October 19 2013, 4:35 AM 

Dave,

I was just following Bill's logic. To Bill regardless of who or what "came down from heaven" means that "heaven" is automatically the "residence."

That Jesus had first RESIDED IN HEAVEN is a fallacious argument. That's why Bill refuses to answer the following questions:

God made Jesus both LORD and CHRIST. Did this occur to "the Word" you CLAIM as Jesus in the beginning with God? Or, did this occur during the lifetime of Christ here on earth?

Was Jesus already the Son of God in the beginning long before God sent His only begotten Son two millenniums ago?

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Again.....and Again....and Again

October 19 2013, 12:25 PM 

They blaspheme doubly so:

If you say that God says something
When God has not said something
You despise or Blaspheme the Holy Spirit OF Christ.

Secondly: You accuse Christ inspired John of being a fool: that RACA Word.

John saw the Gnosticism that said that Jesus was not human and he said that the WORD (Logos but not Hermes) was with God and WAS God because LOGOS is what God speaks. Therefore Jesus was not a CO-GOD but only the VOICE of God: that means that they claim that the one God is NOT THE ALMIGHTY AFTER ALL. But then they are saying that they are SUPERIOR to Spirit-Guided John because THEY say without blushing (a telling mark of not being able to blush) that "in the begining was JESUS of Nazareth and Jesus of Nazareth WAS GOD."

Caught in a rat trap, Bill says that NO, neither God nor Jesus of Nazareth had a beginning but are eternal. Therefore, nothing that John said is the TRUTH and only HE knows what happened from all eternity.




 
 Respond to this message   
Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Again.....and Again....and Again

October 19 2013, 4:37 PM 

The towel is usually throw in when the blaspheme word is used in desperation. This one was over early in the first round after Bill provided the Scripture. JMHO. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Anonymous
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

There Is Only One God

October 20 2013, 6:18 PM 

Which scripture, Coach?

The arrival of Jesus occurred when He was born two millenniums ago. That occurrence was when "the Word was made flesh" (John 1:1,14).

It was "the Word" that was in the beginning with God ... and was God.

The last expression in the original text in John 1:1 is: "... and God was the Word" (John 1:1)

This is the FALLACY of substituting "Jesus" for "the Word":

1. The Word in the beginning with God was Jesus ------ [wrong];
2. God was the Word ------ [correct, John 1:1);
3. Therefore, God was Jesus ------ [wrong conclusion].

Really? God was Jesus? God was Jesus? Really?

A wrong premise that yields the wrong conclusion!!!!

When God spoke, it was "the Word" that "came down from heaven." There is no controversy in the expression "the Word was made flesh [became Jesus]" and the Word coming down from heaven.

There is no reason to be impatient now about the coming of Jesus to earth as the Son of God." Too late for that. The Word in the beginning became Jesus two millenniums ago. That's already occurred.


 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 13 4 5 6 713 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter